If The Results Are Already In....

[Modbert]

See my replies in bold.

1.)

Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other.[1] The term most often refers to the combination of two principles: secularity of government and freedom of religious exercise

- Wikipedia

2.) Because it's hypocrisy. She is for it when it comes to the people she is trying to get votes for but when it comes to the 2nd highest office in the land she flip flops?

3.) Hello, she believes in drilling our Environment that was clearly and specifically marked as a refuge for animals like Polar Bears because of oil. You'd care if you were in the animals shoes. How about you allow her to drill for oil where you live, not a big difference is there?

4.) Hillary isn't running as far as I know. Joe Biden has over 30+ years of Foreign Policy. Barack Obama has been to several countries throughout the world, knows what it is like to live in other countries, and has met with several leaders of the world.

5.) If someone says they're going to take on drugs but the problem only gets worse. Then what have they solved when it comes to drugs? I dunno if you realize this but since Nixon started his war on drugs in 1971, we've had mostly Republican presidents and Drugs are now more widespread, cheap, and easy to get now more then ever.

 

[DarkHalo]

I'm not scared of her, I'm scared of the vision of her sitting in the oval office.

No doubt that sends you into the same sort of panic as the vision of Hillary in the Oval Office does to me.

 

[jillian]

Some might postulate that the lefts political beliefs are the same as religious beliefs. Lets take environmentalism as an example. Global warming has become a 'religion' for many with AlGore as the high priest.

And again i say that the so called separation of church and state is a fiction of activist judges.

Now don't get me wrong as I am not a Christian and have no religious leanings of any sort. I would be the last one wanting to see any sort of religion creep into our government. Matter of fact that is exactly why I left the Republican party almost 20 years ago. I saw the fundamentalists getting wayyy too much power in the party.

But Democrat 'fundamentalists' (IE environmentalists) are really just as bad IMO.

Stop it! That's EXACTLY the right wing drivel I'm talking about. Religion is religion. Science is science. Up is up and down is down.

I'd get into the whole activist judge postulate, but I'm afarid you'd toss more right wing propaganda at me. It's actually an interesting discussion since the right is far more "activist" than the left. And it's the extreme right who wants to change the way the constitution has been interpreted since Marbury v Madison.

If you don't want more religion creeping into your government, I'd suggest that you not vote for someone who thinks G-d is going to rapture her up while the earth burns.

And calling environmentalists "fundamentalists" because YOU want to, again, confuse issues, is beside the point.

You're jumbling all of your issues together.

 

[Diuretic]

No doubt that sends you into the same sort of panic as the vision of Hillary in the Oval Office does to me.

Can we compare medication then?

 

[del]

Actually, it's EXACTLY what I think it is.

And I don't believe religious people should be excluded from the democratic process. They should certainly vote and speak their POLITICAL piece like anyone else. But when you take Christian dogma and try to legislate it into law, then they violate MY right to practice MY beliefs without THEIR interference.

And that's because freedom OF religion is also freedome FROM religion.

Where do YOU think the line is drawn?

what do you think it is?

 

[jillian]

what do you think it is?

what? freedom of religion?

I thought I already said ...

if you want more detail, i'm afraid it will have to wait cause i have to run.

 

[del]

what? freedom of religion?

I thought I already said ...

if you want more detail, i'm afraid it will have to wait cause i have to run.

if you did, I didn't see it, I'll check back later
thanks

 

[Navy1960]

Actually, it's EXACTLY what I think it is.

And I don't believe religious people should be excluded from the democratic process. They should certainly vote and speak their POLITICAL piece like anyone else. But when you take Christian dogma and try to legislate it into law, then they violate MY right to practice MY beliefs without THEIR interference.

And that's because freedom OF religion is also freedome FROM religion.

Where do YOU think the line is drawn?

"Among the most inestimable of our blessings, also, is that... of liberty to worship our Creator in the way we think most agreeable to His will; a liberty deemed in other countries incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be its best support." --Thomas Jefferson

"One of the amendments to the Constitution... expressly declares that 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press,' thereby guarding in the same sentence and under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the press; insomuch that whatever violates either throws down the sanctuary which covers the others." --Thomas Jefferson

Think it's pretty clear that the founders of this country established this nation on Christian Principles , however they were smart enough to realize that you as a citizen were to free to worship in whatever manner you so choose or not and that the Governement would NOT make a law in respect to the establishment of a religion or forbid anyone from it's practice.

 

[Shadow]

How is there not much to back it up?

She doesn't believe in reproductive choice, even in the face of rape and incest.

I could go through all of her other extremist ideas, but that one's pretty much a deal-breaker for me.

And picking her to get the "hillary women" was truly offensive... as if all we wanted to see was a female in office.

You of course you are stating her "personal" opinion... not anything she has supported or applied while she was Governor of Alaska.

 

[Shadow]

You want to know why I think she is ?


She is against Gay Marriage and giving Homosexuals partners the same benefits that a married spouse would get. (This directly opposes the Seperation of Church/State since there is no reason for her to say it's wrong other then what she believes.)


She believes in drilling the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and wants to take Polar Bears off the endangered species list so she can go drill in places where Polar Bears are.

She is a huge supporter of conservation and knows (since you apparently do not) how to use conservation and drilling together to benefit wildlife as well as our energy needs.

She has passed civil union legislation in Alaska.

