If You're Not Libertarian, Then What Do You Support?

[GeoLaureate8]

...Fascist Totalitarian Authoritarianism.

Liberals support big government controlling your lives.
Conservatives support big government controlling your lives.

How?

Liberals don't believe in economic freedom and individual liberty.
Conservatives don't believe in social freedom and individual liberty.

Both Democrats and Republicans are two pillars that uphold the global fascist dictatorship.

How come nobody from either speaks out and defends freedom and the Constitution?

If you're not Libertarian (or some variation of it: Minarchist, Anarchist, Panarchist, Geoist, etc.), then your position is simply indefensible unless you are willing to concede that you are against freedom.


If you think you can defend your non-Libertarian views, then please feel free to do so.


.

 

[dblack]

...Fascist Totalitarian Authoritarianism.

Okay... I am a Libertarian, but dont ya think this might be overstating things just a tad?

 

[Liberty]

as a libertarian, i approve this thread.

 

[GeoLaureate8]

...Fascist Totalitarian Authoritarianism.

Okay... I am a Libertarian, but dont ya think this might be overstating things just a tad?

I'd rather not use euphemisms. I just call it what it is.

Also, we aren't just being enslaved physically, but also psychologically. There is psychological warfare going on and that's why people have this confused look on their face when you tell them they aren't living in a free country.

For example, they gave the Patriot Act a clever name to disguise the fact that it's bill that authorizes a big brother government that can spy on and enslave everyone it wants to. Luckily, many people have woken up and are not fooled by the Patriot Act, but that's how they do it.

.

 

[Avatar4321]

The Constitution of the United States. Try it sometime.

 

[Steelplate]

Let me ask something, when economic freedom spits in the face of social freedom, which side wins?

Hey... tell me the Libertarian REAL LIFE plan to deal with Poverty, health Care and our Old Age(I'm 46, don't have time to re-invent myself), and I might bite.

I don't want to hear about "with increased opportunities....or "Once economic freedom is achieved..."

I want to know what the plan is to deal with it now.

Because other than the Libertarian Point of View on Social and societal issues, I am on board. I call myself a "Liberaltarian" all the time. I agree with many of the tenants of Libertarianism, I just cannot abandon the poor.

 

[GeoLaureate8]

The Constitution of the United States. Try it sometime.

I have. I mentioned it in the OP.

Btw, it's the Libertarians who tend to be the strict Constitutionalists, not anybody else.


.

 

[GeoLaureate8]

Let me ask something, when economic freedom spits in the face of social freedom, which side wins?

I don't see how that could happen.

Hey... tell me the Libertarian REAL LIFE plan to deal with Poverty, health Care and our Old Age(I'm 46, don't have time to re-invent myself), and I might bite.

If there's a demand for assisting poverty, providing healthcare, and assisting seniors, then the free market will provide it.

For example, rather than the government taking your tax dollars out of your hard earned paycheck and spending it on wars rather than your healthcare, then it's best to put your money into a private health insurance company run similar to car insurance companies.

As far as poverty and senior citizens go, we already see the private sector assisting the poor with homeless shelters and assisted living as well as senior retirement homes.

I don't want to hear about "with increased opportunities....or "Once economic freedom is achieved..."

I want to know what the plan is to deal with it now.

As with anything, processes of change take time. No ideology can provide an instant fix, but Libertarianism would fix it real quick.

Because other than the Libertarian Point of View on Social and societal issues, I am on board. I call myself a "Liberaltarian" all the time. I agree with many of the tenants of Libertarianism, I just cannot abandon the poor.

I myself have called my position Left Libertarianism, so we might be on the same page, though I don't lean that far left, just a tad.

.

 

[Two Thumbs]

You're confusing conservative with republican.

And using a very broad brush with people that call themselves conservatives. We are not all a bunch of bible thumpers.

 

[The Rabbi]

Narco-libertarians are descended from anarchists and are thus 2nd cousins to communists. They support the tyranny of the individual.

 

[Steelplate]

The truth is, I think that Libertarians and Progressives ought to get together and come up with a working compromise that benefits everyone.

The two main parties(Dems and the GOP) are so far up the corporate butt these days, that nothing gets done except for the rhetoric that gets shouted at each other.

Historically, you have to take a look back at our finest times and try to get back there. in the 50's the top tax rate was 90%. Interstates were built, Dams, and other public works projects. People still got very rich and the everyday people had good, family sustaining jobs that allowed them to buy houses(and pay them off), cars and live a reasonably good life.

too often today, it's all about quick profits. Which is fine for the "haves", but terrible for the "have nots".

I know you don't see how it can happen that economic freedom spits in the face of Social freedom. But look around you. We have been pandering to our wealthiest citizens for 30+ years and they repaid us by killing the country.

As far as Health Care, SS, and the like? I tend to disagree. I like the idea of my money going somewhere where it isn't subject to the whims of the market. If you want to privatize everything, then there has to be strict regulations so that people aren't left with nothing. Call me jaded, but after the financial fiasco in 2008 and the subsequent bailouts, I don't trust the Free Market, because it's not Free, it's rigged... and not in favor of people like you and me.

