If you got rid of all the guns, would we be safe then?

[Delta4Embassy]

Probably not:

"On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng (郑民生)[7] 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping,"

"another knife-wielding man named Chen Kangbing, 33 (陈康炳)[12] at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher."

On April 29 in Taixing,[8] Jiangsu, unemployed 47-year-old Xu Yuyuan went to Zhongxin Kindergarten[15] and stabbed 28 students and two teachers after stabbing the security guard;[9] most of the Taixing students were 4 years old.[16] The attack was the second in China in just two days.

On April 30, Wang Yonglai used a hammer to cause head injury to preschool children in Weifang,[8] Shandong, then used gasoline to commit suicide by self-immolation."

"An attacker named Wu Huanming (吴环明), 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010;[8] early reports were removed from the internet in China, for fear that mass coverage of such violence can provoke copycat attacks.[8][17] The attacker later committed suicide at his house;"

"On May 18, 2010 at Hainan Institute of Science and Technology (海南科技职业学院), a vocational college in Haikou, Hainan, more than 10 men[19] charged into a dormitory wielding knives around 2:30 am;[20] after attacking the security guard and disabling security cameras, 9 students were injured, 1 seriously.[20] The local men attacked the dorm in an act of revenge and retaliation against college students following conflict the previous day at an off-campus food stall in which 4 students were injured, for a total of 13."

more non-gun mass murder incidents here,
School attacks in China (2010–12) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we get rid of the guns we'll have less shootings but not less murders.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Probably not:

"On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng (郑民生)[7] 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping,"

"another knife-wielding man named Chen Kangbing, 33 (陈康炳)[12] at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher."

On April 29 in Taixing,[8] Jiangsu, unemployed 47-year-old Xu Yuyuan went to Zhongxin Kindergarten[15] and stabbed 28 students and two teachers after stabbing the security guard;[9] most of the Taixing students were 4 years old.[16] The attack was the second in China in just two days.

On April 30, Wang Yonglai used a hammer to cause head injury to preschool children in Weifang,[8] Shandong, then used gasoline to commit suicide by self-immolation."

"An attacker named Wu Huanming (吴环明), 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010;[8] early reports were removed from the internet in China, for fear that mass coverage of such violence can provoke copycat attacks.[8][17] The attacker later committed suicide at his house;"

"On May 18, 2010 at Hainan Institute of Science and Technology (海南科技职业学院), a vocational college in Haikou, Hainan, more than 10 men[19] charged into a dormitory wielding knives around 2:30 am;[20] after attacking the security guard and disabling security cameras, 9 students were injured, 1 seriously.[20] The local men attacked the dorm in an act of revenge and retaliation against college students following conflict the previous day at an off-campus food stall in which 4 students were injured, for a total of 13."

more non-gun mass murder incidents here,
School attacks in China (2010–12) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we get rid of the guns we'll have less shootings but not less murders.

McVey didn't use a gun either. Nor did the 911 hijackers.

 

[Asclepias]

Probably not:

"On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng (郑民生)[7] 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping,"

"another knife-wielding man named Chen Kangbing, 33 (陈康炳)[12] at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher."

On April 29 in Taixing,[8] Jiangsu, unemployed 47-year-old Xu Yuyuan went to Zhongxin Kindergarten[15] and stabbed 28 students and two teachers after stabbing the security guard;[9] most of the Taixing students were 4 years old.[16] The attack was the second in China in just two days.

On April 30, Wang Yonglai used a hammer to cause head injury to preschool children in Weifang,[8] Shandong, then used gasoline to commit suicide by self-immolation."

"An attacker named Wu Huanming (吴环明), 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010;[8] early reports were removed from the internet in China, for fear that mass coverage of such violence can provoke copycat attacks.[8][17] The attacker later committed suicide at his house;"

"On May 18, 2010 at Hainan Institute of Science and Technology (海南科技职业学院), a vocational college in Haikou, Hainan, more than 10 men[19] charged into a dormitory wielding knives around 2:30 am;[20] after attacking the security guard and disabling security cameras, 9 students were injured, 1 seriously.[20] The local men attacked the dorm in an act of revenge and retaliation against college students following conflict the previous day at an off-campus food stall in which 4 students were injured, for a total of 13."

more non-gun mass murder incidents here,
School attacks in China (2010–12) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we get rid of the guns we'll have less shootings but not less murders.

