If our Government told us we had to....

[xsited1]

No what's not funny is the whole conservative notion of "Classical Liberals". That's complete and utter BULLSHIT. Liberalism isn't a stagnant philosophy. It isn't about the lockstep mentality of conservatism. In short..we aren't you. YOU don't define US. WE define US. Liberalism is about change..and change for the betterment of all humanity. Conservatism is about status quo and protection of the wealthy.

"Conservative notion of 'Classical Liberals'?" That's not a conservative notion. That's just a fact. You're confusing modern-day liberalism with true liberalism. America is one of the only countries where 'liberalism' means just about the opposite of the dictionary definition. The Marxist types co-opted this word decades ago to push their agenda in the name of 'change for the betterment of all humanity'.

You've been duped. What you believe is a lie. I hope you realize it before it's too late.

It's not a "fact"..it's a "factoid" like so many other conservative "factoids". Had conservatives been involved in the revolution..we'd still be subjects of England.

Marxism is NOT liberalism. JFK and LBJ should have proved that for ya. Conservatives are generally the ones cheering at lynchings..and protesting the building of mosques or a religious establishment they don't agree with. They are the ones saying that people from other countries are evil. They are the ones shooting congress people in the head, bombing medical clinics or blowing up federal buildings.

You're confused. And wrong.

I see you have a long way to go. You're still stuck on 'Conservative this' and 'Conservative that' which is keeping you from the truth. I recommend you educate yourself on the subject. There are even Wikipedia articles discussing this like this one:

Modern liberalism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Modern American liberalism combines social liberalism and social progressivism with support for a welfare state and a mixed economy.

The deeper you dig, the more similarities you'll see between Modern American Liberalism and Marxism. Liberalism is all about the status quo.

 

[Two Thumbs]

No what's not funny is the whole conservative notion of "Classical Liberals". That's complete and utter BULLSHIT. Liberalism isn't a stagnant philosophy. It isn't about the lockstep mentality of conservatism. In short..we aren't you. YOU don't define US. WE define US. Liberalism is about change..and change for the betterment of all humanity. Conservatism is about status quo and protection of the wealthy.

Not true. Not at all.

The definition of words don't change, people change.

you are nothing like classic liberals. We have to say classic liberals b/c current liberals have nothing in common with the people that went to war.

Lets take taxes as an example

Then, it was illegal.
Now, it a weapon of political vengence.

You are not a classice liberal, you are a modern one.

Taxes were illegal? Calling taxes weapons of political vengence is responsible?

Did I fall into the Way-Back machine without Mr. Peabody?

'scuse me. I used the wrong word.

Taxes were unconstitutional, back then. To raise money, lotteries, fairs, etc, were used.

Taxes as vengence is dead on though. Tax the rich!! They have plenty! What did they ever do for me!!?!! etc, etc.

 

[Two Thumbs]

No what's not funny is the whole conservative notion of "Classical Liberals". That's complete and utter BULLSHIT. Liberalism isn't a stagnant philosophy. It isn't about the lockstep mentality of conservatism. In short..we aren't you. YOU don't define US. WE define US. Liberalism is about change..and change for the betterment of all humanity. Conservatism is about status quo and protection of the wealthy.

Not true. Not at all.

The definition of words don't change, people change.

you are nothing like classic liberals. We have to say classic liberals b/c current liberals have nothing in common with the people that went to war.

Lets take taxes as an example

Then, it was illegal.
Now, it a weapon of political vengence.

You are not a classice liberal, you are a modern one.

No..I am a liberal.

Back in the day..Liberals agreed with or at least weren't appalled by slavery.

During the civil war..they were.

Back in the day..Liberals thought that white male land owners ought to be the only ones voting.

Now it's just conservatives that feel that way.

According to you, the Signers of the Constitution were all liberals.

So guess you kept slavery legal.

and it was a republican that warred with the south over slavery.

 

[Moonglow]

Not true. Not at all.

The definition of words don't change, people change.

you are nothing like classic liberals. We have to say classic liberals b/c current liberals have nothing in common with the people that went to war.

Lets take taxes as an example

Then, it was illegal.
Now, it a weapon of political vengence.

