If wind and solare power are so great then why is Germany so desperate for coal ?

[polarbear]

...and cut down ancient forests to mine for coal:
German court: Ancient forest can be cleared for coal mine
BERLIN (AP) — A court in western Germany says an ancient forest near the Belgian border can be chopped down to make way for a coal strip mine. Cologne's administrative court ruled Friday against a legal complaint brought by the environmental group BUND that wanted to halt the clearance of much of the Hambach forest

 

[frigidweirdo]

...and cut down ancient forests to mine for coal:
German court: Ancient forest can be cleared for coal mine
BERLIN (AP) — A court in western Germany says an ancient forest near the Belgian border can be chopped down to make way for a coal strip mine. Cologne's administrative court ruled Friday against a legal complaint brought by the environmental group BUND that wanted to halt the clearance of much of the Hambach forest

Do you know of anywhere which has managed to get their resource needs totally from renewable yet?

It's a process.

 

[Old Rocks]

Germany is a small country, unlike the USA and China. They have no vast areas with 300 or more sunny days a year. They have no vast plains with a near constant wind, such as we see from Texas to the Canadian border. All of Germany is north of the 47th and extends almost to the 55th. So solar does not have the efficiency that it does in most of the US. In fact, all of Oregon is south of Germany.

 

[Old Rocks]

Postcards from Germany: an energy revolution, and how it happened
In recent months, a delegation from the Party, in partnership with FES, investigated how co-operative and mutual approaches are key to Germany’s economic success. So what are the lessons for the UK? In the first of a two part series, Communications Officer Ben West looks at what we can learn from Germany's community energy revolution.

Postcards from Germany: an energy revolution, and how it happened

Germany is developing some very good ideas concerning energy infrastructure and citizen participation.

 

[Old Rocks]

According to leaked plans from the German federal network agency, published on Tuesday in the Süddeutsche Zeitung, the government has had to halve its original target for expanding its windfarms in the gale-beaten northern flatlands because it cannot extend its power grid quickly enough to the energy-hungry south.

When Angela Merkel announced in May 2011 that Germany would seek to phase out its fleet of nuclear reactors by 2022, questions arose as to whether renewable sources of energy, such as wind or solar, could grow quickly enough to meet the requirements of German industry.

Yet five years later, windfarms in the northernmost states are producing so much energy that in some cases the state has to pay renewable energy companies to switch off their turbines to stop congesting the power grid.

In theory, the manufacturing sector in southern states like Bavaria or Baden-Württemberg would be supplied with green energy from the north. But plans for an ambitious north-south “energy highway” between Schleswig-Holstein and Bavaria have stalled, due in part to local protests against proposed “monster pylons”.

Revised plans for more costly underground cabling were signed off last October, but the project now runs approximately a year and a half behind its original schedule, leaving Germany’s energy infrastructure lop-sided.

In 2015, northern Germany produced 4,100 gigawatt hours in excess energy which couldn’t been transported to the south – enough, in theory, to supply 1.2 million households with energy for a year.

Germany takes steps to roll back renewable energy revolution

Texas had a similiar problem, and solved it. The US has a very large problem because the best wind and solar areas do not have grids. In a heavily populated nation such as Germany, putting in a new grid is even more complex.

 

[skookerasbil]

LOL...the German people found out several years ago that the politicians never told them about the huge costs of building transmission lines. This is something the advocates of renewables NEVER tell you about.

http://www.theenergycollective.com/barrybrook/201991/counting-hidden-costs-energy

https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/green-energy-bust-in-germany

Oh..........and German import of coal BOOMING!!!!!!!!!!!



https://www.rt.com/business/232135-germany-coal-imports-russia-2014/


Coal production up far higher than wind or solar in recent years >>>

http://www.theenergycollective.com/robertwilson190/328841/why-germanys-nuclear-phase-out-leading-more-coal-burning


Don't believe any of the hoooey in here!!





Who's not winning????

 

[Windparadox]

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This is a result of poor planning by those in charge. No one is talking getting rig of any of the renewable sources. It's not a big deal with the Germans, only the republican thralls in the US.

 

[skookerasbil]

`
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This is a result of poor planning by those in charge. No one is talking getting rig of any of the renewable sources. It's not a big deal with the Germans, only the republican thralls in the US.

Poor planning? Dang...........talk about bubble thinking!!!

