If prostitution was legalized countrywide...?

[editec]

If prostitution was legalized countrywide, do you think it would lead to a great many women being forced into the trade against their will?

I've always argued on principle that prostitution shouldn't be against the law. I mean, why shouldn't a woman be allowed to legally sell what she can legally give away for free. But I recently heard an opposing argument I hadn't thought about. Basically that legalized prostitution would lead to more, not less oppression of women and many would be forced into the trade against their will. And for that reason, surrendering this liberty is worth the price.

I'm not totally convinced, but the argument does make some sense.

Done correctly White Slavery ought not to be a problem.

But its that "done correctly" thing that we probably should not count on, eh?

Givent hat much of prostitution is already a kind of White Slavery, though, it might be worth a try.

see, I don't think we can do it rightly...

with the brothels in vegas as a test, we have a very long way to go....the women are still treated as outcasts, and for the most part, held captive by the big business pimp/brothel owner.

Are they?

Well, I guess that would address my "done correctly" caveat, then.

In principle I have no problem with prostitution.

Sadly the practice of it seems to be a kind of slavery that we should not (but obviously do) tolerate.

 

[Care4all]

Done correctly White Slavery ought not to be a problem.

But its that "done correctly" thing that we probably should not count on, eh?

Givent hat much of prostitution is already a kind of White Slavery, though, it might be worth a try.

see, I don't think we can do it rightly...

with the brothels in vegas as a test, we have a very long way to go....the women are still treated as outcasts, and for the most part, held captive by the big business pimp/brothel owner.

Are they?

Well, I guess that would address my "done correctly" caveat, then.

In principle I have no problem with prostitution.

Sadly the practice of it seems to be a kind of slavery that we should not (but obviously do) tolerate.

I saw a documentary on tv about it, but here is some of what i pasted above...

The Nevada counties prefer not to acknowledge the contribution made by licensed prostitution to their bottom line. Some counties and towns impose some extraordinary restrictions on commercial sex workers. The net effect of these regulations is to separate sex workers from the local community. Some jurisdictions require brothel prostitutes to leave the county when they are not working, while others take the opposite tack, forbidding them to leave the brothel where they work. Some do not allow the children of the women who work in the brothels to live in the same area.

The city of Winnemucca requires brothel workers who have cars to register the vehicle with the local police, and workers are not permitted to leave the brothel after 5pm. In some places, registered sex workers are not allowed to have cars at all, so that they must pay someone else to buy necessities like shampoo and soap.

These unique regulations treat brothels and the women who work there as if they are not a part of the local community – despite the contributions they make to the state and the community in the form of taxes, fees and jobs.Melissa Ditmore: Nevada's refusal to tax brothels further alienates sex workers | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

Sure, it might make men feel better about themselves to have them legalized, but it does NOTHING for the woman....(once again).

 

[Douger]

There's Vegas/Reno and DC....DC only has 535 over paid whores.

 

[xotoxi]

I think that the quality of whore would go up.

 

[MikeK]

I saw a documentary on tv about it[...]

Within the past several years I have seen two HBO ("Real Sex") documentaries on the Nevada brothels; the "Bunny Ranch" and the "Chicken Ranch." Unless you saw something else I can't imagine how you've arrived at the conclusion that the women who operate in those places are "slaves."

Nevada is the only place in the U.S. where prostitution is grudgingly legal, i.e., subject to the restrictive and confining regulations outlined in the excerpt you posted. While the regulations require that the prostitutes remain on the brothel premises after 5PM the purpose is not to hold them captive but to prevent them from operating in and around the casinos and other areas of town where prostitution is not legal in Nevada.

In fact, the practice of prostitution in Nevada is rigidly restricted to the two brothels and is illegal elsewhere. But based on what I saw in those two documentaries, and based on what an old buddy of mine has told me, those two brothels are outrageously overpriced and the women who work there are by no means enslaved. They are making big bucks by servicing the high-rollers who hit big in the casinos and want to live big before returning home.