You are not a classice liberal, you are a modern one.

Taxes were illegal? Calling taxes weapons of political vengence is responsible?

Did I fall into the Way-Back machine without Mr. Peabody?

'scuse me. I used the wrong word.

Taxes were unconstitutional, back then. To raise money, lotteries, fairs, etc, were used.

Taxes as vengence is dead on though. Tax the rich!! They have plenty! What did they ever do for me!!?!! etc, etc.

The first tax was introduced during George Washingtons term. It was a 1/2 cent tax on whiskey, the whiskey makers were so mad they started a rebellion, Washington called out the Army and the Whiskey Rebellion was crushed. There were taxes and shipping fees etc, etc, there was no direct taxation because there really wasn't mush of an income to tax.

 

[Dr.Drock]

There wouldn't be a difference for me, if our country were run by the Bible script or the script of the Quran I'd be killed because I'm a non-believer.

 

[Moonglow]

There wouldn't be a difference for me, if our country were run by the Bible script or the script of the Quran I'd be killed because I'm a non-believer.

so would I. I don't place any faith in invisible deities, mythology or believing advertisers.

 

[Caroljo]

thank you to those who did answer!

I understand what each of you are saying...I'm not saying we should have either one. There is talk of trying to get sharia law into many areas of our nation, it doesn't mean it will happen but it won't stop them from trying. Just as many Christians would like to see the US being a christian nation, which i believe it once was.
We have far less freedoms now than we ever did before...and it has nothing to do with religion. Well, guess it might, since a lot of our freedoms were lost after we were attacked in the name of Islam.

Except we were never a Christian nation..

And I find that some of the worst atrocities ever committed by humans..is usually rooted in the name of some religion that proclaims that it is peaceful.

Most christians i know are peaceful...no doubt there are some radicals out there...just as bad as the radical muslims.

 

[Two Thumbs]

There wouldn't be a difference for me, if our country were run by the Bible script or the script of the Quran I'd be killed because I'm a non-believer.

Christians haven't killed any one for not believing since the Spanish Inquisition.

But, then again

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If the fucking government told me I had to follow any type of religion, that would be the day I would join a militia and take up arms.

 

[Dr.Drock]

There wouldn't be a difference for me, if our country were run by the Bible script or the script of the Quran I'd be killed because I'm a non-believer.

Christians haven't killed any one for not believing since the Spanish Inquisition.

But, then again

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

I agree, I'm very thankful christians don't take God's command seriously in that regard.

But both books say to kill non-believers, so the method I would use to determine which one our gov't would have to be run by would be a coin flip.

 

[Caroljo]

take a vote to make our country into a full "conservative" Christian nation or make it an Islamic nation (sharia law), which would you choose?? The choice is only between these two religions.

Of course a Christian nation wouldn't be a lot different than it is now. Abortions would be illegal, gay marriage would be illegal. You wouldn't be FORCED to go to church or do anything else you don't want to do, because God doesn't force us to do anything for Him.

Sharia law of course would also make gay marriage illegal, i'm not sure of their stand on abortions....You HAVE TO pray to allah (twice a day?), women would wear burkha's, wouldn't drive, etc.

Which would you choose if you HAD TO choose one??

In both cases, religious extremists would be running the show. Both would be repressive. Both would ignore science and the wonders of the mind in favor of blind adherence to arcane dogma.

I'd chose to leave the idiots to themselves.

I love science! I think it's important to have...there's so many wonderful things in this world (that God made) that probably wouldn't have been found or known about without science. I don't believe man came from Ape's tho...to me that's about the craziest thing i've ever heard.
Do you think ALL Christians are extremists? That's about as bad as people thinking ALL muslims are extremists....i don't believe that. But you don't see Christians going to another country to kill their people because they don't like their lifestyle and try to force them to believe in their religion either.

 

[Caroljo]

There wouldn't be a difference for me, if our country were run by the Bible script or the script of the Quran I'd be killed because I'm a non-believer.

Christians haven't killed any one for not believing since the Spanish Inquisition.

But, then again

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

I agree, I'm very thankful christians don't take God's command seriously in that regard.

But both books say to kill non-believers, so the method I would use to determine which one our gov't would have to be run by would be a coin flip.

