CDZ If they ever did ban and confiscate guns here, what would actually happen?

[2aguy]

That is an easy question.....our criminals are currently more violent and willing to kill more often and easily than the criminals in other countries....we are also on the border with the Narco state of Mexico where the drug cartels and the Mexican police and military already murder their citizens in the 10s of thousands every single year....

Blood would run in the streets......innocent blood.

Americans use their guns on average 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack....if guns were banned, those attacks would be completed, not stopped......

We can already see in Britain where violent crime rates, and gun crime rates are going up...our violent crime rates would sky rocket...and it would spread....

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Americans are not Australians or Euros. There is no way to enforce a national ban here. An actual attempt would cause an armed uprising of enormous proportions.

 

[2aguy]

Americans are not Australians or Euros. There is no way to enforce a national ban here. An actual attempt would cause an armed uprising of enormous proportions.

It wouldn't go like that....the democrats are too smart for that....they would simply pass the law, and then, one by one they would pick off normal gun owners, make a big show of destroying their lives and scare everyone but the hard core into turning into their guns...then, the democrats in the media would declare the rest of the gun owners monsters and terrorists....giving the democrats even more power to use force when they found someone with a gun...

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Americans are not Australians or Euros. There is no way to enforce a national ban here. An actual attempt would cause an armed uprising of enormous proportions.

It wouldn't go like that....the democrats are too smart for that....they would simply pass the law, and then, one by one they would pick off normal gun owners, make a big show of destroying their lives and scare everyone but the hard core into turning into their guns...then, the democrats in the media would declare the rest of the gun owners monsters and terrorists....giving the democrats even more power to use force when they found someone with a gun...

The party would start long before that.

 

[K9Buck]

I guess the government would first need to have lists of people who have purchased or registered guns. Then, they would send them a letter ordering them to turn in their gun(s). If they didn't turn in their guns, then the government would probably freeze their bank accounts, suspend their driver's license, place liens against their property, etc. They don't need to show up at one's door to compel their cooperation.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

I guess the government would first need to have lists of people who have purchased or registered guns. Then, they would send them a letter ordering them to turn in their gun(s). If they didn't turn in their guns, then the government would probably freeze their bank accounts, suspend their driver's license, place liens against their property, etc. They don't need to show up at one's door to compel their cooperation.

Tres-Unconstitutional.

That said -

"Dear Mr. Government:

"Received the other day your official request that I turn in my firearms.

"I would like to comply, but unfortunately I am unable. About six weeks ago, just about the time the bill authorizing your request passed, an unusual event occurred. It was about three in the morning, and suddenly I was visited by a big bright light. It filled the room almost to blinding me. I thought I was about to be abducted by aliens!

"Then, just as suddenly, the bright light was gone. I calmed myself and went back to sleep.

"Strangely, the next day I discovered that the pistol you requested was missing from my biometric safe! 'How could this be?', I wondered.

"Thinking possibly that I had left it in the larger safe, I ran to check, and discovered to my surprise and perplexity that ALL my firearms were gone. Vanished into thin air, just like that.

"Needless to say, I was quite chagrined, having spent some real money on my security equipment!

"A report has been filed with the local police, and they have all the information you may require about this most unusual event. Should my firearms be found, I will of course be happy to satisfy your earlier request.

"With all sincerity, Billy"

 

[Toronado3800]

Americans are not Australians or Euros. There is no way to enforce a national ban here. An actual attempt would cause an armed uprising of enormous proportions.

It wouldn't go like that....the democrats are too smart for that....they would simply pass the law, and then, one by one they would pick off normal gun owners, make a big show of destroying their lives and scare everyone but the hard core into turning into their guns...then, the democrats in the media would declare the rest of the gun owners monsters and terrorists....giving the democrats even more power to use force when they found someone with a gun...

I think it would start with buy backs. Massive ones. You'd get a few takers too.

Criminal organizations would still have guns of course.

Black market guns would still be there.

There is a special type of weird white guy mass shooter who I'd be curious how he turns. The Navy Seal worshiping, isolated fellow who eventually snaps.

