If republicans win in november .

[Screaming Eagle]

The problem is that people really think this kind of crap. Republicans spent more on all that stuff, increased the deficit and the debt, and barely lowered income taxes.

 

[Immanuel]

Americans do not want to be dependant on government. But when you live in a country where the economic system is so grossly unfair, where people work there butts off their entire life and get nothing in return except mere subsistence, the only alternative is to tax the wealthy (who are a bunch of thieves anyway), and return it to the working people thru government programs.

It would be a lot better if working people were paid fairly and there was no need for government assistance.

Tell me how come Americans produce 24% of the world wealth annually, but so many Americans need governement assistance? Why is the average standard of living in the U.S. down around the lowest in the industrialized world?

The answer is:

The American people are getting ripped off by the wealthy each and every minute of every day.

Forgive me for this because I don't know you, but I think that is a sad way to look at life. I'm definitely not wealthy and right now I am unemployed. But, I do not blame the wealthy for the life I live now. I'm happy and surviving. I pay my taxes and therefore since I am not employed right now, I'm taking my unemployment while seeking employment.

I don't feel ripped off by the wealthy. In fact, I feel like if it weren't for the wealthy (more like semi-wealthy) who have employed me all these years, I would be a hell of a lot worse off today than I am now.

Why do you think the economic system is so unfair?

I don't know if you feel that taxing the rich into poverty is the right thing to do, but I get so tired of people saying that the rich should be taxed into poverty so that the poor can be rich. That just doesn't make sense to me. I believe we as a country have a duty to help out the needy, but I don't blame the rich for the fact that there are needy on this earth.

Immie

Immie -

Instead of just accepting everything as it is and say 'hey that's life', you should try to understand the world and why things are the way they are.

Wealth does not grow on trees, it does not drop out of the sky, it is created thru hard work. Historically and currently, the people who are wealthy have not, by a long shot, done the work that created their wealth. Instead they have taken advantage of the economically disadvantaged and accumulated the wealth created by workers. This is how they profit.

Most employees create more wealth then they are paid - often times a great deal more. This is why their employers hire them.

The accumulation of wealth is the acculumation of currency and of ownership. Wealth is not accumulated thru work. Employees are denied the currency that is justly owed to them simply becuase they are economically disadvantaged - the employers can get away with it.

For the past 30 years, the unfairness in the distribution of wealth has gone back to being totally horrendous - with employees making an ever decreasing percentage of the wealth that they create. Those that work the hardest and create the most wealth are paid the least.

The only thing that counterbalances this is that the wealthy are careful to maintain social stability by, comparatively, overpaying a certain percentage of employees for their loyalty.

This forms a sycophantic class that fanatically supports the status quo. Social engineering by the wealthy is more the determinant of salary level than productivity.

Richard,

I almost want to ask you how old you are, but feel that would be so rude. The reason I say that is not because I think you are immature because you do not seem to be, but rather, because you seem to have the idea that everything should be fair. It isn't and in my humble opinion it should not be.

You have every right to go out in the world and risk your "fortune" or even the lack there of and become as wealthy as Bill Gates. I am not an entrepreneur. I am not willing to go out there and risk everything I have. I am not a Type A person. I'm one of those silent Type B kind of guys. I'm not even willing to give it a try.

Bill Gates is that kind of guy and yes, he got lucky because he was in the right place at the right time. I am sure that he paid his dues to get what he has... okay, well, maybe he got some of what I deserve, but hey, that is just life.

Truly the "rich" do earn money on our sweat and tears, but they also compensate us for that sweat and those tears. If your employer does not compensate you fairly then he is not that great of a guy, but part of the blame lies in your court for accepting what he is willing to give you and not seeking an employer that will compensate justly.

I don't accept things as "hey that is life" as you say. I simply feel that I have earned what I have and if I want more then I have to go out and earn some more. I don't fault my employers. They do what they can do to earn a return on investment for the wealth they risk. Some happen to be more successful than others.

