Illegal Immigration and the Mortgage Meltdown

[Toro]

Poor people, brown people, black people, white trash people, et. al. did not cause the subprime crisis, nor the foreclosure mess, nor the economic meltdown.

You can yack and yack and yack all day to reaffirm your confirmation bias based on your political affiliations or pre-conceived notions, but there is zero, zip, nada empirical evidence to support this view. In fact, the studies have shown exactly the opposite.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/70006-cra-not-to-blame-for-housing-debacle.html

 

[Terral]

Hi Toro:

I do believe that Toro is missing the point . . . again . . .

Poor people, brown people, black people, white trash people, et. al. did not cause the subprime crisis, nor the foreclosure mess, nor the economic meltdown.

We are talking about Illegal Immigration as a contributing factor to the Mortgage/Foreclosure Crisis destroying house prices more and more with every passing day. Obviously there is more than ‘one cause’ (I can think of at least 455 causes) of the current U.S. Economy Implosion taking place right before our eyes, which includes too much Outsourcing (story) and the overuse of 23 Guest Worker Programs dragging 1.5 Million Foreign Nationals into the USA every year to ‘displace’ US workers from JOBS (link = see “It’s the guest workers, stupid&#8221. Millions of our Illegal Aliens are Guest Workers who simply decide to join the millions and millions and millions of Illegal Aliens who came here in the middle of the night through the back door, because nobody is trying to track them down anyway.

You can yack and yack and yack all day to reaffirm your confirmation bias based on your political affiliations or pre-conceived notions, but there is zero, zip, nada empirical evidence to support this view. In fact, the studies have shown exactly the opposite.

When the Gov’t allows too much Outsourcing of JOBS ‘out’ of the country and too many Foreign Nationals ‘into’ the country (legal and illegal), then wages go down for all workers and the “Consumer Base” is destroyed and there are fewer and fewer ‘customers’ to buy your products here at home. Worker ‘displacement’ (Govt website) represents an insidious ‘cycle’ where one Illegal Alien ‘displaces’ one legal U.S. worker who then goes out and ‘displaces’ another legal U.S. worker, so he goes out and ‘displaces’ yet another legal U.S. worker until everyone working with his hands is playing musical chairs and nobody has a job. The reason is that the displacement cycle created by millions and millions and millions of legal and Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals destroys the base of the socioeconomic pyramid to then destroy the service sector jobs in a ‘contracting’ economy that eventually ‘IMPLODES.’

Home prices spiral downward, because too many ‘buyers’ have been displaced from equation and distressed houses begin flooding the market to destroy the value of ‘all’ the houses in the housing market. Then the banks get stuck holding the 'bad paper bag,' because the Government did NOTHING to protect the JOBS of their mortgage customers. Then AIG gets caught holding the bad insurance policies on the bad mortgages and the Govt ends up owning 80 percent of that catastrophe, because We The People are getting robbed twice. Then the Govt must bail the banks out amid catastrophic devaluation of their mortgage-backed security portfolios to stand a band of liars in front of the TV cameras every night to delude you into thinking everything is going to be okay; when in reality the U.S. Economy is going to hell in a hand basket and the retards in the bought-and-paid-for U.S. Congress represent the biggest part of the cotton-picking problem . . .

GL,


Terral

 

[Toro]

Well, that's all well and nice, except that it is flat out wrong.

Consumption never dropped during the housing bubble, and has only declined over the past seven months as the housing market collapsed. So worker displacement is a bogus and an economically unsound argument.

It is also bogus because the employment ratio was near all-time highs until the housing bubble collapsed. Even with all the illegal immigration, the percentage of the population employed was only surpassed during the tech bubble.

The financial crisis has absolutely nothing to do with illegal immigration. It is a theory propagated by the xenophobic and the ignorant.

 

[AssHatZombie]

Well, that's all well and nice, except that it is flat out wrong.

Consumption never dropped during the housing bubble, and has only declined over the past seven months as the housing market collapsed. So worker displacement is a bogus and an economically unsound argument.

It is also bogus because the employment ratio was near all-time highs until the housing bubble collapsed. Even with all the illegal immigration, the percentage of the population employed was only surpassed during the tech bubble.

