CDZ If registering guns is Okay, then why not make everyone submit DNA to the police?

[2aguy]

The anti gunners here on U.Smessage and in other places keep calling for gun registration....they falsely believe it will help solve crimes and keep guns out of the hands of crimnals.

If that is so important, and so much other crime actually happens over and above gun murder...why not force every American citizen to submit a DNA sample at Birth? If solving crimes is so important that we need to register all guns, making all gun owners guilty until proven innocent, where is the argument against DNA samples on all of us? Considering how many crimes now involve DNA at the scene of the crime...why not?

 

[OldLady]

Go ahead.

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

To answer the question in the title, I'll ask another question to ponder along with yours.

How many people can be put to death with a load from a gun and how many can be put to death with a load of DNA from a rim of a coffee cup?

You're putting forth just another absurd false equivalency! And don't even claim I'm for another such absurd claim because I'm not in favor of blanket gun confiscation! Scalia got it right in Heller! I suggest you try memorizing the first two paragraphs of Section III of the decision which is rock solid precedent and sound law today!

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Go ahead.

While we're at it, how about let them install CCTV in your house so they can monitor "your protection and security"?

 

[2aguy]

To answer the question in the title, I'll ask another question to ponder along with yours.

How many people can be put to death with a load from a gun and how many can be put to death with a load of DNA from a rim of a coffee cup?

You're putting forth just another absurd false equivalency! And don't even claim I'm for another such absurd claim because I'm not in favor of blanket gun confiscation! Scalia got it right in Heller! I suggest you try memorizing the first two paragraphs of Section III of the decision which is rock solid precedent and sound law today!

It is not a false equivalency...... wether or not guns can kill you isn't the issue.... the anti gunners claim that registering guns will help reduce gun crime.... taking DNA samples from all citizens would also reduce crime.

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

To answer the question in the title, I'll ask another question to ponder along with yours.

How many people can be put to death with a load from a gun and how many can be put to death with a load of DNA from a rim of a coffee cup?

You're putting forth just another absurd false equivalency! And don't even claim I'm for another such absurd claim because I'm not in favor of blanket gun confiscation! Scalia got it right in Heller! I suggest you try memorizing the first two paragraphs of Section III of the decision which is rock solid precedent and sound law today!

It is not a false equivalency...... wether or not guns can kill you isn't the issue.... the anti gunners claim that registering guns will help reduce gun crime.... taking DNA samples from all citizens would also reduce crime.

It is not a false equivalency...... wether or not guns can kill you isn't the issue...

It's not what many folks across the Nation are upset about with 154 mass shooting in the US between Jan 1 & June 28 of this year already? If resisting gun control efforts isn't your main concern, then why did you even mention that very thing when you initiated this discussion* & with the nick you wear...2A Guy??
* ~~ There have been 154 mass shootings in the US so far in 2018 — here's the full list ~~

Now you've moved on to another false equivalency;

...the anti gunners claim that registering guns will help reduce gun crime.... taking DNA samples from all citizens would also reduce crime.

Registering firearms could well reduce gun crime to some extent as anyone with an open mind can easily surmise. However, taking DNA samples from everyone before hand could never prevent a crime simply because any relevant DNA of the perp left at a crime would only be useful AFTER a crime was committed, which presents another dichotomous absurdity to this second claim of yours.

As a matter of fact, registration of firearms is Constitutional; again see Heller first two paragraphs of Section III again. On the other hand, forcing an individual to give a sample of their DNA against their will without due process is absolutely unconstitutional.

 

[P F Tinmore]

To answer the question in the title, I'll ask another question to ponder along with yours.

How many people can be put to death with a load from a gun and how many can be put to death with a load of DNA from a rim of a coffee cup?

You're putting forth just another absurd false equivalency! And don't even claim I'm for another such absurd claim because I'm not in favor of blanket gun confiscation! Scalia got it right in Heller! I suggest you try memorizing the first two paragraphs of Section III of the decision which is rock solid precedent and sound law today!

It is not a false equivalency...... wether or not guns can kill you isn't the issue.... the anti gunners claim that registering guns will help reduce gun crime.... taking DNA samples from all citizens would also reduce crime.

It says so in Police State 101.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Registering firearms could well reduce gun crime to some extent as anyone with an open mind can easily surmise.

How so ?

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

Registering firearms could well reduce gun crime to some extent as anyone with an open mind can easily surmise.

How so ?

