If you disparage the Tea Partiers based on a few individuals how do you treat muslims

[Procrustes Stretched]

Do you also think that all muslims are represented by a few individual muslim terrorists?


If you are consistent in how you analyize individuals and groups I would be led to beleive that due to your views on all tea partiers being racist right wing obama hating republicans that you would also hold the view that all muslims are Koran bastardizing, suicide bombing of innocents, terrorists.


What say you?

only in your mind is this a true statement: "your views on all tea partiers being racist right wing obama hating republicans "

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I distrust members of both groups... almost equally.

I distrust people in groups.

 

[xotoxi]

This is the ONLY reason why I disparage Tea Partiers:

Not enough of them admit that they were wrong not starting their movement when things were getting out of control far before Obama took over.

And until they do, I will continue to consider it a reactionary partisan movement. When I see PROOF that they continue the movement during a Republican administration, then I will have respect for them.

I have never considered the Tea Party to be a racist organization. I consider it a partisan organization.

I do understand that "Why are they only mad now when bush was doing stupid economic crap too" mentality. That has merit to it. I would point you to my response to Zona for some of the reason many of the people who are now active became active so late in the game. (not including me as i've been crabby @ Bush since he cut taxes while increasing spending way back at the beginning of his presidency)

I respect any tea party member who made noise BEFORE Obama took office. If they were complaining back then and now, they are real. The rest are tea baggers.

While I fit under your description of a respectable tea party member you have to realize that most americans didn't pay attention till the very end of bush's term when he signed TARP.

That is really what woke people up and you should think of that fact before jumping to conclusions about some of the people in the tea parties.

Let's hope that the Tea Party continues well into the future...well after Republicans take over. I think it is a good thing to have checks and balances. It keeps the people in Washington on their toes.

However, I am afraid that as soon as any Republican is elected, you will not hear anything from the Tea Party until a democrat is again elected.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

This is the ONLY reason why I disparage Tea Partiers:

Not enough of them admit that they were wrong not starting their movement when things were getting out of control far before Obama took over.

And until they do, I will continue to consider it a reactionary partisan movement. When I see PROOF that they continue the movement during a Republican administration, then I will have respect for them.

I have never considered the Tea Party to be a racist organization. I consider it a partisan organization.

I do understand that "Why are they only mad now when bush was doing stupid economic crap too" mentality. That has merit to it. I would point you to my response to Zona for some of the reason many of the people who are now active became active so late in the game. (not including me as i've been crabby @ Bush since he cut taxes while increasing spending way back at the beginning of his presidency)

While I fit under your description of a respectable tea party member you have to realize that most americans didn't pay attention till the very end of bush's term when he signed TARP.

That is really what woke people up and you should think of that fact before jumping to conclusions about some of the people in the tea parties.

Let's hope that the Tea Party continues well into the future...well after Republicans take over. I think it is a good thing to have checks and balances. It keeps the people in Washington on their toes.

However, I am afraid that as soon as any Republican is elected, you will not hear anything from the Tea Party until a democrat is again elected.

You and me both on that. If they do dissapear if/after a republican gets elected I'll bow my head and let you say "Told you so"

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Do you also think that all muslims are represented by a few individual muslim terrorists?

no

do you?

why do people who are all hysterical about a Mosque in NYC do this?

Wow unity for dante and pilgrim I dont feel that either broadbrush is representative of their respective "Groups" as a whole.

Some of the people who are against the mosque at NYC are the very same people who think "All muslims are terrorists" but the majority of them are not. I have a long thread about the mosque situation if you wanna talk about that with me

 

[edthecynic]

I do understand that "Why are they only mad now when bush was doing stupid economic crap too" mentality. That has merit to it. I would point you to my response to Zona for some of the reason many of the people who are now active became active so late in the game. (not including me as i've been crabby @ Bush since he cut taxes while increasing spending way back at the beginning of his presidency)

Let's hope that the Tea Party continues well into the future...well after Republicans take over. I think it is a good thing to have checks and balances. It keeps the people in Washington on their toes.

