If this is true, we are in trouble...

[OnePercenter]

/——/,People used to be able to buy catastrophic insurance to protect them from major illness but Obozo said No way Jose and killed those policies

Why would you buy a high deductible policy when you can't afford the deductible?

/——-/ No moron, it would cover you for catastrophic illness like a heart attack or cancer. The routine stuff you paid out of pocket.

Why shouldn't your healthcare insurance company cover that? Because they don't want too. Because they are set to make the largest profit in history this year? Because they own or derive profit from 95%+ of providers in this country? Buying from the company store is NEVER a good idea, but because of actions of Republicans that's what we're stuck with.

/——/ It was cheaper. Geeeze you are clueless about the insurance business — it’s for people who only wanted coverage for major illness. But no worries Obozo killed it.

Commie Care does have catastrophic coverage, it's just their coverage is unaffordable.

After my employer dropped our coverage because of Commie Care, I signed up. What they offered me was a plan for $700.00. It had a 7K deductible and a 7K out of pocket. No prescription coverage, no dental. It had a $50.00 copay.

Even private catastrophic plans were better than that and as you stated, much cheaper. When would I ever use a plan with a 7K out of pocket unless I decide to walk in front of a moving bus?

It's expensive because there is no competition. You can thank Reagan for that. Besides, you make so little you can qualify for subsidy.

 

[OnePercenter]

"sock"/"socks" - Yeap boys, we have a real live "hacker" in out midst. You work for the Russians or Koch?

How did you ever get so far out there? I've been on this service for over three years. You're the only one that ever made that accusation. Bet you think you're slick or something.

Quit answering posts when you're logged-in wrong and quit throwing out hacker terms. That way you'll not have to cry like Kavanaugh and Swaggart.

MikeTX often posts late well into the morning; something I could never do except for weekends because I wake up at 5:30am every weekday morning. I took notice of that when I came here in the morning. So you tell me, unless I am able to stay up 24/7, HTF am I posting at 6:20 am when my last post of the night was 3:30 am under the name MikeTX, just three hours before?

And why don't you address MikeTX with the same accusation? That way you can make a fool out of yourself in front of two people instead of one? If you look at the topics I participate in, I very often make a few posts before I go to work, and perhaps during the day on my iPad depending on what I'm doing on that particular day.

Sorry, but you've been proven wrong once again.

You certainly know much about the habits of MikeTX. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

I have talked with Mike on several occasions, but if you look at the avatar of a post, you'll see it has a timestamp of when the comment was posted. It's not rocket science.

Because of that, it's impossible for us to be the same person.

You keep harping your innocence. Are you feeling guilty?

 

[OnePercenter]

The number one reason for bankruptcy for workers in the US is medical bills. How is that not quality of care?

No, that is false. People who went into bankruptcy had other issues that drove them there; medical costs was only one of them.

This Is the No. 1 Reason Americans File for Bankruptcy -- The Motley Fool

it's a matter of medical debt.

I have 141M links to prove my point.

The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent. And even among those bankruptcies, it seems that medical bills may be less of a problem than the other things associated with an illness, such as lost labor income.

In other words: Medical bankruptcy probably wasn’t nearly as big a problem as people thought when we were passing our giant new health-care program. And to the extent that it was a problem, Obamacare probably didn’t do much to fix it.

Opinion | The truth about medical bankruptcies

I post fact, you post opinion.

You don't know what I post because you never even looked at it. I'm sure your such a busy person, so I'll highlight other parts of the article for you:

And last week, the New England Journal of Medicine published a new estimate done by a team of health and labor economists.

So Carlos Dobkin, Amy Finkelstein, Raymond Kluender and Matthew J. Notowidigdo did what’s called an “event study.” Instead of looking at bankruptcies to see how many involved medical bills, they started with the illness, and asked how much more likely people were to declare bankruptcy after they got sick. That’s a much better way to tease out causation than asking whether someone who just went through a financially ruinous divorce also owed his or her dermatologist thousands of dollars.