 

[Yousaidwhat]

I guess the government would first need to have lists of people who have purchased or registered guns. Then, they would send them a letter ordering them to turn in their gun(s). If they didn't turn in their guns, then the government would probably freeze their bank accounts, suspend their driver's license, place liens against their property, etc. They don't need to show up at one's door to compel their cooperation.

Were the Government to do as you suggest would cause the collapse of our entire economy.

They wouldn't have to come to our door.

I would see the nation showing up at their door, armed and physically removing them from their cushy positions.

 

[Keroplatidae]

No one would do that. If 300 000 aliens landed on flying plates down here we wouldn't ban the plates and then expect them to walk back home. The question is how to control the gun owners.

 

[JLW]

Why would the government confiscate your guns? That is dumb and will never happen.

Put a tax on ammo. A $25.00 or $50.00 per bullet tax would do the trick. It could be used to offset Trump's infrastructure initiative.

You would also see gun crime plummet.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

That is an easy question.....our criminals are currently more violent and willing to kill more often and easily than the criminals in other countries....we are also on the border with the Narco state of Mexico where the drug cartels and the Mexican police and military already murder their citizens in the 10s of thousands every single year....

Blood would run in the streets......innocent blood.

Americans use their guns on average 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack....if guns were banned, those attacks would be completed, not stopped......

We can already see in Britain where violent crime rates, and gun crime rates are going up...our violent crime rates would sky rocket...and it would spread....

1. anti-Gun voters lack the votes in the Senate even if they could win in November and take the Senate back ( very unlikely ).

2. Majority of States that are rural would never support the removal or change of the Second Amendment.

Sure California and New York and Maybe Florida but not New Mexico, Texas or Nevada.

3. It is against the law to murder and seeing the punishment does not stop the insanity what other laws will?

------

The reason why America is seeing mass shooting more and more has to do with the media coverage and how the criminal can glorify themselves by trying to go out in a blaze of glory while on National News.

I do blame the media for their part but also today society has fallen into the abyss.

I doubt I will see the repeal of the Second Amendment ( which I never want ) but in another hundred years it will be gone because the Generation X gave birth to this generation and they will breed kids that will believe your right to Bear Arms is barbaric and should be done away with...

I pity our future as a nation...

 

[JoeB131]

That is an easy question.....our criminals are currently more violent and willing to kill more often and easily than the criminals in other countries....we are also on the border with the Narco state of Mexico where the drug cartels and the Mexican police and military already murder their citizens in the 10s of thousands every single year....

Blood would run in the streets......innocent blood.

I see why you'd wan to hide in the CDZ for this one

Our problem isn't "Criminals', it's regular folks having a bad day who are responsible for most of the suicides, domestic violence, mass shootings and accidents because people who have no business owning a gun have easy access to them.

Also, most of the guns used in crime in Mexico come from here, not the other way around. The Mexicans have been begging us for years to do something about it.

Americans use their guns on average 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack....if guns were banned, those attacks would be completed, not stopped......

That seems fairly improbable.

First, if you have 1.5 million DGUs, but only 200 justified homicides with guns, that means that lethal force is only applied one out of 7500 times a gun is pulled out. That seems like a real lot of restraint, and it doesn't pass the laugh test.

You would have to believe there are more DGU's than actual crimes.

It wouldn't go like that....the democrats are too smart for that....they would simply pass the law, and then, one by one they would pick off normal gun owners, make a big show of destroying their lives and scare everyone but the hard core into turning into their guns...then, the democrats in the media would declare the rest of the gun owners monsters and terrorists....giving the democrats even more power to use force when they found someone with a gun...

Works for me.

Here's the thing, guy. You are already losing the culture war on guns. Big corporations are turning on the NRA, because they've gotten fed up with the gun culture that makes them have to hire security guards, put in cameras and security doors and do Active Shooter Drills.

You see, when the Active Shooter creates a bunch of vacancies like this nut just did at the VA home, the gun industry can't be held liable, but the employers can. There has to be a point where big corporations look at that and say, "Um, yeah, maybe we shouldn't be turning our businesses into fortresses."
.

 

[2aguy]

That is an easy question.....our criminals are currently more violent and willing to kill more often and easily than the criminals in other countries....we are also on the border with the Narco state of Mexico where the drug cartels and the Mexican police and military already murder their citizens in the 10s of thousands every single year....