Briefly stated, the situation in Nevada is not a good model for legalized prostitution. A much better example is the city of Amsterdam (The Netherlands). I've been to Amsterdam and I've patronized prostitutes there. The brothels are confined to a specific district (ver Brugge) where there is a variety ranging in price and quality from store-front operations, where women in underwear sit in lighted windows and enticingly invite male passers-by in for a quickie, to quietly sedate and luxurious houses where prices and quality are proportionately higher. The district is patrolled by police and the women who work there are protected.

In addition to that brothel district there are bars in Amsterdam where prostitutes can be found and there are "outcall" services which the police pay no attention to so long as the practice is orderly and discreet. While prostitution is tolerated in Amsterdam it is not laissez faire. It is a good model for legal prostitution and I would call it analogous to driving a car, which is perfectly legal so long as one follows the rules.

I should mention that prostitution in Amsterdam is not formally legalized but, like marijuana, is decriminalized, which is virtually legal. Laws remain on the books but are not enforced so long as the practice remains orderly, which I regard as an acceptable situation.

 

[Care4all]

Mike, it could have been HBO? Was the documentary or the program on the owners of the Brothel, and them trying to get permission to have male prostitutes as well? and on how that madam from California, can't remember her name??/ Oh yeah. Heidi fleish or something of the sort, was trying to get licensed in Nevada for a brothel? sheesh, maybe this was all articles that I read but I believe it was also on something like 48 hours, or 60 minutes or the likes of one of those documentary shows? (but we do have HBO, so who the heck knows at this point???)

and a better word is enslaved instead of slaves...

Yes, they are not free women....what other job do you know of in the main stream of jobs, that forces you to stay on the premises of your employer EVEN WHEN YOU ARE OFF THE CLOCK, on your day off? What other job in main stream America, prevents you from having your son or daughter live near you? It's bull like this that enslaves or holds captive these women....

amsterdam sounds like they know how to handle this better, but do they too prevent their prostitutes from leaving their complex when they are on their days off or after working hours?

 

[Sallow]

If prostitution was legalized countrywide, do you think it would lead to a great many women being forced into the trade against their will?

I've always argued on principle that prostitution shouldn't be against the law. I mean, why shouldn't a woman be allowed to legally sell what she can legally give away for free. But I recently heard an opposing argument I hadn't thought about. Basically that legalized prostitution would lead to more, not less oppression of women and many would be forced into the trade against their will. And for that reason, surrendering this liberty is worth the price.

I'm not totally convinced, but the argument does make some sense.

Why would they be forced into prostitution against their will? Nobody forces people to do other jobs, so I don't understand how this is a legitimate concern.

Because it really happens?

 

[manifold]

For the record, Care4all's contributions to this thread have been nothing short of exemplary.




Throw her some rep for the effort.

 

[sangha]

I saw a documentary on tv about it[...]

Within the past several years I have seen two HBO ("Real Sex") documentaries on the Nevada brothels; the "Bunny Ranch" and the "Chicken Ranch." Unless you saw something else I can't imagine how you've arrived at the conclusion that the women who operate in those places are "slaves."

Nevada is the only place in the U.S. where prostitution is grudgingly legal, i.e., subject to the restrictive and confining regulations outlined in the excerpt you posted. While the regulations require that the prostitutes remain on the brothel premises after 5PM the purpose is not to hold them captive but to prevent them from operating in and around the casinos and other areas of town where prostitution is not legal in Nevada.

In fact, the practice of prostitution in Nevada is rigidly restricted to the two brothels and is illegal elsewhere. But based on what I saw in those two documentaries, and based on what an old buddy of mine has told me, those two brothels are outrageously overpriced and the women who work there are by no means enslaved. They are making big bucks by servicing the high-rollers who hit big in the casinos and want to live big before returning home.

Briefly stated, the situation in Nevada is not a good model for legalized prostitution. A much better example is the city of Amsterdam (The Netherlands). I've been to Amsterdam and I've patronized prostitutes there. The brothels are confined to a specific district (ver Brugge) where there is a variety ranging in price and quality from store-front operations, where women in underwear sit in lighted windows and enticingly invite male passers-by in for a quickie, to quietly sedate and luxurious houses where prices and quality are proportionately higher. The district is patrolled by police and the women who work there are protected.

