If the Pope Dies, and goes to Hell..

[dmp]

I don't get here from there. Who's 'interpreting' now? :scratch:

Then why don't you explain how the verses I quoted are describing a baptism?

 

[-Cp]

"unless a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of heaven"

Does this mean you think that only "born again" Christians will be allowed in the kingdom?

Doesn't matter what I think or you think - that's what it says...

 

[Annie]

Then why don't you explain how the verses I quoted are describing a baptism?

The following are all part of the sacraments of both Baptism and Confirmation:

5Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10“You are Israel's teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.[d] 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]

16“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.

 

[Said1]

I'm still not sure what you are writing about and/or what you mean. I didn't quote text - I paraphrased text, although I used quotations to show it wasn't 'darin's ideas' I was spouting...then you asked, seemingly out of the blue "Who is the false profit [sic]?"

Then maybe "Darin" should look it up. Then "Darin" can praphrase that text too.

 

[dmp]

The following are all part of the sacraments of both Baptism and Confirmation:

[/B]

Okay - but how is that suggesting: "to be saved, one needs to be baptised and confirmed"?

We are all born of water - That's the fluid our mothers create in her womb. Christ is saying, we need to have our spirit renewed - reborn as it were...that's the Spirital Rebirth required to see the Kingdom.

 

[dmp]

Then maybe "Darin" should look it up. Then "Darin" can praphrase that text too.

What would you like me to look up? I'm still confused as to what your point is, and why you are trying to debate what I stated without asking relevant questions...please help me understand what you mean...Are you asking me to look up 'The False Prophet'?

 

[freeandfun1]

Yup, I do believe that is what they are saying.

Since that verse is right out of the NT, it is not "they" that are saying it, it is what the Bible says. "Born Again" means finding and accepting Christ as your one and only saviour.

 

[freeandfun1]

Who is the false profit. Loud enough?

The False Prophet and Anti-Chirst will not be revealed until the AofD.

 

[Said1]

What would you like me to look up? I'm still confused as to what your point is, and why you are trying to debate what I stated without asking relevant questions...please help me understand what you mean...Are you asking me to look up 'The False Prophet'?

Mathew 7:15 which comes before Mathew 7:22.

 

[dmp]

The False Prophet and Anti-Chirst will not be revealed until the AofD.

AofD??

 

[dmp]

Mathew 7:15 which comes before Mathew 7:22.

...and why would you like me to quote what that says? It wasn't relevant to what I was saying on page 1 of this topic.

But to satisfy you, here! enjoy!

15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

 

[-Cp]

About God, being born again and Christianity in general....

My personal belief, whatever it is worth, is that more important than what you personally believe about God, more important than what place of worship you go to or how often you go there.... all of these things...

YOUR ACTIONS, YOUR STRUGGLES, YOUR DEEDS matter more than anything else. Your contribution to the spread of good and the defeat of evil on this earth is the most important thing in life and I think this is what God looks at. If you worship an almighty God (whatever you may call him and however you worship him (on a Friday, a Sunday, with fire and smoke, or with incense and cypress seeds, whatever) and in the course of your life you treat others with fairness, peace and kindness, you are doing good in the world, you are helping pursue God's vision of humanity, you are helping to defeat evil.

The Pope did far too much good in this world to go to hell. The God I believe in would not punish a man who had risked his life to help others, who had used all his worldly privelage and influence to improve and save lives and had risked criticism and denouncement by trying to help develop friendship between religions, ethnic groups and others who often violently clash.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (New International Version)

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God– 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Again, I'm not asking you to like what the Bible says.... however, that doesn't preclude it from being truth...

 

[Said1]

...and why would you like me to quote what that says? It wasn't relevant to what I was saying on page 1 of this topic.

But to satisfy you, here! enjoy!

So, who is the false prophet?

 

[Annie]

Okay - but how is that suggesting: "to be saved, one needs to be baptised and confirmed"?

We are all born of water - That's the fluid our mothers create in her womb. Christ is saying, we need to have our spirit renewed - reborn as it were...that's the Spirital Rebirth required to see the Kingdom.

We are probably not going to have a meeting of the minds here, why not? I'm not sure. Seems to me that the people who are shouting 'born again' have something in mind they are not explaining.

If one is baptised, chooses to renew that baptism at confirmation, what is this difference you are trying to throw up? It has been plain for years that most evangelicals do not understand Catholic traditions, nigh, disagree with them in a way that Luther, Mather, and Nieder never would have. With that said, still am confused at your contempt of the Pope, Catholics in general.

Funny thing, I've never known a Catholic that thought that Protestants might go to hell for their religion...

 

[freeandfun1]

AofD??

"Abomination of Desolation"

When the anti-Christ takes his seat in the Temple Mount and declares himself God.

