Illegal Alien Update

[Navy1960]

Mayor Phil Gordon along with the City Manager and City Council of Phoenix, Arizona refuses to take responsibility for the death of a Phoenix Police officer. Instead, Phil Gordon blames the Federal Government for not doing their job!

Mayor Phil Gordon was well aware of what the potential for violence on the streets of Phoenix was and is but what is more important to this mayor is collecting his “city sales taxes” while the citizens of his town are being killed and raped and robbed! Citizens have written, called, rallied while having meetings inviting the mayor to town meetings to stop sanctuary orders.

Mayor Gordon never appeared!

Phoenix Mayors policy

Officers will not stop persons for the sole purpose of determining immigration status.
Officers will not arrest a person when the only violation is an infraction of federal immigration law.
Officers will not contact ICE/Border Patrol for the sole purpose of interpreting.
Officers will not notify ICE/Border Patrol of undocumented persons under the following conditions:
? When the contacted person is a victim and/or witness of a crime
? When contacted during a family disturbance
? The enforcement of minor traffic offenses
? When the person(s) is/are seeking medical treatment

If an undocumented person is arrested, the decision to notify ICE will be based on the following criteria:
? If the offense is a minor traffic violation, ICE will not be notified. (Felony DUI offenders will be turned over to ICE when feasible.)
? If the offense is a misdemeanor and the person meets the cite-and-release criteria, an ATTC may be issued.
? ICE will not be notified by the Phoenix Police Department if the person is released.
? If the person will be released from police custody (not booked) pending further investigation, ICE will not be notified.


I just thought as an update to Shane's story I would start a different thread on this issue and give you all some idea of what is really going on here. On a side note. Phil Gordon has been tapped by the local democratic party to chair and set immigration reform policy and make recommendations to the national party.

 

[KMAN]

That's what happens when the federal government gets involved... If they would let the states take care of themselves (except for some things obviously) these people would be held accountable.

 

[Ravi]

Navy, we had a discussion on this topic recently and discovered that not only are state and local governments not required to enforce federal immigration policy, but also until very recently they were forbidden by law to do it. And what they can now do is very little.

But why would you want your state and local government taking on the burden of the federal government?

 

[Navy1960]

That's what happens when the federal government gets involved... If they would let the states take care of themselves (except for some things obviously) these people would be held accountable.

The one thing that is most glaring, here is the policy that I posted KMAN is something that the City of Phoenix put in place under Phil Gordon to make Phoenix a sancturary city. The other thing that stands out here, is Phil Gordon's involvement with this committee that advises on policy for illegal aliens. When asked yesterday about Officer Shane's death both our Gov. and the mayor ignored the issue.

 

[KMAN]

The one thing that is most glaring, here is the policy that I posted KMAN is something that the City of Phoenix put in place under Phil Gordon to make Phoenix a sancturary city. The other thing that stands out here, is Phil Gordon's involvement with this committee that advises on policy for illegal aliens. When asked yesterday about Officer Shane's death both our Gov. and the mayor ignored the issue.

That's sad... but what's worse is it doesn't surprise me... This country is going down the drain and we have a group of people in this country like Bill Ayers that are more than happy to see it go that way....so frustrating...

 

[Navy1960]

Navy, we had a discussion on this topic recently and discovered that not only are state and local governments not required to enforce federal immigration policy, but also until very recently they were forbidden by law to do it. And what they can now do is very little.

But why would you want your state and local government taking on the burden of the federal government?

While Federal powers in these matters have been found to be absolute, state and local authorities cannot hinder Federal authorities, nor can they withhold information from federal authorities on individuals who have broken federal laws.

"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

 

[WillowTree]

That's a bullshitters argument. It's the Federal Governments responsibility. Then the state and locals do everything the can to thwart the Feds. I say cut off their Fed. money until they stop obstructing justice. The mayor of SF and the Mayor of Phoneix should be in jail right now.

 

[Navy1960]

That's a bullshitters argument. It's the Federal Governments responsibility. Then the state and locals do everything the can to thwart the Feds. I say cut off their Fed. money until they stop obstructing justice. The mayor of SF and the Mayor of Phoneix should be in jail right now.

Okay Willow, which argument is? I think I made it pretty clear it't the responsibility of the Feds to do something about illegal immigration. However, state and local governments like our wonderful mayor and that worthless mayor of San Francisco that pass local laws to interfere with that IMHO should be held liable.

 

[Ravi]

While Federal powers in these matters have been found to be absolute, state and local authorities cannot hinder Federal authorities, nor can they withhold information from federal authorities on individuals who have broken federal laws.

"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

Navy, I think most of what you posted applies to encouraging and finding jobs for illegal aliens.

The point is, in my opinion, is that the state and local authority almost have no authority to question someone's citizenship and they have no obligation to turn in people just for being illegal. I'll see if I can find the thread in question and the part of it that stated the law.

 

[Ravi]

Here you go, Navy:

I found some pretty interesting information about this at the following link (it's a PDF):

http://www.ilw.com/immigdaily/news/2006,0912-crs.pdf

I haven't had time to read the entire thing, but there is information in there that says Congress cannot compel states to enforce Federal immigration law, and in fact since 9/11 Congress has been enacting laws to ALLOW (not compel) states the ability to play a supporting role in immigration matters to alleviate the Federal burden.

