If you think taxes should be raised...

[M14 Shooter]

If you don’t put your trust in deceptive (if not fraudulent) companies and CEOs like Ken Lay of Enron. If you are lucky – if you have the money to go to the right school.

Speaking of putting your money in the hands of the corrupt...

... if your 401k is made up wholly of Enron stock, you still have more money than what sits in the -entire- Social Security Trust Fund.

 

[mattskramer]

I see you've fallen for Obama's Big Lie.

If the average worker's salary is $30K/yr, that means the salary for the CEOs Obama is talking about has a salary of $374M/yr

How many of those can you find, and are they indicative of CEOs in general?

Or, is Obama guilty of cherry picking information for political gain -- if not lying outright -- expecting you to unquestioningly swallow it and ask for more?

I might need to listen to his advertisement again carefully, but I think that he said that he said that some people make in 10 minutes what some people take a year to make. I don’t think that he was speaking of the average employee.

 

[mattskramer]

How many of those can you find, and are they indicative of CEOs in general?

Oh. There are plenty of callous whoppers that have no problem with giving it to the little guys. Here is a classic:

This is what really irks me. Shouldn’t the powerful decision-making CEOs be the ones to suffer financially if the decisions that they make cause heavy losses and result in bankruptcy? It is sad when the little guy who does not have much of a say in a company gets in trouble when the powers that be make bad decisions. What is your opinion?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines#Bankruptcy_and_reorganization

United took advantage of its Chapter 11 status to negotiate hard-to-cut costs with employees, suppliers, and contractors, including cancellation of feeder contracts with United Express Atlantic Coast Airlines (which became Independence Air) and Air Wisconsin (which became a US Airways Express carrier).

Most controversial of all, however, was the 2005 cancellation of its pension plan, the largest such default in U.S. corporate history (yeah, but I can’t default on my promises to pay my credit card debt or my home mortgage). It renegotiated its contracts with the pilots' and mechanics' unions for lower pay; however, the Association of Flight Attendants resisted until the bankruptcy court ruled in United's favor. Criticism was also leveled at the CEO, Glenn Tilton, for demanding pay cuts from employees while receiving the highest salary of any major U.S. airline CEO.

What a creep! How could he get away with that?!

 

[mattskramer]

Speaking of putting your money in the hands of the corrupt...

... if your 401k is made up wholly of Enron stock, you still have more money than what sits in the -entire- Social Security Trust Fund.

Huh?!? As I understand it, after the deception was made public, Enron stock plummeted. Each employee that invested almost solely in Enron lost money. Are you just being silly and exaggerating?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Huh?!? As I understand it, after the deception was made public, Enron stock plummeted. Each employee that invested almost solely in Enron lost money. Are you just being silly and exaggerating?

Neither.
Whatever Enron sells for now is irrelevant as there is exaclty $0 in the SS trust fund.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Oh. There are plenty of callous whoppers that have no problem with giving it to the little guys.

Um...
I asked you how many CEOs have a salary of $375M or so, as necessitated by the claim Obama made (that you parroted, without reference).
Can you find any or not?

I might need to listen to his advertisement again carefully, but I think that he said that he said that some people make in 10 minutes what some people take a year to make. I don’t think that he was speaking of the average employee.

"Some" employees make $1000 per year.
Do you think Obama was thinking of them when he made that statement?
If so, then does his claim really mean anything?

http://www.bizzyblog.com/2008/02/25/obamas-very-shaky-10-minute-ceo-earnings-claim/

Obama thanks you for swallowing.

 

[mattskramer]

Neither.
Whatever Enron sells for now is irrelevant as there is exaclty $0 in the SS trust fund.

Okay. I get it. That was clever. People on SS are still receiving checks though.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Okay. I get it. That was clever. People on SS are still receiving checks though.

Yes. And those checks are running up the deficits.

 

[mattskramer]

Um...
I asked you how many CEOs have a salary of $375M or so, as necessitated by the claim Obama made (that you parroted, without reference).
Can you find any or not?

Thanks for giving me the quote that destroyed your straw man.
He did not say that he was referring to the average worker, as your comment implies. Therefore the whole challenge to find CEOs making $374M/yr is irrelevant. Anyway, I don’t accept the challenge because such a figure can’t be derived from Obama’s comment. Nice try.

"Some" employees make $1000 per year.
Do you think Obama was thinking of them when he made that statement?
If so, then does his claim really mean anything?

I'm not a mind-reader. I don’t know what exact figures or workers he had in mind. Many politicians make such vague comments.

http://www.bizzyblog.com/2008/02/25/obamas-very-shaky-10-minute-ceo-earnings-claim/

Obama thanks you for swallowing.

I did not "swallow" anything except precisely what he said, which you can not prove to be a lie.