The financial crisis has absolutely nothing to do with illegal immigration. It is a theory propagated by the xenophobic and the ignorant.

Illegal immigration is an ongoing problem, true. It existed before the meltdown. Immigration drives down wages. Businesses like it because it increases short term profits. But long term, it degrades our entire nation.

 

[Toro]

Illegal immigration is an ongoing problem, true. It existed before the meltdown. Immigration drives down wages. Businesses like it because it increases short term profits. But long term, it degrades our entire nation.

That is another issue altogether. However, immigrants - legal or illegal - had little to do with the housing bubble and collapse.

 

[AssHatZombie]

Illegal immigration is an ongoing problem, true. It existed before the meltdown. Immigration drives down wages. Businesses like it because it increases short term profits. But long term, it degrades our entire nation.

That is another issue altogether. However, immigrants - legal or illegal - had little to do with the housing bubble and collapse.

But it has to do with recovery for the middle class. We don't need immigrants driving wages down. Accept the popular opinion.

 

[Toro]

Illegal immigration is an ongoing problem, true. It existed before the meltdown. Immigration drives down wages. Businesses like it because it increases short term profits. But long term, it degrades our entire nation.

That is another issue altogether. However, immigrants - legal or illegal - had little to do with the housing bubble and collapse.

But it has to do with recovery for the middle class. We don't need immigrants driving wages down. Accept the popular opinion.

The middle class is not being driven down by illegal immigrants.

You may not have noticed, but illegal immigrants are not taking white collar jobs. They're doing all the shitty jobs most Americans don't want. And even if Americans want them, the jobs are for $7 an hour. This has nothing to do with the middle class. It is merely scapegoating.

 

[Terral]

Hi Toro and AssHat:

That is another issue altogether. However, immigrants - legal or illegal - had little to do with the housing bubble and collapse.

But it has to do with recovery for the middle class. We don't need immigrants driving wages down. Accept the popular opinion.

The middle class is not being driven down by illegal immigrants.

Toro is showing everyone why the USA is worthy of being destroyed, because of Loyal Bushie Open Borders Propaganda just like we see in his few words on this important topic. Again, there is no such thing as an ‘illegal immigrant’ anywhere in the USA. The ‘immigrants’ are represented by our fellow Americans who come here THROUGH THE FRONT DOOR. The USA allows (stupidly) more ‘legal’ immigration into the USA every year than ALL OF THE OTHER COUNTRIES ON EARTH COMBINED. The topic of this thread has nothing to do with ‘legal’ immigrants at all, but ILLEGAL Alien Foreign Nationals who violate our Laws and come here in the middle of the night through the BACK DOOR to steal US identities and JOBS. The facts are that twenty five US citizens are killed EVERY DAY by Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals (12 by murder) who are NOT EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE HERE. Illegal Aliens DO drive wages down for US workers!

Seattlepo.com/business

Immigrants drive wages in U.S. lower, study says

By TYCHE HENDRICKS
SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE

The presence of immigrants in the American work force has pushed wages down for U.S.-born workers, particularly those without a high school education, according to a recent study by a Harvard economist. But other analysts say the evidence is not so clear cut.

African American and Hispanic workers have been especially hard hit by competition with immigrant workers, said George Borjas, whose findings were published in a report by the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington, D.C., group that favors stricter limits on immigration.

"There are 16 million foreign-born workers in the United States right now," Borjas said. "What does that do to the marketplace? It creates more competition, particularly for low-skilled workers."

You may not have noticed, but illegal immigrants are not taking white collar jobs.

What kind of nonsense is this?? Those among us ‘with a brain’ understand that a majority of people are ‘two dimensional thinkers’ and some people are fortunate enough to be ‘three dimensional thinkers’ (story), but then some of us are not thinking at all. The downside of allowing millions and millions and millions of Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals to run around loose inside your borders affects every worker within the local job market whether you ever realize that fact or not.