You are correct on one thing: it is fact vs opinion, except I'm the one with the facts.

Here ya go...

US Medical Debt: 10 Facts That Will Shock You - National Bankruptcy Forum

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, that is false. People who went into bankruptcy had other issues that drove them there; medical costs was only one of them.

This Is the No. 1 Reason Americans File for Bankruptcy -- The Motley Fool

it's a matter of medical debt.

I have 141M links to prove my point.

The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent. And even among those bankruptcies, it seems that medical bills may be less of a problem than the other things associated with an illness, such as lost labor income.

In other words: Medical bankruptcy probably wasn’t nearly as big a problem as people thought when we were passing our giant new health-care program. And to the extent that it was a problem, Obamacare probably didn’t do much to fix it.

Opinion | The truth about medical bankruptcies

I post fact, you post opinion.

You don't know what I post because you never even looked at it. I'm sure your such a busy person, so I'll highlight other parts of the article for you:

And last week, the New England Journal of Medicine published a new estimate done by a team of health and labor economists.

So Carlos Dobkin, Amy Finkelstein, Raymond Kluender and Matthew J. Notowidigdo did what’s called an “event study.” Instead of looking at bankruptcies to see how many involved medical bills, they started with the illness, and asked how much more likely people were to declare bankruptcy after they got sick. That’s a much better way to tease out causation than asking whether someone who just went through a financially ruinous divorce also owed his or her dermatologist thousands of dollars.

You are correct on one thing: it is fact vs opinion, except I'm the one with the facts.

Here ya go...

US Medical Debt: 10 Facts That Will Shock You - National Bankruptcy Forum

Do you bother reading your own links or do you just find a title that you think might support your position and post it? What it said is the same thing my link said: medical bills are not the sole cause in bankruptcies.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Foxfyre]

No, that is false. People who went into bankruptcy had other issues that drove them there; medical costs was only one of them.

This Is the No. 1 Reason Americans File for Bankruptcy -- The Motley Fool

it's a matter of medical debt.

I have 141M links to prove my point.

The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent. And even among those bankruptcies, it seems that medical bills may be less of a problem than the other things associated with an illness, such as lost labor income.

In other words: Medical bankruptcy probably wasn’t nearly as big a problem as people thought when we were passing our giant new health-care program. And to the extent that it was a problem, Obamacare probably didn’t do much to fix it.

Opinion | The truth about medical bankruptcies

I post fact, you post opinion.

You don't know what I post because you never even looked at it. I'm sure your such a busy person, so I'll highlight other parts of the article for you:

And last week, the New England Journal of Medicine published a new estimate done by a team of health and labor economists.

So Carlos Dobkin, Amy Finkelstein, Raymond Kluender and Matthew J. Notowidigdo did what’s called an “event study.” Instead of looking at bankruptcies to see how many involved medical bills, they started with the illness, and asked how much more likely people were to declare bankruptcy after they got sick. That’s a much better way to tease out causation than asking whether someone who just went through a financially ruinous divorce also owed his or her dermatologist thousands of dollars.

You are correct on one thing: it is fact vs opinion, except I'm the one with the facts.

Here ya go...

US Medical Debt: 10 Facts That Will Shock You - National Bankruptcy Forum

Yes, since Obamacare, more than 60% of bankruptcies are mostly caused because of excessive medical bills. Other causes are job loss, overuse of credit, divorce or separation, and other unexpected expenses.

But why is this the case? The record shows that prior to the federal government getting involved in healthcare in the 1960's, bankruptcy in the USA was roughly .15% of the population. And while correlation is not causation, we have to wonder if Medicare and Medicaid and other of Johnson's 'War on Poverty' starting in the 1960's was the reason bankruptcies began escalating dramatically in the 1960's?