If I'm reading it correctly, the State is not required to enforce Federal law and in many cases is forbidden from doing so.

 

[Navy1960]

State and local law enforcement officials have the general power to investigate and arrest violators of federal immigration statutes without prior INS knowledge or approval, as long as they are authorized to do so by state law. There is no extant federal limitation on this authority. The 1996 immigration control legislation passed by Congress was intended to encourage states and local agencies to participate in the process of enforcing federal immigration laws. Immigration officers and local law enforcement officers may detain an individual for a brief warrantless interrogation where circumstances create a reasonable suspicion that the individual is illegally present in the U.S. Specific facts constituting a reasonable suspicion include evasive, nervous, or erratic behavior; dress or speech indicating foreign citizenship; and presence in an area known to contain a concentration of illegal aliens. Hispanic appearance alone is not sufficient. Immigration officers and police must have a valid warrant or valid employer's consent to enter workplaces or residences. Any vehicle used to transport or harbor illegal aliens, or used as a substantial part of an activity that encourages illegal aliens to come to or reside in the U.S. may be seized by an immigration officer and is subject to forfeiture. The forfeiture power covers any conveyances used within the U.S.
Source INS*

 

[Ravi]

Again, Navy, you are quoting the portion of the law that applies to the employment or recruitment to employ illegals. Please read my post above yours.

Then ask yourself how it is that sanctuary cities can even exist.

 

[Navy1960]

Although there is quite a bit of debate with respect to state and local law
enforcement officers’ authority to enforce immigration law (see discussion below),
as a matter of practice, it is permissible for state and local law enforcement officers
to inquire into the status of an immigrant during the course of their normal duties in
enforcing state and local law. This practice allows state and local law enforcement
officers to play an indirect role that is incidental to their general criminal enforcement
authority.

Thats from the opinion paper you gave me Ravi. in summation , I don't think anyone doubts that the responsibility for enforcement is in the hands of the Feds. However, there are no laws barring state and local authorities from enforcing it as well. In fact a case can be made that if a local authority passes a law that hinders the federal authority in the performance of their duties in aprehending these people, that they are in fact aiding and abetting.

 

[Navy1960]

State enforcement of the criminal provisions of the INA is seen as being
consistent with the state’s police power to make arrests for criminal acts and the
expectation that states are expected to cooperate in the enforcement of federal
criminal laws.19 Civil immigration law enforcement, on the other hand, has generally
been viewed as strictly a federal responsibility: The civil provisions of the INA have
been assumed to constitute a pervasive and preemptive regulatory scheme — leaving
no room for a direct state or local role.20 The distinction between civil and criminal
violations in the INA has been seen to suggest a bifurcated role for states and
localities. For example, state and local law enforcement officers cannot arrest
someone solely for illegal presence for the purpose of deporting them because it is
a civil violation, but they can arrest someone for the criminal offense of entering the
country illegally.21 To the degree that it is not preempted, the authority of state and
local law enforcement officers to investigate and arrest for violations of federal law
is determined by reference to state law.22 This may be done through express
authorization in state law

Again from the opinion paper you sent me, which by the way attempts to seperate the criminal and civil illegal immigration. In the end state involvement depends upon state laws.

 

[WillowTree]

Okay Willow, which argument is? I think I made it pretty clear it't the responsibility of the Feds to do something about illegal immigration. However, state and local governments like our wonderful mayor and that worthless mayor of San Francisco that pass local laws to interfere with that IMHO should be held liable.

I was responding to Ravi's response.

 

[Ravi]

Navy, I think we are interpreting the same text and coming to different conclusions.

Your last post reads to me that the state or local authorities can make an arrest when someone is in the process of crossing into the country illegally.

Your second to last post reads to me that in the course of investigating crimes, the state and local authorities may ask someone's status. But it doesn't read that they can ask someone's status just because they feel like asking it.

And no where are they compelled to enforce immigration policy, unless it pertains to employment.

 

[RoadVirus]

Mayor Phil Gordon along with the City Manager and City Council of Phoenix, Arizona refuses to take responsibility for the death of a Phoenix Police officer.

Not surprised. The Mayor likes blood on his hands

The point is, in my opinion, is that the state and local authority almost have no authority to question someone's citizenship and they have no obligation to turn in people just for being illegal. I'll see if I can find the thread in question and the part of it that stated the law.

So you're saying the state and local officials should ignore an illegal when they arrest him for shoplifting or rape? That's just asking trouble.

All State and Local officials should be required to screen the citizenship of all those they arrest to prevent them from becoming repeat offenders. When they get a hit that the person is in the country illegally, they can call ICE to come pick em up.

I agree, however, that State and Locals shouldn't be doing raids. They don't ahve the resources. They should leave that to ICE.

 

[Ravi]

So you're saying the state and local officials should ignore an illegal when they arrest him for shoplifting or rape?

If you can find where I said that I'd be interested in reading it.

 

[RoadVirus]

If you can find where I said that I'd be interested in reading it.

You said it in post #9. Basically, you're saying that State and Local law shouldn't check on an illegal and report them:

The point is, in my opinion, is that the state and local authority almost have no authority to question someone's citizenship and they have no obligation to turn in people just for being illegal.

 

[Ravi]

You said it in post #9. Basically, you're saying that State and Local law shouldn't check on an illegal and report them:

I'd ask you again but I see there is no point.