LaywersAndSettlements.com

[FONT=&quot]Hiring Of Illegal Immigrants Brings Down Wages

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]When companies hire large numbers of illegal immigrants, this can have the effect of bringing down wages for employees who are legally authorized to be employed in the country. The practice of knowingly hiring illegal immigrants is also illegal, and when it is done in a systematic, large-scale way, it can also violate the Racketeer Influence and Corrupt Organizations Act, commonly known as RICO.[/FONT]

Two dimensional thinkers look at the surface of the waters and pretend within themselves that everything down to the bottom of the ocean looks the same, when actually another 10,000 U.S. workers/families are going into foreclosure EVERY DAY (link). Another 600,000 U.S. workers are standing in the unemployment line every month (story) and many of those people are white-collar workers ‘displaced’ from JOBS from the ‘customer base’ being destroyed from the local job market. Worker ‘displacement’ (link) represents an insidious repeating cycle that runs from the very foundation of the socioeconomic pyramid (those working with their hands) up the walls and through ALL levels to even the very top, because your ‘customers’ are being systematically ‘displaced’ from the ability to ‘afford’ your professional goods and services. The perfect example of white-collar jobs LOST through local job market ‘displacement’ is seen in General Motors workers laid off from decreasing demand for new cars and trucks.

MichiganMessenger.com

[FONT=&quot]GM doubles its white collar layoffs[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]By Ed Brayton 2/11/09 8:26 AM [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]What a difference a couple of days makes. On Monday, we linked to a Bloomberg News report that GM planned to cut 5,000 salaried positions as part of the restructuring plan it must present to Congress next week. Now the Detroit News reports that the number is double that amount:

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]General Motors Corp. said this morning it will eliminate 10,000 salaried workers worldwide this year to cut costs, adapt to a sales slump and comply with requirements of the $13.4 billion federal loan package.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
In the United States, the Detroit automaker wants to eliminate 3,400 of GM’s 29,500 salaried workers, who will receive severance payments, benefit contributions and outplacement help. Most of the job cuts will happen by May 1.[/FONT]
​

[FONT=&quot]Unlike many cuts to hourly workers and last year’s white collar cuts, the company does not plan to offer a buyout this time around because the terms of the government bailout forbids it. GM is also cutting the salaries for those white collar workers who remain with the company by up to 10%.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The fact is that allowing millions and millions and millions of Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals to ‘displace’ U.S. workers from JOBS kicks the bottom out of the ‘consumer base’ FOR YOUR GOODS AND SERVICES. The ‘displaced’ blue-collar workers cannot afford to buy new cars and trucks, because they are forced to compete with ten and twenty Illegal Aliens living in one house! So the General Motors showrooms have fewer and fewer legal U.S. CUSTOMERS, until the GM white-collar workers are also ‘displaced’ from their JOBS; because the local economy is ‘contracting’ in the beginning stages and IMPLODING when local worker displacement levels reach a deadly saturation point. The Government’s answer is to hand General Motors and the banks billions and billions and billions of ‘borrowed’ taxpayer dollars (with interest) rather than simply protect the JOBS within the local job market so ‘legal’ American workers ‘can’ afford to buy new cars and trucks. The Illegal Alien Foreign National need not be hired by General Motors to ‘displace’ the white-collar worker, because ‘demand destruction’ for GM products will do that job. [/FONT]

They're doing all the shitty jobs most Americans don't want.

Right here is the kind of absolute ignorance and stupidity that stands in the way of America ever resolving these Mortgage/Financial/Credit/Economic Crisis Problems in the first place. First of all, the USA has plenty of perfectly good Immigration Laws (Wiki) that are simply NOT BEING ENFORCED. Ask yourself WHY Senor Bushie and now Senor Obama REFUSE to ‘enforce’ the Rule of Law and WHY U.S. workers have nobody protecting their identities and JOBS??? Toro is actually repeating the same stupidity from George “Open Borders Lobby” Bush (Peter Gadiel’s Open Letter to Bush) amounting to a display of ‘his’ willingness NOT to ‘enforce’ the Rule of Law.

