If Trump Really Wants To Be POTUS

You haven't asked a question, I have. I'll do it again;

How would reducing costs for business and increase spending in the economy while controlling cost would cause a depression.


SHOW US THE FUCKING NUMBERS YOU USELESS IGNORANT ****... Seriously.

Today = 10$ an hour

The Day After Tomorrow = You are made King of America and you stop all price increases, you also bump min wage to 23$ an hour.

Show us with all your tax bullshit jargon how a company will "save" while paying 130% more (actual) dollars per employee.

I don't know about you, but if I knew my expenses wouldn't increase, I wouldn't have to save as much for a rainy day.
I would eat out marginally more than I do so at the moment.
I would fill my 3 gas tank more often.
I would buy more products overall.
How would this not keep the economy going.

Price increases are generally attributed to unions and poor civil management.
The average person who, for years now, has NOT been compensated for outstanding work, would NOT feel the difference.
The upper echelon, who has been abusing their work force for some 7 years now, would know what's it's like to not be rewarded.


Look man, prices go up for many reasons, one is because of lack of available materials.

If I make something, and I order a "unit" of something from somewhere to make this product...

But this unit I need finds itself in short supply suddenly due to (the time of year, natural disaster, more demand for this part, whatever)

Naturally the cost of that part I need goes what? That's right, the price of me buying this part goes up.

Now, because the price goes up I naturally look around for other options that achieve the same goal.

Other options that once were more costly are now equal or *shocking breath* cheaper than the old unit I used to buy.

Now I buy my new and different unit (that works for my needs) from someone else!

Others do the same thing!

Over time the old part is available again for a cheaper price because of many variables!

Would you like me to go over what these variables could be?


Knowing that you won't understand any of this makes me sad... I want to keep going because the "blowback" to such a stupid mother fucking idea like fixing prices can just go on and on and on but your a progressive, and progressives are a lot like the nutty religious right. You don't care about facts based on realities of thousands of years of economies, no, you want to believe, fee, want the economy to be a certain way... You have faith in your bullcrap made up numbers economy.

I mean 23.50$ an hour??? Based on WHAT?

"lack of available materials"
What went into short supply as a result of the DOT COM Bubble?
Nothing.

What went into short supply as a result of the Housing Bubble?
Aside from American construction jobs.

What went into short supply as a result of the Housing Bubble crash?
Aside from American jobs.


Thanks for proving me right.

In the case you gave on the housing bubble the Government's involvement in pushing easy money to get people into homes distorted markets. Mal-investment was made on a historic level and the bursting of that bubble led to a deep recession.

So your question of what resource was exhausted is "savings."

The same applies to the dot com bubble.

The low interest rates controlled by the Government via the federal reserve signals people to borrow money and take risks as money is cheap.

The more people spend and spend themselves into debt equals less savings.

Rates should have gone up to signal to stop spending and *save* as actual money becomes more scarce, but raising rates cools the economy.

So the "resource" or "material" or "unit" that was over consumed was savings. Because markets were interfered with by Government we got the worst recession on record.

Today we have much the same situation, that is why we will experience another huge crash. You can fix costs, you can raise min wage to stupid levels or give money out in bails outs and stimulus but it's all interfering.

The Housing Bubble explanation was not bad.
Not exactly on target as most of the money went either into construction or into investing in US corporations that moved to Asia; thanks to GW and a bipartisan Congress.
The money that would stay in the US under Trump went overseas due to the Free Market saying F U to the US.

The DOT COM was a complete fail, but I'd REALLY like to know what shortage was created.
The DOT COM failed when Yahoo failed to show profits 7 quarters in a row for 2 basic reasons...
[1] Nobody trusted their Credit Card Information being transferred over the Internet.
[2] The Medical Doctors who wanted to retire early pulled out of the market due to being pissed off.
There was no resultant shortage of anything because the Doctors who pulled out were saving that money in the first place.
And no money actually disappeared from the US economy; it simply went from start-ups back into traditional, boring investments.
 
