Illinois governor strikes blow for taxapyers...q

[thereisnospoon]

By terminating state public employee union deal with AFSCME..
It's about time. And this from a liberal democrat governor.
Governor cancels deal with AFSCME
Quinn cancels contract with state
This further bolsters the fact that public employee union deals are no longer sustainable.
It is time to rein in these unions and quite possibly get rid of them entirely.
A democrat governor in a heavily liberal state has no doubt sent shock waves through the rest of the big union states where unions have driven up the cost of state and local government.
It is apparent that Governor Quinn is though worrying about whether union members will have his back come next election. He has done the right thing and drawn a line in the sand for all Illinois taxpayers.

 

[JoeB131]

Yup, how dare those state workers keep their middle class lifestyle when the private sector didn't.

I am always amused how conservatives vilify unions.

Let's be honest what happened here. Once upon a time, the private sector had good wages because of unionization or the threat of unionization. The Wealthy paid a healthy share of the taxes, as they should. There were tariffs in place that protected our industries (vital to our national defense and economy) from unfair foreign competition. You had a vibrant middle class, Mom could stay home with the kids while Dad worked, people could enjoy vacations.

Then these idiots went along with the Plutocrat's oky-dokes.

"Give up your unions, and your right to collectively bargain. We’ll recognize you for your hard work and merit. We’ll use nice sounding terms like ‘right to work’ and ‘At Will employment’ to describe this."

"Dooooooy, Oky-doke!" said the middle class.

So they find themselves working harder for less money, and eventually get put out on the street at 50 because the company can always find someone younger who'll work cheaper.

“Give up your Union Medical Plans, and go with these company Medical Plans instead!”

“Dooooy, Oky-doke”

They find themselves paying more every year for plans that cover less and less. HMO stands for Horrible Medical Options. And if they got too sick, they found they were usually the first to be let go during a downsizing.

"Give up your pensions, we'll let you get in on the Wall Street fun with something called a 401K. Then you can borrow against the value of a home you already paid off! Trust us!"

"Dooooy, Oky-Doke"

Now they find themselves with a busted 401K, an underwater mortgage in foreclosure AND no hope of ever actually retiring. Meanwhile the fat cats on Wall Street and the banks got a government bailout they paid for, and paid themselves bonuses out of it.

"Hey, hey, you know, we can get more business opportunities if we sign this free trade bill with third world rat-holes that don't have the safety, environmental and work rules we have."

"Doooooy, Oky-Doke"

And they act all surprise when the manufacturing jobs go to China, and the Customer Service jobs go to India, and when their POS Chinese made computer breaks down, they can call to Pradip… er, “Bobby” about how to fix it, but he doesn't understand English.

"Hey, let's give tax cuts to rich people!"

"Doooy, Oky-Doke!"

Oh, that means we increase taxes on working people. SUCKERS!!!

And of course, if someone might actually figure out that they’ve been had, we can distract them by talking about gay marriage, abortion, guns or some other issue that gets their blood boiling for no good reason.

The ironic thing is that the GOP has engaged in this obscene transfer of wealth, but instead of being angry at the people who perpetrated it, we are angry at the people in the unions who DIDN'T FALL FOR IT.

In short, someone burns down your house, and instead of wanting to punish the arsonist, you want them to burn down your neighbor's house instead.

"DOOOOOY, Oky-doke"

 

[thereisnospoon]

Yup, how dare those state workers keep their middle class lifestyle when the private sector didn't.

I am always amused how conservatives vilify unions.

Let's be honest what happened here. Once upon a time, the private sector had good wages because of unionization or the threat of unionization. The Wealthy paid a healthy share of the taxes, as they should. There were tariffs in place that protected our industries (vital to our national defense and economy) from unfair foreign competition. You had a vibrant middle class, Mom could stay home with the kids while Dad worked, people could enjoy vacations.

Then these idiots went along with the Plutocrat's oky-dokes.

"Give up your unions, and your right to collectively bargain. We’ll recognize you for your hard work and merit. We’ll use nice sounding terms like ‘right to work’ and ‘At Will employment’ to describe this."

"Dooooooy, Oky-doke!" said the middle class.

So they find themselves working harder for less money, and eventually get put out on the street at 50 because the company can always find someone younger who'll work cheaper.

