If social security is SO great...

[Foxfyre]

The last stats I read on it, almost a third of social security recipients are much younger than Age 62. And of the elderly, a full one third depend 90 to 100% on social security as their only income and half depend on it as their primary source of income.

Nobody, not even the most cruel Republican, thinks that we can just stop social security without causing unspeakable suffering for millions of Americans that we have encouraged to be dependent on it.

But we can say STOP. Stop piling more and more entitlements onto the system. Stop encouraging young people to become dependent on it by putting together a way that we can start with tiny percentages to privatize the system and gradually wean people off of it. Once people see how much better off they are with private retirement accounts, it won't be hard to gradually move the system that direction.

The social security system as it current exists and as it is currently administrated is unsustainable. Congress will continue to raid it to avoid having to make hard choices in other areas. It will continue to earn no dividends or even simple interest. And the money is not ours. Congress could stop it tomorrow and we would have no more recourse re what we have paid in than we have in how they use our income taxes. We can't will it to our heirs. And if we aren't lucky enough to live to retirement age, we won't collect any of what we paid in.

If Congress had set out to devise the most inefficient, costly, and unsustainable system possible, they would have come up with something approximately the current Social Security system.

 

[Urbanguerrilla]

...why can't the people have a choice to opt-out? Obviously if it is so great everyone will choose to be a part of it, right?

Because if you loose your job and your house and you are destitute and starving on the street, 'society' and 'community' will not allow you to starve to death, but will assist you to get back on your feet.

 

[westwall]

...why can't the people have a choice to opt-out? Obviously if it is so great everyone will choose to be a part of it, right?

Because if you loose your job and your house and you are destitute and starving on the street, 'society' and 'community' will not allow you to starve to death, but will assist you to get back on your feet.

How many people starved before social security?

 

[Liberty]

If social security is so terrible, go ask your grandma to give it up.

She planned her whole life around it, because it was promised to her, jackass.

We all pay into it for our whole lives. Why should we give it up?

Why do Republicans always want to cut the good stuff? Cut the Pentagon spending. We can't afford to be the world police anymore. That's why we have a 13 trillion dollar national debt. Not because of social security. Jackass.

Hey maybe when I am 25 and working I want to invest my money my own way. Why is that not acceptable? SS doesn't even adjust for inflation...that's pretty messed up.

 

[editec]

...why can't the people have a choice to opt-out? Obviously if it is so great everyone will choose to be a part of it, right?

If having police, a judiciary and a military are all so great why can't people choose to opt out of paying for them?

Obviously if they are so great everyone would want to pay for them, right?

 

[Mr Natural]

Can I opt out retroactively?

I don't even want to opt out retroactively, I just want out.

Don't take any more from me and I won't ask for anything from you. Apparently I'm to stupid to be able to make this decision.

You want out?

Quit your job and go live off the land.

Problem solved.

 

[Liberty]

Can I opt out retroactively?

I don't even want to opt out retroactively, I just want out.

Don't take any more from me and I won't ask for anything from you. Apparently I'm to stupid to be able to make this decision.

You want out?

Quit your job and go live off the land.

Problem solved.

That is a pretty asinine response.

 

[Liberty]

...why can't the people have a choice to opt-out? Obviously if it is so great everyone will choose to be a part of it, right?

If having police, a judiciary and a military are all so great why can't people choose to opt out of paying for them?

Obviously if they are so great everyone would want to pay for them, right?

Enumerated powers, jackass.

 

[Sallow]

...why can't the people have a choice to opt-out? Obviously if it is so great everyone will choose to be a part of it, right?

That would probably un-constitutional. Same with an "opt-out" with the new health care bill.

 

[Sallow]

...why can't the people have a choice to opt-out? Obviously if it is so great everyone will choose to be a part of it, right?

Because if you loose your job and your house and you are destitute and starving on the street, 'society' and 'community' will not allow you to starve to death, but will assist you to get back on your feet.

How many people starved before social security?

Lots.

 

[Liberty]

Because if you loose your job and your house and you are destitute and starving on the street, 'society' and 'community' will not allow you to starve to death, but will assist you to get back on your feet.

How many people starved before social security?

Lots.

Wow! Well done! You have clearly won the argument with your irrefutable logic and critical thinking! You are truly a master of intellectual thought and second to none in the history of the planet earth. The whole planet is in debt to you for this one argument, for you are truly the man among men, the hero among us, and quite possibly the messiah himself! Today, you have inspired me to dedicate my life to the same school of thought as yourself, for it is clearly superior and undeniably correct all the time.

 

[AquaAthena]

If you are a minister, you can opt out of social security, but beware of the consequences...

Should Ministers Opt Out Of Social Security? - Taxes - daveramsey.com

 

[Foxfyre]

When social security went into effect it was never intended to support anybody, but was intended to provide a modest help for old folks living on pensions. Also people didn't live as long in the 40's and it was not expected for many to be on social security for decades.