Personal bankruptcies in the United States have had a dynamic history over the past 100 years. Bankruptcy filings in the first half of the 20th century averaged 0.15 per 1,000 people and grew at an average annual rate of 2.4 percent. Bankruptcies began to increase during the 1960s and have grown dramatically since 1980. Between 1980 and 2004, bankruptcies grew at an annual average rate of 7.6 percent a year. As of 2004, the filing rate was 5.3 per 1,000 people, more than four times the 1980 rate and nearly 80 times the 1920 rate. . .​

100 Years of Bankruptcy: Why More Americans Than Ever Are Filing

And those receiving the most government subsidized healthcare are among the highest filing bankruptcy:

. . .Even those with Medicare, or independent or employer-sponsored health plans, may still struggle with the costs associated with medical care. High copays, uncovered medications, catastrophic health events and medical issues requiring long term care can leave most people unable to pay the bills.

Seniors in particular are more likely than ever to file bankruptcy. The Consumer Bankruptcy Project found that older Americans have seen an increase in bankruptcy filings anywhere from 200 to 300 percent, since 1991. Increased healthcare costs, a lack of proper retirement savings, decreased availability of pensions in favor of 401(k) plans, delayed Social Security benefits, and too much debt are all contributing factors. . .​

What is the Leading Cause of Bankruptcy in the US? - Financial Health Network

I have been unable to find what the leading cause of bankruptcy was in say 1965 before the federal government starting getting heavily involved in healthcare, but I would lay odds that it was not healthcare costs because the costs were so much lower then. If we didn't have insurance we could still afford to go to the doctor (insurance didn't cover doctor visits) or even the emergency room. And if a person didn't have hospitalization insurance, the hospitals would arrange a plan where they could pay off their much lower hospital bill--it cost a few hundred dollars to have a baby in the hospital back then which was beyond most people's means but manageable to pay out over time.

As an aside the official U.S. poverty rate was 19% in 1965. By 1985 the poverty rate was roughly 14% mostly due to an improved economy, and pretty much the same as it was in the 1990's and 2000 and when Obamacare went into force. The poverty rate ticked up a bit under Obama and has ticked down a bit under Trump policies all while $22 trillion has been spent to eradicate poverty since 1965. And the 'poor' are all fully covered by government healthcare via Medicaid.

It's obvious we aren't getting our money's worth from the $22 TRILLION dollars that have been spent on the War on Poverty or from government run healthcare.

We can do better. But we have to let go of the failed policies that have not corrected the situation, in fact have exacerbated them, and allow different ways of tackling the problems to be tried.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How did you ever get so far out there? I've been on this service for over three years. You're the only one that ever made that accusation. Bet you think you're slick or something.

Quit answering posts when you're logged-in wrong and quit throwing out hacker terms. That way you'll not have to cry like Kavanaugh and Swaggart.

MikeTX often posts late well into the morning; something I could never do except for weekends because I wake up at 5:30am every weekday morning. I took notice of that when I came here in the morning. So you tell me, unless I am able to stay up 24/7, HTF am I posting at 6:20 am when my last post of the night was 3:30 am under the name MikeTX, just three hours before?

And why don't you address MikeTX with the same accusation? That way you can make a fool out of yourself in front of two people instead of one? If you look at the topics I participate in, I very often make a few posts before I go to work, and perhaps during the day on my iPad depending on what I'm doing on that particular day.

Sorry, but you've been proven wrong once again.

You certainly know much about the habits of MikeTX. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

I have talked with Mike on several occasions, but if you look at the avatar of a post, you'll see it has a timestamp of when the comment was posted. It's not rocket science.

Because of that, it's impossible for us to be the same person.

You keep harping your innocence. Are you feeling guilty?

I proved my case. You didn’t.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

 

[OnePercenter]

This Is the No. 1 Reason Americans File for Bankruptcy -- The Motley Fool

I have 141M links to prove my point.

The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent. And even among those bankruptcies, it seems that medical bills may be less of a problem than the other things associated with an illness, such as lost labor income.

In other words: Medical bankruptcy probably wasn’t nearly as big a problem as people thought when we were passing our giant new health-care program. And to the extent that it was a problem, Obamacare probably didn’t do much to fix it.