Blood would run in the streets......innocent blood.

I see why you'd wan to hide in the CDZ for this one

Our problem isn't "Criminals', it's regular folks having a bad day who are responsible for most of the suicides, domestic violence, mass shootings and accidents because people who have no business owning a gun have easy access to them.

Also, most of the guns used in crime in Mexico come from here, not the other way around. The Mexicans have been begging us for years to do something about it.

Americans use their guns on average 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack....if guns were banned, those attacks would be completed, not stopped......

That seems fairly improbable.

First, if you have 1.5 million DGUs, but only 200 justified homicides with guns, that means that lethal force is only applied one out of 7500 times a gun is pulled out. That seems like a real lot of restraint, and it doesn't pass the laugh test.

You would have to believe there are more DGU's than actual crimes.

It wouldn't go like that....the democrats are too smart for that....they would simply pass the law, and then, one by one they would pick off normal gun owners, make a big show of destroying their lives and scare everyone but the hard core into turning into their guns...then, the democrats in the media would declare the rest of the gun owners monsters and terrorists....giving the democrats even more power to use force when they found someone with a gun...

Works for me.

Here's the thing, guy. You are already losing the culture war on guns. Big corporations are turning on the NRA, because they've gotten fed up with the gun culture that makes them have to hire security guards, put in cameras and security doors and do Active Shooter Drills.

You see, when the Active Shooter creates a bunch of vacancies like this nut just did at the VA home, the gun industry can't be held liable, but the employers can. There has to be a point where big corporations look at that and say, "Um, yeah, maybe we shouldn't be turning our businesses into fortresses."
.

Our problem isn't "Criminals', it's regular folks having a bad day who are responsible for most of the suicides, domestic violence, mass shootings and accidents because people who have no business owning a gun have easy access to them.

Yes....our problem is criminals......normal, law abiding people are not using their legal guns to shoot anyone or to cause crime...

Criminals with long histories of crime and violence are the problem....repeat, violent gun offenders that people like you let out of jail, over and over again are the problem....mass shootings are tiny and rare, it is the criminals the democrats keep letting out of jail that are driving our gun crime rate......

Also, most of the guns used in crime in Mexico come from here, not the other way around. The Mexicans have been begging us for years to do something about it.

Wrong....most of the military guns in Mexico come from China and Europe.....the American guns come from the ones we give the Mexican military and police which they then give or sell to the drug cartels.....if the Mexican government would stop helping the drug cartels, they could solve the problem.

First, if you have 1.5 million DGUs, but only 200 justified homicides with guns, that means that lethal force is only applied one out of 7500 times a gun is pulled out. That seems like a real lot of restraint, and it doesn't pass the laugh test.

There is 41 years of actual research, you have seen it....most of it done by anti gun researchers.....here it is again.......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Here's the thing, guy. You are already losing the culture war on guns. Big corporations are turning on the NRA, because they've gotten fed up with the gun culture that makes them have to hire security guards, put in cameras and security doors and do Active Shooter Drills.

Big Corporations don't fund the NRA......they are the ones who will lose out as the NRA and gun owners stop buying their products....this is not a boycott war they can win, since gun owners aren't in the NRA for products..

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Why would the government confiscate your guns? That is dumb and will never happen.

Put a tax on ammo. A $25.00 or $50.00 per bullet tax would do the trick. It could be used to offset Trump's infrastructure initiative.

You would also see gun crime plummet.

Unconstitutional.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes....our problem is criminals......normal, law abiding people are not using their legal guns to shoot anyone or to cause crime...

That's a logical fallacy. Up until the point where he shot up all those kids, Nikolas Cruz was a "normal law-abiding citizen". He hadn't been convicted of any crime.

The same can be said of the guy who shoots his wife during an argument over who ate the last strip of bacon.

Criminals with long histories of crime and violence are the problem....repeat, violent gun offenders that people like you let out of jail, over and over again are the problem....mass shootings are tiny and rare, it is the criminals the democrats keep letting out of jail that are driving our gun crime rate......