“Give up your Union Medical Plans, and go with these company Medical Plans instead!”

“Dooooy, Oky-doke”

They find themselves paying more every year for plans that cover less and less. HMO stands for Horrible Medical Options. And if they got too sick, they found they were usually the first to be let go during a downsizing.

"Give up your pensions, we'll let you get in on the Wall Street fun with something called a 401K. Then you can borrow against the value of a home you already paid off! Trust us!"

"Dooooy, Oky-Doke"

Now they find themselves with a busted 401K, an underwater mortgage in foreclosure AND no hope of ever actually retiring. Meanwhile the fat cats on Wall Street and the banks got a government bailout they paid for, and paid themselves bonuses out of it.

"Hey, hey, you know, we can get more business opportunities if we sign this free trade bill with third world rat-holes that don't have the safety, environmental and work rules we have."

"Doooooy, Oky-Doke"

And they act all surprise when the manufacturing jobs go to China, and the Customer Service jobs go to India, and when their POS Chinese made computer breaks down, they can call to Pradip… er, “Bobby” about how to fix it, but he doesn't understand English.

"Hey, let's give tax cuts to rich people!"

"Doooy, Oky-Doke!"

Oh, that means we increase taxes on working people. SUCKERS!!!

And of course, if someone might actually figure out that they’ve been had, we can distract them by talking about gay marriage, abortion, guns or some other issue that gets their blood boiling for no good reason.

The ironic thing is that the GOP has engaged in this obscene transfer of wealth, but instead of being angry at the people who perpetrated it, we are angry at the people in the unions who DIDN'T FALL FOR IT.

In short, someone burns down your house, and instead of wanting to punish the arsonist, you want them to burn down your neighbor's house instead.

"DOOOOOY, Oky-doke"

Nice theory. We're middle class. The wife's 410k is fine and the moderately priced home we live in is right side up in the loan..
Wanna know why? We do not live beyond our means. We never needed the permission of a labor collective to branch out into other careers. We can shop and dine where we wish.
Tariffs? Trade wars are stupid. Nobody wins. Oh, remember, free trade was a bi-partisan idea. Look to your federal government to place the blame for that piece of shit.
The housing market? Look no further than your federal government to place blame for policies that created that piece of shit.

Look, the public worker unions were fine until the union leadership went political. They discovered they could enrich themselves under the guise of protecting government employees. The union bosses used their powerful influence to steer legislation that gave huge advatanges to union members. Soon after taxes began to rise at alarming rates.
Why? Because for every favor a politician did for a union, the union promised the politician unwavering support for their next campaign. In some states, property tax rates would rise as much as 20% in a single year. Check nj.com and other sources. It got so bad for example, New Jersey had to rescue taxpayers by enacting a 2% annual tax levy cap. DO you know who screamed the loudest in protest against the skullduggery? The fucking public employee unions. They screamed "what about our raises?!!!!" What about our pensions, they hollered...Raises? Pensions? WHAT?!!! People were being taxed out of their homes because the answer to the question from the politicians to the union bosses was, umm we will make sure you get your people their increases in the next contract, but we have to ask, where do we get the money from to pay for this?...The union bosses advised them to simply raise taxes.
When even the most pro union of politicians saw the mass exodus of wealth from these big union states, NJ for example, they panicked. Uh oh....The residents are pissed!!!!
Instead of tempering their demands, unions pushed for more. The situation came to a head. The greed of unions cooked their goose. And now reality has set it. The gravy train ride is OVER.
This is only the beginning and it is not going to stop. 22 states are right to work. Indiana made 23 this year. There are several states in which public workers may join unions but do not have the right to collectively bargain for wages or benefits. Wisconsin in part joined their ranks this year. Ironically those states have among the lowest property tax rates in the country. And people are flocking to those places.
In California, the voters went the opposite way. They voted themselves a huge tax increase. California has a $16B budget deficit and over $500B in unfunded pension obligations. The state is essentially broke. Four large cities including Bakersfield, Stockton and Fresno have declared bankruptcy.
Face it. It's done. And there is nothing you can do about it. Your(unions) time has passed.
Unions failed to modernize their thinking. Unions continue to operate as though it were 1950. That is their downfall.

 

[JoeB131]

Guy, I think you missed the result of the last election.

Working people won. Plutocrats lost.