Opinion | The truth about medical bankruptcies

I post fact, you post opinion.

You don't know what I post because you never even looked at it. I'm sure your such a busy person, so I'll highlight other parts of the article for you:

And last week, the New England Journal of Medicine published a new estimate done by a team of health and labor economists.

So Carlos Dobkin, Amy Finkelstein, Raymond Kluender and Matthew J. Notowidigdo did what’s called an “event study.” Instead of looking at bankruptcies to see how many involved medical bills, they started with the illness, and asked how much more likely people were to declare bankruptcy after they got sick. That’s a much better way to tease out causation than asking whether someone who just went through a financially ruinous divorce also owed his or her dermatologist thousands of dollars.

You are correct on one thing: it is fact vs opinion, except I'm the one with the facts.

Here ya go...

US Medical Debt: 10 Facts That Will Shock You - National Bankruptcy Forum

Do you bother reading your own links or do you just find a title that you think might support your position and post it? What it said is the same thing my link said: medical bills are not the sole cause in bankruptcies.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

I stated it's the number one cause when it shouldn't be a cause. Now that Republicans are trying to reduce social security and medicare payments it's going to get worse.

 

[OnePercenter]

This Is the No. 1 Reason Americans File for Bankruptcy -- The Motley Fool

I have 141M links to prove my point.

The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent. And even among those bankruptcies, it seems that medical bills may be less of a problem than the other things associated with an illness, such as lost labor income.

In other words: Medical bankruptcy probably wasn’t nearly as big a problem as people thought when we were passing our giant new health-care program. And to the extent that it was a problem, Obamacare probably didn’t do much to fix it.

Opinion | The truth about medical bankruptcies

I post fact, you post opinion.

You don't know what I post because you never even looked at it. I'm sure your such a busy person, so I'll highlight other parts of the article for you:

And last week, the New England Journal of Medicine published a new estimate done by a team of health and labor economists.

So Carlos Dobkin, Amy Finkelstein, Raymond Kluender and Matthew J. Notowidigdo did what’s called an “event study.” Instead of looking at bankruptcies to see how many involved medical bills, they started with the illness, and asked how much more likely people were to declare bankruptcy after they got sick. That’s a much better way to tease out causation than asking whether someone who just went through a financially ruinous divorce also owed his or her dermatologist thousands of dollars.

You are correct on one thing: it is fact vs opinion, except I'm the one with the facts.

Here ya go...

US Medical Debt: 10 Facts That Will Shock You - National Bankruptcy Forum

Yes, since Obamacare, more than 60% of bankruptcies are mostly caused because of excessive medical bills. Other causes are job loss, overuse of credit, divorce or separation, and other unexpected expenses.

But why is this the case? The record shows that prior to the federal government getting involved in healthcare in the 1960's, bankruptcy in the USA was roughly .15% of the population. And while correlation is not causation, we have to wonder if Medicare and Medicaid and other of Johnson's 'War on Poverty' starting in the 1960's was the reason bankruptcies began escalating dramatically in the 1960's?

Personal bankruptcies in the United States have had a dynamic history over the past 100 years. Bankruptcy filings in the first half of the 20th century averaged 0.15 per 1,000 people and grew at an average annual rate of 2.4 percent. Bankruptcies began to increase during the 1960s and have grown dramatically since 1980. Between 1980 and 2004, bankruptcies grew at an annual average rate of 7.6 percent a year. As of 2004, the filing rate was 5.3 per 1,000 people, more than four times the 1980 rate and nearly 80 times the 1920 rate. . .​

100 Years of Bankruptcy: Why More Americans Than Ever Are Filing

And those receiving the most government subsidized healthcare are among the highest filing bankruptcy:

. . .Even those with Medicare, or independent or employer-sponsored health plans, may still struggle with the costs associated with medical care. High copays, uncovered medications, catastrophic health events and medical issues requiring long term care can leave most people unable to pay the bills.

