If Russia is evil for interfering with America's election...

[hadit]

1. Name a foreign election in which we have interfered

2. Provide the official rationale for doing so

3. Provide personal opinion on why we did it, insofar as that opinion diverges from official rationale

4. Judge whether the intervention had an outcome either favorable or unfavorable to the interests of the United States

Who says we wait for an election to interfere with another nation's leadership? Ask Kaddhafi how that works.

Find me one Libyan neighbor-country or one sane person in the United States who thinks we were better off leaving Qhadaffi in power.

That's irrelevant. The fact is, we violently change the leadership of other countries if we want to.

So are you defending Russia's (evidently successful) attempt to change leadership in America? We should overlook the whole thing and drop sanctions and open backdoor communications on their servers as proposed by Kushner?

Nope, merely pointing out that nations always try to influence the leadership of other nations, trying to get one more favorable to themselves. America is the big dog on the block, so I fully expect EVERY nation to do whatever they can to influence our elections. Thus, it doesn't surprise me that Russians bought FB ads. It wouldn't surprise me either if we found out China routed money to Hillary through back door channels or hacked her unsecured private email server and were ready to use what they found for blackmail. Sure, it would be great if all the nations of the world would play nice, link arms and sing Kumbaya, but they don't. All we can do is secure our stuff the best we can and stop relying on FB ads for political information.

 

[candycorn]

...why isn't America evil for all the elections we've interfered with, all over the world.

No, the Americans who conspired with Russia are the evil ones. Apparently the Russian government had repeated contact with 14 members of the Trump campaign during the election and transition.

Russians interacted with at least 14 Trump associates during the campaign and transition

Keep ignoring Russian interaction with Hillary and camp as well. Further, Contact = Collusion???

Are you alleging Hillary colluded with Russia?

 

[bullwinkle]

1. Name a foreign election in which we have interfered

2. Provide the official rationale for doing so

3. Provide personal opinion on why we did it, insofar as that opinion diverges from official rationale

4. Judge whether the intervention had an outcome either favorable or unfavorable to the interests of the United States

Who says we wait for an election to interfere with another nation's leadership? Ask Kaddhafi how that works.

Find me one Libyan neighbor-country or one sane person in the United States who thinks we were better off leaving Qhadaffi in power.

That's irrelevant. The fact is, we violently change the leadership of other countries if we want to.

So are you defending Russia's (evidently successful) attempt to change leadership in America? We should overlook the whole thing and drop sanctions and open backdoor communications on their servers as proposed by Kushner?

Nope, merely pointing out that nations always try to influence the leadership of other nations, trying to get one more favorable to themselves. America is the big dog on the block, so I fully expect EVERY nation to do whatever they can to influence our elections. Thus, it doesn't surprise me that Russians bought FB ads. It wouldn't surprise me either if we found out China routed money to Hillary through back door channels or hacked her unsecured private email server and were ready to use what they found for blackmail. Sure, it would be great if all the nations of the world would play nice, link arms and sing Kumbaya, but they don't. All we can do is secure our stuff the best we can and stop relying on FB ads for political information.

"It wouldn't surprise me either if we found out China routed money to Hillary through back door channels or hacked her unsecured private email server and were ready to use what they found for blackmail."
Hadit, is the fact it wouldn't surprise you validation for passing it on?
The logic of your post is...logical. No nation IMHO is innocent of meddling in the affairs of other nations in their own favor. However it is not an excuse to look the other way or try to correct the effort. Because it is also logical that no nation intrudes except for an advantage for themselves, so we have to ask ourselves 'what's in it for them?'. And of them all, Russia is the most threatening, again IMHO. It almost seems like at our present rate, we are scheduled to become USSR West. Subtly, of course, little by little, drop by drop. Institutions degraded (FBI/CIA/DOJ etc), traditions stricken (Presidential tax returns/personal business in trust), journalism morphed into 'enemies', and whopping lies about accomplishment like jobs returning, or worse like jobs not leaving!

 

[hadit]

Who says we wait for an election to interfere with another nation's leadership? Ask Kaddhafi how that works.

Find me one Libyan neighbor-country or one sane person in the United States who thinks we were better off leaving Qhadaffi in power.

That's irrelevant. The fact is, we violently change the leadership of other countries if we want to.

So are you defending Russia's (evidently successful) attempt to change leadership in America? We should overlook the whole thing and drop sanctions and open backdoor communications on their servers as proposed by Kushner?

Nope, merely pointing out that nations always try to influence the leadership of other nations, trying to get one more favorable to themselves. America is the big dog on the block, so I fully expect EVERY nation to do whatever they can to influence our elections. Thus, it doesn't surprise me that Russians bought FB ads. It wouldn't surprise me either if we found out China routed money to Hillary through back door channels or hacked her unsecured private email server and were ready to use what they found for blackmail. Sure, it would be great if all the nations of the world would play nice, link arms and sing Kumbaya, but they don't. All we can do is secure our stuff the best we can and stop relying on FB ads for political information.

"It wouldn't surprise me either if we found out China routed money to Hillary through back door channels or hacked her unsecured private email server and were ready to use what they found for blackmail."
Hadit, is the fact it wouldn't surprise you validation for passing it on?
The logic of your post is...logical. No nation IMHO is innocent of meddling in the affairs of other nations in their own favor. However it is not an excuse to look the other way or try to correct the effort. Because it is also logical that no nation intrudes except for an advantage for themselves, so we have to ask ourselves 'what's in it for them?'. And of them all, Russia is the most threatening, again IMHO. It almost seems like at our present rate, we are scheduled to become USSR West. Subtly, of course, little by little, drop by drop. Institutions degraded (FBI/CIA/DOJ etc), traditions stricken (Presidential tax returns/personal business in trust), journalism morphed into 'enemies', and whopping lies about accomplishment like jobs returning, or worse like jobs not leaving!

All we can do is secure our stuff the best we can and stop relying on FB ads for political information. We need to realize this isn't unprecedented or unusual. When we rush to the fainting couch if a candidate's family member meets someone but go "meh" if another candidate pays foreign operatives for "opposition research", we're not doing ourselves any favors.