If the world had no religion, but was founding one

[Delta4Embassy]

If the world had no religion, but was in the process of founding one, what would it be like? Assume all our knowledge now remains, but no concept of religion exists beyond however it's being defined from scratch.

Much of what became early religions was based upon ignorance of scientific processes. Without those ignorances, what might a religion be like?

 

[Ringel05]

We'd still be killing each other, stealing from each other, cheating each other and still involved in conquest for power and the spread of "our" version of scientific understanding....... And your straw man assumptions would be applied towards one or another group of scientists in fundamental disagreement over certain elements of disputed scientific evidence.
Ya know, people are involved.........

 

[Pogo]

We'd still be killing each other, stealing from each other, cheating each other and still involved in conquest for power and the spread of "our" version of scientific understanding....... And your straw man assumptions would be applied towards one or another group of scientists in fundamental disagreement over certain elements of disputed scientific evidence.
Ya know, people are involved.........

I don't think a religion has to directly address morals.

 

[Ringel05]

We'd still be killing each other, stealing from each other, cheating each other and still involved in conquest for power and the spread of "our" version of scientific understanding....... And your straw man assumptions would be applied towards one or another group of scientists in fundamental disagreement over certain elements of disputed scientific evidence.
Ya know, people are involved.........

I don't think a religion has to directly address morals.

Just referring to human nature, given that what would "religion" look like? Not much different than it looks today in most aspects only there'd be scientific sects at war with one another with the conglomeration of members easily pliable for "use" by ruthless, power hungry individuals and groups.

 

[Pogo]

We'd still be killing each other, stealing from each other, cheating each other and still involved in conquest for power and the spread of "our" version of scientific understanding....... And your straw man assumptions would be applied towards one or another group of scientists in fundamental disagreement over certain elements of disputed scientific evidence.
Ya know, people are involved.........

I don't think a religion has to directly address morals.

Just referring to human nature, given that what would "religion" look like? Not much different than it looks today in most aspects only there'd be scientific sects at war with one another with the conglomeration of members easily pliable for "use" by ruthless, power hungry individuals and groups.

I'm just sayin', if I were Chief Engineer at Religions-R-Us and we were designing a new product, it wouldn't have anything to do with power. Or with dictating how one "should" do anything. Those are fatal bugs we would fix in the latest update.

 

[Ringel05]

We'd still be killing each other, stealing from each other, cheating each other and still involved in conquest for power and the spread of "our" version of scientific understanding....... And your straw man assumptions would be applied towards one or another group of scientists in fundamental disagreement over certain elements of disputed scientific evidence.
Ya know, people are involved.........

I don't think a religion has to directly address morals.

Just referring to human nature, given that what would "religion" look like? Not much different than it looks today in most aspects only there'd be scientific sects at war with one another with the conglomeration of members easily pliable for "use" by ruthless, power hungry individuals and groups.

I'm just sayin', if I were Chief Engineer at Religions-R-Us and we were designing a new product, it wouldn't have anything to do with power. Or with dictating how one "should" do anything. Those are fatal bugs we would fix in the latest update.

The problem with theoretical "social" models is they never take human nature (personalities, dispositions, psychological aspects, etc.) into consideration. Wouldn't matter how you constructed it people would screw it up, regardless of how altruistic it's supposed to be someone(s) would find a way to manipulate it to their own ends on a micro and macro level.

 

[Carla_Danger]

I'd like to own man slaves.

 

[Avatar4321]

The world founds new religions all the time. What the world does is irrelevant. It's God founding religion that you should be concerned about.

 

[BluePhantom]

If the world had no religion, but was in the process of founding one, what would it be like? Assume all our knowledge now remains, but no concept of religion exists beyond however it's being defined from scratch.

Much of what became early religions was based upon ignorance of scientific processes. Without those ignorances, what might a religion be like?

That's a very complicated question. If you take religion out of the equation of world history, there is no telling what the world would be like today and hence it becomes impossible to try and figure out what our values and mores would be. You would have to pitch out countless centuries of hegemony by the church in the Middle Ages, the fighting in the Middle East may have still occurred but for different reasons and it probably would have been resolved long ago. Forget about the holocaust in WWII, although the Nazis would have probably just found a different demographic than the Jews to scapegoat.