Except most gun murders aren't committed by "Criminals", they are committed by regular folks. In fact, of the 16,000 homicides, only 2000 are "Gang related". Even assuming all of those are done with guns, they only make up a fifth of gun related homicides.

Wrong....most of the military guns in Mexico come from China and Europe.....

U.S. guns used in a majority of crimes in Mexico, Center for American Progress says

According to the analysis, the U.S. was the primary source of weapons used to commit crimes in Canada and Mexico, and U.S. weapons make up a significant portion of those used in crimesin all seven Central American nations.

The problem is most pronounced in Mexico, the report states. Nearly 70 percent of the 106,000 recovered weapons submitted to ATF from 2011 to 2016 were traced to the United States.

 

[2aguy]

Yes....our problem is criminals......normal, law abiding people are not using their legal guns to shoot anyone or to cause crime...

That's a logical fallacy. Up until the point where he shot up all those kids, Nikolas Cruz was a "normal law-abiding citizen". He hadn't been convicted of any crime.

The same can be said of the guy who shoots his wife during an argument over who ate the last strip of bacon.

Criminals with long histories of crime and violence are the problem....repeat, violent gun offenders that people like you let out of jail, over and over again are the problem....mass shootings are tiny and rare, it is the criminals the democrats keep letting out of jail that are driving our gun crime rate......

Except most gun murders aren't committed by "Criminals", they are committed by regular folks. In fact, of the 16,000 homicides, only 2000 are "Gang related". Even assuming all of those are done with guns, they only make up a fifth of gun related homicides.

Wrong....most of the military guns in Mexico come from China and Europe.....

U.S. guns used in a majority of crimes in Mexico, Center for American Progress says

According to the analysis, the U.S. was the primary source of weapons used to commit crimes in Canada and Mexico, and U.S. weapons make up a significant portion of those used in crimesin all seven Central American nations.

The problem is most pronounced in Mexico, the report states. Nearly 70 percent of the 106,000 recovered weapons submitted to ATF from 2011 to 2016 were traced to the United States.

That's a logical fallacy. Up until the point where he shot up all those kids, Nikolas Cruz was a "normal law-abiding citizen". He hadn't been convicted of any crime.


Really.....you are going to say that? the obama Promise Policy allowed this kid to not be arrested.....he was violent, committed several felonies and yet because of obama's policy, the school and the local police refused to arrest him...he was not a normal person, and had a long history of violence and crime ...but again...democrats like you kept letting him go........he was visited 45 times by the local police, he had been caught with bullets and knives on school grounds and had started a number of fights with staff and students....and he even had 2 specific warnings called in to the FBI....

he was not a normal, law abiding citizen in any shape or form.....and your god, government, refused to deal with him no matter how many crimes he committed....

Except most gun murders aren't committed by "Criminals", they are committed by regular folks. In fact, of the 16,000 homicides, only 2000 are "Gang related". Even assuming all of those are done with guns, they only make up a fifth of gun related homicides.


Gangs are not the only criminals.....wow.....you have been shown the research, 90% of murderers have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teen years....like the Florida shooter....so you are just wrong on all counts...

The problem is most pronounced in Mexico, the report states. Nearly 70 percent of the 106,000 recovered weapons submitted to ATF from 2011 to 2016 were traced to the United States.

Yes....you used an anti gun site to lie about guns in Mexico......that 70 percent number is only because of the guns submitted, only the American guns are traceable....

Notice...this is the Washington Post...

Mexico’s gun control laws: A model for the United States?
Politicians such as President Obama, former Secretary of State Clinton, and various Mexican officials have asserted that 85-90 percent of Mexican crime guns come from the United States. But the actual figure is much lower. Jorge G. Castañeda, who served as Foreign Minister of Mexico from 2000 to 2003, and Rubén Aguilar, who served as the Press Secretary for the President of Mexico from 2000 to 2006,

estimate that 18% of Mexican crime guns can be conclusively determined to have come from the United States. They argue that the higher figures are invented and used for domestic political purposes by Mexican government officials.