It always comes down to costs sweets.........politicians like to keep their jobs!! German's opening up electric bills that have skyrocketed due to high costs associated with renewable energy leads to public policy very friendly to cheaper energy costs. Like coal.........German now in the midst of building 20 new coal plants by 2020 >>

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-06-26/germany-s-new-coal-plants-push-power-glut-to-4-year-high

 

[Windparadox]

Poor planning? Dang...........talk about bubble thinking!!!It always comes down to costs sweets.........politicians like to keep their jobs!! German's opening up electric bills that have skyrocketed due to high costs associated with renewable energy leads to public policy very friendly to cheaper energy costs. Like coal.........German now in the midst of building 20 new coal plants by 2020 >>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-06-26/germany-s-new-coal-plants-push-power-glut-to-4-year-high

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Sorry bunky but if you'll read beyond just your one news article, Germany never intended on going "coal free" They wanted to phase out nuclear power first. Read.. It pays to be informed.

Germany and coal

On the Road to Green Energy, Germany Detours on Dirty Coal

Germany’s last new coal plant

 

[gipper]

Poor planning? Dang...........talk about bubble thinking!!!It always comes down to costs sweets.........politicians like to keep their jobs!! German's opening up electric bills that have skyrocketed due to high costs associated with renewable energy leads to public policy very friendly to cheaper energy costs. Like coal.........German now in the midst of building 20 new coal plants by 2020 >>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-06-26/germany-s-new-coal-plants-push-power-glut-to-4-year-high

`
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Sorry bunky but if you'll read beyond just your one news article, Germany never intended on going "coal free" They wanted to phase out nuclear power first. Read.. It pays to be informed.

Germany and coal

On the Road to Green Energy, Germany Detours on Dirty Coal

Germany’s last new coal plant

Germany CAN"T go coal free, since there are no viable alternatives at the moment.

Are we going around in circles....yet?

 

[skookerasbil]

Poor planning? Dang...........talk about bubble thinking!!!It always comes down to costs sweets.........politicians like to keep their jobs!! German's opening up electric bills that have skyrocketed due to high costs associated with renewable energy leads to public policy very friendly to cheaper energy costs. Like coal.........German now in the midst of building 20 new coal plants by 2020 >>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-06-26/germany-s-new-coal-plants-push-power-glut-to-4-year-high

`
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Sorry bunky but if you'll read beyond just your one news article, Germany never intended on going "coal free" They wanted to phase out nuclear power first. Read.. It pays to be informed.

Germany and coal

On the Road to Green Energy, Germany Detours on Dirty Coal

Germany’s last new coal plant

Whatever you say sweets!!!

"At one point this month renewable energy sources briefly supplied close to 90 percent of the power on Germany’s electric grid. But that doesn’t mean the world’s fourth-largest economy is close to being run on zero-carbon electricity. In fact, Germany is giving the rest of the world a lesson in just how much can go wrong when you try to reduce carbon emissions solely by installing lots of wind and solar."

Loading up on wind and solar is causing new problems for Germany

 

[skookerasbil]

Poor planning? Dang...........talk about bubble thinking!!!It always comes down to costs sweets.........politicians like to keep their jobs!! German's opening up electric bills that have skyrocketed due to high costs associated with renewable energy leads to public policy very friendly to cheaper energy costs. Like coal.........German now in the midst of building 20 new coal plants by 2020 >>https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-06-26/germany-s-new-coal-plants-push-power-glut-to-4-year-high

`
`
Sorry bunky but if you'll read beyond just your one news article, Germany never intended on going "coal free" They wanted to phase out nuclear power first. Read.. It pays to be informed.

Germany and coal

On the Road to Green Energy, Germany Detours on Dirty Coal

Germany’s last new coal plant

Germany CAN"T go coal free, since there are no viable alternatives at the moment.

Are we going around in circles....yet?

Still a lot of unicorn chasers out there..............

 

[Windparadox]

Whatever you say sweets!!!"At one point this month renewable energy sources briefly supplied close to 90 percent of the power on Germany’s electric grid. But that doesn’t mean the world’s fourth-largest economy is close to being run on zero-carbon electricity. In fact, Germany is giving the rest of the world a lesson in just how much can go wrong when you try to reduce carbon emissions solely by installing lots of wind and solar."Loading up on wind and solar is causing new problems for Germany

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Once again, sorry. Keep looking for more articles that reflect your ideology....Good Luck!

 

[Old Rocks]

1. Wind & Solar Are Cheaper (Without Subsidies) Than Dirty Energy
The first point is the very basic fact that new wind power and/or solar power plants are typically cheaper than new coal, natural gas, or nuclear power plants — even without any governmental support for solar or wind.

Not only are they typically cheaper — they’re much cheaper in many cases.

https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine...nergy-costs-wind-energy-costs-LCOE-Lazard.png

Not only cheaper, but, as the grid scale batteries come on line, 24/7. No rail lines or pipelines needed. No externalities paid for by we the taxpayer.