Where in the Bible does it tell us to kill non-believers? I tried to find it on line, and nothing comes up! I guess i missed that part!

 

[Immanuel]

take a vote to make our country into a full "conservative" Christian nation or make it an Islamic nation (sharia law), which would you choose?? The choice is only between these two religions.

Of course a Christian nation wouldn't be a lot different than it is now. Abortions would be illegal, gay marriage would be illegal. You wouldn't be FORCED to go to church or do anything else you don't want to do, because God doesn't force us to do anything for Him.

Sharia law of course would also make gay marriage illegal, i'm not sure of their stand on abortions....You HAVE TO pray to allah (twice a day?), women would wear burkha's, wouldn't drive, etc.

Which would you choose if you HAD TO choose one??

If those were the only two choices, I would be moving out next week.

As a Christian, I do not want my government telling me what I have to believe, period.

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

take a vote to make our country into a full "conservative" Christian nation or make it an Islamic nation (sharia law), which would you choose?? The choice is only between these two religions.

Of course a Christian nation wouldn't be a lot different than it is now. Abortions would be illegal, gay marriage would be illegal. You wouldn't be FORCED to go to church or do anything else you don't want to do, because God doesn't force us to do anything for Him.

Sharia law of course would also make gay marriage illegal, i'm not sure of their stand on abortions....You HAVE TO pray to allah (twice a day?), women would wear burkha's, wouldn't drive, etc.

Which would you choose if you HAD TO choose one??

Conservative Christian.
Because we were founded as a Christian nation in the first place. Christianity is all about human rights and individual freedom....Baptists were the ones who gave us the separation of church and state nonsense that everyone thinks is part of the constitution now.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Christians haven't killed any one for not believing since the Spanish Inquisition.

But, then again

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

I agree, I'm very thankful christians don't take God's command seriously in that regard.

But both books say to kill non-believers, so the method I would use to determine which one our gov't would have to be run by would be a coin flip.

Where in the Bible does it tell us to kill non-believers? I tried to find it on line, and nothing comes up! I guess i missed that part!

Must not have looked very hard, no offense but this stuff is easy to find and said repeatedly.

Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT - that scoundrels among you are leading - Bible Gateway

Deuteronomy 13:13-19
New Living Translation (NLT)

13 that scoundrels among you are leading their fellow citizens astray by saying, ‘Let us go worship other gods’—gods you have not known before. 14 In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find that the report is true and such a detestable act has been committed among you, 15 you must attack that town and completely destroy[a] all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. 16 Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the open square and burn it. Burn the entire town as a burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. 17 Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the Lord will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a large nation, just as he swore to your ancestors.

Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NIV - gods of the peoples around you, whether - Bible Gateway

Deuteronomy 13:7-12
New International Version (NIV)

7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in



Those 2 particular instances say not only to kill non believers, but kill the entire town, and the other one says kill them even if they're your family.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Christians haven't killed any one for not believing since the Spanish Inquisition.

But, then again

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

I agree, I'm very thankful christians don't take God's command seriously in that regard.

But both books say to kill non-believers, so the method I would use to determine which one our gov't would have to be run by would be a coin flip.

Where in the Bible does it tell us to kill non-believers? I tried to find it on line, and nothing comes up! I guess i missed that part!

Don't suffer a witch to live.

Or something like that.

but if I was to much of a pussy to fight;

I'd have to go with christian. Sundays off, no fasting for a month, only kneeling ~ 3 times on Sunday vs 5 times a day, bacon.

krist, I'm stunned anyone follows that allah non-sense. No BLT's, no bacon and eggs!?!

I'd blow myself up if I couldn't have bacon.

 

[Caroljo]

take a vote to make our country into a full "conservative" Christian nation or make it an Islamic nation (sharia law), which would you choose?? The choice is only between these two religions.

Of course a Christian nation wouldn't be a lot different than it is now. Abortions would be illegal, gay marriage would be illegal. You wouldn't be FORCED to go to church or do anything else you don't want to do, because God doesn't force us to do anything for Him.

Sharia law of course would also make gay marriage illegal, i'm not sure of their stand on abortions....You HAVE TO pray to allah (twice a day?), women would wear burkha's, wouldn't drive, etc.