Whatever the exact percentage, it is incorrect to assert that purchases from American gun stores for the purposes of smuggling into Mexico are the prime source of American guns in Mexico. To the contrary, of the Mexican guns that are successfully traced to the U.S., the average firearms age is fifteen years, according to data compiled by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives. The age of these guns is strong evidence that they were legal American guns that were stolen and then sold into the black market–and not guns which were bought at a gun store as part of a plan for them to be immediately transported to Mexico.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Yes....our problem is criminals......normal, law abiding people are not using their legal guns to shoot anyone or to cause crime...

That's a logical fallacy. Up until the point where he shot up all those kids, Nikolas Cruz was a "normal law-abiding citizen". He hadn't been convicted of any crime.

He'd been picked out 40 times as violent and mentally unbalanced. Blame your government for his being on the street.

 

[JoeB131]

Really.....you are going to say that? the obama Promise Policy allowed this kid to not be arrested.....he was violent, committed several felonies and yet because of obama's policy, the school and the local police refused to arrest him...

What "felonies' did he actually commit? Be specific!

The only thing he was guilty of was fighting in school. That's normal teenage behavior.

Here's the real truth. White kids are almost never arrested or get disciplinary infractions for this kind of behavior. I know I didn't. The reason for the Obama policy is because schools were using these rules to expel black kids.

.and he even had 2 specific warnings called in to the FBI....

And the FBI thought, "We have real crimes to investigate."

Gangs are not the only criminals.....wow.....you have been shown the research, 90% of murderers have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teen years....like the Florida shooter....so you are just wrong on all counts...

If they had real criminal histories, they shouldn't be able to buy guns to start with.

 

[2aguy]

Really.....you are going to say that? the obama Promise Policy allowed this kid to not be arrested.....he was violent, committed several felonies and yet because of obama's policy, the school and the local police refused to arrest him...

What "felonies' did he actually commit? Be specific!

The only thing he was guilty of was fighting in school. That's normal teenage behavior.

Here's the real truth. White kids are almost never arrested or get disciplinary infractions for this kind of behavior. I know I didn't. The reason for the Obama policy is because schools were using these rules to expel black kids.

.and he even had 2 specific warnings called in to the FBI....

And the FBI thought, "We have real crimes to investigate."

Gangs are not the only criminals.....wow.....you have been shown the research, 90% of murderers have long histories of crime and violence going back to their teen years....like the Florida shooter....so you are just wrong on all counts...

If they had real criminal histories, they shouldn't be able to buy guns to start with.

He brought bullets into a gun free zone. He attacked staff and fellow students. And of course we don't know what he was doing the 45 times the cops showed up at his home......

You can't justify the failure of local, state and federal law enforcment or the obama policy that kept this violent kid from being arrested.......but, you need to ban guns....so ignore the actual problem...and get back to banning the guns from people who commit no crimes....

 

[JoeB131]

He brought bullets into a gun free zone. He attacked staff and fellow students. And of course we don't know what he was doing the 45 times the cops showed up at his home......

You can't justify the failure of local, state and federal law enforcment or the obama policy that kept this violent kid from being arrested.......but, you need to ban guns....so ignore the actual problem...and get back to banning the guns from people who commit no crimes....

This guy committed no crimes up until the point he shot 17 of his teachers and classmates.... that's the thing.

And we weren't arresting white kids for this sort of thing before the Obama policy.

The hidden racism of school discipline, in 7 charts

When police get involved in school discipline, students start down the "school-to-prison pipeline": Their disciplinary infractions at school turn into a criminal record. The number of school resource officers, police officers assigned to schools, has been growing fast since the 1990s.

Schools hired these officers due to concerns about school shootings and, in some places, gang violence. But a school with a school resource officer is also much more likely to refer kids to the juvenile justice system, even after controlling for outside factors, such as poverty. And nationally, the kids who are referred are disproportionately black, according to data from the Office for Civil Rights.

A 2002 study found black students are more likely to be disciplined for subjective offenses, such as defiance or loitering; white students are more likely to be disciplined for more clear-cut reasons, such as cutting class, smoking, and vandalism. And a sweeping 2012 study of discipline policies in Texas backed this up: Even after controlling for 83 other factors, black students were 31 percent more likely to be suspended for discretionary reasons, rather than because they committed infractions where suspension was a mandatory punishment. That suggests some form of implicit bias is at play that leads to harsher punishment for black students than for others.