Of course we would have less murders. Not many people are going to want to get up close and personal with a knife. You are promoting a logical fallacy that the void created by the lack of guns will be filled with murders using other tools.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Probably not:

"On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng (郑民生)[7] 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping,"

"another knife-wielding man named Chen Kangbing, 33 (陈康炳)[12] at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher."

On April 29 in Taixing,[8] Jiangsu, unemployed 47-year-old Xu Yuyuan went to Zhongxin Kindergarten[15] and stabbed 28 students and two teachers after stabbing the security guard;[9] most of the Taixing students were 4 years old.[16] The attack was the second in China in just two days.

On April 30, Wang Yonglai used a hammer to cause head injury to preschool children in Weifang,[8] Shandong, then used gasoline to commit suicide by self-immolation."

"An attacker named Wu Huanming (吴环明), 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010;[8] early reports were removed from the internet in China, for fear that mass coverage of such violence can provoke copycat attacks.[8][17] The attacker later committed suicide at his house;"

"On May 18, 2010 at Hainan Institute of Science and Technology (海南科技职业学院), a vocational college in Haikou, Hainan, more than 10 men[19] charged into a dormitory wielding knives around 2:30 am;[20] after attacking the security guard and disabling security cameras, 9 students were injured, 1 seriously.[20] The local men attacked the dorm in an act of revenge and retaliation against college students following conflict the previous day at an off-campus food stall in which 4 students were injured, for a total of 13."

more non-gun mass murder incidents here,
School attacks in China (2010–12) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we get rid of the guns we'll have less shootings but not less murders.

McVey didn't use a gun either. Nor did the 911 hijackers.

Not exactly an equal example. That's like saying if we used nukes we'd win every war like in WW2.

Point is even in societies without guns (for all intents and purposes) they'll just use a knife, or hammer, or something else.

 

[bucs90]

The most gun free places in America are prisons.

The most gun saturated places in America are gun stores, police stations and military bases.

If your daughter were to wander around one of those without her parents present.....which would you prefer?

That answers the question regarding guns and danger.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Probably not:

"On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng (郑民生)[7] 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping,"

"another knife-wielding man named Chen Kangbing, 33 (陈康炳)[12] at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher."

On April 29 in Taixing,[8] Jiangsu, unemployed 47-year-old Xu Yuyuan went to Zhongxin Kindergarten[15] and stabbed 28 students and two teachers after stabbing the security guard;[9] most of the Taixing students were 4 years old.[16] The attack was the second in China in just two days.

On April 30, Wang Yonglai used a hammer to cause head injury to preschool children in Weifang,[8] Shandong, then used gasoline to commit suicide by self-immolation."

"An attacker named Wu Huanming (吴环明), 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010;[8] early reports were removed from the internet in China, for fear that mass coverage of such violence can provoke copycat attacks.[8][17] The attacker later committed suicide at his house;"

"On May 18, 2010 at Hainan Institute of Science and Technology (海南科技职业学院), a vocational college in Haikou, Hainan, more than 10 men[19] charged into a dormitory wielding knives around 2:30 am;[20] after attacking the security guard and disabling security cameras, 9 students were injured, 1 seriously.[20] The local men attacked the dorm in an act of revenge and retaliation against college students following conflict the previous day at an off-campus food stall in which 4 students were injured, for a total of 13."

more non-gun mass murder incidents here,
School attacks in China (2010–12) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we get rid of the guns we'll have less shootings but not less murders.

Of course we would have less murders. Not many people are going to want to get up close and personal with a knife. You are promoting a logical fallacy that the void created by the lack of guns will be filled with murders using other tools.

Isn't a logical fallacy after giving half a dozen examples. Guys in China were mentally ill (as mentioned in full at link) and couldn't get guns being in China. They could get knives and did. That's not a logical fallacy.

 

[Asclepias]

The most gun free places in America are prisons.

The most gun saturated places in America are gun stores, police stations and military bases.

If your daughter were to wander around one of those unsupervised.....which would you prefer?

That answers the question regarding guns and danger.

Another logical fallacy called false equivalence. One place has people that are being punished for breaking the law. The other place has people whos job is to arrest those people.