Which would you choose if you HAD TO choose one??

If those were the only two choices, I would be moving out next week.

As a Christian, I do not want my government telling me what I have to believe, period.

Immie

I agree...I imagine most people would agree too. Just like i don't believe in pushing my Christian beliefs on someone. I do believe it's my duty though as a Christian, and IF asked, that i should discuss Christianity with non-believers, or talking religion with others (as on this board). But i have NEVER told someone if they don't believe that they will go to hell, or told someone they MUST believe in God. I have quite a few friends that are non-believers and i love them like crazy! It doesn't mean they're not good people. I don't get though why some non-believers just have to bash ALL Christians because of what a few idiots might say or do....that's as bad as bashing ALL muslims for the same reason!

 

[Caroljo]

I agree, I'm very thankful christians don't take God's command seriously in that regard.

But both books say to kill non-believers, so the method I would use to determine which one our gov't would have to be run by would be a coin flip.

Where in the Bible does it tell us to kill non-believers? I tried to find it on line, and nothing comes up! I guess i missed that part!

Don't suffer a witch to live.

Or something like that.

but if I was to much of a pussy to fight;

I'd have to go with christian. Sundays off, no fasting for a month, only kneeling ~ on Sunday vs 5 times a day, bacon.

krist, I'm stunned anyone follows that allah non-sense. No BLT's, no bacon and eggs!?!

I'd blow myself up if I couldn't have bacon.

Hmmmm.....that must be old testament (someone correct me if i'm wrong!). The Bible is against people getting into witchcraft and stuff like that because it's considered of Satan.
Good news tho....not ALL christians kneel when praying (heck, i'll talk to God when i'm driving down the road! ) Some christians do fast...but not all.
I know what you mean tho...in fact we had BLT's for dinner last night!!! Love em!!

 

[AllieBaba]

I trust God to sort out what is in people's hearts. I share what I know about salvation, but my understanding does NOT extend to knowing who will go to hell and who will be saved.

I do not opine, for example, on whether people of one Christian religion are more likely than people of another Christian religion to attain heaven. I do not concern myself with whether JWs or Mormons are true Christians. I will let God do that. I find the conversation interesting, and am of the opinion that they have some very fundamentally wrong ideas, but then so do Catholics, and Seventh Day Adventists, and every body else. We aren't perfect, we don't have perfect knowledge, and I am not God and don't know where the line is drawn between doctrine and faith. The bible tells us not to stick at doctrine, and I try not to. I may have opinions but they're just opinions. I love my friends of other faiths, and hope they will achieve heaven. I'm not the person who decides.

 

[Caroljo]

I agree, I'm very thankful christians don't take God's command seriously in that regard.

But both books say to kill non-believers, so the method I would use to determine which one our gov't would have to be run by would be a coin flip.

Where in the Bible does it tell us to kill non-believers? I tried to find it on line, and nothing comes up! I guess i missed that part!

Must not have looked very hard, no offense but this stuff is easy to find and said repeatedly.

Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT - that scoundrels among you are leading - Bible Gateway

Deuteronomy 13:13-19
New Living Translation (NLT)

13 that scoundrels among you are leading their fellow citizens astray by saying, ‘Let us go worship other gods’—gods you have not known before. 14 In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find that the report is true and such a detestable act has been committed among you, 15 you must attack that town and completely destroy[a] all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. 16 Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the open square and burn it. Burn the entire town as a burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. 17 Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the Lord will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a large nation, just as he swore to your ancestors.

Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NIV - gods of the peoples around you, whether - Bible Gateway

Deuteronomy 13:7-12
New International Version (NIV)

7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in



Those 2 particular instances say not only to kill non believers, but kill the entire town, and the other one says kill them even if they're your family.

these are old testament....Christians will read and study the old testament, mostly for the history of it. But we follow the New Testament, and that's where i was looking for this subject. Beside things in the old Test like the 10 commandments (which is the basis for our laws), the New Testament is what we follow. And i have never read where Jesus told us to kill anyone. He says people will die in their sin, meaning they won't make it to heaven if they don't repent, but i don't know of any time He told us to kill anyone.