How would allowing habitual felons, the mentally ill and criminal gangs uninhibited access to firearms reduce the incidence of crime for one example?

 

[OODA_Loop]

Registering firearms could well reduce gun crime to some extent as anyone with an open mind can easily surmise.

How so ?

How would allowing habitual felons, the mentally ill and criminal gangs uninhibited access to firearms reduce the incidence of crime for one example?

So registering my gun does what for that ?

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

Registering firearms could well reduce gun crime to some extent as anyone with an open mind can easily surmise.

How so ?

How would allowing habitual felons, the mentally ill and criminal gangs uninhibited access to firearms reduce the incidence of crime for one example?

So registering my gun does what for that ?

I'm not going to play 20 questions with you or play any of your other silly games with you in this forum!

 

[OODA_Loop]

Questions are tough.

 

[2aguy]

To answer the question in the title, I'll ask another question to ponder along with yours.

How many people can be put to death with a load from a gun and how many can be put to death with a load of DNA from a rim of a coffee cup?

You're putting forth just another absurd false equivalency! And don't even claim I'm for another such absurd claim because I'm not in favor of blanket gun confiscation! Scalia got it right in Heller! I suggest you try memorizing the first two paragraphs of Section III of the decision which is rock solid precedent and sound law today!

It is not a false equivalency...... wether or not guns can kill you isn't the issue.... the anti gunners claim that registering guns will help reduce gun crime.... taking DNA samples from all citizens would also reduce crime.

It is not a false equivalency...... wether or not guns can kill you isn't the issue...

It's not what many folks across the Nation are upset about with 154 mass shooting in the US between Jan 1 & June 28 of this year already? If resisting gun control efforts isn't your main concern, then why did you even mention that very thing when you initiated this discussion* & with the nick you wear...2A Guy??
* ~~ There have been 154 mass shootings in the US so far in 2018 — here's the full list ~~

Now you've moved on to another false equivalency;

...the anti gunners claim that registering guns will help reduce gun crime.... taking DNA samples from all citizens would also reduce crime.

Registering firearms could well reduce gun crime to some extent as anyone with an open mind can easily surmise. However, taking DNA samples from everyone before hand could never prevent a crime simply because any relevant DNA of the perp left at a crime would only be useful AFTER a crime was committed, which presents another dichotomous absurdity to this second claim of yours.

As a matter of fact, registration of firearms is Constitutional; again see Heller first two paragraphs of Section III again. On the other hand, forcing an individual to give a sample of their DNA against their will without due process is absolutely unconstitutional.

First, there were not 154 mass shootings, that is a lie..... Mother Jones, Left wing, anti gun news source has an exact list that goes by the actual definition of what a mass public shooting is.....

Here....the exact number each year going back to 1982.....the number you have is from an anti gun extremist site that lists every shooting, mainly gang related shootings that involve crime, shootings at parties over dice games and girlfriends and injuries not related to the actual shootings...
US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation


2017: 11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1

 

[2aguy]

To answer the question in the title, I'll ask another question to ponder along with yours.

How many people can be put to death with a load from a gun and how many can be put to death with a load of DNA from a rim of a coffee cup?

You're putting forth just another absurd false equivalency! And don't even claim I'm for another such absurd claim because I'm not in favor of blanket gun confiscation! Scalia got it right in Heller! I suggest you try memorizing the first two paragraphs of Section III of the decision which is rock solid precedent and sound law today!

It is not a false equivalency...... wether or not guns can kill you isn't the issue.... the anti gunners claim that registering guns will help reduce gun crime.... taking DNA samples from all citizens would also reduce crime.

It is not a false equivalency...... wether or not guns can kill you isn't the issue...

It's not what many folks across the Nation are upset about with 154 mass shooting in the US between Jan 1 & June 28 of this year already? If resisting gun control efforts isn't your main concern, then why did you even mention that very thing when you initiated this discussion* & with the nick you wear...2A Guy??
* ~~ There have been 154 mass shootings in the US so far in 2018 — here's the full list ~~

Now you've moved on to another false equivalency;

...the anti gunners claim that registering guns will help reduce gun crime.... taking DNA samples from all citizens would also reduce crime.

Registering firearms could well reduce gun crime to some extent as anyone with an open mind can easily surmise. However, taking DNA samples from everyone before hand could never prevent a crime simply because any relevant DNA of the perp left at a crime would only be useful AFTER a crime was committed, which presents another dichotomous absurdity to this second claim of yours.