In addition to that brothel district there are bars in Amsterdam where prostitutes can be found and there are "outcall" services which the police pay no attention to so long as the practice is orderly and discreet. While prostitution is tolerated in Amsterdam it is not laissez faire. It is a good model for legal prostitution and I would call it analogous to driving a car, which is perfectly legal so long as one follows the rules.

I should mention that prostitution in Amsterdam is not formally legalized but, like marijuana, is decriminalized, which is virtually legal. Laws remain on the books but are not enforced so long as the practice remains orderly, which I regard as an acceptable situation.

In wingnut world, I guess I'm considered a slaveowner because I require my employees to work 9-5, M-F

 

[Care4all]

I saw a documentary on tv about it[...]

Within the past several years I have seen two HBO ("Real Sex") documentaries on the Nevada brothels; the "Bunny Ranch" and the "Chicken Ranch." Unless you saw something else I can't imagine how you've arrived at the conclusion that the women who operate in those places are "slaves."

Nevada is the only place in the U.S. where prostitution is grudgingly legal, i.e., subject to the restrictive and confining regulations outlined in the excerpt you posted. While the regulations require that the prostitutes remain on the brothel premises after 5PM the purpose is not to hold them captive but to prevent them from operating in and around the casinos and other areas of town where prostitution is not legal in Nevada.

In fact, the practice of prostitution in Nevada is rigidly restricted to the two brothels and is illegal elsewhere. But based on what I saw in those two documentaries, and based on what an old buddy of mine has told me, those two brothels are outrageously overpriced and the women who work there are by no means enslaved. They are making big bucks by servicing the high-rollers who hit big in the casinos and want to live big before returning home.

Briefly stated, the situation in Nevada is not a good model for legalized prostitution. A much better example is the city of Amsterdam (The Netherlands). I've been to Amsterdam and I've patronized prostitutes there. The brothels are confined to a specific district (ver Brugge) where there is a variety ranging in price and quality from store-front operations, where women in underwear sit in lighted windows and enticingly invite male passers-by in for a quickie, to quietly sedate and luxurious houses where prices and quality are proportionately higher. The district is patrolled by police and the women who work there are protected.

In addition to that brothel district there are bars in Amsterdam where prostitutes can be found and there are "outcall" services which the police pay no attention to so long as the practice is orderly and discreet. While prostitution is tolerated in Amsterdam it is not laissez faire. It is a good model for legal prostitution and I would call it analogous to driving a car, which is perfectly legal so long as one follows the rules.

I should mention that prostitution in Amsterdam is not formally legalized but, like marijuana, is decriminalized, which is virtually legal. Laws remain on the books but are not enforced so long as the practice remains orderly, which I regard as an acceptable situation.

In wingnut world, I guess I'm considered a slaveowner because I require my employees to work 9-5, M-F

huh? We were speaking about the Prostitutes not being allowed to leave the brothel, EVEN ON THEIR DAYS OFF OR THEIR TIME OFF the clock.

What are you referring to Sangha?

 

[sangha]

Within the past several years I have seen two HBO ("Real Sex") documentaries on the Nevada brothels; the "Bunny Ranch" and the "Chicken Ranch." Unless you saw something else I can't imagine how you've arrived at the conclusion that the women who operate in those places are "slaves."

Nevada is the only place in the U.S. where prostitution is grudgingly legal, i.e., subject to the restrictive and confining regulations outlined in the excerpt you posted. While the regulations require that the prostitutes remain on the brothel premises after 5PM the purpose is not to hold them captive but to prevent them from operating in and around the casinos and other areas of town where prostitution is not legal in Nevada.

In fact, the practice of prostitution in Nevada is rigidly restricted to the two brothels and is illegal elsewhere. But based on what I saw in those two documentaries, and based on what an old buddy of mine has told me, those two brothels are outrageously overpriced and the women who work there are by no means enslaved. They are making big bucks by servicing the high-rollers who hit big in the casinos and want to live big before returning home.

Briefly stated, the situation in Nevada is not a good model for legalized prostitution. A much better example is the city of Amsterdam (The Netherlands). I've been to Amsterdam and I've patronized prostitutes there. The brothels are confined to a specific district (ver Brugge) where there is a variety ranging in price and quality from store-front operations, where women in underwear sit in lighted windows and enticingly invite male passers-by in for a quickie, to quietly sedate and luxurious houses where prices and quality are proportionately higher. The district is patrolled by police and the women who work there are protected.