My guess is it would be similar to ancient paganism, because without God to establish limitations or guidelines on behavior (speaking theologically, not historically), the gods would be created for the convenience of man and depending upon whatever was happening in society at the time. In other words, we would create gods to justify mankind's desires. Now one could argue that over the last 2,000 years Christianity has done that a lot anyhow and they would have a damn good point. One could also argue that religions that are not Judeo-Christian in nature are not necessarily immoral or an exist for the convenience of man and in some cases they would have a point as well.

It is an interesting question because it really touches in on the source of morality: i.e. does moral behavior stem from religion? People of faith argue yes. Atheists argue no...they act morally for the sake of morality itself. But they overlook that what is 'moral' is relative to the overall beliefs of a given community. As the United States is overwhelming Christian, it is the Christian traditions and definitions that have defined moral behavior in our national community. Hence, whether they believe in God or not becomes irrelevant to the question of morality as they still conform, for the most part at least, to the Christian definition.

So what's up with you, Delta? You are asking some very interesting questions lately.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

If the world had no religion, but was in the process of founding one, what would it be like? Assume all our knowledge now remains, but no concept of religion exists beyond however it's being defined from scratch.

Much of what became early religions was based upon ignorance of scientific processes. Without those ignorances, what might a religion be like?

That's a very complicated question. If you take religion out of the equation of world history, there is no telling what the world would be like today and hence it becomes impossible to try and figure out what our values and mores would be. You would have to pitch out countless centuries of hegemony by the church in the Middle Ages, the fighting in the Middle East may have still occurred but for different reasons and it probably would have been resolved long ago. Forget about the holocaust in WWII, although the Nazis would have probably just found a different demographic than the Jews to scapegoat.

My guess is it would be similar to ancient paganism, because without God to establish limitations or guidelines on behavior (speaking theologically, not historically), the gods would be created for the convenience of man and depending upon whatever was happening in society at the time. In other words, we would create gods to justify mankind's desires. Now one could argue that over the last 2,000 years Christianity has done that a lot anyhow and they would have a damn good point. One could also argue that religions that are not Judeo-Christian in nature are not necessarily immoral or an exist for the convenience of man and in some cases they would have a point as well.

It is an interesting question because it really touches in on the source of morality: i.e. does moral behavior stem from religion? People of faith argue yes. Atheists argue no...they act morally for the sake of morality itself. But they overlook that what is 'moral' is relative to the overall beliefs of a given community. As the United States is overwhelming Christian, it is the Christian traditions and definitions that have defined moral behavior in our national community. Hence, whether they believe in God or not becomes irrelevant to the question of morality as they still conform, for the most part at least, to the Christian definition.

So what's up with you, Delta? You are asking some very interesting questions lately.

Just getting old I guess. Start thinking more about the Big Questions.

 

[Carla_Danger]

If the world had no religion, but was in the process of founding one, what would it be like? Assume all our knowledge now remains, but no concept of religion exists beyond however it's being defined from scratch.

Much of what became early religions was based upon ignorance of scientific processes. Without those ignorances, what might a religion be like?

That's a very complicated question. If you take religion out of the equation of world history, there is no telling what the world would be like today and hence it becomes impossible to try and figure out what our values and mores would be. You would have to pitch out countless centuries of hegemony by the church in the Middle Ages, the fighting in the Middle East may have still occurred but for different reasons and it probably would have been resolved long ago. Forget about the holocaust in WWII, although the Nazis would have probably just found a different demographic than the Jews to scapegoat.

My guess is it would be similar to ancient paganism, because without God to establish limitations or guidelines on behavior (speaking theologically, not historically), the gods would be created for the convenience of man and depending upon whatever was happening in society at the time. In other words, we would create gods to justify mankind's desires. Now one could argue that over the last 2,000 years Christianity has done that a lot anyhow and they would have a damn good point. One could also argue that religions that are not Judeo-Christian in nature are not necessarily immoral or an exist for the convenience of man and in some cases they would have a point as well.

It is an interesting question because it really touches in on the source of morality: i.e. does moral behavior stem from religion? People of faith argue yes. Atheists argue no...they act morally for the sake of morality itself. But they overlook that what is 'moral' is relative to the overall beliefs of a given community. As the United States is overwhelming Christian, it is the Christian traditions and definitions that have defined moral behavior in our national community. Hence, whether they believe in God or not becomes irrelevant to the question of morality as they still conform, for the most part at least, to the Christian definition.

So what's up with you, Delta? You are asking some very interesting questions lately.