 

[Asclepias]

Probably not:

"On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng (郑民生)[7] 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping,"

"another knife-wielding man named Chen Kangbing, 33 (陈康炳)[12] at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher."

On April 29 in Taixing,[8] Jiangsu, unemployed 47-year-old Xu Yuyuan went to Zhongxin Kindergarten[15] and stabbed 28 students and two teachers after stabbing the security guard;[9] most of the Taixing students were 4 years old.[16] The attack was the second in China in just two days.

On April 30, Wang Yonglai used a hammer to cause head injury to preschool children in Weifang,[8] Shandong, then used gasoline to commit suicide by self-immolation."

"An attacker named Wu Huanming (吴环明), 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010;[8] early reports were removed from the internet in China, for fear that mass coverage of such violence can provoke copycat attacks.[8][17] The attacker later committed suicide at his house;"

"On May 18, 2010 at Hainan Institute of Science and Technology (海南科技职业学院), a vocational college in Haikou, Hainan, more than 10 men[19] charged into a dormitory wielding knives around 2:30 am;[20] after attacking the security guard and disabling security cameras, 9 students were injured, 1 seriously.[20] The local men attacked the dorm in an act of revenge and retaliation against college students following conflict the previous day at an off-campus food stall in which 4 students were injured, for a total of 13."

more non-gun mass murder incidents here,
School attacks in China (2010–12) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we get rid of the guns we'll have less shootings but not less murders.

Of course we would have less murders. Not many people are going to want to get up close and personal with a knife. You are promoting a logical fallacy that the void created by the lack of guns will be filled with murders using other tools.

Isn't a logical fallacy after giving half a dozen examples.

You have a half dozen examples of a situation where there were no guns? I missed that in your post. Can you point out just one that fits the criteria? Looks like to me you just listed knife attacks and pretended guns didnt exist where those attacks occurred.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Probably not:

"On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng (郑民生)[7] 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping,"

"another knife-wielding man named Chen Kangbing, 33 (陈康炳)[12] at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher."

On April 29 in Taixing,[8] Jiangsu, unemployed 47-year-old Xu Yuyuan went to Zhongxin Kindergarten[15] and stabbed 28 students and two teachers after stabbing the security guard;[9] most of the Taixing students were 4 years old.[16] The attack was the second in China in just two days.

On April 30, Wang Yonglai used a hammer to cause head injury to preschool children in Weifang,[8] Shandong, then used gasoline to commit suicide by self-immolation."

"An attacker named Wu Huanming (吴环明), 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010;[8] early reports were removed from the internet in China, for fear that mass coverage of such violence can provoke copycat attacks.[8][17] The attacker later committed suicide at his house;"

"On May 18, 2010 at Hainan Institute of Science and Technology (海南科技职业学院), a vocational college in Haikou, Hainan, more than 10 men[19] charged into a dormitory wielding knives around 2:30 am;[20] after attacking the security guard and disabling security cameras, 9 students were injured, 1 seriously.[20] The local men attacked the dorm in an act of revenge and retaliation against college students following conflict the previous day at an off-campus food stall in which 4 students were injured, for a total of 13."

more non-gun mass murder incidents here,
School attacks in China (2010–12) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we get rid of the guns we'll have less shootings but not less murders.

Of course we would have less murders. Not many people are going to want to get up close and personal with a knife. You are promoting a logical fallacy that the void created by the lack of guns will be filled with murders using other tools.

Isn't a logical fallacy after giving half a dozen examples.

You have a half dozen examples of a situation where there were no guns? I missed that in your post. Can you point out just one that fits the criteria? Looks like to me you just listed knife attacks and pretended guns didnt exist where those attacks occurred.

You're under the impression China lets its' people own guns?

 

[Asclepias]

Probably not:

"On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng (郑民生)[7] 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping,"

"another knife-wielding man named Chen Kangbing, 33 (陈康炳)[12] at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher."

On April 29 in Taixing,[8] Jiangsu, unemployed 47-year-old Xu Yuyuan went to Zhongxin Kindergarten[15] and stabbed 28 students and two teachers after stabbing the security guard;[9] most of the Taixing students were 4 years old.[16] The attack was the second in China in just two days.

On April 30, Wang Yonglai used a hammer to cause head injury to preschool children in Weifang,[8] Shandong, then used gasoline to commit suicide by self-immolation."