SHOW US THE FUCKING NUMBERS YOU USELESS IGNORANT ****... Seriously.

Today = 10$ an hour

The Day After Tomorrow = You are made King of America and you stop all price increases, you also bump min wage to 23$ an hour.

Show us with all your tax bullshit jargon how a company will "save" while paying 130% more (actual) dollars per employee.

I don't know about you, but if I knew my expenses wouldn't increase, I wouldn't have to save as much for a rainy day.
I would eat out marginally more than I do so at the moment.
I would fill my 3 gas tank more often.
I would buy more products overall.
How would this not keep the economy going.

Price increases are generally attributed to unions and poor civil management.
The average person who, for years now, has NOT been compensated for outstanding work, would NOT feel the difference.
The upper echelon, who has been abusing their work force for some 7 years now, would know what's it's like to not be rewarded.


Look man, prices go up for many reasons, one is because of lack of available materials.

If I make something, and I order a "unit" of something from somewhere to make this product...

But this unit I need finds itself in short supply suddenly due to (the time of year, natural disaster, more demand for this part, whatever)

Naturally the cost of that part I need goes what? That's right, the price of me buying this part goes up.

Now, because the price goes up I naturally look around for other options that achieve the same goal.

Other options that once were more costly are now equal or *shocking breath* cheaper than the old unit I used to buy.

Now I buy my new and different unit (that works for my needs) from someone else!

Others do the same thing!

Over time the old part is available again for a cheaper price because of many variables!

Would you like me to go over what these variables could be?


Knowing that you won't understand any of this makes me sad... I want to keep going because the "blowback" to such a stupid mother fucking idea like fixing prices can just go on and on and on but your a progressive, and progressives are a lot like the nutty religious right. You don't care about facts based on realities of thousands of years of economies, no, you want to believe, fee, want the economy to be a certain way... You have faith in your bullcrap made up numbers economy.

I mean 23.50$ an hour??? Based on WHAT?

"lack of available materials"
What went into short supply as a result of the DOT COM Bubble?
Nothing.

What went into short supply as a result of the Housing Bubble?
Aside from American construction jobs.

What went into short supply as a result of the Housing Bubble crash?
Aside from American jobs.


Thanks for proving me right.

In the case you gave on the housing bubble the Government's involvement in pushing easy money to get people into homes distorted markets. Mal-investment was made on a historic level and the bursting of that bubble led to a deep recession.

So your question of what resource was exhausted is "savings."

The same applies to the dot com bubble.

The low interest rates controlled by the Government via the federal reserve signals people to borrow money and take risks as money is cheap.

The more people spend and spend themselves into debt equals less savings.

Rates should have gone up to signal to stop spending and *save* as actual money becomes more scarce, but raising rates cools the economy.

So the "resource" or "material" or "unit" that was over consumed was savings. Because markets were interfered with by Government we got the worst recession on record.

Today we have much the same situation, that is why we will experience another huge crash. You can fix costs, you can raise min wage to stupid levels or give money out in bails outs and stimulus but it's all interfering.

The Housing Bubble explanation was not bad.
Not exactly on target as most of the money went either into construction or into investing in US corporations that moved to Asia; thanks to GW and a bipartisan Congress.
The money that would stay in the US under Trump went overseas due to the Free Market saying F U to the US.

The DOT COM was a complete fail, but I'd REALLY like to know what shortage was created.
The DOT COM failed when Yahoo failed to show profits 7 quarters in a row for 2 basic reasons...
[1] Nobody trusted their Credit Card Information being transferred over the Internet.
[2] The Medical Doctors who wanted to retire early pulled out of the market due to being pissed off.
There was no resultant shortage of anything because the Doctors who pulled out were saving that money in the first place.
And no money actually disappeared from the US economy; it simply went from start-ups back into traditional, boring investments.


Listen, you sound like you want to learn and even add to others learning so I'll work with that.