" As the United States is overwhelming Christian, it is the Christian traditions and definitions that have defined moral behavior in our national community."

How's that working out?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If the world had no religion, but was in the process of founding one, what would it be like? Assume all our knowledge now remains, but no concept of religion exists beyond however it's being defined from scratch.

Much of what became early religions was based upon ignorance of scientific processes. Without those ignorances, what might a religion be like?

In which case there'd be no need to start a new religion, and should be avoided at all costs.

 

[BluePhantom]

" As the United States is overwhelming Christian, it is the Christian traditions and definitions that have defined moral behavior in our national community."

How's that working out?

Depends on who you ask. I would guess that as much as some atheists love to hammer religion, they probably don't want a world where religion does not exist. There have been terrible acts that were done in the name of religion, but there have been great acts of beauty and compassion done as well. Certainly, religion has created some problems in our society, but it has also made us a nation that does some really cool stuff. When there is a natural disaster in a foreign nation, for example, it is the United States that steps up and lends assistance. We never ask to get paid for it, we just do it and we do it largely because of our morals as a community, which are largely Christian morals. When was the last time you saw China sending mass amounts of humanitarian aid to an impoverished nation? When was the last time you saw Saudi Arabia using their resources on a grand scale to assist a nation who has suffered a tsunami?

Christianity, as all religions, can create certain problems, but don't overlook the positive impacts as well.

 

[Avatar4321]

If the world had no religion, but was in the process of founding one, what would it be like? Assume all our knowledge now remains, but no concept of religion exists beyond however it's being defined from scratch.

Much of what became early religions was based upon ignorance of scientific processes. Without those ignorances, what might a religion be like?

That's a very complicated question. If you take religion out of the equation of world history, there is no telling what the world would be like today and hence it becomes impossible to try and figure out what our values and mores would be. You would have to pitch out countless centuries of hegemony by the church in the Middle Ages, the fighting in the Middle East may have still occurred but for different reasons and it probably would have been resolved long ago. Forget about the holocaust in WWII, although the Nazis would have probably just found a different demographic than the Jews to scapegoat.

My guess is it would be similar to ancient paganism, because without God to establish limitations or guidelines on behavior (speaking theologically, not historically), the gods would be created for the convenience of man and depending upon whatever was happening in society at the time. In other words, we would create gods to justify mankind's desires. Now one could argue that over the last 2,000 years Christianity has done that a lot anyhow and they would have a damn good point. One could also argue that religions that are not Judeo-Christian in nature are not necessarily immoral or an exist for the convenience of man and in some cases they would have a point as well.

It is an interesting question because it really touches in on the source of morality: i.e. does moral behavior stem from religion? People of faith argue yes. Atheists argue no...they act morally for the sake of morality itself. But they overlook that what is 'moral' is relative to the overall beliefs of a given community. As the United States is overwhelming Christian, it is the Christian traditions and definitions that have defined moral behavior in our national community. Hence, whether they believe in God or not becomes irrelevant to the question of morality as they still conform, for the most part at least, to the Christian definition.

So what's up with you, Delta? You are asking some very interesting questions lately.

" As the United States is overwhelming Christian, it is the Christian traditions and definitions that have defined moral behavior in our national community."

How's that working out?

well. Its rejecting those values that causes the problems

 

[Carla_Danger]

If the world had no religion, but was in the process of founding one, what would it be like? Assume all our knowledge now remains, but no concept of religion exists beyond however it's being defined from scratch.

Much of what became early religions was based upon ignorance of scientific processes. Without those ignorances, what might a religion be like?

That's a very complicated question. If you take religion out of the equation of world history, there is no telling what the world would be like today and hence it becomes impossible to try and figure out what our values and mores would be. You would have to pitch out countless centuries of hegemony by the church in the Middle Ages, the fighting in the Middle East may have still occurred but for different reasons and it probably would have been resolved long ago. Forget about the holocaust in WWII, although the Nazis would have probably just found a different demographic than the Jews to scapegoat.

My guess is it would be similar to ancient paganism, because without God to establish limitations or guidelines on behavior (speaking theologically, not historically), the gods would be created for the convenience of man and depending upon whatever was happening in society at the time. In other words, we would create gods to justify mankind's desires. Now one could argue that over the last 2,000 years Christianity has done that a lot anyhow and they would have a damn good point. One could also argue that religions that are not Judeo-Christian in nature are not necessarily immoral or an exist for the convenience of man and in some cases they would have a point as well.