 

[mattskramer]

Yes. And those checks are running up the deficits.

At least the SS is not acting like Ken Lay of Enron and Glenn Tilton of United did.Care to comment on these two creeps?

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'm not a mind-reader. I don’t know what exact figures or workers he had in mind. Many politicians make such vague comments.

A predictable cop-out on your part.

You're right, he could have been talking about -any- worker.
So, what's wrong with a CEO making $125,000/yr?

 

[mattskramer]

A predictable cop-out on your part.

You're right, he could have been talking about any worker.
So, what's wrong with a CEO making $125,000/yr?

You gave me a challenge. I declined it. I did not delay or beat around the bush. I answer your questions as I always have – and, unlike many people here, I readily admit when I am wrong.

There is nothing wrong with earning a lot of money provided that you do it in an honest, forthright manner. I'm waiting for you to comment on Ken Lay of Enron and Glenn Tilton. I guess that your position amounts to "Too bad, you gullible little people. I can screw you and still walk away with the riches".

 

[M14 Shooter]

You gave me a challenge. I declined it. I did not delay or beat around the bush. I answer your questions as I always have – and, unlike many people here, I readily admit when I am wrong.

Uh-huh.

There is nothing wrong with earning a lot of money provided that you do it in an honest, forthright manner.

So, what's the problem with a CEO making more in 10 minutes than some workers make in a year?

 

[mattskramer]

Uh-huh.

So, what's the problem with a CEO making more in 10 minutes than some workers make in a year?

Okay. I think that you made your point. I suppose that, technically, there is nothing wrong with a clever resourceful CEO getting rich off of the hard work of others that are willing to work for pennies to the dollar, provided that the CEO gets rich in an honest, forthright manner.

I'm still waiting for you to comment on Ken Lay of Enron and Glenn Tilton. I guess that your position amounts to "Too bad, you gullible little people. I can screw you and still walk away with the riches".

 

[M14 Shooter]

Okay. I think that you made your point. I suppose that, technically, there is nothing wrong with a clever resourceful CEO getting rich off of the hard work of others that are willing to work for pennies to the dollar, provided that the CEO gets rich in an honest, forthright manner.

So, since business ethics are not mentioned at all, you agree that Obama's statement is just a rhetorical device to fuel class-warfare sentiment and doesn't actually raise any real issue.

And so, your statement that...

when CEOs make in 10 minutes what it takes some people a year to earn – it seems like something is wrong

...is in error. Right?

I'm still waiting for you to comment on Ken Lay of Enron and Glenn Tilton.

Given that neither of these two people have anything to do with the issue at hand, I have no intention of commenting on either. Take your red herring elsewhere.

 

[mattskramer]

So, you agree that Obama's statement is just a rhetorical device to fuel class-warfare sentiment and doesn't actually raise any real issue.

Yes. It is an exaggeration and rhetorical device that so many politicians use.

If you exclude the qualifier that such CEOs are to get the money in an honest, forthright manner then I was not wrong. If you include such a qualifier, then I was wrong.

Given that neither of these two people have anything to do with the issue at hand, I have no intention of commenting on either. Take your red herring elsewhere.

It is not a red herring. It is relevant to the discussion of rich CEOs and coincides with my qualifier.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Yes. It is an exaggeration and rhetorical device that so many politicians use.

So, you take back your statement that "it seems like something is wrong".
Thanks for being honest.

It is not a red herring. It is relevant to the discussion

Not in terms of the statement in question, as the statement is plenary and makes no allowance for ethics of any sort.

 

[Paulie]

Well, certainly they can't tell them not to give golden parachutes or pay people absurd amounts of money, but you absolutey CAN tell them they have to pay benefits and a living wage to their workers. See how easy that is.



You still believe in Santa Claus, too, don't you?

jillian, why can't ALMOST any random person become a CEO?

The fact that some people who were born with NOTHING, and have become self-made millionaires, proves it.

I realize that there are certain variables that will keep certain people from being able to accomplish it, but does that alone mean that we shouldn't be a capitalist society?

Would you seriously rather it be like Cuba here in the US? Everyone gets the same slice of government cheese?

You can't have a fluorishing socialist society without some form of governmental dictatorship, and it certainly wouldn't be possible with our current constitution.

I'll look forward to your rebuttal, though.

 

[M14 Shooter]

jillian, why can't ALMOST any random person become a CEO?

All you need to do to be successful in a capitalistic society is to do something or make something that people will pay you for.

 

[mattskramer]

So, you take back your statement that "it seems like something is wrong". Thanks for being honest.

You are welcome, but I always am.

Not in terms of the statement in question, as the statement is plenary and makes no allowance for ethics of any sort.

Oh well. If CEOs do it unethically, then there is a problem. If they don’t do it unethically, then there is no problem. I’ll leave it at that.