The housing Bubble had many many many things forcing a bubble and it's crash. Savings being destroyed by an endless supply of cheap borrowed money was a huge part. At some point debt outpaces what you can afford and you get a crash, much like we see today with Obama's housing bubble (smaller) and the college bubble. The scary thing is there is no savings because the dot com bubble and the housing bubble wiped that out. The crash will be very fucked.

The dot com bubble is interesting. Once again you get over investment and oddly you suggest Yahoo was to blame for manipulating markets... Once again encouraging spending and borrowing (debt) over savings. The Dot come bubble was spending savings, people had the savings. The Housing bubble was Borrowing first then spending savings second as there was far less in savings. Today you have almost no savings but high debt.

Dot com = Spending Savings/Addition to Debt

Housing = Addition to Debt/Spending Savings

Today = Addition to Debt/No savings left

All over eating savings. The recession is the correction but the dot com had it easy as there was savings, not just debt.

The OP wants to create the most fucktarded market distortion. He wants to ass fuck logical markets so badly he wants to price control everything for 10 years.

Remember, never go full retard like the OP or no one will ever take you seriously again.
 
I don't know about you, but if I knew my expenses wouldn't increase, I wouldn't have to save as much for a rainy day.
I would eat out marginally more than I do so at the moment.
I would fill my 3 gas tank more often.
I would buy more products overall.
How would this not keep the economy going.

Price increases are generally attributed to unions and poor civil management.
The average person who, for years now, has NOT been compensated for outstanding work, would NOT feel the difference.
The upper echelon, who has been abusing their work force for some 7 years now, would know what's it's like to not be rewarded.


Look man, prices go up for many reasons, one is because of lack of available materials.

If I make something, and I order a "unit" of something from somewhere to make this product...

But this unit I need finds itself in short supply suddenly due to (the time of year, natural disaster, more demand for this part, whatever)

Naturally the cost of that part I need goes what? That's right, the price of me buying this part goes up.

Now, because the price goes up I naturally look around for other options that achieve the same goal.

Other options that once were more costly are now equal or *shocking breath* cheaper than the old unit I used to buy.

Now I buy my new and different unit (that works for my needs) from someone else!

Others do the same thing!

Over time the old part is available again for a cheaper price because of many variables!

Would you like me to go over what these variables could be?


Knowing that you won't understand any of this makes me sad... I want to keep going because the "blowback" to such a stupid mother fucking idea like fixing prices can just go on and on and on but your a progressive, and progressives are a lot like the nutty religious right. You don't care about facts based on realities of thousands of years of economies, no, you want to believe, fee, want the economy to be a certain way... You have faith in your bullcrap made up numbers economy.

I mean 23.50$ an hour??? Based on WHAT?

"lack of available materials"
What went into short supply as a result of the DOT COM Bubble?
Nothing.

What went into short supply as a result of the Housing Bubble?
Aside from American construction jobs.

What went into short supply as a result of the Housing Bubble crash?
Aside from American jobs.


Thanks for proving me right.

In the case you gave on the housing bubble the Government's involvement in pushing easy money to get people into homes distorted markets. Mal-investment was made on a historic level and the bursting of that bubble led to a deep recession.

So your question of what resource was exhausted is "savings."

The same applies to the dot com bubble.

The low interest rates controlled by the Government via the federal reserve signals people to borrow money and take risks as money is cheap.

The more people spend and spend themselves into debt equals less savings.

Rates should have gone up to signal to stop spending and *save* as actual money becomes more scarce, but raising rates cools the economy.

So the "resource" or "material" or "unit" that was over consumed was savings. Because markets were interfered with by Government we got the worst recession on record.

Today we have much the same situation, that is why we will experience another huge crash. You can fix costs, you can raise min wage to stupid levels or give money out in bails outs and stimulus but it's all interfering.

The Housing Bubble explanation was not bad.
Not exactly on target as most of the money went either into construction or into investing in US corporations that moved to Asia; thanks to GW and a bipartisan Congress.
The money that would stay in the US under Trump went overseas due to the Free Market saying F U to the US.