 

[DiamondDave]

I am usually described as conservative.. being about a 5 on a 10 scale on the left/right axis... and pretty close to 0 on the libertarian/authoritarian axis.... for I believe in the upholding of personal liberties that are allowed by law, but fully believe that some things persons would like to do should be against the law (illicit and illegal drugs, etc)... I cannot go the strict libertarian view, just as I cannot go the strict authoritarian view.. the government should have lesser powers... and those powers should be strictly listed as they are limited.. but when the government does have a granted power, it needs to be very powerful indeed in those realms

 

[Liberty]

narco-libertarians are descended from anarchists and are thus 2nd cousins to communists. They support the tyranny of the individual.

lolllllllllll

 

[Avatar4321]

The Constitution of the United States. Try it sometime.

I have. I mentioned it in the OP.

Btw, it's the Libertarians who tend to be the strict Constitutionalists, not anybody else.


.

Bullcrap. And you know it.

 

[GeoLaureate8]

You're confusing conservative with republican.

No I'm not. I agree that many Republicans aren't true Conservatives because they support neither social nor economic freedom.

However, Conservatives are defined as those who support economic freedom and limited social freedom.

Conservatives want to control your social/personal lives which is utterly unacceptable.

And using a very broad brush with people that call themselves conservatives. We are not all a bunch of bible thumpers.

I never said any such thing nor did I imply it. There's no mention of the Bible or religion anywhere in my post.

However, I will say that most Republicans are against religious freedom and oppose the way people conduct their social lives for religious reasons.


.

 

[Avatar4321]

The truth is, I think that Libertarians and Progressives ought to get together and come up with a working compromise that benefits everyone.

The two main parties(Dems and the GOP) are so far up the corporate butt these days, that nothing gets done except for the rhetoric that gets shouted at each other.

Historically, you have to take a look back at our finest times and try to get back there. in the 50's the top tax rate was 90%. Interstates were built, Dams, and other public works projects. People still got very rich and the everyday people had good, family sustaining jobs that allowed them to buy houses(and pay them off), cars and live a reasonably good life.

too often today, it's all about quick profits. Which is fine for the "haves", but terrible for the "have nots".

I know you don't see how it can happen that economic freedom spits in the face of Social freedom. But look around you. We have been pandering to our wealthiest citizens for 30+ years and they repaid us by killing the country.

As far as Health Care, SS, and the like? I tend to disagree. I like the idea of my money going somewhere where it isn't subject to the whims of the market. If you want to privatize everything, then there has to be strict regulations so that people aren't left with nothing. Call me jaded, but after the financial fiasco in 2008 and the subsequent bailouts, I don't trust the Free Market, because it's not Free, it's rigged... and not in favor of people like you and me.

Wish you people would stop blaming all the problems in the nation on people who join together for business reasons.

Could you tell me what possible agreements someone who wants government control over everything and someone who wants no government control could possibly come to?

 

[DiamondDave]

You're confusing conservative with republican.

No I'm not. I agree that many Republicans aren't true Conservatives because they support neither social nor economic freedom.

However, Conservatives are defined as those who support economic freedom and limited social freedom.

Conservatives want to control your social/personal lives which is utterly unacceptable.

And using a very broad brush with people that call themselves conservatives. We are not all a bunch of bible thumpers.

I never said any such thing nor did I imply it. There's no mention of the Bible or religion anywhere in my post.

However, I will say that most Republicans are against religious freedom and oppose the way people conduct their social lives for religious reasons.


.

Absolute rubbish... you would not know conservativism if it bit you on the ass... just that you have an antagonistic and preconceived notion you wish to defend with a rant based on assumptions

 

[Steelplate]

I wish you would stop blaming all the problems in the nation on poor people. They have zero power and no resources.

What possible agreements? Well... how about time? Let's phase in the Libertarian ideology over time... gradually reducing government control as the ideology provides more opportunities?

 

[GeoLaureate8]

Narco-libertarians are descended from anarchists and are thus 2nd cousins to communists.

Anarchism has nothing to do with Communism. They are nothing at all alike.

They support the tyranny of the individual.

That makes no sense. Communism is collectivist and sometimes consistent with dictatorship. Anarchism is a system of freedom and non-coercion. If a society is one of individuals that are non-coercive, how could there be tyranny at all?


.

 

[Avatar4321]

I wish you would stop blaming all the problems in the nation on poor people. They have zero power and no resources.

What possible agreements? Well... how about time? Let's phase in the Libertarian ideology over time... gradually reducing government control as the ideology provides more opportunities?

I dont blame all of the problems in our nation on poor people. I lay our problems at the footstep of those responsible: We the people.

We are where we are because of our individual choices. Nothing else.

We give our power away, we let the government assume it or we blame others for our responsibilities.

Once you realize there are no rich and poor, that we are all brothers and that the "class" bullcrap we discuss is just a way to divide the people and make excuses why we dont fulfill our responsibilities, the sooner you will be to fixing the problem.

The problem isnt with the government. The problem is with us. The government is a reflection of us and will continue to be so. Until we stop being corrupt, the government wont. Until we live within our means, the government will not. until we take care of those in need, the government will continue to botch it.

Government is not the solution. We are. We just need to wake people up.