The reason I am sitting here in front of this wide-screen monitor right now is because my boss is forced to compete with other contractors using MORE than their fair share of Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals, which means my boss must lower his prices to ‘below cost’ to even get a job. Here is the simple reality that Toro might never wake up to see: One white guy can hire fifty Illegal Aliens and put MANY ‘legal’ U.S. citizens OUT OF WORK by driving DOWN the prices that ‘legal’ contractors can charge for goods and services. Guess what? The white-collar people (chief estimators, supervisors, etc.) are ALSO OUT OF WORK and the fifty Illegal Aliens are sending every nickel they can OUT of the local economy and back across the border to Mexico and all parts of God’s Green Earth!!! Multiply this problem by the millions and millions and millions of Illegal Aliens and you can see the reason that our U.S. Economy is well on the way to IMPLODING right before our eyes, because ‘displaced’ U.S. workers then go out and start ‘displacing’ even more U.S. workers in an endless cycle of worker displacement.

I am not trying to delude anybody into thinking that worker displacement by Illegal Aliens is the ‘only’ source of our Economic Problems, but this represents just one facet of the problem that includes FAR too much Outsourcing and FAR too many Guest Worker Programs (23) and FAR too many NAFTA-like ‘free trade agreements’ destroying the U.S. manufacturing base. When you take a big step backwards and look at the overall situation, then our Congress is allowing the systematic destruction of the American Middle Class through a multifaceted and well-orchestrated PLAN being carried out very much ON PURPOSE. These retards in Washington D.C. cannot possibly be THIS STUPID, which means they are guilty of simply being ‘corrupt’ from taking billions and billions in bribes from 41,000 Lobbyists.

The fact is that masons and their tenders and carpenters and their helpers and roofers, painters, dry-wallers, and everyone working with their hands, are being systematically ‘displaced’ from the local consumer base ‘and’ that affects every ‘service sector’ job ‘and’ every white-collar job in the socioeconomic pyramid that Congress and Senor Obama have sworn to protect. Obama’s Plan is to kick the ‘backdoor’ wide open by giving ‘Comprehensive AMNESTY’ to 20 million Illegal Aliens ‘and’ the unscrupulous ‘employers’ hiring them, even though the U.S. Economy is teetering on COLLAPSE; which is like kicking a man while he is face-down on the ground with 20 million Illegal Aliens raping him at the very same time.

Why would Obama do such a thing? That is simple: Just click on “The Obama Deception” in my signature . . .

GL,

Terral

 

[Ravi]

[FONT=&quot]The ‘displaced’ blue-collar workers cannot afford to buy new cars and trucks, because they are forced to compete with ten and twenty Illegal Aliens living in one house![/FONT]

Then the illegals should be easily able to buy new cars and trucks...I guess they're buying Toyotas, too.

 

[editec]

I find it amusing that when the argument that Immingrants are RESPONSIBLE for the motgage crises is logically smashed into the dust all that happens is those of of who showed what nonsense that is are accused of supporting illegal immigrantion.

Thse xenophobes are too fucking stupid to realize that one thing has NOTHING to do with the other, and so if one points that out to them they ASSUME that you are a liberal who panders to illegal immigrantion.

HEY boys, instead of trying to create straw-liberals on this board over an issue which you clearly do not understand, why not just accept that your premise was bullshit and move on?


There's PLENTY opf things to bitch about regards illegal immigrants, but the MORTGAGE crises just isn't one of those things.

Get over it.

 

[Terral]

Hi Ravi:

The ‘displaced’ blue-collar workers cannot afford to buy new cars and trucks, because they are forced to compete with ten and twenty Illegal Aliens living in one house!

Then the illegals should be easily able to buy new cars and trucks...I guess they're buying Toyotas, too.

No! I can explain how the 'HIRING' OF Illegal Aliens by unscrupulous contractors is 'part' of the problem in this Mortgage/Financial Meltdown, but I cannot climb through this computer screen and force anybody to think using common cotton-picking logic! I have worked with tons of Illegal Aliens and they show up six and eight in one car. You are assuming that the unscrupulous contractor is paying these Illegal Aliens a ‘fair living wage,’ when in reality they are willing to work for less than half the price! These Illegal Aliens spend money at Walmart and McDonalds and the Dollar Store, but are in no position to be buying new cars off the showroom floor. You missed the point that ‘white-collar workers’ from competing companies are OUT OF A JOB, because the contractor hiring ‘your’ Illegal Aliens has lowered his prices to run all ‘legal’ contractors in the area OUT OF BUSINESS.This is another aspect of the insidious 'displacement' cycle that a majority of Americans are too simpleminded to understand. Abraham Lincoln is our prophet:

Wikquotes

Good Ole Abe >> "At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? — Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! — All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.

At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad.If destruction be our lot, 'we must ourselves be its author and finisher.' As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

America deserves destruction, because We The People are too stupid to realize that the enemy has already sprung up among us and 'we ourselves' are the authors and finishers of our own demise . . .

GL,

Terral

 

[AssHatZombie]

Hi Ravi:

The ‘displaced’ blue-collar workers cannot afford to buy new cars and trucks, because they are forced to compete with ten and twenty Illegal Aliens living in one house!

Then the illegals should be easily able to buy new cars and trucks...I guess they're buying Toyotas, too.

No! I can explain how the 'HIRING' OF Illegal Aliens by unscrupulous contractors is 'part' of the problem in this Mortgage/Financial Meltdown, but I cannot climb through this computer screen and force anybody to think using common cotton-picking logic! I have worked with tons of Illegal Aliens and they show up six and eight in one car. You are assuming that the unscrupulous contractor is paying these Illegal Aliens a ‘fair living wage,’ when in reality they are willing to work for less than half the price! These Illegal Aliens spend money at Walmart and McDonalds and the Dollar Store, but are in no position to be buying new cars off the showroom floor. You missed the point that ‘white-collar workers’ from competing companies are OUT OF A JOB, because the contractor hiring ‘your’ Illegal Aliens has lowered his prices to run all ‘legal’ contractors in the area OUT OF BUSINESS.This is another aspect of the insidious 'displacement' cycle that a majority of Americans are too simpleminded to understand. Abraham Lincoln is our prophet:

Good Ole Abe >> "At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? — Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! — All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.

At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad.If destruction be our lot, 'we must ourselves be its author and finisher.' As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

America deserves destruction, because We The People are too stupid to realize that the enemy has already sprung up among us and 'we ourselves' are the authors and finishers of our own demise . . .

GL,

Terral

Yep. And the main treason committers are the globization zealots, and their cadre of ideological liars, perverting all logic, to the point where the idea of an employed american is hate speech.

 

[Toro]

Terral

First, I am not defending illegal immigration as a moral or political issue. I am arguing that illegal immigration did not cause the economic calamity. That is either ignorance or xenophobic scapegoating.

To clarify, you didn't even read your own post so I will highlight it for you.

But it has to do with recovery for the middle class. We don't need immigrants driving wages down. Accept the popular opinion.

The middle class is not being driven down by illegal immigrants.

Immigrants drive wages in U.S. lower, study says

By TYCHE HENDRICKS
SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE

The presence of immigrants in the American work force has pushed wages down for U.S.-born workers, particularly those without a high school education, according to a recent study by a Harvard economist. But other analysts say the evidence is not so clear cut.

Seattlepo.com/business

Let's look further

the Center for Immigration Studies has published Immigration from Mexico: Assessing the Impact on the United States by the Center’s Director of Research, Steven A. Camarota. The new report contains detailed information on the economic and demographic characteristics of Mexican immigrants at both the national and state level. Topics examined include: education, welfare use, poverty and economic mobility, insurance coverage, school-age population, impact on prices and native wages, and performance of the 2nd and 3rd generations.

Among the report’s findings:

• Large-scale immigration from Mexico is a very recent phenomenon. In 1970, the Mexican immigrant population was less than 800,000, compared to nearly 8 million in 2000.

• Almost two-thirds of adult Mexican immigrants have not completed high school, compared to fewer than one in ten natives. Mexican immigrants now account for 22 percent of all high school dropouts in the labor force.

• Though most natives are more skilled and thus do not face significant job competition from Mexican immigrants, this study (consistent with previous research) indicates that the more than 10 million natives who lack a high school degree do face significant job competition from Mexican immigrants.