The DOT COM was a complete fail, but I'd REALLY like to know what shortage was created.
The DOT COM failed when Yahoo failed to show profits 7 quarters in a row for 2 basic reasons...
[1] Nobody trusted their Credit Card Information being transferred over the Internet.
[2] The Medical Doctors who wanted to retire early pulled out of the market due to being pissed off.
There was no resultant shortage of anything because the Doctors who pulled out were saving that money in the first place.
And no money actually disappeared from the US economy; it simply went from start-ups back into traditional, boring investments.


Listen, you sound like you want to learn and even add to others learning so I'll work with that.

The housing Bubble had many many many things forcing a bubble and it's crash. Savings being destroyed by an endless supply of cheap borrowed money was a huge part. At some point debt outpaces what you can afford and you get a crash, much like we see today with Obama's housing bubble (smaller) and the college bubble. The scary thing is there is no savings because the dot com bubble and the housing bubble wiped that out. The crash will be very fucked.

The dot com bubble is interesting. Once again you get over investment and oddly you suggest Yahoo was to blame for manipulating markets... Once again encouraging spending and borrowing (debt) over savings. The Dot come bubble was spending savings, people had the savings. The Housing bubble was Borrowing first then spending savings second as there was far less in savings. Today you have almost no savings but high debt.

Dot com = Spending Savings/Addition to Debt

Housing = Addition to Debt/Spending Savings

Today = Addition to Debt

All over eating savings. The recession is the correction but the dot com had it easy as there was savings, not just debt.

The OP wants to create the most fucktarded market distortion. He wants to ass fuck logical markets so badly he wants to price control everything for 10 years.

Remember, never go full retard like the OP or no one will ever take you seriously again.

Ok; appreciated.

Now what happens if wages remain stable for a period of time, personal and business taxes are lowered, competent employment is rewarded with stability, the main tax is usage and most jobs most go to US citizens?
 
Look man, prices go up for many reasons, one is because of lack of available materials.

If I make something, and I order a "unit" of something from somewhere to make this product...

But this unit I need finds itself in short supply suddenly due to (the time of year, natural disaster, more demand for this part, whatever)

Naturally the cost of that part I need goes what? That's right, the price of me buying this part goes up.

Now, because the price goes up I naturally look around for other options that achieve the same goal.

Other options that once were more costly are now equal or *shocking breath* cheaper than the old unit I used to buy.

Now I buy my new and different unit (that works for my needs) from someone else!

Others do the same thing!

Over time the old part is available again for a cheaper price because of many variables!

Would you like me to go over what these variables could be?


Knowing that you won't understand any of this makes me sad... I want to keep going because the "blowback" to such a stupid mother fucking idea like fixing prices can just go on and on and on but your a progressive, and progressives are a lot like the nutty religious right. You don't care about facts based on realities of thousands of years of economies, no, you want to believe, fee, want the economy to be a certain way... You have faith in your bullcrap made up numbers economy.

I mean 23.50$ an hour??? Based on WHAT?

"lack of available materials"
What went into short supply as a result of the DOT COM Bubble?
Nothing.

What went into short supply as a result of the Housing Bubble?
Aside from American construction jobs.

What went into short supply as a result of the Housing Bubble crash?
Aside from American jobs.


Thanks for proving me right.

In the case you gave on the housing bubble the Government's involvement in pushing easy money to get people into homes distorted markets. Mal-investment was made on a historic level and the bursting of that bubble led to a deep recession.

So your question of what resource was exhausted is "savings."

The same applies to the dot com bubble.

The low interest rates controlled by the Government via the federal reserve signals people to borrow money and take risks as money is cheap.

The more people spend and spend themselves into debt equals less savings.

Rates should have gone up to signal to stop spending and *save* as actual money becomes more scarce, but raising rates cools the economy.

So the "resource" or "material" or "unit" that was over consumed was savings. Because markets were interfered with by Government we got the worst recession on record.