As a matter of fact, registration of firearms is Constitutional; again see Heller first two paragraphs of Section III again. On the other hand, forcing an individual to give a sample of their DNA against their will without due process is absolutely unconstitutional.

Gun registration does not solve gun crimes, it does not prevent gun crimes..... Your open mind set aside, the actual facts show that gun registration does not apply to actual criminals....the Haynes v United States Supreme Court decision states that criminals do not have to register their illegal guns. Do you see where your surmising starts off on shaky ground? Then, Canada tried to register 15 million long guns.....they had to stop because it cost too much, cost too much manpower and didn't help to solve crime....

So what you believe is often contradicted by truth and facts...as well as reality.

We have 600 million guns in private hands......they tried to register 15 million long guns....they failed.

Canada Tried Registering Long Guns -- And Gave Up

15 million guns.....1 billion dollars...and it didn't work....



The law passed and starting in 1998 Canadians were required to have a license to own firearms and register their weapons with the government. According to Canadian researcher (and gun enthusiast) Gary Mauser, the Canada Firearms Center quickly rose to 600 employees and the cost of the effort climbed past $600 million. In 2002 Canada’s auditor general released a report saying initial cost estimates of $2 million (Canadian) had increased to $1 billion as the government tried to register the estimated 15 million guns owned by Canada’s 34 million residents.

The registry was plagued with complications like duplicate serial numbers and millions of incomplete records, Mauser reports. One person managed to register a soldering gun, demonstrating the lack of precise standards. And overshadowing the effort was the suspicion of misplaced effort: Pistols were used in 66% of gun homicides in 2011, yet they represent about 6% of the guns in Canada. Legal long guns were used in 11% of killings that year, according to Statistics Canada, while illegal weapons like sawed-off shotguns and machine guns, which by definition cannot be registered, were used in another 12%.

So the government was spending the bulk of its money — about $17 million of the Firearms Center’s $82 million annual budget — trying to register long guns when the statistics showed they weren’t the problem.

There was also the question of how registering guns was supposed to reduce crime and suicide in the first place. From 1997 to 2005, only 13% of the guns used in homicides were registered. Police studies in Canada estimated that 2-16% of guns used in crimes were stolen from legal owners and thus potentially in the registry. The bulk of the guns, Canadian officials concluded, were unregistered weapons imported illegally from the U.S. by criminal gangs.

 

[2aguy]

To answer the question in the title, I'll ask another question to ponder along with yours.

How many people can be put to death with a load from a gun and how many can be put to death with a load of DNA from a rim of a coffee cup?

You're putting forth just another absurd false equivalency! And don't even claim I'm for another such absurd claim because I'm not in favor of blanket gun confiscation! Scalia got it right in Heller! I suggest you try memorizing the first two paragraphs of Section III of the decision which is rock solid precedent and sound law today!

It is not a false equivalency...... wether or not guns can kill you isn't the issue.... the anti gunners claim that registering guns will help reduce gun crime.... taking DNA samples from all citizens would also reduce crime.

It is not a false equivalency...... wether or not guns can kill you isn't the issue...

It's not what many folks across the Nation are upset about with 154 mass shooting in the US between Jan 1 & June 28 of this year already? If resisting gun control efforts isn't your main concern, then why did you even mention that very thing when you initiated this discussion* & with the nick you wear...2A Guy??
* ~~ There have been 154 mass shootings in the US so far in 2018 — here's the full list ~~

Now you've moved on to another false equivalency;

...the anti gunners claim that registering guns will help reduce gun crime.... taking DNA samples from all citizens would also reduce crime.

Registering firearms could well reduce gun crime to some extent as anyone with an open mind can easily surmise. However, taking DNA samples from everyone before hand could never prevent a crime simply because any relevant DNA of the perp left at a crime would only be useful AFTER a crime was committed, which presents another dichotomous absurdity to this second claim of yours.

As a matter of fact, registration of firearms is Constitutional; again see Heller first two paragraphs of Section III again. On the other hand, forcing an individual to give a sample of their DNA against their will without due process is absolutely unconstitutional.

Registering guns is not Constitutional.....