You are right that some don't deserve (or didn't earn) what they have. Some inherited their wealth and some simply just got lucky and won it in a lottery. But the truly wealthy have earned what they have. I believe that Warren Buffett is one of those. He was good at what he does and he made the right choices and now he literally owns everything. Okay, that is hyperbolic, but you get my drift.

I'd have to say it is all in how you look at things. Are you happy with who you are? If so then all the wealth in the world doesn't come close to the value of your own life. That is how I look at things. And if you are not happy, then you have to power (at least you do if you live and work in the states) to go out there and put in 70-80 hour work weeks and make yourself happy. Me personally... I'm simply not interested. Life is too good to be wasted at work.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we are responsible for ourselves. We are to blame when things don't go like we planned and we don't end up filthy rich. Hell, if things had gone the way I had planned, you would know my real name, because I would have been the Quarterback of the San Francisco 49ers instead of Joe Montana and I would have a couple of Super Bowl Rings on my fingers right now... damn!!! if only

I don't think, I have ever had the pleasure of having a discussion with you. I didn't check to see how new you are to the site. So, let this post end with a welcome to the site and a heartfelt hope that we can continue to have these kinds of discussions.

Edit: Dang! You've been here since Aug 2008 and we haven't gone at it before? What the heck is wrong with us?

Immie

 

[momonkey]

If you could really promise that would happen the GOP would win every single election in November.

I think there would be very few Seniors voting to abolish Social Security and Medicare. There would be very few poor people voting to abolish WIC and SCHIP. And there would be even less interested in reducing taxes for those making over $250,000 (2% of the households).

Americans have clearly demonstrated, they want government goodies, but they don't want to pay for them. Sad but true.

Americans do not want to be dependant on government. But when you live in a country where the economic system is so grossly unfair, where people work there butts off their entire life and get nothing in return except mere subsistence, the only alternative is to tax the wealthy (who are a bunch of thieves anyway), and return it to the working people thru government programs.

It would be a lot better if working people were paid fairly and there was no need for government assistance.

Tell me how come Americans produce 24% of the world wealth annually, but so many Americans need governement assistance? Why is the average standard of living in the U.S. down around the lowest in the industrialized world?

The answer is:

The American people are getting ripped off by the wealthy each and every minute of every day.

The reason we produce 24% of the world's wealth is because we allow those who produce wealth to keep more of it than most other developed nations.

Pay people to do nothing and that is exactly what they will do.

 

[rdean]

Forgive me for this because I don't know you, but I think that is a sad way to look at life. I'm definitely not wealthy and right now I am unemployed. But, I do not blame the wealthy for the life I live now. I'm happy and surviving. I pay my taxes and therefore since I am not employed right now, I'm taking my unemployment while seeking employment.

I don't feel ripped off by the wealthy. In fact, I feel like if it weren't for the wealthy (more like semi-wealthy) who have employed me all these years, I would be a hell of a lot worse off today than I am now.

Why do you think the economic system is so unfair?

I don't know if you feel that taxing the rich into poverty is the right thing to do, but I get so tired of people saying that the rich should be taxed into poverty so that the poor can be rich. That just doesn't make sense to me. I believe we as a country have a duty to help out the needy, but I don't blame the rich for the fact that there are needy on this earth.

Immie

Immie -

Instead of just accepting everything as it is and say 'hey that's life', you should try to understand the world and why things are the way they are.

Wealth does not grow on trees, it does not drop out of the sky, it is created thru hard work. Historically and currently, the people who are wealthy have not, by a long shot, done the work that created their wealth. Instead they have taken advantage of the economically disadvantaged and accumulated the wealth created by workers. This is how they profit.

Most employees create more wealth then they are paid - often times a great deal more. This is why their employers hire them.

The accumulation of wealth is the acculumation of currency and of ownership. Wealth is not accumulated thru work. Employees are denied the currency that is justly owed to them simply becuase they are economically disadvantaged - the employers can get away with it.

For the past 30 years, the unfairness in the distribution of wealth has gone back to being totally horrendous - with employees making an ever decreasing percentage of the wealth that they create. Those that work the hardest and create the most wealth are paid the least.

The only thing that counterbalances this is that the wealthy are careful to maintain social stability by, comparatively, overpaying a certain percentage of employees for their loyalty.