Seniors in particular are more likely than ever to file bankruptcy. The Consumer Bankruptcy Project found that older Americans have seen an increase in bankruptcy filings anywhere from 200 to 300 percent, since 1991. Increased healthcare costs, a lack of proper retirement savings, decreased availability of pensions in favor of 401(k) plans, delayed Social Security benefits, and too much debt are all contributing factors. . .​

What is the Leading Cause of Bankruptcy in the US? - Financial Health Network

I have been unable to find what the leading cause of bankruptcy was in say 1965 before the federal government starting getting heavily involved in healthcare, but I would lay odds that it was not healthcare costs because the costs were so much lower then. If we didn't have insurance we could still afford to go to the doctor (insurance didn't cover doctor visits) or even the emergency room. And if a person didn't have hospitalization insurance, the hospitals would arrange a plan where they could pay off their much lower hospital bill--it cost a few hundred dollars to have a baby in the hospital back then which was beyond most people's means but manageable to pay out over time.

As an aside the official U.S. poverty rate was 19% in 1965. By 1985 the poverty rate was roughly 14% mostly due to an improved economy, and pretty much the same as it was in the 1990's and 2000 and when Obamacare went into force. The poverty rate ticked up a bit under Obama and has ticked down a bit under Trump policies all while $22 trillion has been spent to eradicate poverty since 1965. And the 'poor' are all fully covered by government healthcare via Medicaid.

It's obvious we aren't getting our money's worth from the $22 TRILLION dollars that have been spent on the War on Poverty or from government run healthcare.

We can do better. But we have to let go of the failed policies that have not corrected the situation, in fact have exacerbated them, and allow different ways of tackling the problems to be tried.

Actually, the poverty rate rose after the BushCo economic crash.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent. And even among those bankruptcies, it seems that medical bills may be less of a problem than the other things associated with an illness, such as lost labor income.

In other words: Medical bankruptcy probably wasn’t nearly as big a problem as people thought when we were passing our giant new health-care program. And to the extent that it was a problem, Obamacare probably didn’t do much to fix it.

Opinion | The truth about medical bankruptcies

I post fact, you post opinion.

You don't know what I post because you never even looked at it. I'm sure your such a busy person, so I'll highlight other parts of the article for you:

And last week, the New England Journal of Medicine published a new estimate done by a team of health and labor economists.

So Carlos Dobkin, Amy Finkelstein, Raymond Kluender and Matthew J. Notowidigdo did what’s called an “event study.” Instead of looking at bankruptcies to see how many involved medical bills, they started with the illness, and asked how much more likely people were to declare bankruptcy after they got sick. That’s a much better way to tease out causation than asking whether someone who just went through a financially ruinous divorce also owed his or her dermatologist thousands of dollars.

You are correct on one thing: it is fact vs opinion, except I'm the one with the facts.

Here ya go...

US Medical Debt: 10 Facts That Will Shock You - National Bankruptcy Forum

Do you bother reading your own links or do you just find a title that you think might support your position and post it? What it said is the same thing my link said: medical bills are not the sole cause in bankruptcies.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

I stated it's the number one cause when it shouldn't be a cause. Now that Republicans are trying to reduce social security and medicare payments it's going to get worse.

It's not the number one cause and even the link you posted admits that. Medical expenses are part of their problem--not the entire problem nor their main problem.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's not what we were talking about. We were discussing the quality of our care compared to others.

The number one reason for bankruptcy for workers in the US is medical bills. How is that not quality of care?

No, that is false. People who went into bankruptcy had other issues that drove them there; medical costs was only one of them.

This Is the No. 1 Reason Americans File for Bankruptcy -- The Motley Fool

it's a matter of medical debt.

I have 141M links to prove my point.

The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent. And even among those bankruptcies, it seems that medical bills may be less of a problem than the other things associated with an illness, such as lost labor income.