"An attacker named Wu Huanming (吴环明), 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010;[8] early reports were removed from the internet in China, for fear that mass coverage of such violence can provoke copycat attacks.[8][17] The attacker later committed suicide at his house;"

"On May 18, 2010 at Hainan Institute of Science and Technology (海南科技职业学院), a vocational college in Haikou, Hainan, more than 10 men[19] charged into a dormitory wielding knives around 2:30 am;[20] after attacking the security guard and disabling security cameras, 9 students were injured, 1 seriously.[20] The local men attacked the dorm in an act of revenge and retaliation against college students following conflict the previous day at an off-campus food stall in which 4 students were injured, for a total of 13."

more non-gun mass murder incidents here,
School attacks in China (2010–12) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we get rid of the guns we'll have less shootings but not less murders.

Of course we would have less murders. Not many people are going to want to get up close and personal with a knife. You are promoting a logical fallacy that the void created by the lack of guns will be filled with murders using other tools.

Isn't a logical fallacy after giving half a dozen examples.

You have a half dozen examples of a situation where there were no guns? I missed that in your post. Can you point out just one that fits the criteria? Looks like to me you just listed knife attacks and pretended guns didnt exist where those attacks occurred.

You're under the impression China lets its' people own guns?

You're under the impression there are no guns in China?

 

[Syriusly]

Probably not:

"On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng (郑民生)[7] 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping,"

"another knife-wielding man named Chen Kangbing, 33 (陈康炳)[12] at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher."

On April 29 in Taixing,[8] Jiangsu, unemployed 47-year-old Xu Yuyuan went to Zhongxin Kindergarten[15] and stabbed 28 students and two teachers after stabbing the security guard;[9] most of the Taixing students were 4 years old.[16] The attack was the second in China in just two days.

On April 30, Wang Yonglai used a hammer to cause head injury to preschool children in Weifang,[8] Shandong, then used gasoline to commit suicide by self-immolation."

"An attacker named Wu Huanming (吴环明), 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010;[8] early reports were removed from the internet in China, for fear that mass coverage of such violence can provoke copycat attacks.[8][17] The attacker later committed suicide at his house;"

"On May 18, 2010 at Hainan Institute of Science and Technology (海南科技职业学院), a vocational college in Haikou, Hainan, more than 10 men[19] charged into a dormitory wielding knives around 2:30 am;[20] after attacking the security guard and disabling security cameras, 9 students were injured, 1 seriously.[20] The local men attacked the dorm in an act of revenge and retaliation against college students following conflict the previous day at an off-campus food stall in which 4 students were injured, for a total of 13."

more non-gun mass murder incidents here,
School attacks in China (2010–12) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we get rid of the guns we'll have less shootings but not less murders.

Of course not.

Just as if we armed everyone, we wouldn't end all murders either.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Probably not:

"On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng (郑民生)[7] 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping,"

"another knife-wielding man named Chen Kangbing, 33 (陈康炳)[12] at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher."

On April 29 in Taixing,[8] Jiangsu, unemployed 47-year-old Xu Yuyuan went to Zhongxin Kindergarten[15] and stabbed 28 students and two teachers after stabbing the security guard;[9] most of the Taixing students were 4 years old.[16] The attack was the second in China in just two days.

On April 30, Wang Yonglai used a hammer to cause head injury to preschool children in Weifang,[8] Shandong, then used gasoline to commit suicide by self-immolation."

"An attacker named Wu Huanming (吴环明), 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010;[8] early reports were removed from the internet in China, for fear that mass coverage of such violence can provoke copycat attacks.[8][17] The attacker later committed suicide at his house;"

"On May 18, 2010 at Hainan Institute of Science and Technology (海南科技职业学院), a vocational college in Haikou, Hainan, more than 10 men[19] charged into a dormitory wielding knives around 2:30 am;[20] after attacking the security guard and disabling security cameras, 9 students were injured, 1 seriously.[20] The local men attacked the dorm in an act of revenge and retaliation against college students following conflict the previous day at an off-campus food stall in which 4 students were injured, for a total of 13."

more non-gun mass murder incidents here,
School attacks in China (2010–12) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we get rid of the guns we'll have less shootings but not less murders.

McVey didn't use a gun either. Nor did the 911 hijackers.

Not exactly an equal example. That's like saying if we used nukes we'd win every war like in WW2.