This forms a sycophantic class that fanatically supports the status quo. Social engineering by the wealthy is more the determinant of salary level than productivity.

Richard,

I almost want to ask you how old you are, but feel that would be so rude. The reason I say that is not because I think you are immature because you do not seem to be, but rather, because you seem to have the idea that everything should be fair. It isn't and in my humble opinion it should not be.

You have every right to go out in the world and risk your "fortune" or even the lack there of and become as wealthy as Bill Gates. I am not an entrepreneur. I am not willing to go out there and risk everything I have. I am not a Type A person. I'm one of those silent Type B kind of guys. I'm not even willing to give it a try.

Bill Gates is that kind of guy and yes, he got lucky because he was in the right place at the right time. I am sure that he paid his dues to get what he has... okay, well, maybe he got some of what I deserve, but hey, that is just life.

Truly the "rich" do earn money on our sweat and tears, but they also compensate us for that sweat and those tears. If your employer does not compensate you fairly then he is not that great of a guy, but part of the blame lies in your court for accepting what he is willing to give you and not seeking an employer that will compensate justly.

I don't accept things as "hey that is life" as you say. I simply feel that I have earned what I have and if I want more then I have to go out and earn some more. I don't fault my employers. They do what they can do to earn a return on investment for the wealth they risk. Some happen to be more successful than others.

You are right that some don't deserve (or didn't earn) what they have. Some inherited their wealth and some simply just got lucky and won it in a lottery. But the truly wealthy have earned what they have. I believe that Warren Buffett is one of those. He was good at what he does and he made the right choices and now he literally owns everything. Okay, that is hyperbolic, but you get my drift.

I'd have to say it is all in how you look at things. Are you happy with who you are? If so then all the wealth in the world doesn't come close to the value of your own life. That is how I look at things. And if you are not happy, then you have to power (at least you do if you live and work in the states) to go out there and put in 70-80 hour work weeks and make yourself happy. Me personally... I'm simply not interested. Life is too good to be wasted at work.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we are responsible for ourselves. We are to blame when things don't go like we planned and we don't end up filthy rich. Hell, if things had gone the way I had planned, you would know my real name, because I would have been the Quarterback of the San Francisco 49ers instead of Joe Montana and I would have a couple of Super Bowl Rings on my fingers right now... damn!!! if only

I don't think, I have ever had the pleasure of having a discussion with you. I didn't check to see how new you are to the site. So, let this post end with a welcome to the site and a heartfelt hope that we can continue to have these kinds of discussions.

Edit: Dang! You've been here since Aug 2008 and we haven't gone at it before? What the heck is wrong with us?

Immie

They also move jobs overseas to get the cheapest labor possible.

 

[Immanuel]

Immie -

Instead of just accepting everything as it is and say 'hey that's life', you should try to understand the world and why things are the way they are.

Wealth does not grow on trees, it does not drop out of the sky, it is created thru hard work. Historically and currently, the people who are wealthy have not, by a long shot, done the work that created their wealth. Instead they have taken advantage of the economically disadvantaged and accumulated the wealth created by workers. This is how they profit.

Most employees create more wealth then they are paid - often times a great deal more. This is why their employers hire them.

The accumulation of wealth is the acculumation of currency and of ownership. Wealth is not accumulated thru work. Employees are denied the currency that is justly owed to them simply becuase they are economically disadvantaged - the employers can get away with it.

For the past 30 years, the unfairness in the distribution of wealth has gone back to being totally horrendous - with employees making an ever decreasing percentage of the wealth that they create. Those that work the hardest and create the most wealth are paid the least.

The only thing that counterbalances this is that the wealthy are careful to maintain social stability by, comparatively, overpaying a certain percentage of employees for their loyalty.

This forms a sycophantic class that fanatically supports the status quo. Social engineering by the wealthy is more the determinant of salary level than productivity.

Richard,

I almost want to ask you how old you are, but feel that would be so rude. The reason I say that is not because I think you are immature because you do not seem to be, but rather, because you seem to have the idea that everything should be fair. It isn't and in my humble opinion it should not be.