 

[freeandfun1]

We are probably not going to have a meeting of the minds here, why not? I'm not sure. Seems to me that the people who are shouting 'born again' have something in mind they are not explaining.

If one is baptised, chooses to renew that baptism at confirmation, what is this difference you are trying to throw up? It has been plain for years that most evangelicals do not understand Catholic traditions, nigh, disagree with them in a way that Luther, Mather, and Nieder never would have. With that said, still am confused at your contempt of the Pope, Catholics in general.

Funny thing, I've never known a Catholic that thought that Protestants might go to hell for their religion...

My understanding (correct me if I am wrong) is that Catholics are Preterists. Which means, they believe the Rapture occured in 70 A.D. and that there will not be a "second coming" of Christ as it has already occured.

 

[Annie]

My understanding (correct me if I am wrong) is that Catholics are Preterists. Which means, they believe the Rapture occured in 70 A.D. and that there will not be a "second coming" of Christ as it has already occured.

Truly Free, I haven't a clue.

 

[dmp]

We are probably not going to have a meeting of the minds here, why not? I'm not sure. Seems to me that the people who are shouting 'born again' have something in mind they are not explaining.

If one is baptised, chooses to renew that baptism at confirmation, what is this difference you are trying to throw up? It has been plain for years that most evangelicals do not understand Catholic traditions, nigh, disagree with them in a way that Luther, Mather, and Nieder never would have. With that said, still am confused at your contempt of the Pope, Catholics in general.

Funny thing, I've never known a Catholic that thought that Protestants might go to hell for their religion...

I think nobody will go to hell based on their religion. People will go to hell based on whether or not they accepted Christ thru a renewing of their spirit...and spiritually became born-again. No tradition or action or repetitive chants or burned offering or any such man-made method will work. The only simple, sure way to find Christ is by asking Him something like the following:

Yo..Christ...Jesus. I'm lost without you - I know I have and do sin. I believe you when you said you are the Christ, and I believe you died so to recieve the punishment for my sin I was due. Please, Lord, Forgive my sins; help me and renew my spirit. Holy Spirit I ask for your presence and guidance each day. Thanks...I can't make it without you; I don't want to be apart for you.

That's it. Of course there are variations, but the idea is to TALK to Christ; proclaim your belief in Him; Ask his Forgiveness and to be renewed in Spirit. Then - do it. Live your life in prayer and contemplation of Christ. Learn to listen to His voice in your life. That sorta thing.

Contempt? Where have I issued statements of contempt? Don't read into things...please.

 

[Annie]

I think nobody will go to hell based on their religion. People will go to hell based on whether or not they accepted Christ thru a renewing of their spirit...and spiritually became born-again. No tradition or action or repetitive chants or burned offering or any such man-made method will work. The only simple, sure way to find Christ is by asking Him something like the following:

Yo..Christ...Jesus. I'm lost without you - I know I have and do sin. I believe you when you said you are the Christ, and I believe you died so to recieve the punishment for my sin I was due. Please, Lord, Forgive my sins; help me and renew my spirit. Holy Spirit I ask for your presence and guidance each day. Thanks...I can't make it without you; I don't want to be apart for you.

That's it. Of course there are variations, but the idea is to TALK to Christ; proclaim your belief in Him; Ask his Forgiveness and to be renewed in Spirit. Then - do it. Live your life in prayer and contemplation of Christ. Learn to listen to His voice in your life. That sorta thing.

Contempt? Where have I issued statements of contempt? Don't read into things...please.

-=D=- in all honesty, how could one take the title of this thread any other way? What you refer to as "repetitive chants or burned offering " have no way as offerings, etc. They are traditional ways of helping one get 'quiet' and 'contemplative' to 'talk' to the Lord through prayer.

These are not 'required' in any sense. I do not fault anyone who doesn't use them, but to ridicule what one doesn't know, well that isn't necessarily the best way to evangelize either.

 

[dmp]

-=D=- in all honesty, how could one take the title of this thread any other way? What you refer to as "repetitive chants or burned offering " have no way as offerings, etc. They are traditional ways of helping one get 'quiet' and 'contemplative' to 'talk' to the Lord through prayer.

"What if the Pope goes to hell?"

It's a serious question - which brought for the topic: Even our Spiritual Leaders may not see heaven.

These are not 'required' in any sense. I do not fault anyone who doesn't use them, but to ridicule what one doesn't know, well that isn't necessarily the best way to evangelize either.

I was just rambling off the top of my head - to show that nothing we 'do' can bring us to Christ...only that we believe and ask Him. Ridicule? Wha? Is it ridicule to say the very same thing you just wrote; none of those 'traditions' will lead you to christ? Cuz..if you re-read...that's what I wrote.