However, I am afraid that as soon as any Republican is elected, you will not hear anything from the Tea Party until a democrat is again elected.

You and me both on that. If they do dissapear if/after a republican gets elected I'll bow my head and let you say "Told you so"

Oh come on now! You know from past history there is no IF about it.

While 9/11 Reagan and Bush I were quadrupling the deficit of all the presidents before them, deficits didn't matter. Then when Clinton was elected suddenly deficits were the most important thing on Earth. The so called "Deficit Hawks" were the Clinton era equivalent of the Tea Party. Once Bush II was elected deficits no longer mattered until Obama was elected.

How many times does history have to repeat itself before CON$ learn from it???????

'I don't worry about the deficit. It's big enough to take care of itself.'
Ronald Reagan

"Reagan proved deficits don't matter."
Dick Cheney

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Muslims are not represented by their leaders as a political party in a republic. I hear the Right constantly accusing the Muslims for not denouncing radical, extremist jihadists.

I never hear the Right accusing Christians for not denouncing radical, extremist Christians (like abortion clinic bombers, Timothy McVeigh, etc.). Probably because Christianity isn't a political party which represents its followers in a republic.

The Tea Party is a political organization which represents the interests of its supporters. Some of those supporters are racist. Why don't I hear the Tea Party denouncing racism? If it doesn't support it, then why does it harbor racists and not denounce racism?

 

[Trajan]

edthecynic

Oh come on now! You know from past history there is no IF about it.

While 9/11 Reagan and Bush I were quadrupling the deficit of all the presidents before them, deficits didn't matter. Then when Clinton was elected suddenly deficits were the most important thing on Earth. The so called "Deficit Hawks" were the Clinton era equivalent of the Tea Party. Once Bush II was elected deficits no longer mattered until Obama was elected.

How many times does history have to repeat itself before CON$ learn from it???????

I'd answer that but your heaping spoonfuls of mischaracterization(s) etc. preclude a worthwhile sensible answer...ttfn.

 

[bodecea]

Do you also think that all muslims are represented by a few individual muslim terrorists?


If you are consistent in how you analyize individuals and groups I would be led to beleive that due to your views on all tea partiers being racist right wing obama hating republicans that you would also hold the view that all muslims are Koran bastardizing, suicide bombing of innocents, terrorists.


What say you?

You'll take the left's double standards when you pry them from their dead, cold fingers.

Would you be saying that the Left had sole ownership of "double standards"?

 

[xotoxi]

I do understand that "Why are they only mad now when bush was doing stupid economic crap too" mentality. That has merit to it. I would point you to my response to Zona for some of the reason many of the people who are now active became active so late in the game. (not including me as i've been crabby @ Bush since he cut taxes while increasing spending way back at the beginning of his presidency)

Let's hope that the Tea Party continues well into the future...well after Republicans take over. I think it is a good thing to have checks and balances. It keeps the people in Washington on their toes.

However, I am afraid that as soon as any Republican is elected, you will not hear anything from the Tea Party until a democrat is again elected.

You and me both on that. If they do dissapear if/after a republican gets elected I'll bow my head and let you say "Told you so"

I never say I "told you so"...people that say that are asses.

I am more likely to use someone else's mistake as a lesson.

 

[xotoxi]

Do you also think that all muslims are represented by a few individual muslim terrorists?


If you are consistent in how you analyize individuals and groups I would be led to beleive that due to your views on all tea partiers being racist right wing obama hating republicans that you would also hold the view that all muslims are Koran bastardizing, suicide bombing of innocents, terrorists.


What say you?

You'll take the left's double standards when you pry them from their dead, cold fingers.

Would you be saying that the Left had sole ownership of "double standards"?

What he is saying is that people on the right like to steal things from corpses.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

xotoxi

@ Ed: I actually supported clinton and his economic policies even after his lying about his blowjob so I'm not sure what your getting at.

@ colorado, let me go weld something and i'll respond....10 min.