In other words: Medical bankruptcy probably wasn’t nearly as big a problem as people thought when we were passing our giant new health-care program. And to the extent that it was a problem, Obamacare probably didn’t do much to fix it.

Opinion | The truth about medical bankruptcies

I post fact, you post opinion.

Here. Since you're too damned stupid and lazy to bother, this is the link to the FACTS about which Ray's link was speaking. You're welcome.

NEJM - Error

Go tell the New England Journal of Medicine that they're publishing "opinion".

And yes, even though the link title says "Error", it will still take you to the correct page.

 

[Cecilie1200]

"Five-year survival for the most common 18 cancers remained highest globally for the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, followed by Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden, according to data through 2014 from CONCORD-3."

Now pick out the most affordable countries for healthcare.

That's not what we were talking about. We were discussing the quality of our care compared to others.

The number one reason for bankruptcy for workers in the US is medical bills. How is that not quality of care?

/——/,People used to be able to buy catastrophic insurance to protect them from major illness but Obozo said No way Jose and killed those policies

Why would you buy a high deductible policy when you can't afford the deductible?

/——-/ No moron, it would cover you for catastrophic illness like a heart attack or cancer. The routine stuff you paid out of pocket.

And if one is smart, one gets an HSA to accompany their high-deductible catastrophic insurance, so that the tax-free money is on hand to pay the deductible, should you have an emergency.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's not what we were talking about. We were discussing the quality of our care compared to others.

The number one reason for bankruptcy for workers in the US is medical bills. How is that not quality of care?

/——/,People used to be able to buy catastrophic insurance to protect them from major illness but Obozo said No way Jose and killed those policies

Why would you buy a high deductible policy when you can't afford the deductible?

/——-/ No moron, it would cover you for catastrophic illness like a heart attack or cancer. The routine stuff you paid out of pocket.

Why shouldn't your healthcare insurance company cover that? Because they don't want too. Because they are set to make the largest profit in history this year? Because they own or derive profit from 95%+ of providers in this country? Buying from the company store is NEVER a good idea, but because of actions of Republicans that's what we're stuck with.

Who said they don't want to cover it, dimwit? They're perfectly happy to sell you coverage that includes that stuff. Not everyone feels the need to pay those kind of premiums, though.

But thank you for wasting space posting partisan assumptions in place of actual knowledge about the history of health insurance in America.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, that is false. People who went into bankruptcy had other issues that drove them there; medical costs was only one of them.

This Is the No. 1 Reason Americans File for Bankruptcy -- The Motley Fool

it's a matter of medical debt.

I have 141M links to prove my point.

The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent. And even among those bankruptcies, it seems that medical bills may be less of a problem than the other things associated with an illness, such as lost labor income.

In other words: Medical bankruptcy probably wasn’t nearly as big a problem as people thought when we were passing our giant new health-care program. And to the extent that it was a problem, Obamacare probably didn’t do much to fix it.

Opinion | The truth about medical bankruptcies

I post fact, you post opinion.

What I post is fact because if you bothered to read the link (which you didn't even look at) they did a study on the subject. So it's Motley Fool vs The Washington Post. Gee, which one do you suppose is more reliable?

It's my fact vs. and your opinion piece.

It's your talking point against your unwillingness to actually find out the truth when assumptions are easier.

 

[gipper]

How is this possible in the richest nation on earth, while the ruling class and political class become millionaires and billionaires?

The Welfare Generation: 51.7% Kids in 2017 Lived in Households Getting Govt Assistance
The Welfare Generation: 51.7% Kids in 2017 Lived in Households Getting Govt Assistance

 

[Cellblock2429]

How is this possible in the richest nation on earth, while the ruling class and political class become millionaires and billionaires?

The Welfare Generation: 51.7% Kids in 2017 Lived in Households Getting Govt Assistance
The Welfare Generation: 51.7% Kids in 2017 Lived in Households Getting Govt Assistance

/----/ If you lower the bar for getting assistance, more people will sign up for free stuff. It's simple greed and laziness.