Now, yeah, we are going to see some rough times ahead when people have realized how badly the Plutocrats have screwed them in the last 30 years...

But Unions will be stronger at the end of it, not weaker.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Guy, I think you missed the result of the last election.

Working people won. Plutocrats lost.

Now, yeah, we are going to see some rough times ahead when people have realized how badly the Plutocrats have screwed them in the last 30 years...

But Unions will be stronger at the end of it, not weaker.

If that's your final analysis, you've obviously run out of gas. And you've become adept at finding a comfort zone in a very small paradigm.
The reality is, union membership has been declining for 50 years and continues to decline.
It does this because people and business in general see no need for these archaic and restrictive collectives.
Ultimately, my problem with unions is ,where applicable,They demand far above market rate wages which drives up consumer prices for everyone, they can demand where people work, whether or not they are permitted to work, where their members can shop, which products they can or cannot purchase and which political candidates to which they must donate their earnings and vote. That's unAmerican.
Great line in the movie "Wall Street".."Unions? Big pain in the ass"..
Here is just one, no two examples of why unions are generally despised.
In the mid 80's the Taxi Drivers in NYC went on strike because the City would not approve a fare increase. So what did these bozos do? They blocked all of the access roads to JFK Airport terminals. The traffic spilled out onto the Van Wyck Expressway and the Belt Parkway. Right in the middle of rush hour hundreds of thousands of drivers of private vehicles were affected. WHy?....What gives these taxi drivers the right to make their problem everyone else's problem? The answer turned out to be that they didn't. Police were ordered to restore order. The taxi cab drivers were told to clear the area and if they did not they would be ticketed and arrested. Their hack licenses suspended.
Again, New York City. The not infamous Christmas Eve transit strike. First it was illegal due to the "Taylor Laws" which prohibit public worker unions in NYC to stage ANY type of job action. The City warned the union leadership that their upper level people would be jailed and fired if they persisted. The TWU called their bluff. The Head guy for the TWU went to jail and the strike was shut down. The CIty government told all workers that if they did not return to work as scheduled, they would be fired for cause and they would not win a fight for their pensions.
In both instances these unions did not exactly endear themselves to the public. Surprising to some in light that NY is a big union state.
These two incidents left a very bad taste in the mouths of New Yorkers. Not good.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, heaven forbid someone else's livlihoods effect you...

I think you kind of illustrate the disease of the REpublican Party today.

"I've got mine, Fuck You!"

 

[thereisnospoon]

Yes, heaven forbid someone else's livlihoods effect you...

I think you kind of illustrate the disease of the REpublican Party today.

"I've got mine, Fuck You!"

That's exactly the sentiment of most public employees that are in unions. "I got mine, so fuck you..Don't like it, see my union rep."
Oh and you're God Damned right. When the overpaid employee who just happens to work for ME and my fellow taxpayers( hence the term "PUBLIC employee"), is costing ME and my fellow taxpayers more than we think is just, you bet your ass we have a legitimate complaint.
And going on strike and disrupting the lives of those who have nothing to do with the problems of those workers IS inappropriate and will not be tolerated.
They have no right to make their problem, our problem.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Yes, heaven forbid someone else's livlihoods effect you...

I think you kind of illustrate the disease of the REpublican Party today.

"I've got mine, Fuck You!"

BTW, in NYC and Long Island....What Republicans? You could spray a fire hose into an entire city bock and not wet down a republican.
You are such a schmuck.

 

[Mad Scientist]

I think you should wait to see what it gets replaced with.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, heaven forbid someone else's livlihoods effect you...

I think you kind of illustrate the disease of the REpublican Party today.

"I've got mine, Fuck You!"

That's exactly the sentiment of most public employees that are in unions. "I got mine, so fuck you..Don't like it, see my union rep."
Oh and you're God Damned right. When the overpaid employee who just happens to work for ME and my fellow taxpayers( hence the term "PUBLIC employee"), is costing ME and my fellow taxpayers more than we think is just, you bet your ass we have a legitimate complaint.
And going on strike and disrupting the lives of those who have nothing to do with the problems of those workers IS inappropriate and will not be tolerated.
They have no right to make their problem, our problem.

I guess I have a difference of opinion of who I think is "overpaid".

I have no problem that a cop or a fireman or a teacher makes more money than I do. Their jobs are more stressful and demanding than mine are, and they perform an important public service.

I have a bigger problem with CEO who get 7 and 8 figures, and they usually end up running their companies into the ground, like your hero, the guys who ran HOstess and wonder why after getting their 7 figure salaries, the guys who were working the ovens didn't want to take a 20% pay cut.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I think you should wait to see what it gets replaced with.

Hopefully something more equitable to the people who pay the friggin tab.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Yes, heaven forbid someone else's livlihoods effect you...

I think you kind of illustrate the disease of the REpublican Party today.

"I've got mine, Fuck You!"

That's exactly the sentiment of most public employees that are in unions. "I got mine, so fuck you..Don't like it, see my union rep."
Oh and you're God Damned right. When the overpaid employee who just happens to work for ME and my fellow taxpayers( hence the term "PUBLIC employee"), is costing ME and my fellow taxpayers more than we think is just, you bet your ass we have a legitimate complaint.
And going on strike and disrupting the lives of those who have nothing to do with the problems of those workers IS inappropriate and will not be tolerated.
They have no right to make their problem, our problem.

I guess I have a difference of opinion of who I think is "overpaid".

I have no problem that a cop or a fireman or a teacher makes more money than I do. Their jobs are more stressful and demanding than mine are, and they perform an important public service.

I have a bigger problem with CEO who get 7 and 8 figures, and they usually end up running their companies into the ground, like your hero, the guys who ran HOstess and wonder why after getting their 7 figure salaries, the guys who were working the ovens didn't want to take a 20% pay cut.

That CEO or whomever draws his salary from the sale of product. Public employees draw their pay from the tax dollars of property owners. It makes no difference to me who does what in the private sector. If the result of said company reflects in higher prices or poor service, I go elsewhere with my business. I cannot, save selling my house and moving, cannot avoid the taxes used to pay those unionized public workers. So I go after the politicians that allow this crap to go on.

 

[JoeB131]

That CEO or whomever draws his salary from the sale of product. Public employees draw their pay from the tax dollars of property owners. It makes no difference to me who does what in the private sector. If the result of said company reflects in higher prices or poor service, I go elsewhere with my business. I cannot, save selling my house and moving, cannot avoid the taxes used to pay those unionized public workers. So I go after the politicians that allow this crap to go on.

What you do is vote for tools like Walker who work for the Koch brothers.

A Koch Brother, a Teabagger and a Union Guy go into a resturant...

The waiter brings out ten cookies. The Koch brother wolfs down 9 cookies and says to the Teabagger, "Hey, that Union Thug wants your Cookie!"

 

[thereisnospoon]

That CEO or whomever draws his salary from the sale of product. Public employees draw their pay from the tax dollars of property owners. It makes no difference to me who does what in the private sector. If the result of said company reflects in higher prices or poor service, I go elsewhere with my business. I cannot, save selling my house and moving, cannot avoid the taxes used to pay those unionized public workers. So I go after the politicians that allow this crap to go on.

What you do is vote for tools like Walker who work for the Koch brothers.

A Koch Brother, a Teabagger and a Union Guy go into a resturant...

The waiter brings out ten cookies. The Koch brother wolfs down 9 cookies and says to the Teabagger, "Hey, that Union Thug wants your Cookie!"

It's not kids who TP the houses of rich people on Halloween, it's you.
I have not seen as much vitriol versus those who are of means from hundreds of people as I see from you.
You are part of the group that has not only demonized wealth but would if you could, criminalize it.
Look. You are a dinosaur. Your way of thinking is over.
Collectivism in any form does not work.

 

[thereisnospoon]

That CEO or whomever draws his salary from the sale of product. Public employees draw their pay from the tax dollars of property owners. It makes no difference to me who does what in the private sector. If the result of said company reflects in higher prices or poor service, I go elsewhere with my business. I cannot, save selling my house and moving, cannot avoid the taxes used to pay those unionized public workers. So I go after the politicians that allow this crap to go on.

What you do is vote for tools like Walker who work for the Koch brothers.

A Koch Brother, a Teabagger and a Union Guy go into a resturant...

The waiter brings out ten cookies. The Koch brother wolfs down 9 cookies and says to the Teabagger, "Hey, that Union Thug wants your Cookie!"

BTW, your post is non responsive to my post to you. Nice try.