• By increasing the supply of unskilled labor, Mexican immigration in the 1990s has reduced the wages of workers without a high school education by an estimated 5 percent. The workers affected are already the lowest-paid, comprising a large share of the working poor and those trying to move from welfare to work.

• This reduction in wages for the unskilled has likely reduced prices for consumers by only an estimated .08 to .2 percent in the 1990s. The impact is so small because unskilled labor accounts for only a tiny fraction of total economic output.

Center for Immigration Studies

In other words, illegal immigration is primarily uneducated and unskilled, its effect has primarily hit the lowest socioeconomic classes, and the effect of it has been to drive down wages by 5% or less.

The people who are coming across the border willing to work for less than minimum wage are not coming to America and displacing the American middle class. These people are not coming in and taking jobs that pay $30 an hour. Middle class jobs require education and an ability to communicate. Wetbacks aren't college graduates who are generally bilingual. It is ridiculous to believe that a grade 6-educated unilingual Guatemalan is going to saunter up to Detroit and take a middle-management job. Will they pick berries and clean hotel rooms? Yes. Will they make Powerpoint presentations on distribution logistics? Not likely. It is also preposterous to believe that there are enough illegal immigrants making $4 an hour who could afford a $500,000 home in La Jolla or Boca Raton or Scottsdale, leading to a housing bubble.

Thus, trying to link layoffs of white collar jobs in Michigan to illegal immigrations is wrong. You are demonstrating false causality.

Right here is the kind of absolute ignorance and stupidity that stands in the way of America ever resolving these Mortgage/Financial/Credit/Economic Crisis Problems in the first place. First of all, the USA has plenty of perfectly good Immigration Laws (Wiki) that are simply NOT BEING ENFORCED. Ask yourself WHY Senor Bushie and now Senor Obama REFUSE to ‘enforce’ the Rule of Law and WHY U.S. workers have nobody protecting their identities and JOBS??? Toro is actually repeating the same stupidity from George “Open Borders Lobby” Bush (Peter Gadiel’s Open Letter to Bush) amounting to a display of ‘his’ willingness NOT to ‘enforce’ the Rule of Law.

"Absolute stupidity and ignorance" eh? Well, I'm not the guy trying to scapegoat illegal immigrants for the economic crisis, when they clearly had no role. I'm also not displaying my ignorance of basic economics with a "competition is bad" theory. Nor am I susceptible to silly conspiracy theories, arguing that Bush deliberately tanked the economy like the one you postulate below.

The reason I am sitting here in front of this wide-screen monitor right now is because my boss is forced to compete with other contractors using MORE than their fair share of Illegal Alien Foreign Nationals, which means my boss must lower his prices to ‘below cost’ to even get a job. Here is the simple reality that Toro might never wake up to see: One white guy can hire fifty Illegal Aliens and put MANY ‘legal’ U.S. citizens OUT OF WORK by driving DOWN the prices that ‘legal’ contractors can charge for goods and services. Guess what? The white-collar people (chief estimators, supervisors, etc.) are ALSO OUT OF WORK and the fifty Illegal Aliens are sending every nickel they can OUT of the local economy and back across the border to Mexico and all parts of God’s Green Earth!!! Multiply this problem by the millions and millions and millions of Illegal Aliens and you can see the reason that our U.S. Economy is well on the way to IMPLODING right before our eyes, because ‘displaced’ U.S. workers then go out and start ‘displacing’ even more U.S. workers in an endless cycle of worker displacement.

I am not trying to delude anybody into thinking that worker displacement by Illegal Aliens is the ‘only’ source of our Economic Problems, but this represents just one facet of the problem that includes FAR too much Outsourcing and FAR too many Guest Worker Programs (23) and FAR too many NAFTA-like ‘free trade agreements’ destroying the U.S. manufacturing base.

And here is where the economic logic breaks down. It is a protectionist argument that is as old as the hills, and has been discredited in economics for some time.

Illegal immigration has lowered wages for the lowest socioeconomic classes in America. However, the middle and higher socioeconomic classes benefit, even if it displaces white collar jobs in the trades. Why? Because it shifts the supply curve down. Or - for people who haven't studied economics - more supply means everybody else pays lower prices. Lower prices means everyone else has more money to spend on everything else, which increases their wealth.