It is an interesting question because it really touches in on the source of morality: i.e. does moral behavior stem from religion? People of faith argue yes. Atheists argue no...they act morally for the sake of morality itself. But they overlook that what is 'moral' is relative to the overall beliefs of a given community. As the United States is overwhelming Christian, it is the Christian traditions and definitions that have defined moral behavior in our national community. Hence, whether they believe in God or not becomes irrelevant to the question of morality as they still conform, for the most part at least, to the Christian definition.

So what's up with you, Delta? You are asking some very interesting questions lately.

" As the United States is overwhelming Christian, it is the Christian traditions and definitions that have defined moral behavior in our national community."

How's that working out?

well. Its rejecting those values that causes the problems

That's odd, being that the majority of this country are Christian.

 

[Carla_Danger]

" As the United States is overwhelming Christian, it is the Christian traditions and definitions that have defined moral behavior in our national community."

How's that working out?

Depends on who you ask. I would guess that as much as some atheists love to hammer religion, they probably don't want a world where religion does not exist. There have been terrible acts that were done in the name of religion, but there have been great acts of beauty and compassion done as well. Certainly, religion has created some problems in our society, but it has also made us a nation that does some really cool stuff. When there is a natural disaster in a foreign nation, for example, it is the United States that steps up and lends assistance. We never ask to get paid for it, we just do it and we do it largely because of our morals as a community, which are largely Christian morals. When was the last time you saw China sending mass amounts of humanitarian aid to an impoverished nation? When was the last time you saw Saudi Arabia using their resources on a grand scale to assist a nation who has suffered a tsunami?

Christianity, as all religions, can create certain problems, but don't overlook the positive impacts as well.

That's not true. Saudi Arabia sent $10 million to the Philippines in 2013 and China donated money, supplies, and sent their Naval hospital ship, the Peace Ark to help after the typhoon.

Humanitarian response to Typhoon Haiyan - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

China, sent US$167,000 in aid along with a 15-member rescue team which left Beijing on Sunday, 13 March 2011, with an additional pledge of RMB 30 million Chinese yuan (US$4.57 million) of humanitarian supplies announced by China's Ministry of Commerce the following day. The Chinese government decided to donate 20,000 tons of fuel consisting of 10,000 tons of gasoline and 10,000 tons of diesel. The Chinese navy hospital ship Peace Ark was standing by to assist whilst awaiting approval from Japan, but Japan declined the offer. The northeastern Chinese city of Changchun, a sister city of Sendai, sent 10 tonnes of drinking water to Japan. The provincial government of Jilin also said it will donate 100,000 U.S. dollars to the Miyagi prefecture government while the municipal government of Changchun, capital of Jilin, pledged 500,000 Renminbi to the municipal government of Sendai. A super-sized 62-meter long mechanized water-pump arm was donated by China's Sany group, along with an accompanying team of 5 engineers and consultants destined for the effort to quell the overheating and radiation problems of the crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant on 23 March 2011.

Humanitarian response to the 2011 T hoku earthquake and tsunami - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[BluePhantom]

" As the United States is overwhelming Christian, it is the Christian traditions and definitions that have defined moral behavior in our national community."

How's that working out?

Depends on who you ask. I would guess that as much as some atheists love to hammer religion, they probably don't want a world where religion does not exist. There have been terrible acts that were done in the name of religion, but there have been great acts of beauty and compassion done as well. Certainly, religion has created some problems in our society, but it has also made us a nation that does some really cool stuff. When there is a natural disaster in a foreign nation, for example, it is the United States that steps up and lends assistance. We never ask to get paid for it, we just do it and we do it largely because of our morals as a community, which are largely Christian morals. When was the last time you saw China sending mass amounts of humanitarian aid to an impoverished nation? When was the last time you saw Saudi Arabia using their resources on a grand scale to assist a nation who has suffered a tsunami?

Christianity, as all religions, can create certain problems, but don't overlook the positive impacts as well.

That's not true. Saudi Arabia sent $10 million to the Philippines in 2013 and China donated money, supplies, and sent their Naval hospital ship, the Peace Ark to help after the typhoon.