 

[Silence]

Obama is, according to the left, the most miraculous amazing politician to come along. We are hearing things like, "a man like this only comes along once in a generation," that he was sent by God...he gives speeches that supposedly seasoned news reporters say is the most important speech of our lifetimes...equal to the speeches of men whose fame and importance have been proven over the course of time and history...

that's an interesting take on it Gem.....

Abe Lincoln - Gettsburg Address 11/19/1863....

Kennedy's "ask not what your country can do for you" speech was life changing for the people who heard it on Jan 20, 1961...

MLK I have a dream speech 8/28/1963

These are speechs that mark a time in history and are ingrained in the fabric of our lives because they sparked the imagination of the people.

Perhaps the excitement over Obama is due to the fact that no politican or national leader has come along in a generation to touch the hearts and minds of America the way Obama seems to have done. He moves people with his words. Inspires people to believe that we CAN achieve anything.

if you don't believe it, that's your right.

I'm almost 40 and he's the first politician to actually make me hopeful that a better tomorrow IS possible.

 

[Isolde]

Actually, it's EXACTLY what I think it is.

And I don't believe religious people should be excluded from the democratic process. They should certainly vote and speak their POLITICAL piece like anyone else. But when you take Christian dogma and try to legislate it into law, then they violate MY right to practice MY beliefs without THEIR interference.

And that's because freedom OF religion is also freedome FROM religion.

Where do YOU think the line is drawn?

The fact is we are a nation of laws. The laws are based on morality, whether that morality comes from religious faith or a purely human instinct, it's irrelevant.

As far as any political expression of mine impacting your right to practice your religion, you're going to have to give me an example of one. I know of none.

 

[dilloduck]

that's an interesting take on it Gem.....

Abe Lincoln - Gettsburg Address 11/19/1963....

Kennedy's "ask not what your country can do for you" speech was life changing for the people who heard it on Jan 20, 1961...

MLK I have a dream speech 8/28/1963

These are speechs that mark a time in history and are ingrained in the fabric of our lives because they sparked the imagination of the people.

Perhaps the excitement over Obama is due to the fact that no politican or national leader has come along in a generation to touch the hearts and minds of America the way Obama seems to have done. He moves people with his words. Inspires people to believe that we CAN achieve anything.

if you don't believe it, that's your right.

I'm almost 40 and he's the first politician to actually make me hopeful that a better tomorrow IS possible.

The perfect useful idiot---vote with your emotions.

 

[Chris]

that's an interesting take on it Gem.....

Abe Lincoln - Gettsburg Address 11/19/1963....

Kennedy's "ask not what your country can do for you" speech was life changing for the people who heard it on Jan 20, 1961...

MLK I have a dream speech 8/28/1963

These are speechs that mark a time in history and are ingrained in the fabric of our lives because they sparked the imagination of the people.

Perhaps the excitement over Obama is due to the fact that no politican or national leader has come along in a generation to touch the hearts and minds of America the way Obama seems to have done. He moves people with his words. Inspires people to believe that we CAN achieve anything.

if you don't believe it, that's your right.

I'm almost 40 and he's the first politician to actually make me hopeful that a better tomorrow IS possible.

Amen, sister.

 

[Modbert]

The perfect useful idiot---vote with your emotions.

Which is what all these "energized" members of the GOP are doing then since Palin joined the ticket.

 

[DarkHalo]

Stop it! That's EXACTLY the right wing drivel I'm talking about. Religion is religion. Science is science. Up is up and down is down.

I'd get into the whole activist judge postulate, but I'm afarid you'd toss more right wing propaganda at me. It's actually an interesting discussion since the right is far more "activist" than the left. And it's the extreme right who wants to change the way the constitution has been interpreted since Marbury v Madison.

If you don't want more religion creeping into your government, I'd suggest that you not vote for someone who thinks G-d is going to rapture her up while the earth burns.

And calling environmentalists "fundamentalists" because YOU want to, again, confuse issues, is beside the point.

You're jumbling all of your issues together.

My my...you disagree with me so you try to shout me down to shut me up? So very tolerant of you. Whats next calling me a racist or a nazi?

Google 'Godwins Law' if you are unfamiliar with it.

 

[Ninja]

Watching the Leftists squirm = ME LIKEY

 

[Modbert]

My my...you disagree with me so you try to shout me down to shut me up? So very tolerant of you. Whats next calling me a racist or a nazi?

Google 'Godwins Law' if you are unfamiliar with it.

1.) I truly doubt your a Conservative Independent. The "Independents" I see on this board are usually Republicans who never have a bad thing to say about the GOP except Bush who is currently the GOP's scapegoat in blaming problems so John McCain can bring forth "change" to the country.
(Which btw is a bunch of bull on the John McCain bringing "change" part)

2.) You don't bring up Godwin's Law unless it's already been brought up into the conversation.

View attachment $You%20fail%20at%20Internet.bmp

Btw, your the one who brought it up. So therefore, you just made yourself look like a fool.

 

[AllieBaba]

My my...you disagree with me so you try to shout me down to shut me up? So very tolerant of you. Whats next calling me a racist or a nazi?

Google 'Godwins Law' if you are unfamiliar with it.

You figured them out right quick, good for you.

 

[DarkHalo]

Watching the Leftists squirm = ME LIKEY

I am actually pleasantly surprised by this forum. Normally any place where lefties congregate a conservative will be banned immediately for voicing an opinion not in lock step with the hive mind. They will gloss over the lack of freedom of speech by insisting it is a privately owned site....unlike those privately owned golf clubs, country clubs or military schools where they force their agenda on others. This could be quite interesting.