If prostitution was legalized countrywide...?

[High_Gravity]

Care4all maybe it depends on the ranch? from watching the show the girls at the Bunny Ranch seemed happy but then again you never know, the owner could be putting those girls up to saying those things for publicity, I do know someone who actually went to the Bunny Ranch and he said the girls charged so much money he couldnt afford anything but to sit there and have a drink with one of them, so somebody is making some serious money in those places.

Yes, the gvt and the brothel owners make a ton of money, and I'm certain the girls do as well, in a FEW of the well known higher priced brothels, but I do not believe this is the case for MOST of their legal sex workers.

the legalization of prostitution is NOT as peachy keen and wonderful of a situation for most of the prostitutes working in them though and for men to just PRETEND that it is....emanates the shallowness of men....

There is more to this legalization through brothels that is deeper than the guys 'dong', legally penetrating her....and all aspects of legal prostitution, including the prostitute and how she is marginalized, should be on the table to discuss and consider, before any federal legalization....besides the fact that this should never be done federally, it is constitutionally up to the States or the people within the State.

You have a point, I guess I didn't think about all that.

 

[MajinLink]

Just legalize brothels. Not many countries would even try to legalize street hookers with pimps.

 

[Bern80]

Yes, the gvt and the brothel owners make a ton of money, and I'm certain the girls do as well, in a FEW of the well known higher priced brothels, but I do not believe this is the case for MOST of their legal sex workers.

the legalization of prostitution is NOT as peachy keen and wonderful of a situation for most of the prostitutes working in them though and for men to just PRETEND that it is....emanates the shallowness of men....

There is more to this legalization through brothels that is deeper than the guys 'dong', legally penetrating her....and all aspects of legal prostitution, including the prostitute and how she is marginalized, should be on the table to discuss and consider, before any federal legalization....besides the fact that this should never be done federally, it is constitutionally up to the States or the people within the State.

Problem is with this position care that you can't really compare the problems in the illegal sex industry with what the problems might be in a legal sex industry. If the prostitution industry were legalized, the outcomes are limitless. Who says a prostitue would continue to work for an unfair owner? Who's to say, now that it's legal, she/he does't work for themself? Or get a bunch of her/his other prostitute friends together and run a business the way they see fit?

The illegality of the industry is what is creating the problems for these people. Look at the plight of someone who chooses to do it now. He/she doesn't have the option to go private. They'll get undercut everytime by the crack whores trying to score their next hit. And the options over who they could work for and the conditions are limited in terms of conditions, locations and for whom.

 

[Care4all]

Yes, the gvt and the brothel owners make a ton of money, and I'm certain the girls do as well, in a FEW of the well known higher priced brothels, but I do not believe this is the case for MOST of their legal sex workers.

the legalization of prostitution is NOT as peachy keen and wonderful of a situation for most of the prostitutes working in them though and for men to just PRETEND that it is....emanates the shallowness of men....

There is more to this legalization through brothels that is deeper than the guys 'dong', legally penetrating her....and all aspects of legal prostitution, including the prostitute and how she is marginalized, should be on the table to discuss and consider, before any federal legalization....besides the fact that this should never be done federally, it is constitutionally up to the States or the people within the State.

Problem is with this position care that you can't really compare the problems in the illegal sex industry with what the problems might be in a legal sex industry. If the prostitution industry were legalized, the outcomes are limitless. Who says a prostitue would continue to work for an unfair owner? Who's to say, now that it's legal, she/he does't work for themself? Or get a bunch of her/his other prostitute friends together and run a business the way they see fit?

The illegality of the industry is what is creating the problems for these people. Look at the plight of someone who chooses to do it now. He/she doesn't have the option to go private. They'll get undercut everytime by the crack whores trying to score their next hit. And the options over who they could work for and the conditions are limited in terms of conditions, locations and for whom.

But as with all things that the government gets their digs in to Bern, it is over regulated and the women are worse off in most cases, than if they continued to work on their own for illegal escort services.

 

[Bern80]

But as with all things that the government gets their digs in to Bern, it is over regulated and the women are worse off in most cases, than if they continued to work on their own for illegal escort services.

I agree. If legal, government needs to keep it's nose out of it for the most part for it to work. I know, good luck getting them to do that.

 

[dilloduck]

But as with all things that the government gets their digs in to Bern, it is over regulated and the women are worse off in most cases, than if they continued to work on their own for illegal escort services.