The payroll tax in 1935 (37?) was 1% on the first $3000 of income. Now it is 15.3% on the first $106,800 of income and will continue to escalate unless significant reforms are instituted. Yes, I know you only have 7.65% tax taken out of your check, but your employer pays another 7.65% that could be used to increase your wages if it was not taxed away from him. If you are self employed, you pay the full 15.3% yourself. Mr. Foxfyre and I have done that for years.

As with all entitlements, the tax and payments were not a significant problem for awhile and then the costs exploded. That happens with ALL government entitlements. Whether social security or Medicaid or Medicare or government forced health insurance, the initial 'no problems' lull tricks us into thinking this isn't a problem.

Then down the road, WHAM, the bills come due and you have a graph that looks like this one for social security:

And this one:

 

[Old Rocks]

Can I opt out retroactively?

I don't even want to opt out retroactively, I just want out.

Don't take any more from me and I won't ask for anything from you. Apparently I'm to stupid to be able to make this decision.

Dumbest post so far. Yes, by the statement you just made, you are too stupid to make that decision. People get hurt badly enough in industry every day that for the rest of their life, they are on Social Security. They end up with disabilities that prevent them from being able to work for a living. And it could happen to you just as easily as anyone else. Should it happen to you, you think that you would just die rather than accept the social safety net?

 

[Old Rocks]

How many people starved before social security?

Lots.

Wow! Well done! You have clearly won the argument with your irrefutable logic and critical thinking! You are truly a master of intellectual thought and second to none in the history of the planet earth. The whole planet is in debt to you for this one argument, for you are truly the man among men, the hero among us, and quite possibly the messiah himself! Today, you have inspired me to dedicate my life to the same school of thought as yourself, for it is clearly superior and undeniably correct all the time.

And after all you your stupid verbage, his answer still stands as correct.

 

[asterism]

Can I opt out retroactively?

I don't even want to opt out retroactively, I just want out.

Don't take any more from me and I won't ask for anything from you. Apparently I'm to stupid to be able to make this decision.

Dumbest post so far. Yes, by the statement you just made, you are too stupid to make that decision. People get hurt badly enough in industry every day that for the rest of their life, they are on Social Security. They end up with disabilities that prevent them from being able to work for a living. And it could happen to you just as easily as anyone else. Should it happen to you, you think that you would just die rather than accept the social safety net?

No, I'd rather have the money to make my own contingency plans like disability insurance and owning investments that don't require my direct labor. My wife and I have contributed almost $300,000 to Social Security. Had we invested that money in conservative high rated municipal bonds that nest egg would be worth about $400,000 right now, and we're not even half way through our careers. This is why I'd rather make a deal with the government now because we've still had to invest our own after tax money as well as buy insurance policies to handle the risk of disability or death. They can keep the $300K since we're already covered. That way we can invest the proceeds from next 20-30 years for ourselves and the government has no liability and can use the $300,000 to take care of someone else.

How is this not a good deal all around?

 

[Foxfyre]

Can I opt out retroactively?

I don't even want to opt out retroactively, I just want out.

Don't take any more from me and I won't ask for anything from you. Apparently I'm to stupid to be able to make this decision.

Dumbest post so far. Yes, by the statement you just made, you are too stupid to make that decision. People get hurt badly enough in industry every day that for the rest of their life, they are on Social Security. They end up with disabilities that prevent them from being able to work for a living. And it could happen to you just as easily as anyone else. Should it happen to you, you think that you would just die rather than accept the social safety net?

Then again disability insurance is pretty darn cheap--hubby and I both carry such policies--and a young person can afford and would probably carry a larger policy than we do. The point is the social security system, as I illustrated earlier, cannot be sustained as it is. It will eventually convert us from a capitalistic nation to a socialistic one, something the Founders very much opposed, or it will eventually go bankrupt. There is no Constitutional mandate for social security and Congress could vote to defund it tomorrow if they chose to do that and the people would have zero ability to do anything about it other than riot.

I would like to prevent all those unpleasant scenarios.

And I prefer to give people the opportunity to choose to decide for themselves what is best for them, however that goes. I believe people are capable of spending their own money more efficiently and effectively than the Federal government is likely to spend it on their behalf, especially when the people get to spend most of their money rather than the small percentage left over after all the bureaucracies takes their cuts.

Freedom is the ablity to be either smart or stupid. The government assuming that responsibility for them is not freedom.

 

[westwall]

Because if you loose your job and your house and you are destitute and starving on the street, 'society' and 'community' will not allow you to starve to death, but will assist you to get back on your feet.

How many people starved before social security?

Lots.

Really? Care to support your argument with some facts. I can show plenty of sources that show people did not in fact starve. The churches stepped up and took care of those in need.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Guys and gals, we are part of the social compact, thus we make policy. If privatizers can get the numbers to do such a dumb thing, so be it. But realize the anger of the health insurance reform would be a match flame to the forest fire of citizen outrage at privatizing social security.

 

[rdean]

Same reason you can't opt out of Obamacare.

Yea you can.