You can have a political debate about whether this is good or not and what we should do about it. However, the economic logic is a different matter.

Now comes the really silly part, which I have highlighted and will be left without comment.

When you take a big step backwards and look at the overall situation, then our Congress is allowing the systematic destruction of the American Middle Class through a multifaceted and well-orchestrated PLAN being carried out very much ON PURPOSE. These retards in Washington D.C. cannot possibly be THIS STUPID, which means they are guilty of simply being ‘corrupt’ from taking billions and billions in bribes from 41,000 Lobbyists.

OK then.

The fact is that masons and their tenders and carpenters and their helpers and roofers, painters, dry-wallers, and everyone working with their hands, are being systematically ‘displaced’ from the local consumer base ‘and’ that affects every ‘service sector’ job ‘and’ every white-collar job in the socioeconomic pyramid that Congress and Senor Obama have sworn to protect. Obama’s Plan is to kick the ‘backdoor’ wide open by giving ‘Comprehensive AMNESTY’ to 20 million Illegal Aliens ‘and’ the unscrupulous ‘employers’ hiring them, even though the U.S. Economy is teetering on COLLAPSE; which is like kicking a man while he is face-down on the ground with 20 million Illegal Aliens raping him at the very same time.

Why would Obama do such a thing? That is simple: Just click on “The Obama Deception” in my signature . . .

GL,

Terral

I highlighted that last part to demonstrate your xenophobia.

 

[AssHatZombie]

It didn't cause the mortgage meltdown, but it does suppress wages of american workers, wages which could stimulate the economy.

 

[Ravi]

It didn't cause the mortgage meltdown, but it does suppress wages of american workers, wages which could stimulate the economy.

How so...the money gets spent in the economy more readily among the poor.

 

[editec]

The mortgage crises was made in AMERICA by AMERICANS, folks.

Trying to blame the illegal immigrants is goofy.

 

[AssHatZombie]

It didn't cause the mortgage meltdown, but it does suppress wages of american workers, wages which could stimulate the economy.

How so...the money gets spent in the economy more readily among the poor.

with suppressed wages, less money is around to spend. Plus, they send most of it home too. Two facts decimating your view have been presented.

 

[Ravi]

It didn't cause the mortgage meltdown, but it does suppress wages of american workers, wages which could stimulate the economy.

How so...the money gets spent in the economy more readily among the poor.

with suppressed wages, less money is around to spend. Plus, they send most of it home too. Two facts decimating your view have been presented.

I don't think they do send most of it home, more like 10% gets sent home...it is a lot cheaper to live in Mexico than America...plus what they send home keeps those still at home there, no?

If employers were printing out the money I'd agree with your other point. But the money is still being spent, either by two cheaper workers instead of one reasonably paid worker or by the employer.

 

[editec]

No it's not. The immigrants gravitated to those places where they could find work.

As did the builders to build homes, and the mortgage originating banks which sold people mortgages.

Now if you could quantify the NINA loans and show us that the illegal aliens were the holders of those toxic debts, that might make that point for you that I believe you are attempting to make.

Can you?

Yep.

VDARE.com: 03/01/09 - Minority Mortgage Meltdown (contd.) Pay No Attention To That Diversity Mandate Behind The Curtain

Just no question that minority/illegal loans caused the mortgage meltdown. No question at all. It was Bush's pet. Even the NYT had to admit this:

Ya' got the STATISTICS to make your point?

No?

Well when you do, I'd love to read them.

UNTIL you do, I think this theory is founded on nothing but blather.

 

[AssHatZombie]

How so...the money gets spent in the economy more readily among the poor.

with suppressed wages, less money is around to spend. Plus, they send most of it home too. Two facts decimating your view have been presented.

I don't think they do send most of it home, more like 10% gets sent home...it is a lot cheaper to live in Mexico than America...plus what they send home keeps those still at home there, no?

If employers were printing out the money I'd agree with your other point. But the money is still being spent, either by two cheaper workers instead of one reasonably paid worker or by the employer.

Overall, the payroll is less. And the 10% sent home (if that's even accurate) is an extra 10% that could be spent here. You have no valid arguments.