 

[leftwinger]

Baterries: take a lot of coal to produce or "re-cycle".

When Hot: wind don't blow. Need coal for AC.
When Cold: sun don't shine. Solar out.
It takes a village......full of Tesla (coal charged).
Can't have cold muslims now can they?
How do they fire the ovens? chuckling.....

Anything else? You're welcome in advance.

 

[Old Rocks]

Baterries: take a lot of coal to produce or "re-cycle".

When Hot: wind don't blow. Need coal for AC.
When Cold: sun don't shine. Solar out.
It takes a village......full of Tesla (coal charged).
Can't have cold muslims now can they?

Anthing else? You're welcome in advance.

Fucking dumb. They don't care where the electricity comes from for manufacturing batteries. It can come from solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, waves, natural gas, or coal. With the grid scale batteries, power will be 24/7 from the renewables. And what the hell do you mean, when it's cold the sun doesn't shine? Never been out on a bright sunshine day in 0 weather? And what the hell do Muslims have to do with the efficacy of renewables? You should lay off the sauce this early in the morning.

 

[skookerasbil]

Whatever you say sweets!!!"At one point this month renewable energy sources briefly supplied close to 90 percent of the power on Germany’s electric grid. But that doesn’t mean the world’s fourth-largest economy is close to being run on zero-carbon electricity. In fact, Germany is giving the rest of the world a lesson in just how much can go wrong when you try to reduce carbon emissions solely by installing lots of wind and solar."Loading up on wind and solar is causing new problems for Germany

`
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Once again, sorry. Keep looking for more articles that reflect your ideology....Good Luck!

Hey.........I'm not the one saying decades from now, renewable energy will still be a joke. That was President Obama's Energy Information Agency from 2016 that said it >>>

http://naturalgasnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/eia-aeo2014-forecast-512x384.png


Costs have never mattered to progressives. Thankfully for the rest of us, they do matter.

 

[Old Rocks]

That is the prediction of the people pushing natural gas. We shall see what the reality brings. In the meantime;

Don’t Believe the (Natural Gas & Anti-Clean-Energy) Hype

Natural Gas Filling the Gap? Not Really..
Now, a lot of folks will tell you with complete conviction that it’s primarily natural gas replacing coal, due to natural gas’s (artificially) low price these days. A lot of people will tell you this. But guess what — in 2011, renewable energy increased its share of the energy generation pie much more than natural gas did. Here are some 2011 stats (again, actually from the EIA’s own March 2012 monthly report):

• Coal decreased 113,025,000 MWH in 2011 (1,847,290K in 2010 to 1,724,265K in 2011)
• Nuclear decreased 16,743,000 MWh in 2011 (806,968K in 2010 to 790,225K in 2011)
• Natural gas increased 28,898,000 MWh in 2011 (987,697K in 2010 to 1,016,595K in 2011)
• Renewable energy increased 92,791,000 MWh in 2011 (427,276K in 2010 to 520,067K in 2011)

In other words, more than 3 times as much renewable energy generation was added (net) compared to natural gas generation! (And remember, there are 3 reasons natural gas won’t be so cheap and competitive with clean energy for long.)

Now, to get even more absurd, this same report predicts that renewable energy will account for 16% of US energy generation in 2035… despite the country already being at 12.6% in 2011 and having an annual growth rate of over 20%. Crazy. Again, does this remind you of something?

And that was 2011, six years later, the figures are even more lopsided. LOL

 

[Billy_Bob]

1. Wind & Solar Are Cheaper (Without Subsidies) Than Dirty Energy
The first point is the very basic fact that new wind power and/or solar power plants are typically cheaper than new coal, natural gas, or nuclear power plants — even without any governmental support for solar or wind.

Not only are they typically cheaper — they’re much cheaper in many cases.

https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine...nergy-costs-wind-energy-costs-LCOE-Lazard.png

Not only cheaper, but, as the grid scale batteries come on line, 24/7. No rail lines or pipelines needed. No externalities paid for by we the taxpayer.

Your study ignores the cost of coal fired plants that must run 24/7/365 to cover shortages in power... What a load of OLD FRAUD BULL SHIT! Old Fraud cherry picking AGAIN to create a false narrative... Good thing some of us have brains to expose this crap..

 

[Old Rocks]

They are shutting down the coal plants and going to gas for backup at present. Coal is far too expensive in construction and maintenance compared to gas and the renewables. As the grid scale batteries come online, the need for the backup will vanish, and gas, in a few decades, will go the way of coal.