 

[edthecynic]

xotoxi

@ Ed: I actually supported clinton and his economic policies even after his lying about his blowjob so I'm not sure what your getting at.

@ colorado, let me go weld something and i'll respond....10 min.

The patented CON$ervative dumb act!

I was getting at the fact that the deficit only seems to matter when Dems are president, otherwise Deficit Hawks or Teabaggers or whatever they call themselves at the time are deathly silent, so it will be no surprise that deficits will no longer matter if a Republican becomes president. It has been a Republican strategy to run up deficits in order to "starve the welfare state" since St Ronnie.
Get it now?

July 6, 2010
RUSH: It is said of Reagan -- I think it's true to a certain extent -- Reagan decided to starve the welfare state by creating deficits and spending

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Muslims are not represented by their leaders as a political party in a republic. I hear the Right constantly accusing the Muslims for not denouncing radical, extremist jihadists.

I never hear the Right accusing Christians for not denouncing radical, extremist Christians (like abortion clinic bombers, Timothy McVeigh, etc.). Probably because Christianity isn't a political party which represents its followers in a republic.

The Tea Party is a political organization which represents the interests of its supporters. Some of those supporters are racist. Why don't I hear the Tea Party denouncing racism? If it doesn't support it, then why does it harbor racists and not denounce racism?

Ok now mind you this thread is my thread and you say you haven't heard teapartiers denouncing racism. One example of this can be found right here http://www.usmessageboard.com/tea-p...-hell-away-from-us-we-dont-want-you-here.html

Here is another example from a rally

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYfmShJe5MA&p=B708717B6A31B998&playnext=1&index=33]YouTube - Proof That The TEA Party IS NOT Racist![/ame]

You also seem to be under the assumption that their are more racists in the tea parties than there are in either the democrat or republican parties. I feel this is not the case. I believe there are as many racists in the tea parties, as a percentage, as there are in both major political parties (if you dont see the racism in the republican and democrat parties I'm not sure how you see it in the tea party).

In addition, the media has willingly mislabelled teapartiers as racist in a concerted effort to discredit them. At least the members of the media who belong to the "journo list" http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...bout-accusing-the-right-of-being-racists.html

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

xotoxi

@ Ed: I actually supported Clinton and his economic policies even after his lying about his blow-job so I'm not sure what your getting at.

@ colorado, let me go weld something and i'll respond....10 min.

The patented CON$ervative dumb act!

I was getting at the fact that the deficit only seems to matter when Dems are president, otherwise Deficit Hawks or Teabaggers or whatever they call themselves at the time are deathly silent, so it will be no surprise that deficits will no longer matter if a Republican becomes president. It has been a Republican strategy to run up deficits in order to "starve the welfare state" since St Ronnie.
Get it now?

July 6, 2010
RUSH: It is said of Reagan -- I think it's true to a certain extent -- Reagan decided to starve the welfare state by creating deficits and spending

I just told you I didn't complain about Clinton's economic policies during or after his presidency hence your comments not applying to me, the person you are responding to. It would be pretty hard to complain about the deficit under Clinton considering he balanced his budget.

Quoting Rush Limbaugh, a guy I don't listen to, is also very ineffective when responding to me.

Do you understand why I'm not sure what your getting at yet? If not my confusion stems from the fact that your responses have no relation to the topic we are discussing.

EDIT: I'm surprised you responded to this instead of my response from a page or two back.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Ok now mind you this thread is my thread and you say you haven't heard teapartiers denouncing racism. One example of this can be found right here http://www.usmessageboard.com/tea-p...-hell-away-from-us-we-dont-want-you-here.html

Here is another example from a rally

YouTube - Proof That The TEA Party IS NOT Racist!

You also seem to be under the assumption that their are more racists in the tea parties than there are in either the democrat or republican parties. I feel this is not the case. I believe there are as many racists in the tea parties, as a percentage, as there are in both major political parties (if you dont see the racism in the republican and democrat parties I'm not sure how you see it in the tea party).