You have every right to go out in the world and risk your "fortune" or even the lack there of and become as wealthy as Bill Gates. I am not an entrepreneur. I am not willing to go out there and risk everything I have. I am not a Type A person. I'm one of those silent Type B kind of guys. I'm not even willing to give it a try.

Bill Gates is that kind of guy and yes, he got lucky because he was in the right place at the right time. I am sure that he paid his dues to get what he has... okay, well, maybe he got some of what I deserve, but hey, that is just life.

Truly the "rich" do earn money on our sweat and tears, but they also compensate us for that sweat and those tears. If your employer does not compensate you fairly then he is not that great of a guy, but part of the blame lies in your court for accepting what he is willing to give you and not seeking an employer that will compensate justly.

I don't accept things as "hey that is life" as you say. I simply feel that I have earned what I have and if I want more then I have to go out and earn some more. I don't fault my employers. They do what they can do to earn a return on investment for the wealth they risk. Some happen to be more successful than others.

You are right that some don't deserve (or didn't earn) what they have. Some inherited their wealth and some simply just got lucky and won it in a lottery. But the truly wealthy have earned what they have. I believe that Warren Buffett is one of those. He was good at what he does and he made the right choices and now he literally owns everything. Okay, that is hyperbolic, but you get my drift.

I'd have to say it is all in how you look at things. Are you happy with who you are? If so then all the wealth in the world doesn't come close to the value of your own life. That is how I look at things. And if you are not happy, then you have to power (at least you do if you live and work in the states) to go out there and put in 70-80 hour work weeks and make yourself happy. Me personally... I'm simply not interested. Life is too good to be wasted at work.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we are responsible for ourselves. We are to blame when things don't go like we planned and we don't end up filthy rich. Hell, if things had gone the way I had planned, you would know my real name, because I would have been the Quarterback of the San Francisco 49ers instead of Joe Montana and I would have a couple of Super Bowl Rings on my fingers right now... damn!!! if only

I don't think, I have ever had the pleasure of having a discussion with you. I didn't check to see how new you are to the site. So, let this post end with a welcome to the site and a heartfelt hope that we can continue to have these kinds of discussions.

Edit: Dang! You've been here since Aug 2008 and we haven't gone at it before? What the heck is wrong with us?

Immie

They also move jobs overseas to get the cheapest labor possible.

I can agree with your assessment in that case.

But still, I think that they have the right to make the best return on their investment that they can. I don't begrudge them that right.

I believe in the free market system. I don't know whether or not you do. I have to say that if we as employees have out priced our competition in that realm, then we have to make ourselves more affordable.

If part of the reason that we are overpriced is that our government has taxed the corporations off shore, then we have to change that as well.

By the way, those kinds of decisions are not made by one man. The CEO doesn't simply decide that he wants to move off shore simply because his company doesn't get taxed as much (or at all) by the Bahamas or another country. The Board weighs the costs and benefits of remaining in the states against those of moving out of the states. Sometimes, the benefits of going offshore outweigh the benefits of staying in the states and companies make the decision to leave. I don't like that decision anymore than your everyday lefty, but it is what happens.

I feel that it is time that we quit blaming the rich guy and start living our own lives. I'm not saying that we can't have a progressive tax system, but I don't particularly care for the rhetoric that the wealthy man is evil because... well, because he is wealthy. He has to make decisions for himself just as you and I have to do.

Immie

 

[Flopper]

If her taxable income is $60,000 then her total tax would be $11,187.50 and her effective rate would be somewhere below 18% depending on what her adjusted gross income. Which would be somewhere above the $60,000 + 3,650 + 5,700.

Immie

That sounds about right, however if you have 10 million dollars, you could call your broker Monday morning and invest the money in investment grade tax free municipal bonds that would pay you a half million a year in tax free interest. You would not have to pay a single cent of federal income, tax not even the alternate minimum tax. If you were careful to select municipal bonds issued within your state, you wouldn't have to pay any state income tax either! This is probably the easiest way for the wealthy to avoid paying taxes and it's perfectly legal.