Humanitarian response to Typhoon Haiyan - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

China, sent US$167,000 in aid along with a 15-member rescue team which left Beijing on Sunday, 13 March 2011, with an additional pledge of RMB 30 million Chinese yuan (US$4.57 million) of humanitarian supplies announced by China's Ministry of Commerce the following day. The Chinese government decided to donate 20,000 tons of fuel consisting of 10,000 tons of gasoline and 10,000 tons of diesel. The Chinese navy hospital ship Peace Ark was standing by to assist whilst awaiting approval from Japan, but Japan declined the offer. The northeastern Chinese city of Changchun, a sister city of Sendai, sent 10 tonnes of drinking water to Japan. The provincial government of Jilin also said it will donate 100,000 U.S. dollars to the Miyagi prefecture government while the municipal government of Changchun, capital of Jilin, pledged 500,000 Renminbi to the municipal government of Sendai. A super-sized 62-meter long mechanized water-pump arm was donated by China's Sany group, along with an accompanying team of 5 engineers and consultants destined for the effort to quell the overheating and radiation problems of the crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant on 23 March 2011.

Humanitarian response to the 2011 T hoku earthquake and tsunami - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I said substantial, not symbolic

 

[Carla_Danger]

" As the United States is overwhelming Christian, it is the Christian traditions and definitions that have defined moral behavior in our national community."

How's that working out?

Depends on who you ask. I would guess that as much as some atheists love to hammer religion, they probably don't want a world where religion does not exist. There have been terrible acts that were done in the name of religion, but there have been great acts of beauty and compassion done as well. Certainly, religion has created some problems in our society, but it has also made us a nation that does some really cool stuff. When there is a natural disaster in a foreign nation, for example, it is the United States that steps up and lends assistance. We never ask to get paid for it, we just do it and we do it largely because of our morals as a community, which are largely Christian morals. When was the last time you saw China sending mass amounts of humanitarian aid to an impoverished nation? When was the last time you saw Saudi Arabia using their resources on a grand scale to assist a nation who has suffered a tsunami?

Christianity, as all religions, can create certain problems, but don't overlook the positive impacts as well.

That's not true. Saudi Arabia sent $10 million to the Philippines in 2013 and China donated money, supplies, and sent their Naval hospital ship, the Peace Ark to help after the typhoon.

Humanitarian response to Typhoon Haiyan - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

China, sent US$167,000 in aid along with a 15-member rescue team which left Beijing on Sunday, 13 March 2011, with an additional pledge of RMB 30 million Chinese yuan (US$4.57 million) of humanitarian supplies announced by China's Ministry of Commerce the following day. The Chinese government decided to donate 20,000 tons of fuel consisting of 10,000 tons of gasoline and 10,000 tons of diesel. The Chinese navy hospital ship Peace Ark was standing by to assist whilst awaiting approval from Japan, but Japan declined the offer. The northeastern Chinese city of Changchun, a sister city of Sendai, sent 10 tonnes of drinking water to Japan. The provincial government of Jilin also said it will donate 100,000 U.S. dollars to the Miyagi prefecture government while the municipal government of Changchun, capital of Jilin, pledged 500,000 Renminbi to the municipal government of Sendai. A super-sized 62-meter long mechanized water-pump arm was donated by China's Sany group, along with an accompanying team of 5 engineers and consultants destined for the effort to quell the overheating and radiation problems of the crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant on 23 March 2011.

Humanitarian response to the 2011 T hoku earthquake and tsunami - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I said substantial, not symbolic

Turkey has become the third most generous country in the world with its $1.6 billion in humanitarian aid in 2014, after the United States and the United Kingdom, which gave $4.7 and $1.8 billion in humanitarian aid respectively.

Turkey even surpassed Japan and Germany, which gave $1.1 billion and $949 million respectively in aid in the same year, according to the Global Humanitarian Assistance Report.

The humanitarian assistance given by Turkey corresponds to 0.21 percent of its gross national income (GNI), which ranks Turkey top of the list of donors. The same figure is 0.03 percent for the U.S. and 0.07 percent for the U.K.

Turkey ranks 3rd most generous donor country - DIPLOMACY


Isn't 99% of the population in Turkey, Muslim? Apparently you don't have to be a Christian nation to send a substantial amount of humanitarian aid.

I agree that China is a little stingy with humanitarian aid. You're right, their donations were more symbolic.

 

[amrchaos]

There is one thing I do like about us humans:Some of us will band together against a universal problem.

So, even in the case of widespread crime and evil, a few will come together and either shun the evil doers or fight/suppress the others.