Today we have much the same situation, that is why we will experience another huge crash. You can fix costs, you can raise min wage to stupid levels or give money out in bails outs and stimulus but it's all interfering.

The Housing Bubble explanation was not bad.
Not exactly on target as most of the money went either into construction or into investing in US corporations that moved to Asia; thanks to GW and a bipartisan Congress.
The money that would stay in the US under Trump went overseas due to the Free Market saying F U to the US.

The DOT COM was a complete fail, but I'd REALLY like to know what shortage was created.
The DOT COM failed when Yahoo failed to show profits 7 quarters in a row for 2 basic reasons...
[1] Nobody trusted their Credit Card Information being transferred over the Internet.
[2] The Medical Doctors who wanted to retire early pulled out of the market due to being pissed off.
There was no resultant shortage of anything because the Doctors who pulled out were saving that money in the first place.
And no money actually disappeared from the US economy; it simply went from start-ups back into traditional, boring investments.


Listen, you sound like you want to learn and even add to others learning so I'll work with that.

The housing Bubble had many many many things forcing a bubble and it's crash. Savings being destroyed by an endless supply of cheap borrowed money was a huge part. At some point debt outpaces what you can afford and you get a crash, much like we see today with Obama's housing bubble (smaller) and the college bubble. The scary thing is there is no savings because the dot com bubble and the housing bubble wiped that out. The crash will be very fucked.

The dot com bubble is interesting. Once again you get over investment and oddly you suggest Yahoo was to blame for manipulating markets... Once again encouraging spending and borrowing (debt) over savings. The Dot come bubble was spending savings, people had the savings. The Housing bubble was Borrowing first then spending savings second as there was far less in savings. Today you have almost no savings but high debt.

Dot com = Spending Savings/Addition to Debt

Housing = Addition to Debt/Spending Savings

Today = Addition to Debt

All over eating savings. The recession is the correction but the dot com had it easy as there was savings, not just debt.

The OP wants to create the most fucktarded market distortion. He wants to ass fuck logical markets so badly he wants to price control everything for 10 years.

Remember, never go full retard like the OP or no one will ever take you seriously again.

Ok; appreciated.

Now what happens if wages remain stable for a period of time, personal and business taxes are lowered, competent employment is rewarded with stability, the main tax is usage and most jobs most go to US citizens?

Well good times I would think... However you can't force it by doing as Bernie Sanders wants to do and create a massive work program. Once again when you go down the welfare line you suck up savings and encourage spending and thus debt when in reality the job was fake and can't last.

If someone unqualified or unmotivated is given a job they will prolly be unproductive at all productive. But the spending by way of borrowing (debt) will occur to pay for work not being done or done poorly, malivestment.

Will the economy surge? Yes. Will the fake stimulus induced bubble grow, yes. Will people having overpaid jobs while under performing yet spending money and not saving it, yes. Will you have a huge crash leaving people jobless and without savings, Yes. We can only base this on thousands of years of history.

So you ask a question and the answer is hard because our economy has become a socialist wet dream, thus it's endless failings. How to get people working for decent wages for long periods of time... Well, you would have to get rid of and mind melting amount of Government to even begin, and because that is not going to happen until we crash and crash again and again... the answer I have will only seem "really really cold hearted and mean!" In reality, the OP's answer will destroy millions upon millions of lives under the claim of him caring about the widdle guy.
 
The fact that you want to fix costs proves your plan is Unicorn farts. The most incredible part is that there are more reasons for why prices inflate than just "we want to charge more."

Less supply of materials to make products SHOULD raise costs so people use less of that material... Under your idiotic plan you would either oversell supply until there is nothing left or have to close shop... Distorting markets on levels so mother fucking retarded only the FedR could run an economy as badly.

Your "plan" is so bad finding a starting point seems impossible.

How would selling more cause a less supply in materials?

Wouldn't overselling supply make additional jobs to meet supply?

FYI: Markets have been distorted for the last 45 years, and not to benefit workers.