Point is even in societies without guns (for all intents and purposes) they'll just use a knife, or hammer, or something else.

What makes you think we couldn't have won every war had we used nukes?

In the 46-page study, which can be read in its entirety here, Kates and Mauser looked at and compared data from the U.S. and parts of Europe to show that stricter laws don’t mean there is less crime. As an example, when looking at “intentional deaths,” or murder, on an international scope, the U.S. falls behind Russia, Estonia, and four other countries, ranking it seventh. More specifically, data shows that in Russia, where guns are banned, the murder rate is significantly higher than in the U.S in comparison. “There is a compound assertion that guns are uniquely available in the United States compared with other modern developed nations, which is why the United States has by far the highest murder rate. Though these assertions have been endlessly repeated, [the latter] is, in fact, false and [the former] is substantially so,” the authors point out, based on their research
The study goes on to say:

…the burden of proof rests on the proponents of the more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death mantra, especially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra. To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world.

But when it comes to examining nations as a whole, the Harvard study suggests otherwise. “If more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death, areas within nations with higher gun ownership should in general have more murders than those with less gun ownership in a similar area. But, in fact, the reverse pattern prevails,” the authors wrote.


Harvard Gun Study Claims Banning Weapons Doesn't Decrease Violence

 

[Pogo]

Probably not:

"On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng (郑民生)[7] 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping,"

"another knife-wielding man named Chen Kangbing, 33 (陈康炳)[12] at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher."

On April 29 in Taixing,[8] Jiangsu, unemployed 47-year-old Xu Yuyuan went to Zhongxin Kindergarten[15] and stabbed 28 students and two teachers after stabbing the security guard;[9] most of the Taixing students were 4 years old.[16] The attack was the second in China in just two days.

On April 30, Wang Yonglai used a hammer to cause head injury to preschool children in Weifang,[8] Shandong, then used gasoline to commit suicide by self-immolation."

"An attacker named Wu Huanming (吴环明), 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010;[8] early reports were removed from the internet in China, for fear that mass coverage of such violence can provoke copycat attacks.[8][17] The attacker later committed suicide at his house;"

"On May 18, 2010 at Hainan Institute of Science and Technology (海南科技职业学院), a vocational college in Haikou, Hainan, more than 10 men[19] charged into a dormitory wielding knives around 2:30 am;[20] after attacking the security guard and disabling security cameras, 9 students were injured, 1 seriously.[20] The local men attacked the dorm in an act of revenge and retaliation against college students following conflict the previous day at an off-campus food stall in which 4 students were injured, for a total of 13."

more non-gun mass murder incidents here,
School attacks in China (2010–12) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If we get rid of the guns we'll have less shootings but not less murders.

Damn, when will you people get it right... FEWER murders, not "less".

We've already opened the discourse in another thread about the difference between murder and mass slaying -- a vital distinction that seems to still be eluding you and flaws this entire question.

But as far as guns, understanding the question is entirely theoretical since "getting rid of all the guns" is an impossibility --- guns make it a lot easier and quicker. You don't need to go round up explosives and rent a truck, you don't need to coordinate teams of hijackers who can fly planes; you don't need to set up gasoline or bombs or poisons. You just grab it and go. If you're feeling suicidal in the moment, then a moment is all you need. Bam. Guns are the ultimate instant gratification.

When Jovan Belcher, in whatever state of mind outside substances brought him to, slaughtered his wife and then blew his own brains out in front of his Kansas City Chiefs coaches, he needed only a moment to pick up the gun. Time for reflection and reconsideration wasn't in the mix.

So for that reason alone, yes the theoretical elimination of guns probably would result in FEWER murders, as well as Fewer mass slayings. The gun being the one thing they usually have in common. It doesn't cause or motivate the act, but it makes it a lot more efficient and requires one hell of a lot less planning.

That is after all the entire reason firearms were invented in the first place.


And incidentally -- these stabbing incidents in China in your OP.... as well as McVeigh, as well as 9/11 ..... ALL of them, every single one, committed by men.

From the reference article in one of your Chinese incidents:

>> Authorities said Zheng, 42, carried out the attack because he was frustrated at "failures in his romantic life," <<
​

--- which goes right back to, reflects, and reaffirms, everything I was saying in the other thread.

Time to wake up.