As to solving crimes....it doesn't...
Ten Myths Of The Long Gun Registry | Canadian Shooting Sports Association


Myth #4: Police investigations are aided by the registry.
Doubtful. Information contained in the registry is incomplete and unreliable. Due to the inaccuracy of the information, it cannot be used as evidence in court and the government has yet to prove that it has been a contributing factor in any investigation. Another factor is the dismal compliance rate (estimated at only 50%) for licensing and registration which further renders the registry useless. Some senior police officers have stated as such: “The law registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us solve any of them. None of the guns we know to have been used were registered ... the money could be more effectively used for security against terrorism as well as a host of other public safety initiatives.” Former Toronto Police Chief Julian Fantino, January 2003.


-----

https://www.quora.com/In-countries-...olved-at-least-in-part-by-use-of-the-registry



Tracking physical objects that are easily transferred with a database is non-trivial problem. Guns that are stolen, loaned, or lost disappear from the registry. The data is has to be manually entered and input mistakes will both leak guns and generate false positive results.

Registries don’t solve straw-purchases. If someone goes through all of the steps to register a gun and simply gives it to a criminal that gun becomes unregistered. Assuming the gun is ever recovered you could theoretically try and prosecute the person who transferred the gun to the criminal, but you aren’t solving the crime you were trying to. Remember that people will prostitute themselves or even their children for drugs, so how much deterrence is there in a maybe-get-a-few-years for straw purchasing?

Registries are expensive. Canada’s registry was pitched as costing the taxpayer $2 million and the rest of the costs were to be payed for with registration fees. It was subject to massive cost overruns that were not being met by registrations fees. When the program was audited in 2002 the program was expected to cost over $1 billion and that the fee revenue was only expected to be $140 million.

No gun recovered. If no gun was recovered at the scene of the crime then your registry isn’t even theoretically helping, let alone providing a practical tool. You need a world where criminals meticulously register their guns and leave them at the crime scene for a registry to start to become useful.

Say I have a registered gun, and a known associate of mine was shot and killed. Ballistics is able to determine that my known associate was killed with the same make and model as the gun I registered. A registry doesn’t prove that my gun was used, or that I was the one doing the shooting. I was a suspect as soon as we said “known associate” and the police will then being looking for motive and checking for my alibi.

 

[2aguy]

To answer the question in the title, I'll ask another question to ponder along with yours.

How many people can be put to death with a load from a gun and how many can be put to death with a load of DNA from a rim of a coffee cup?

You're putting forth just another absurd false equivalency! And don't even claim I'm for another such absurd claim because I'm not in favor of blanket gun confiscation! Scalia got it right in Heller! I suggest you try memorizing the first two paragraphs of Section III of the decision which is rock solid precedent and sound law today!

It is not a false equivalency...... wether or not guns can kill you isn't the issue.... the anti gunners claim that registering guns will help reduce gun crime.... taking DNA samples from all citizens would also reduce crime.

It is not a false equivalency...... wether or not guns can kill you isn't the issue...

It's not what many folks across the Nation are upset about with 154 mass shooting in the US between Jan 1 & June 28 of this year already? If resisting gun control efforts isn't your main concern, then why did you even mention that very thing when you initiated this discussion* & with the nick you wear...2A Guy??
* ~~ There have been 154 mass shootings in the US so far in 2018 — here's the full list ~~

Now you've moved on to another false equivalency;

...the anti gunners claim that registering guns will help reduce gun crime.... taking DNA samples from all citizens would also reduce crime.

Registering firearms could well reduce gun crime to some extent as anyone with an open mind can easily surmise. However, taking DNA samples from everyone before hand could never prevent a crime simply because any relevant DNA of the perp left at a crime would only be useful AFTER a crime was committed, which presents another dichotomous absurdity to this second claim of yours.

As a matter of fact, registration of firearms is Constitutional; again see Heller first two paragraphs of Section III again. On the other hand, forcing an individual to give a sample of their DNA against their will without due process is absolutely unconstitutional.

You just proved your own argument wrong about gun registration reducing crime, while you argue DNA samples won't...

Gun Registration is the same as taking DNA samples from law abiding citizens......that you don't see that shows you don't understand the issue.

Registering firearms could well reduce gun crime to some extent as anyone with an open mind can easily surmise. However, taking DNA samples from everyone before hand could never prevent a crime simply because any relevant DNA of the perp left at a crime would only be useful AFTER a crime was committed, which presents another dichotomous absurdity to this second claim of yours.

 

[2aguy]

Registering firearms could well reduce gun crime to some extent as anyone with an open mind can easily surmise.

How so ?

How would allowing habitual felons, the mentally ill and criminal gangs uninhibited access to firearms reduce the incidence of crime for one example?