HO MY GAWD YER ONE DUMB FU-CK.

"How would selling more cause a less supply in materials?"

You know what, I'll step back and just treat you like a child new to a topic, I'll be nice.
Pretend your a farmer and you sell oooooh... Strawberries...

And I'm done, you do the rest.

Can't answer the question so you bloviate.
 
He should embrace my jobs plan.

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2015 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with 500 employees or less, employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2015 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce small business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.



My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.



My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.



My plan would end all welfare.



My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.



My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.


your plan would destroy the economy. Trump's would cause it to take off like never before.

No it won't. You can't return jobs lost do to technology. The good thing, technology has hit a roadblock, so until new technology is invented you won't loose additional jobs.

The ONLY thing that can be done to keep the middle class from permanently disappearing is to restore solvency among the class through wage/price leveling.
 
What middle class? They don't exist. Obama and the Dems have wiped out the middle class.

If you believe that, you are ignorant. The Republican manifesto has made that so.

Do you ever bother to actually research anything at all?

Have you? For instance, name one bill written, sponsored, backed by a Republican that has helped the middle class or poor that hasn't disproportionately helped the rich or corporate America. Good Luck!
 
Price and wage controls are probably the worst idea ever in the history of man.

You are correct if done the Republican way. Higher prices, less wages.

My plan increases profit for business and tax revenue for locals and States. It also returns tax monies back to the people.

Why don't you run against the Republicans then? The Democrats certainly are not fielding any candidates. You'd be a shoo in.

I like my t-shirt-shorts-thongs life style, besides, if you quit believing the BS from the right you'd find that Clinton is the only candidate on either side that has actual qualifications.
 
He should embrace my jobs plan.

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2015 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with 500 employees or less, employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2015 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce small business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.



My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.



My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.



My plan would end all welfare.



My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.



My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.


your plan would destroy the economy. Trump's would cause it to take off like never before.

No it won't. You can't return jobs lost do to technology. The good thing, technology has hit a roadblock, so until new technology is invented you won't loose additional jobs.

The ONLY thing that can be done to keep the middle class from permanently disappearing is to restore solvency among the class through wage/price leveling.

Jobs lost to technology are NOT lost, they are given away on a constant basis to the land of cheap labor known as India.
It's rather obvious to anyone familiar with H1-B visas that a minimum of 80K new unskilled visas are brought in every year to replace anyone from any other national origin.
As evidence, name me more than perhaps 2 companies, aside from Apple, that have achieved any new advances in smart technology since the late 80s.
Don't even bother including Microsoft, IBM, AT&T, GE, HP, Dell, Gatway, amongst many others.

Show this to lawyers, such as the Senate Immigration Reform Bill S744, which would import at least 160,000 attorneys from India every year, and Conservative Talk Show hosts like Mark Levin, who are attorneys, suddenly doubt the veracity of business visas.
 
What middle class? They don't exist. Obama and the Dems have wiped out the middle class.

If you believe that, you are ignorant. The Republican manifesto has made that so.

Do you ever bother to actually research anything at all?

Have you? For instance, name one bill written, sponsored, backed by a Republican that has helped the middle class or poor that hasn't disproportionately helped the rich or corporate America. Good Luck!

Well, I'd say one big one was the 1965 Civil Rights Act. That one was a whopper of a bill that the Republicans passed that aided a whole race of people.
 
Price and wage controls are probably the worst idea ever in the history of man.

You are correct if done the Republican way. Higher prices, less wages.

My plan increases profit for business and tax revenue for locals and States. It also returns tax monies back to the people.

Why don't you run against the Republicans then? The Democrats certainly are not fielding any candidates. You'd be a shoo in.

I like my t-shirt-shorts-thongs life style, besides, if you quit believing the BS from the right you'd find that Clinton is the only candidate on either side that has actual qualifications.

Indeed. I'll take their bullshit over yours any day of the week. What are YOUR poll numbers?
 

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