In addition, the media has willingly mislabelled teapartiers as racist in a concerted effort to discredit them. At least the members of the media who belong to the "journo list" http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...bout-accusing-the-right-of-being-racists.html

Thanks for the civil response, PLYMCO.

I fully believe that the Tea Party doesn't support racism. I fully believe that many Tea Partiers aren't racist and even denounce it (as your clip above shows). And I think that's great.

What I don't see are Tea Party leaders denouncing racism instead of only saying that the Tea Party "can't be racist" when there ARE, undoubtedly, racists among Tea Party supporters. And, I can say the same thing about more than a few GOP leaders.

I highly doubt there are white supremacists among the ranks of the Dems. Black and Hispanic "racists" for sure - but I put quotes around it because it has more to do with a resentment due to treatment they or their families and friends have received from white people and the way our country enables whites and sorta-kinda wants to help minorities but really leaves them behind. Same for native Americans, etc. But, the Dems actively pursue protections and increasing opportunities for minorities unlike the GOP and TP who, for some reason, think white racism is over because we elected a black President - I actually heard Michelle Bachman say that by the way.

Now, don't me wrong. I can't stand Dems. Spineless, corrupt, no clear focus, lots of douche bags who represent them. But I CAN NOT abide racism and the GOP and TP are harbors for white supremacists, neo-nazis, etc. and are just as corrupt as the Dems in my opinion, and they have even more douche bag leaders than the Dems, IMO (i.e. Reagan, Bush Jr., Cheney, Quayle, and especially Palin).

Were I a TP leader I would come right out and say that if you're a racist then YOU aren't a Tea Partier - you're on your own; go vote for David Duke (who gets some Tea Partier support, if just from the fringe).

I also don't see a lot of minorities in the GOP or Tea Party. Now why would that be? The media? I don't think so. I think its because neither of those parties truly represent minority interests. When the Dems hold rallies, there are a good number of people of every race, religion, sexual orientation, age, social class, etc. When the GOP or Tea Party hold rallies the vast, overwhelming majority are middle-aged, white Christians. Those parties are against affirmative action, same-sex marriage, the ACLU, atheism, evolution, sexual equality, a woman's choice, the NAACP, and other policies, programs, and organizations set up to protect minorities, women, the poor, the elderly, the handicapped, veterans, and those with less opportunity. The first thing President Obama passed was the Equal Pay for Equal Work Act for women. Can that be anything but a good thing? The Dems have helped veterans while the GOP has historically cut funding to the VA.

Its as if some Democrats are actually trying to help those who need it most while the GOP and Tea Party just want to help those who need it least and ignore those who need it most because of money. It may not be that way, but it seems like it.

By the way, what were you welding?

 

[midcan5]

sincerest.

Personally I criticize the entire tea party movement, but not for racism alone.

oh not just for racism, I see, man am I relieved. you've just fallen into parody...oh well.

Since I used no quotes, please allow poetic license, oh, and the surest sign of a wingnut is attention to grammar rather than an intelligent well argued response.



"Thought is a process of exaggeration. The refusal to exaggerate is not infrequently an alibi for the disinclination to think or praise." Eric Hoffer

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Do you also think that all muslims are represented by a few individual muslim terrorists?


If you are consistent in how you analyize individuals and groups I would be led to beleive that due to your views on all tea partiers being racist right wing obama hating republicans that you would also hold the view that all muslims are Koran bastardizing, suicide bombing of innocents, terrorists.


What say you?

You'll take the left's double standards when you pry them from their dead, cold fingers.

Would you be saying that the Left had sole ownership of "double standards"?

dave's an idiot. act irrational and maybe he will make sense. act rationally and you are wasting your time

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

xotoxi

@ Ed: I actually supported clinton and his economic policies even after his lying about his blowjob so I'm not sure what your getting at.

@ colorado, let me go weld something and i'll respond....10 min.

"even after his lying about his blowjob" - crime of the century according to right wing dogma



Why would a man's lying about sex and extramarital affairs during a political witch hunt alter anyone's support of his economic policies?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Ok now mind you this thread is my thread and you say you haven't heard teapartiers denouncing racism. One example of this can be found right here http://www.usmessageboard.com/tea-p...-hell-away-from-us-we-dont-want-you-here.html

Here is another example from a rally

YouTube - Proof That The TEA Party IS NOT Racist!

