If the Pope Dies, and goes to Hell..

[NATO AIR]

About God, being born again and Christianity in general....

My personal belief, whatever it is worth, is that more important than what you personally believe about God, more important than what place of worship you go to or how often you go there.... all of these things...

YOUR ACTIONS, YOUR STRUGGLES, YOUR DEEDS matter more than anything else. Your contribution to the spread of good and the defeat of evil on this earth is the most important thing in life and I think this is what God looks at. If you worship an almighty God (whatever you may call him and however you worship him (on a Friday, a Sunday, with fire and smoke, or with incense and cypress seeds, whatever) and in the course of your life you treat others with fairness, peace and kindness, you are doing good in the world, you are helping pursue God's vision of humanity, you are helping to defeat evil.

The Pope did far too much good in this world to go to hell. The God I believe in would not punish a man who had risked his life to help others, who had used all his worldly privelage and influence to improve and save lives and had risked criticism and denouncement by trying to help develop friendship between religions, ethnic groups and others who often violently clash.

 

[dmp]

So who is the false prophet?

eh? What?

 

[dmp]

"unless a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of heaven"

Does this mean you think that only "born again" Christians will be allowed in the kingdom?

Yup. The Bible if VERY clear on this: Unless a Man find Christ (be 're-born in spirit) he/she will not see Heaven.

 

[dmp]

to both Said1 and Joan. Appointing themselves God.

Please explain how quoting "God" is "appointing myself God"?

Ready....Go!

 

[Said1]

eh? What?

Who is the false profit. Loud enough?

 

[Said1]

Yup. The Bible if VERY clear on this: Unless a Man find Christ (be 're-born in spirit) he/she will not see Heaven.

I believe the above passage applies to non-christians, and those who haven't received the sacrements, or those have, but are are lost in "sin".

 

[dmp]

Who is the false profit. Loud enough?

You mean THE False Prophet? As in the book of "Revelation"? If I find out, I'll let you know

lol

 

[dmp]

I believe the above passage applies to non-christians, and those who haven't received the sacrements, or those have, but are are lost in "sin".

sacrements?

what's that?

This is what's needed to find Christ....

"Believe in Him...and what He said and Did."

This is the way to Heaven...

Find Christ.

That's everything which is required. No more, No less. There are many people who are religious and haven't pieced that together; thus, dispite their good works they aren't likely to know God.

 

[Annie]

Yup. The Bible if VERY clear on this: Unless a Man find Christ (be 're-born in spirit) he/she will not see Heaven.

1 Peter 1:23 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever

Went with your version. Seems to me he is speaking of Jesus, what are you speaking of?

 

[Said1]

You mean THE False Prophet? As in the book of "Revelation"? If I find out, I'll let you know

lol

Eh? What? I'm talking about the passage you were quoting. LOL.

 

[Said1]

what's that?

This is what's needed to find Christ....

Do a google search.

"Believe in Him...and what He said and Did."

This is the way to Heaven...

Find Christ.

That's everything which is required. No more, No less. There are many people who are religious and haven't pieced that together; thus, dispite their good works they aren't likely to know God.

Eh? What?

 

[Joan]

It's all in the interpretation - I was raised to believe that all those that accepted Jesus as the Saviour would be with him one day. And on the other hand, I know a couple of "born again" christians that cannot make it through the day without downing at least a fifth of vodka - so are they okay doing these things I ask you mr. -d- (oh yes, and I must add, the occasional wacky tobaccy)

 

[dmp]

1 Peter 1:23 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever

Went with your version. Seems to me he is speaking of Jesus, what are you speaking of?

I don't have a version...and if I were to 'pick one' it wouldn't be king james.

Speaking of Jesus??? He's speaking of 'everyone'...

Here's Christ Himself on the subject, Book of John, Chapter 3, NIV:

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]”

4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!”

5Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10“You are Israel's teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.[d] 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]

16“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.


Footnotes:

a. John 3:3 Or born from above; also in verse 7
b. John 3:6 Or but spirit
c. John 3:7 The Greek is plural.
d. John 3:13 Some manuscripts Man, who is in heaven
e. John 3:15 Or believes may have eternal life in him
f. John 3:16 Or his only begotten Son
g. John 3:18 Or God's only begotten Son

 

[dmp]

Do a google search.



Eh? What?

I never mentioned The false Prophet...you did.

 

[dmp]

It's all in the interpretation - I was raised to believe that all those that accepted Jesus as the Saviour would be with him one day. And on the other hand, I know a couple of "born again" christians that cannot make it through the day without downing at least a fifth of vodka - so are they okay doing these things I ask you mr. -d- (oh yes, and I must add, the occasional wacky tobaccy)

A person who IS Born-Again isn't sinproof. They are people who submit to Christ. I cannot see their hearts, therefore I cannot pass judgement on if they are 'okay' doing whatever...I 'can' remind them, and anyone who reads this, what the Bible teaches us. Beyond that, people must weigh their behaviour choices against Biblical teaching, and decide if what they are doing is sinful, then be prepared to give an account/take responsibility. God doesn't 'punish' us because of our sins...our sins 'remove us' from being able to share his Presence.

 

[Annie]

I don't have a version...and if I were to 'pick one' it wouldn't be king james.

Speaking of Jesus??? He's speaking of 'everyone'...

Here's Christ Himself on the subject, Book of John, Chapter 3, NIV:

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]”

4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!”

5Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10“You are Israel's teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.[d] 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]

16“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.

And this is not baptism? This is not confirmation?

 

[Said1]

I never mentioned The false Prophet...you did.

Oh, ok. I was refering to Mathew 7:15. Ya know, before Mathew 7:22, what you quoted. Big difference I guess. :huh: I prefer to look at the whole verse instead of the part I like best, but I'm wacky that way.

 

[dmp]

And this is not baptism? This is not confirmation?

Yes. That is 'not' baptism. Not comfirmation. This is about a renewing of one's spirit based upon a choice to Follow Christ...a renewal, as if one is reborn.

 

[dmp]

Oh, ok. I was refering to Mathew 7:15. Ya know, before Mathew 7:22, what you quoted. Big difference I guess. :huh: I prefer to look at the whole verse instead of the part I like best, but I'm wacky that way.

I'm still not sure what you are writing about and/or what you mean. I didn't quote text - I paraphrased text, although I used quotations to show it wasn't 'darin's ideas' I was spouting...then you asked, seemingly out of the blue "Who is the false profit [sic]?"


This is the scripture I was referencing...I didn't know it was in Mathew...but it follows my point that not all those who profess Christ 'know' Christ.

Mat 7
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[Annie]

Yes. That is 'not' baptism. Not comfirmation. This is about a renewing of one's spirit based upon a choice to Follow Christ...a renewal, as if one is reborn.

I don't get here from there. Who's 'interpreting' now? :scratch: