If the bailout passes, this country dies

Discussion in 'Economy' started by VOY, Sep 30, 2008.

  1. VOY
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    VOY Rookie

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    I don't know how many others can see the catastrophic situation we're about to put ourselves in, but I'm hoping like hell that the ones who actually vote on this thing are some of them.

    This bill will do absolutely NOTHING to save us from the situation we're in, only delay it, and not even for that long. We're talking months, maybe a year or two, before everything comes crashing down hard. This bill does not get rid of the Community Reinvestment Act, it does not get rid of the far left liberals who played a very significant role in getting us into this miss with all of their passed laws to help get all of the bums of this country into houses, and it does not get rid of the lenders who absolutely destroyed the credit market with their terrible loan practices (which were not only encouraged but nearly coerced by the liberal government).

    In the end, we'll simply be in the same exact spot we are now, only with $700 billion less and $4 trillion more national debt (and that's just to start).

    If this bill passes, it will be the end of America as a superpower forever, possibly even the end of America as any kind of power.
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  2. VOY
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    VOY Rookie

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    If you're not convinced yet, think about this one simple fact: The $700 bailout plan is not being proposed in order to save actual real money being lost. The plan is designed to save this nation's credit! I.E. we're only simply trying to save our continued ability to borrow against even more money we don't have! How in the world can anyone possibly think this is a good idea??
  3. Mad Scientist
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    Mad Scientist Subtle like a Nuclear Weapon! Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Which we will continue to do after this bill passes. You're absolutely right! The mechanisms that put us here have to be addressed and I don't see that happening in Congress.
  4. user_name_guest
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    user_name_guest Member

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    I am for it. Time for real change. Get rid of the Federal Gov't, end the corruption of special interests.
  5. VOY
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    VOY Rookie

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    How do you think this bailout is going to do any of that? You ask to get rid of the federal government, but you support a bill that will make our government the largest real estate corporation in the world? How does that make any sense?

    And what about special interests? You don't think there are going to be areas ALL OVER this $700 billion bill for special interests to sneak their hands in? $700 billion is a LOT of money with a LOT of ways for people to slip in their own greedy little hands to grab some without anyone noticing.

    Real change? How is this changing anything? We had all of this money, then we lost it because of bad business practices and bad government policies. Now we're simply refilling the coffers a bit without actually changing any of the policies and without removing any of the bad businesses from the equation. The only thing we're doing is refilling their bank accounts so they can do it again!
  6. user_name_guest
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    user_name_guest Member

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    If they pass this bill, it isn't going to solve a thing. This crisis will affect us all one way or another. During this time, a revolt against the Federal Government could occur. Instability feeds revolutionary activities. If they pass this bill, they add $700 billion in liabilities. Add social security in 2010 (more going out than in), revenue dropped because of a drop in employment and income. We are setting a course for a revolutionary change in this country. The flood gates are opening. A collapse is needed. Maybe people will open their eyes and realize the scam that Congress has pulled. Why bailout certain institutions? Why put $700 billion of money of taxpayers to try and slow down what is eventually a economic killer. Federal Reserve has made available $630 billion to the banks. I wonder what effect that will have along with the rising gas prices. Turmoil = Instability. We are witnessing history. The beginning...of the end.
  7. VOY
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    VOY Rookie

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    So if I'm reading this right, then you're hoping for this country's failure and our fall into chaos? Why in the hell would you want that?

    You're starting to sound like one of the revolutionary whackjobs who lives in a hut in the woods and plans governmental takeover with 12 of his rifle-wielding buddies. Makes me wonder how you access the internet to post here.
  8. WillowTree
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    WillowTree Senior Member

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    it just might take something as severe as failure to shake up the fucktards we call government.
  9. VOY
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    VOY Rookie

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    A distinct difference between looking for a shakeup in government and hoping for the complete failure and fall of it.

    I'm not exactly looking forward to living in a country that resembles those of the middle east any time soon.
  10. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    Then why do you take the positions you do?
  11. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Gold Member

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    multi-culturalism---gotta live like em to understand them :lol:
  12. p kirkes
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    p kirkes Member

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    The banking crisis and the administrations inept and inadequate proposal to deal with it is very disappointing. I am genuinely concerned that the Executive and Legislative branches of the federal government do not have the stomach, the will or the intellectual capital to resolve any of America's problems, namely: social security, health care costs, war powers, debt, budget, social security, et al.


    I no longer have any faith in the Federal Government.

    I'm for a change. The Constitution, as wonderful a document as it is, does not protect the citizens from a government that has evolved over the life of this nation to one of not representing the people, at least it's obvious to me.

    I quote from the declaration of Independence "...that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed - That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government....".

    My recommendation for a first approach is "to alter", failing that then it's time for the second "to abolish" this defective and destructive government.

    The Fed's had better start listening or as Voy put it "everything comes crashing down".

    It's late going to bed now.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2008
  13. user_name_guest
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    user_name_guest Member

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    Sounds scary. Remember the 1920s. Jews were the scape goats of bad economic times and losing WWI. Bad economic instability typically launches men like Adolf Hitler. I am not a revolutionary whackjobs. You can reach more people in the streets than the Internet. Do you see the politicians debating on forum boards?

