If you want a recession, tax food...

[AllieBaba]

I've been saying for years that the whole biodiesel thing is enough to put us in a deep, deep hole. It will do so, if it ever gets off the ground, by taking food out of the food chain, and ultimately by taxing food (i.e., corn).

They're already trying to do this...the idea of a tax on corn syrup and products with corn syrup in them. Does ANYBODY think this is a sound economic idea???? It's bad enough that we're being pushed to use it in fuel, but to actually tax food...this is how famines and global recessions start.

And watching CNN the other morning, they had an economist on that was saying the exact same thing..over and over..."it's a mistake to tax food, and using food for fuel is a really bad idea" despite the sneers and jibes of the morning news announcers. He kept plugging away at it.

I don't really expect to see him again, but he's absolutely right.

 

[Larkinn]

I've been saying for years that the whole biodiesel thing is enough to put us in a deep, deep hole. It will do so, if it ever gets off the ground, by taking food out of the food chain, and ultimately by taxing food (i.e., corn).

They're already trying to do this...the idea of a tax on corn syrup and products with corn syrup in them. Does ANYBODY think this is a sound economic idea???? It's bad enough that we're being pushed to use it in fuel, but to actually tax food...this is how famines and global recessions start.

And watching CNN the other morning, they had an economist on that was saying the exact same thing..over and over..."it's a mistake to tax food, and using food for fuel is a really bad idea" despite the sneers and jibes of the morning news announcers. He kept plugging away at it.

I don't really expect to see him again, but he's absolutely right.

Whats wrong with taxing something to raise it to normal prices? Corn and corn syrup are way underpriced in this country with some dubious results.

 

[AllieBaba]

Think about it, your brilliance.

We already subsidize farmers in order to provide food at a reasonable price to people. So where is the sense in turning around and taxing people who buy it? The whole purpose of subsidizing is to keep the cost down. It is insanity to then raise the cost...and turn that profit over to the government.

The increased demand on corn for biofuel affects the global food market. It takes corn and other grains out of the market, which means the cost of the food in the market still goes up. That means the price of tortillas, cornmeal, bread, livestock feed, EGGS, MILK...EVERYTHING goes up.

As it has been doing for the past year or so.

Taxing food has never been a viable option, and to say, "why not tax it to normalize the price" has got to be one of the most idiotic statements I've ever heard.

 

[Larkinn]

Think about it, your brilliance.

We already subsidize farmers in order to provide food at a reasonable price to people. So where is the sense in turning around and taxing people who buy it? The whole purpose of subsidizing is to keep the cost down. It is insanity to then raise the cost...and turn that profit over to the government.

Because they aren't taxing all food just corn syrup. And by the way we subsidize farmers because they are a powerful voting bloc. And really the government doesn't make a profit off of taxing the food...if you think they will even begin to recoup the massive subsidies payed out, you are naive.

The increased demand on corn for biofuel affects the global food market. It takes corn and other grains out of the market, which means the cost of the food in the market still goes up. That means the price of tortillas, cornmeal, bread, livestock feed, EGGS, MILK...EVERYTHING goes up.

As it has been doing for the past year or so.

Correct, partially. The price of everything else goes up, but not because we take corn out of the market. People don't go to the store and say "well there isnt corn today...well I guess I'll buy more milk!". That is absurd. What happens is that corn is force fed to cows because it is so plentiful and cheaper than grain. I don't have a problem with subsidizing food, I have a problem with subsidizing one particular type of food because the farmers of that food are powerful, and so that food goes into pretty much everything.

Taxing food has never been a viable option, and to say, "why not tax it to normalize the price" has got to be one of the most idiotic statements I've ever heard.

Corn subsidies are political payback, nothing more.

 

[AllieBaba]

No, the price of milk, eggs and meat goes up because COWS, CHICKENS AND PIGS EAT CORN. The price of other grains goes up because there isn't as much corn, and other grains have to fill in the gaps. And everything that depends on those staples climbs up, up, up.

And when there's no corn, that means the corn that does make it to market costs more.

And how is corn "force-fed" to cows? I've been around cows all my life and have never seen this phenomenon...

 

[Larkinn]

No, the price of milk, eggs and meat goes up because COWS, CHICKENS AND PIGS EAT CORN. The price of other grains goes up because there isn't as much corn, and other grains have to fill in the gaps. And everything that depends on those staples climbs up, up, up.

Yeah thats pretty much what I said. But alright.

And when there's no corn, that means the corn that does make it to market costs more.

Actually creating a tax on corn syrup would mean that MORE corn would make it to market as corn, and less as syrup.

And how is corn "force-fed" to cows? I've been around cows all my life and have never seen this phenomenon...

I have no idea how its done.

 

[AllieBaba]

I wonder..if you don't know how it's done, what was the point of the comment???

And you implied that my comment about the cost of milk increasing was based on increased demand on milk, instead of making the logical connection between the cost of corn and the cost of milk because cows consume it.

Taxing corn syrup to force more corn into the market place is about the stupidest thing I've heard...next to the other stupid things you say, that is.

So we'll just let this topic fall to it's death, as you are incapable of contributing anything intelligent to the discussion. Maybe somebody else who actually understands economics will comment. Or perhaps not, as it is a pretty basic and well understood fact of economics...DON'T TAX FOOD. Particularly staples.

 

[Larkinn]

I wonder..if you don't know how it's done, what was the point of the comment???

That corn is fed to cows was the point. Derrr.

And you implied that my comment about the cost of milk increasing was based on increased demand on milk, instead of making the logical connection between the cost of corn and the cost of milk because cows consume it.

Thats because you said ALL foods would increase, not just milk. Or do you think the price of ravioli will go up because we feed baby ravioli corn to make it big and strong?

Taxing corn syrup to force more corn into the market place is about the stupidest thing I've heard...next to the other stupid things you say, that is.

Yay another bullshit assertion. What else is new.

So we'll just let this topic fall to it's death, as you are incapable of contributing anything intelligent to the discussion. Maybe somebody else who actually understands economics will comment. Or perhaps not, as it is a pretty basic and well understood fact of economics...DON'T TAX FOOD. Particularly staples.

Corn syrup isn't a staple, genius.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Of course the whole reason that soft drinks and other mass-produced snacks started using corn syrup instead of sugar is because the sugar producers in Florida got a protectionist tariff passed. That's why Mexican coke tastes better, it has real sugar. That's also why Coca-Cola brought out the "new coke" gimmick in the early 80's. They never expected it to catch on, they did it so that no one would notice when they switched back to an "original" formula that wasn't actually the original formula.

 

[Bern80]

Of course the whole reason that soft drinks and other mass-produced snacks started using corn syrup instead of sugar is because the sugar producers in Florida got a protectionist tariff passed. That's why Mexican coke tastes better, it has real sugar. That's also why Coca-Cola brought out the "new coke" gimmick in the early 80's. They never expected it to catch on, they did it so that no one would notice when they switched back to an "original" formula that wasn't actually the original formula.

What do you think of the fair tax?

 

[Psychoblues]

There is no such thing as a fair tax. But, we do have to pay for the comforts and protections our government provides. I think millionaires have most of the comforts and require most of the protections that our government provides. See where I'm going with this or do I need to get elementary and belabour a subject that is otherwise simple mathematics?

 

[Bern80]

There is no such thing as a fair tax. But, we do have to pay for the comforts and protections our government provides. I think millionaires have most of the comforts and require most of the protections that our government provides. See where I'm going with this or do I need to get elementary and belabour a subject that is otherwise simple mathematics?

Yes I know where your going with this and it has nothing to do with math. Despite saying there no such thing as a fair tax 'where you are going' is essentially just that. With a fair tax, you are taxed based on what you spend your money on, the rich buy more so they will be taxed more. The difference is spending is taxed rather than earnings which seems more fair to me.

 

[Mr.Conley]

Of course the whole reason that soft drinks and other mass-produced snacks started using corn syrup instead of sugar is because the sugar producers in Florida got a protectionist tariff passed. That's why Mexican coke tastes better, it has real sugar. That's also why Coca-Cola brought out the "new coke" gimmick in the early 80's. They never expected it to catch on, they did it so that no one would notice when they switched back to an "original" formula that wasn't actually the original formula.

I second the Baron. If you want to lower corn prices right now then you have to cut the ethanol subsidies and (ideally) eliminate the sugar tariff.

 

[midcan5]

We need to stop turning farm land into suburbia for a start, plenty of farm land out there, some places in NJ are taking land off the market to slow sprawl. But these things are all double edged swords, I was talking to a friend in the Food market and asked why eggs got so expensive, seems exporting them brings a higher profit. Sorta weird given they are perishable and transportation costs.