You also seem to be under the assumption that their are more racists in the tea parties than there are in either the democrat or republican parties. I feel this is not the case. I believe there are as many racists in the tea parties, as a percentage, as there are in both major political parties (if you dont see the racism in the republican and democrat parties I'm not sure how you see it in the tea party).

In addition, the media has willingly mislabelled teapartiers as racist in a concerted effort to discredit them. At least the members of the media who belong to the "journo list" http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...bout-accusing-the-right-of-being-racists.html

Thanks for the civil response, PLYMCO.

I fully believe that the Tea Party doesn't support racism. I fully believe that many Tea Partiers aren't racist and even denounce it (as your clip above shows). And I think that's great.

What I don't see are Tea Party leaders denouncing racism instead of only saying that the Tea Party "can't be racist" when there ARE, undoubtedly, racists among Tea Party supporters. And, I can say the same thing about more than a few GOP leaders.

I highly doubt there are white supremacists among the ranks of the Dems. Black and Hispanic "racists" for sure - but I put quotes around it because it has more to do with a resentment due to treatment they or their families and friends have received from white people and the way our country enables whites and sorta-kinda wants to help minorities but really leaves them behind. Same for native Americans, etc. But, the Dems actively pursue protections and increasing opportunities for minorities unlike the GOP and TP who, for some reason, think white racism is over because we elected a black President - I actually heard Michelle Bachman say that by the way.

Now, don't me wrong. I can't stand Dems. Spineless, corrupt, no clear focus, lots of douche bags who represent them. But I CAN NOT abide racism and the GOP and TP are harbors for white supremacists, neo-nazis, etc. and are just as corrupt as the Dems in my opinion, and they have even more douche bag leaders than the Dems, IMO (i.e. Reagan, Bush Jr., Cheney, Quayle, and especially Palin).

Were I a TP leader I would come right out and say that if you're a racist then YOU aren't a Tea Partier - you're on your own; go vote for David Duke (who gets some Tea Partier support, if just from the fringe).

I also don't see a lot of minorities in the GOP or Tea Party. Now why would that be? The media? I don't think so. I think its because neither of those parties truly represent minority interests. When the Dems hold rallies, there are a good number of people of every race, religion, sexual orientation, age, social class, etc. When the GOP or Tea Party hold rallies the vast, overwhelming majority are middle-aged, white Christians. Those parties are against affirmative action, same-sex marriage, the ACLU, atheism, evolution, sexual equality, a woman's choice, the NAACP, and other policies, programs, and organizations set up to protect minorities, women, the poor, the elderly, the handicapped, veterans, and those with less opportunity. The first thing President Obama passed was the Equal Pay for Equal Work Act for women. Can that be anything but a good thing? The Dems have helped veterans while the GOP has historically cut funding to the VA.

Its as if some Democrats are actually trying to help those who need it most while the GOP and Tea Party just want to help those who need it least and ignore those who need it most because of money. It may not be that way, but it seems like it.

By the way, what were you welding?

I just welded a new catalytic converter into a lady's car. She said I saved her $750.00 over the dealer's estimate.

I enjoyed reading your response and you do have some valid points in there.

One thing I would like to clarify is that when I said racists in the democrat party I wasn't thinking of white supremists and I definately think its a tiny minority of democrats.

One thing I would like to answer is that I think you dont see many minorities speaking out in the republican party because, throughout recent history (Clarence Thomas being one of the most blatant examples) they have been routinely disparaged, disrespected, and discriminated against for doing so.

I have been to 2 few tea party rallies. At the one in Hyannis we had many hispanic members at the rotary. The one in boston I went to in august had a lot of different people from all sorts of backgrounds. Even so there is still a larger percentage of white people at these rallies, around the nation, then there are in the general population so i understand the perception that its mostly white people at the rallies.