I agree. If legal, government needs to keep it's nose out of it for the most part for it to work. I know, good luck getting them to do that.

They can't. They exist to take and spend our money so we don't fritter it away.

 

[MikeK]

Mike, it could have been HBO? Was the documentary or the program on the owners of the Brothel, and them trying to get permission to have male prostitutes as well? and on how that madam from California, can't remember her name??/ Oh yeah. Heidi fleish or something of the sort, was trying to get licensed in Nevada for a brothel? sheesh, maybe this was all articles that I read but I believe it was also on something like 48 hours, or 60 minutes or the likes of one of those documentary shows? (but we do have HBO, so who the heck knows at this point???

HBO's Real Sex series runs one or two documentaries (repeats) on the "Bunny Ranch" and the "Chicken Ranch" in Nevada, which is where the women who work there agree to remain on the premises overnight. This is to prevent them from doing outcalls and soliciting in the casinos. It's not an involuntary confinement situation but merely a licensing requirement they either accept or they don't -- and if they don't they can't work there.

But those women make very good money (average $1,000 a night). So they can go there with a bag packed, spend a few nights, or a week, and go home with $5,000 in their pockets. And while this is not a lifestyle most women could accept, some have no problem with it as long as the clientele are gentlemen, a requirement the management strictly enforces.

Heidi Fleiss was a highly successful madam, first in Houston, TX, and later in Hollywood, where she was busted back in the mid-90s and did some prison time. When she got out she went to Nevada and tried to get licensed to set up a brothel somewhere in that state but failed because of her criminal record.

In Hollywood she fronted as a nude photographic model agent. She arranged to have exceptionally beautiful models show up at residences or hotel rooms and her clients were exclusively the rich and famous (including Charlie Sheen). She got into a relationship with a pretty-boy male prostitute who later testified against her, which is how California was able to prosecute her. (The boyfriend/rat took over the business when Heidi went to prison.)

Yes, they are not free women....what other job do you know of in the main stream of jobs, that forces you to stay on the premises of your employer EVEN WHEN YOU ARE OFF THE CLOCK, on your day off? What other job in main stream America, prevents you from having your son or daughter live near you? It's bull like this that enslaves or holds captive these women

I don't think the situation is as imposing as you've been led to believe. As I mentioned, there is a licensing requirement and the management of the brothel enforces it. But the girls definitely don't mind. And those who have kids leave them with family or a nanny while they are away for awhile making a ton of money.

When my brother worked at Oyster Creek Nuclear Power Plant he sometimes had to work extra shifts and sometimes was not allowed to leave the facility for days. That was an agreed condition of his employment contract so he had to go along. Of course he could have just walked out but that would have been the end of his job. Also, New York City firefighters work three and four day rotations during which they are confined to quarters and are not allowed to leave. They cook and sleep there for three or four days at a time, then they are off for several days, then do it again.

amsterdam sounds like they know how to handle this better, but do they too prevent their prostitutes from leaving their complex when they are on their days off or after working hours?

I don't know for sure but I don't think so. In fact I strongly doubt it because those people have a very liberal attitude about such things as prostitution and marijuana. They are not uptight about it so I can't imagine why they would have such a regulation. As long as something isn't causing any problems they are tolerant and mind their business.

There are coffee houses in Amsterdam where marijuana is on the menu and sold at the cashier's counter. You can sit down at a table, order coffee or tea and any number of cakes and cookies made with marijuana, or you can order some indica sinsemilla and a pipe, or a rolled joint, and light up. There are dozens of people sitting around stoned, chatting, and the atmosphere is peaceful and friendly.

Amsterdam is a very beautiful city.

 

[MikeK]

Just legalize brothels. Not many countries would even try to legalize street hookers with pimps.

The only reason there are street hookers and pimps is the law against prostitution. Why would any man, other than the self-degrading degenerate, wish to risk getting a disease from some poor, unclean, drug-addicted wretch when he could visit a licensed brothel where the women are medically monitored and the entire transaction is as safe and sanitary as getting a haircut? The vast majority of men who presently patronize streetwalkers would not if a legal alternative were available to them.

During alcohol prohibition there was no shortage of "bathtub gin," which was home-made rotgut booze that sometimes was concocted with toxic ingredients, such as ethyl alcohol (anti-freeze), and was sold out of car trunks in alleys, hallways and on street corners. Repeal of Prohibition made booze available the quality of which was controlled by government regulation regardless of price. That put an immediate end to "bathtub gin" and its back-alley dealers, which is analogous to streetwalkers and pimps.