    Has people ever experience the crash of 1987, the depression of the late 20s and 1930s, the inflationary and unemployment time of the 1970s and early 1980s, the Internet bubble burst (oh wait, government tried to intervene there, wow). Recessions come and go. You aren't going to prevent an economic collapse. Spending $700 billion bailing out companies that failed isn't going to solve the problem that lead to it. How do we prevent future catastrophe, we learn from our mistakes and make sure it never happens again. But we ask ourselves, why has credit crises occur every several decades? If it happened before, why is it happening now. We aren't going to know the whole truth, and nothing but the truth from Washington. If we did, there would be an end of the "lesser than two evils" ordeal come election time. We can go back to the great depression days and see that it took a World War to lift our country from the bottom of the economic food chain. Then again, government didn't spend enough to the demand of the economists.
  14. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    I think this nation is going broke, that's for damned sure.

    the Neo-cns won.

    The libertopians are going to finally get to see what a society run by for-profit corporations really looks like.

    I suspect they're going to be shocked how intrusive private industry really is to their FREEDOMS that they feel this government has been taking from them.

    I suspect a LOT of them are inevitably going to realize that a powerful organization like a government, one which they have some small measure of control over business is far better than having to deal with the fiat power and control systems one finds in corporations which are free to conduct busines in any way they choose.

    You get a license to carry on the street of America?

    Yeah, right, well you don't have a license to carry on some corporations PRIVATE PROPERTY, gun-smart guys.

    Freedom of speech in America?

    Yeah, well you'd best keep your mouth shut if you want that job in that libertopian corporate world you're all thinking is a bastion of freedom.

    Take a look at how much freedom you really have ON THE JOB and now imagine what its like when that's how much freedom y0ou have in the COMPANY TOWN you live in.

    I'm originally from the coal mining regions of NE Pennyslvania.

    Those people lived in something apporaching that laisse fair LIBERTOPIA some of you imagine you want. They lived in company towns.

    It was no paradise for anyone involved, believe me.

    You've hear of the Molly McQuires, right?

    People do not like being treated like slaves, folks.

    Sooner or later they fight back.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2008
  15. KMAN
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    KMAN Senior Member

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    FYI - You know nothing about conservatives. If you did you would also know how stupid your comments about them sound.
  16. Bern80
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    Bern80 Senior Member

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    So your solution is companies should not be allowed to turn profits? In some fucked up reality of yours you the consumer should get to set the price someone can charge for something you want?

    One, government has shown that it is capable of being just as corupt as business, so why you trust them to watch your back is beyond me. Two, You DO have a modicum of control over businesses, if you don't like the price or quality of their product don't buy it. Three, I don't see many people arguing for no government regulation in the first place. The question is are we regulated to the point that it's doing more harm than good, and in some cases it very much is.

    What is the point of this statement? It's called private property rights. The owner of any property whether it's YOUR home or private office gets to tell people what they can and can't do on their property.

    So even though a company hired someone because they apparently possess a skill they need they're just going to start firing people willy nilly for no reason?


    Take a look at how much the avg company spoils its employees above and beyond what government requires (2 fifteen minute breaks or half hour lunch for 8 hours of work is the requirement). Most will pay at least 2 weeks a year TO NOT BE AT WORK. Think about that concept for a second companies actually pay to lose productivity for two weeks out of the year. They pay almost all of your healthcare costs, etc. They do all kinds of things to attract quality employees. On-site daycare, discounted gym memberships, etc.

    Are there a few greedy corporations out there to the detriment of their employees, yes. Has government been part of the problem, also yes. But a big part of the problem are people like you with your warped sense of reality. You take all these things for granted, you blame everyone else, you play the victim and make excuses and have this entitlement mentality. You focus your ire on everything else, but the one thing you really have control over, YOU.

    Isn't it the goal of most people to improve their standard of living? Why do you believe everyone is suppossed to be bend to you in order to accomplish that? You want to work for a company that is gonna provide a six figure income, FUCKING DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT to make them see it would be a good idea to hire you. Your constant whining about how you perceive everything to be so darn unfair, is it getting you anywhere?
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2008
  17. Zoomie1980
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    Zoomie1980 Senior Member

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    If it's anything like the company I work for it would be pretty lavish and nice

    Oh, boo, hoo....so your browsing get monitored and so do your e-mails. Why? Because they are PAYING you to WORK, not do what you want to. And they pay for your e-mail servers and network infrastructure it runs on. And they don't want perverts downloading child porn on company time. Gee, imagine that, the company expects to ..... WORK.... while you are work. Duh... And it's their money, they can do what and how they want to. If you don't like it ....QUIT...work somewhere else, or better yet, take YOUR OWN MONEY and START YOUR OWN COMPANY, ditz....

    What century and decade do you live in in your world? It damned sure as HELL isn't the first decade of the 21st century. Every company I have ever been to or work in treats their workers LAVISHLY. Posh break rooms, Starbucks coffee, microwaves, cushy office chairs, air conditioning, heat, gymnasiums with state-of-the-art exercise equipment, nice computers, nice cubes, all sorts of stuff.

    Most workers in this country are actually quite comfortable in their jobs, and like the companies they work for. BY FAR AND WIDE, the worst working conditions of anyone I have ever worked for? The DOD on a military base. Thought I was back in the 1930's where you seem to be stuck in your mind...

    Hint, pal, if you don't like your job, or you are working for a tight-wad, QUIT. Get another job at a nicer place that treats you well. If you want more money, ASK for it, DEMAND it, or increase your skills so you can. You only worth what they are willing to pay for what you offer. If it isn't what you want, BLAME YOURSELF because that's who's fault it is.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2008

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