 

[Katzndogz]

Maybe that governor looked at California, at the bankrupt cities and saw the writing on the wall.

 

[WillowTree]

Yup, how dare those state workers keep their middle class lifestyle when the private sector didn't.

I am always amused how conservatives vilify unions.

Let's be honest what happened here. Once upon a time, the private sector had good wages because of unionization or the threat of unionization. The Wealthy paid a healthy share of the taxes, as they should. There were tariffs in place that protected our industries (vital to our national defense and economy) from unfair foreign competition. You had a vibrant middle class, Mom could stay home with the kids while Dad worked, people could enjoy vacations.

Then these idiots went along with the Plutocrat's oky-dokes.

"Give up your unions, and your right to collectively bargain. We’ll recognize you for your hard work and merit. We’ll use nice sounding terms like ‘right to work’ and ‘At Will employment’ to describe this."

"Dooooooy, Oky-doke!" said the middle class.

So they find themselves working harder for less money, and eventually get put out on the street at 50 because the company can always find someone younger who'll work cheaper.

“Give up your Union Medical Plans, and go with these company Medical Plans instead!”

“Dooooy, Oky-doke”

They find themselves paying more every year for plans that cover less and less. HMO stands for Horrible Medical Options. And if they got too sick, they found they were usually the first to be let go during a downsizing.

"Give up your pensions, we'll let you get in on the Wall Street fun with something called a 401K. Then you can borrow against the value of a home you already paid off! Trust us!"

"Dooooy, Oky-Doke"

Now they find themselves with a busted 401K, an underwater mortgage in foreclosure AND no hope of ever actually retiring. Meanwhile the fat cats on Wall Street and the banks got a government bailout they paid for, and paid themselves bonuses out of it.

"Hey, hey, you know, we can get more business opportunities if we sign this free trade bill with third world rat-holes that don't have the safety, environmental and work rules we have."

"Doooooy, Oky-Doke"

And they act all surprise when the manufacturing jobs go to China, and the Customer Service jobs go to India, and when their POS Chinese made computer breaks down, they can call to Pradip… er, “Bobby” about how to fix it, but he doesn't understand English.

"Hey, let's give tax cuts to rich people!"

"Doooy, Oky-Doke!"

Oh, that means we increase taxes on working people. SUCKERS!!!

And of course, if someone might actually figure out that they’ve been had, we can distract them by talking about gay marriage, abortion, guns or some other issue that gets their blood boiling for no good reason.

The ironic thing is that the GOP has engaged in this obscene transfer of wealth, but instead of being angry at the people who perpetrated it, we are angry at the people in the unions who DIDN'T FALL FOR IT.

In short, someone burns down your house, and instead of wanting to punish the arsonist, you want them to burn down your neighbor's house instead.

"DOOOOOY, Oky-doke"

If unions are so fucking good then let them fund themselves and let them stop sucking off the private sector teat.

 

[JoeB131]

It's not kids who TP the houses of rich people on Halloween, it's you.
I have not seen as much vitriol versus those who are of means from hundreds of people as I see from you.
You are part of the group that has not only demonized wealth but would if you could, criminalize it.
Look. You are a dinosaur. Your way of thinking is over.
Collectivism in any form does not work.

THe Plutocrat scum just spent a billion dollars trying to steal back the government and it didn't work....

The sad thing is, they could have been sensible. They could have had fair wages and fair taxation, and they still would have been fine.

As a REPUBLICAN said,

The problem with Capitalism is Capitalists... they are too damned greedy- Herbert Hoover.

Or a Communist -

A Capitalist will sell the Communist the rope that he's hung with. - Vladimir Lenin.

 

[JoeB131]

[q

If unions are so fucking good then let them fund themselves and let them stop sucking off the private sector teat.

Um... the rich don't create wealth.

Consumer activity creates wealth.

A rich guy could open a factory that made shit sandwiches, and no one would buy them. (Well, maybe stupid people in the south for a while.)

You mistake a parasite for a vital organ.

 

[Annie]

Guy, I think you missed the result of the last election.

Working people won. Plutocrats lost.

Now, yeah, we are going to see some rough times ahead when people have realized how badly the Plutocrats have screwed them in the last 30 years...

But Unions will be stronger at the end of it, not weaker.

Not in the states, both legislative and governors.