 

[MikeK]

But as with all things that the government gets their digs in to Bern, it is over regulated and the women are worse off in most cases, than if they continued to work on their own for illegal escort services.

The women who work for contemporary "escort" services are vulnerable to everything from extortion to rape -- because they are engaging in illegal activity and they cannot go to the police for help without risking arrest. Even those services which are willing to pay for private protection are limited to hiring goons who eventually will turn on them. But if prostitution were legal there are plenty of legitimate, armed, professional bodyguards, many of whom are ex-cops, who would gladly accompany "working girls" and protect them from criminals and psychos.

Referring again to the analogy of alcohol prohibition, I'm sure there were those who simply would not believe that one day they could just walk into a liquor store and choose from a vast selection of bottles, each of which contains an accurately measured, reliably proofed product which is perfectly safe to drink. So we can't just assume that government regulated prostitution would be any less satisfactory and acceptable than government regulated beverage alcohol distribution.

 

[MikeK]

Why don't you research it and come back and tell us if they do or don't make that kind of money working at the legal brothels in Vegas?

also, couldn't they make that kind of money without being regulated and above board legal?

Back in the 1960s a former, highly successful madam named Polly Adler wrote a book called, A House Is Not A Home. It's a fast, interesting, entertaining and very informative book on the business of prostitution. In it she reveals how a girl who is reasonably attractive, who knows how to dress and behave and is able to engage in intelligent conversation, can earn hundreds of thousands of dollars a year by consorting with wealthy and generous men.

As a recent example, Elliott Spitzer was the Governor of New York State until he was busted for consorting with a prostitute in a hotel. It was learned that the price of his four hour visit was four thousand dollars! According to Polly Adler there are men who can hand a girl five thousand dollars as easily as an ordinary man can part with five dollars. (And she is talking about 1960s dollars.)

The problem is when you're making that kind of money in an illegal way you can't go to the police for help when some thug decides to move in on you, which is almost inevitable. If the IRS catches up with you the fines and interest will break you and you could go to prison for tax evasion (e.g., Heidi Fleiss). And there is the occasional sadistic client who knows you can't report his brutal actions without confessing to a crime and takes advantage of that vulnerability.

 

[BDevereaux]

Wow. Hello everyone. I wish more sex workers would search for and participate in these kinds of discussions in order to prevent misinformation put forth by the media and speculation of those who don't understand what it is like to be a sex worker/prostitute.

Many women voluntarily go to the brothels in Nevada to work legally. They are tested for STD's prior to employment and full disclosure is given as to what is required of them (like living at the brothel for x amount of time and not going out after five and the other mentioned restrictions). Generally the requirement is two weeks to two months during which they have to stay there. If this is not acceptable to the prostitute she does not have to take the job. Not quite enslavement in my book if you have a choice without repercussions.

IMO the best model for a brothel type of establishment would be the infamous Chicken Ranch that was located in LaGrange. Some ladies lived there, others did not, they were free to come and go as they pleased but were asked not to "consort" outside of the brothel both for financial reasons to the brothel AND safety reasons. Business and economy boomed (except for during the depression) during this time due to local spending from both the women and the tourists.

To the original topic at hand, most sex workers prefer decriminalization to legalization/regulation. The main reason being that the social stigma will not automatically go away and they don't want their real identities on a public registration record. Can't say that I blame them because the information will reveal itself if they ever leave the industry and try to get a "normal" job. Decriminalization can be effective if the cities/state pass bylaws similar to that of adult video stores. Restrict to certain areas, away from residential, school zones, and churches. Keep laws regarding loitering, trafficking, coercion, child prostitution, and the other harmful crimes.

Only about 10 to 20% of prostitution nowadays is conducted on the street. The internet has moved it indoors and has also allowed women to reject pimping by giving them the ability to advertise for themselves. All the prostitutes/sex workers that I know are not into drugs, gangs, or violence and are not being forced to do this. They choose to do this for the same reason anyone works, to make a living. I don't want to minimize victimization of others but I am not going to exaggerate it either.

If you want to know about sex work, ask a sex worker as opposed to finding your information through the media that has other motives (such as the sale of their stories).

Devereaux
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