So registering my gun does what for that ?

I'm not going to play 20 questions with you or play any of your other silly games with you in this forum!

Your post means you can't explain what you said. What you said makes no sense.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

The anti gunners here on U.Smessage and in other places keep calling for gun registration....they falsely believe it will help solve crimes and keep guns out of the hands of crimnals.

If that is so important, and so much other crime actually happens over and above gun murder...why not force every American citizen to submit a DNA sample at Birth? If solving crimes is so important that we need to register all guns, making all gun owners guilty until proven innocent, where is the argument against DNA samples on all of us? Considering how many crimes now involve DNA at the scene of the crime...why not?

This is not a bad idea since convicted felons are required to submit. I would give up my DNA as long as it was not available to the healthcare fat cats or used for research.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

To answer the question in the title, I'll ask another question to ponder along with yours.

How many people can be put to death with a load from a gun and how many can be put to death with a load of DNA from a rim of a coffee cup?

You're putting forth just another absurd false equivalency! And don't even claim I'm for another such absurd claim because I'm not in favor of blanket gun confiscation! Scalia got it right in Heller! I suggest you try memorizing the first two paragraphs of Section III of the decision which is rock solid precedent and sound law today!

It is not a false equivalency...... wether or not guns can kill you isn't the issue.... the anti gunners claim that registering guns will help reduce gun crime.... taking DNA samples from all citizens would also reduce crime.

It is not a false equivalency...... wether or not guns can kill you isn't the issue...

It's not what many folks across the Nation are upset about with 154 mass shooting in the US between Jan 1 & June 28 of this year already? If resisting gun control efforts isn't your main concern, then why did you even mention that very thing when you initiated this discussion* & with the nick you wear...2A Guy??
* ~~ There have been 154 mass shootings in the US so far in 2018 — here's the full list ~~

Now you've moved on to another false equivalency;

...the anti gunners claim that registering guns will help reduce gun crime.... taking DNA samples from all citizens would also reduce crime.

Registering firearms could well reduce gun crime to some extent as anyone with an open mind can easily surmise. However, taking DNA samples from everyone before hand could never prevent a crime simply because any relevant DNA of the perp left at a crime would only be useful AFTER a crime was committed, which presents another dichotomous absurdity to this second claim of yours.

As a matter of fact, registration of firearms is Constitutional; again see Heller first two paragraphs of Section III again. On the other hand, forcing an individual to give a sample of their DNA against their will without due process is absolutely unconstitutional.

They are already registered at purchase.

 

[2aguy]

To answer the question in the title, I'll ask another question to ponder along with yours.

How many people can be put to death with a load from a gun and how many can be put to death with a load of DNA from a rim of a coffee cup?

You're putting forth just another absurd false equivalency! And don't even claim I'm for another such absurd claim because I'm not in favor of blanket gun confiscation! Scalia got it right in Heller! I suggest you try memorizing the first two paragraphs of Section III of the decision which is rock solid precedent and sound law today!

It is not a false equivalency...... wether or not guns can kill you isn't the issue.... the anti gunners claim that registering guns will help reduce gun crime.... taking DNA samples from all citizens would also reduce crime.

It is not a false equivalency...... wether or not guns can kill you isn't the issue...

It's not what many folks across the Nation are upset about with 154 mass shooting in the US between Jan 1 & June 28 of this year already? If resisting gun control efforts isn't your main concern, then why did you even mention that very thing when you initiated this discussion* & with the nick you wear...2A Guy??
* ~~ There have been 154 mass shootings in the US so far in 2018 — here's the full list ~~

Now you've moved on to another false equivalency;

...the anti gunners claim that registering guns will help reduce gun crime.... taking DNA samples from all citizens would also reduce crime.

Registering firearms could well reduce gun crime to some extent as anyone with an open mind can easily surmise. However, taking DNA samples from everyone before hand could never prevent a crime simply because any relevant DNA of the perp left at a crime would only be useful AFTER a crime was committed, which presents another dichotomous absurdity to this second claim of yours.

As a matter of fact, registration of firearms is Constitutional; again see Heller first two paragraphs of Section III again. On the other hand, forcing an individual to give a sample of their DNA against their will without due process is absolutely unconstitutional.

They are already registered at purchase.

Not true. I called my local gun store and they stated they do not register guns to buyers...they have to keep a record of a sale but it is in no way connected to a specific buyer.