In addition to that brothel district there are bars in Amsterdam where prostitutes can be found and there are "outcall" services which the police pay no attention to so long as the practice is orderly and discreet. While prostitution is tolerated in Amsterdam it is not laissez faire. It is a good model for legal prostitution and I would call it analogous to driving a car, which is perfectly legal so long as one follows the rules.

I should mention that prostitution in Amsterdam is not formally legalized but, like marijuana, is decriminalized, which is virtually legal. Laws remain on the books but are not enforced so long as the practice remains orderly, which I regard as an acceptable situation.

In wingnut world, I guess I'm considered a slaveowner because I require my employees to work 9-5, M-F

huh? We were speaking about the Prostitutes not being allowed to leave the brothel, EVEN ON THEIR DAYS OFF OR THEIR TIME OFF the clock.

What are you referring to Sangha?

Plenty of employees are subject to regs and restrictions that apply equally when they arent working. The employees agree to it. No one is "forced" to stay in the brother. They stay because they want to keep their job.

 

[Care4all]

In wingnut world, I guess I'm considered a slaveowner because I require my employees to work 9-5, M-F

huh? We were speaking about the Prostitutes not being allowed to leave the brothel, EVEN ON THEIR DAYS OFF OR THEIR TIME OFF the clock.

What are you referring to Sangha?

Plenty of employees are subject to regs and restrictions that apply equally when they arent working. The employees agree to it. No one is "forced" to stay in the brother. They stay because they want to keep their job.

right....guess it is time for a Prostitute's UNION.

 

[Care4all]

so you, Sangha, think it is okay for the Brothels to be able to tell citizens of the united states that they can not go to a store and buy their own shampoo, or that they can not go to visit their child, or that they must stay in their working establishment, even when the Brothel is not paying them, even on their time off?

 

[sangha]

so you, Sangha, think it is okay for the Brothels to be able to tell citizens of the united states that they can not go to a store and buy their own shampoo, or that they can not go to visit their child, or that they must stay in their working establishment, even when the Brothel is not paying them, even on their time off?

No one is forced to work in a brothel. No one is being told they can't go to a store and buy their own shampoo, or visit their child, etc

If you had a point, you wouldn't have to lie

 

[Truthmatters]

how would that work though?

let's say the bordello owner fires the prostitute, does she then collect unemployment compensation, but if she refuses to take a new job offer for a new prostitution place, and wants to get out of the field of prostitution, do we take her unemployment away because she refused the prostitution job offer?

Great question Care.

I think there would have to be an exception built into the legalization that a prostitute could not be an employee of anyone.

They would have to be self employed only.

 

[manifold]

right....guess it is time for a Prostitute's UNION.

The International Sisterhood of Whores

 

[Truthmatters]

Self employed ONLY.

A prostitute could hire management like an actor does but NEVER be an employee of someone else.

 

[uscitizen]

If prostitution was legalized countrywide, do you think it would lead to a great many women being forced into the trade against their will?

I've always argued on principle that prostitution shouldn't be against the law. I mean, why shouldn't a woman be allowed to legally sell what she can legally give away for free. But I recently heard an opposing argument I hadn't thought about. Basically that legalized prostitution would lead to more, not less oppression of women and many would be forced into the trade against their will. And for that reason, surrendering this liberty is worth the price.

I'm not totally convinced, but the argument does make some sense.

Why would they be forced into prostitution against their will? Nobody forces people to do other jobs, so I don't understand how this is a legitimate concern.

Because it really happens?

I think much of the "forcing" happens becuase of it's socially unaccepted and illegal status.
if it were just another job?

 

[Truthmatters]

Problem solved if it is only allowed as a self employed business.

They would have to be independent contractors only

 

[Ravi]

so you, Sangha, think it is okay for the Brothels to be able to tell citizens of the united states that they can not go to a store and buy their own shampoo, or that they can not go to visit their child, or that they must stay in their working establishment, even when the Brothel is not paying them, even on their time off?

Do you mean to say that prostitutes are classified as sex offenders...even where prostitution is legal?