Illinois concealed carry saves lives....

[2aguy]

Here we have a story of a robbery that was about to go really bad....

Robbers Target Baker in Calumet City One Nearly Ends Up Frosted - Bearing Arms

An armed robber in Illinois thought that his realistic fake gun would be enough to ensure a successful robbery, and it would have been… if the bakery owner they targeted thought that the robber was only interested in cash.

Once the owner thought that his life was in mortal danger however, the baker thought that he’d at least go down fighting… and ruined the robber’s day when he did all the shooting.

“They had the money already, why would they ask us to go to the back? It didn’t seem or feel right,” he said.

The baker then grabbed his own gun and fired, hitting one of the suspects seven times. However, the weapon the baker believed the suspects had was actually a very realistic-looking toy, police said.

“Gotta protect ourselves. I don’t think I broke the law, just defended myself and my employee’s life,” he said. “I don’t feel good about it. Just the way it happened.”

“Bad guys should be aware: Owners have the right to carry on their own property and defend themselves,” said Chief Edward Gilmore, Calumet City police.

Gilmore says the bakery owner did everything right; he has a FOID card, the gun is legal and so were his actions.

“When you feel your life is threatened and you’ve done everything right, you do have the right to protect yourself and that’s what the business owner did,” Gilmore said. “It should very well be a message to criminals.”

The robber’s accomplice abandoned him and fled the scene.

And before you anti gunners say..." It was a fake gun." I say, then why would they insist that the baker go in the back....after they had the money and could have simply run out of the store....they very likely planned on killing the baker....considering they could beat him to death or stab him to death with the knives in the bakery...


So a life saved by the new law in illinois.....

 

[Delta4Embassy]

If being able to carry a weapon for self-defense is the desire, why carry concealed? Isn't open-carry more of a deterrent than uncertainty?

In this particular incident, I'm pretty sure a business owner may carry a weapon at his own place of business as much as he likes.

 

[Saigon]

So a life saved by the new law in illinois.....

Well, let's see how many murders were there in Illinois last year?

We can compre with EU countries of the same size and see which laws work better.....

 

[2aguy]

If being able to carry a weapon for self-defense is the desire, why carry concealed? Isn't open-carry more of a deterrent than uncertainty?

Well, it goes to tactics. If you are open carrying a weapon, then criminals know you are armed and can make plans to deal with you....getting really close before attacking, or in this case, disarming you at gun point because they see the weapon. If you have your pistol concealed, they don't know specifically if you are armed...and it becomes harder to control the situation. Most self defense instructors will tell you to carry concealed...it gives you an edge.

Open carry is good as a political option....as more people see people carrying guns, safely and without going on mass shootings, they become less afraid of the idea....but it leaves you vulnerable to criminals....

 

[Mr. H.]

So a life saved by the new law in illinois.....

Well, let's see how many murders were there in Illinois last year?

We can compre with EU countries of the same size and see which laws work better.....

 

[2aguy]

Well, Saigon...it worked for this baker...or would it have been better if he had been murdered in his store room....is that what you would prefer....

And again....you still haven't addressed this....

8-9,000 gun murders and accidents each year vs. 1.4 million times guns are used to save lives and stop violent crime...

And the violent crime rate is still going down, and the accidental death rate is still going down...as more people own and carry guns....explain that Saigon....try it....


Come on Saigon...which is bigger and better....?

And how can we really compare when at least Britain is lying about their crime stats...? How many other European countries are covering up their crime rates?

 

[2aguy]

Okay Saigon...this time is just for you...the statistics on how many times guns are used to save lives and stop violent crime...keeping in mind, according to the FBI, there are about 8-9,000 gun murders a year....and about 80% of those occur in small, multi block areas in inner city areas of our major cities...usually controlled by democrats...having been controlled by democrats for decades....

again....the bottom column of the chart never wants to post so I give the name of the people or group doing the study, the year of the study and number of times they found guns were used to save lives and stop violent crime each year....

Okay...again...here are all the studies that actually give numbers for guns used to save lives and stop crimes taken from the table I provided from guncite.com...

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717

Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIa 1978...2,141,512

DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Ohio...1982...771,043

Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1991...777,153

Gallup...1993...1,621,377

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,682

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036

And this from the clinton justice department...

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million
(Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text,PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
.(Lawrence Southwick, Jr.,Guns and Justifiable Homicide: Deterrence and Defense-concludes there are at least 400,000 "fewer violent crimes due to civilian self-defense use of guns" and at least "800,000 violent crimes are deterred each year because of gun ownership and use by civilians.")

From Obama's CDC...they spent 10 million dollars in 2013 for this study...

from slate.com an article on CDC obama's era...500-3 million defensive gun uses

Handguns suicides mass shootings deaths and self-defense Findings from a research report on gun violence.

7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.”

--------------------

"Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year."
As shown in the previous footnote, this study did not use a nationally representative population. To correct for this, Just Facts used the following equation:

As Kleck points out in his paper...

All of the eleven surveys yielded results that implied over 700,000 uses per year. None of the surveys implied estimates even remotely like the 65,000 to 82,000 figures derived from the NCVS. To date, there has been no confirmation of even the most approximate sort of the NCVS estimates. Indeed, no survey has ever yielded an estimate which is of the same magnitude as those derived from the NCVS.

So again Saigon....can you answer the question...since none of these studies is lower than about 700,000 times a year....

which is bigger....and how do you justify disarming 1.4 million people who saved lives and stopped violent crime....to try to stop 8-9,000 gun murders a year....?

 

[2aguy]

Saigon...

8-9,000 gun murders and accidental gun deaths a year vs. 1.4 million times that a gun is used by a law abiding, innocent citizen to save lives and stop violent crime....

How do you justify making victims out of those 1.4 million people a year (and more than likely more than this if you look at the studies)?

Which number is bigger 9,000 or 1.4 million?

 

[Mr. H.]

Saigon gone. Sigh.

 

[2aguy]

And anti gunners...look at this story...this baker didn't just start shooting, he didn't spray and pray....he cooperated with the criminals, even though he was armed, gave them the money...and only drew and fired when they were going to move him to a quieter location after they already had his money....

Another sensible, law abiding gun owner who didn't just shoot to kill out of some desire to murder someone.....

He only fired to save his life...no more, no less...

 

[2aguy]

Saigon....as far as Illinois goes....most of the murders happen in Chicago...a city controlled by democrats for decades and almost all the murders with guns in the city happen in a very small area, a small multi block area, while the rest of the city is fairly peaceful.....

the democrats won't spend money on more police or even try to improve education in those neighborhoods....they spend it on rich, white democrats in the better parts of the city...