If Obama loses this election, was this his and his campaign's fault?

[Care4all]

I have seen a few threads on various boards that question the downspiral of Obama's campaign and are trying to peg, exactly what happened.

The question is, if the Obama campaign had picked Hillary as the vp candidate, would he be in this spiral downward in polls now?

And if the answer is no, then who do you think is to blame for this decision of his?

1.His followers, for insisting that Hillary not be picked?

2.His campaign managers?

3.Or him?

4. Or a combination of two or more of the above.

And why do you think such, once you picked one...?

 

[editec]

If Obama loses this election, was this his and his campaign's fault?

Yes

Had O slected Hill as VP, I think he'd have lost more votes than he'd have gotten by selecting her.

 

[PeterS]

I have seen a few threads on various boards that question the downspiral of Obama's campaign and are trying to peg, exactly what happened.

The question is, if the Obama campaign had picked Hillary as the vp candidate, would he be in this spiral downward in polls now?

And if the answer is no, then who do you think is to blame for this decision of his?

1.His followers, for insisting that Hillary not be picked?

2.His campaign managers?

3.Or him?

4. Or a combination of two or more of the above.

And why do you think such, once you picked one...?

First, This was probably Obama's worst week and McCain's best week and we are only looking at a 2 to 3 point spread. For those who think this is over I would suggest they get a grip. Second, this is clearly Obama's campaign to loose so if he does then clearly is will be his fault and fault always has to start at the top.

 

[cristal]

I have seen a few threads on various boards that question the downspiral of Obama's campaign and are trying to peg, exactly what happened.

The question is, if the Obama campaign had picked Hillary as the vp candidate, would he be in this spiral downward in polls now?

And if the answer is no, then who do you think is to blame for this decision of his?

1.His followers, for insisting that Hillary not be picked?

2.His campaign managers?

3.Or him?

4. Or a combination of two or more of the above.

And why do you think such, once you picked one...?

1-3. They are regretful now, since John McCain picked Palin as his running mate. It has thrown them for a loop and his campaign is flailing and on a decline. Both in the polls and in the electoral college votes.

Hindsight is projecting, that if he had picked Hilary, then he would not be in this pickle right now.

And I am glad that he did not. Let Obama and his camp, bear the full 100% brunt of the loss of the 2008 election.

 

[Silence]

Yes

Had O slected Hill as VP, I think he'd have lost more votes than he'd have gotten by selecting her.

I agree 100% which is why I was relieved he didn't buckle to the pressure by the Hillary supporters and pick her.

I think the demise of the Obama campaign is being prematurely celebrated.

 

[Modbert]

I agree 100% which is why I was relieved he didn't buckle to the pressure by the Hillary supporters and pick her.

I think the demise of the Obama campaign is being prematurely celebrated.

Of course Silence, but imagine if we did such a thing to John McCain's campaign?

Barack Obama would of done alot worse by picking Hillary. The McCain campaign would have HOURS of footage of her making comments that would hurt him if he picked her as VP.

If he does lose I think it's a combo of two things:

1.) The amount of damage that Hillary did by staying in the primary instead of leaving when it was impossible for her to win unless she hijacked it with the superdelegates.

2.) Barack Obama trying to play a clean game of Politics up until this point and Barack/Joe being called sexist for every comment that even remotely be related to Sarah Palin.

Every member of the GOP can cry, stomp their foot, and deny this but if Hillary was the VP; you would not see Sarah Palin.

So therefore, it's purely a political choice in order to gain the women vote who feel disgruntled by Hillary not getting the nomination and for the extreme right to know they will be presented in the White House once again.

 

[Care4all]

yeah, you guys are right...!!!!

And really, Hillary should just stay home and NOT campaign for him....in fact, what a huge mistake for her to even speak at the convention on his behalf...HUGE MISTAKE....for Obama to have her do this!!!!!!

Right?

Biden said the same things about Obama, that he was NOT READY to be President....but that's all ok...now, isn't it? Biden and Hillary are no different and are on the same page politically, only Biden has been in Washington longer....why was Biden ok and not Hillary...all the excuses of why she shouldn't be picked are invalid now that he picked Biden, who also thought Hillary should be in his position as vp...

Silence and Robert and any others that hate Hillary soooooooooo much....I thought you belonged to the party with the big tent, but that's another thread topic i would suppose...?

(Just so you know, when you espouse your hatred towards Hillary, you espouse your hatred towards those 18 million Democrats that supported her in the primary and are doing no favors for the Obama campaign to become president imho!)

let me ask you this, are you saying that you hated Hillary so much that YOU personally would not have voted for Obama if he had picked her?

Who, of the Obama supporters would not have continued to vote for Obama if he had picked her for his vp? What group of his supporters would have gone to vote for mccain or chosen not to vote at all?

The reason I ask is because you have said that Obama would be in a worse scenario than he is in now if he had chosen her so I would like to know who it is that would not have continued to cast their vote for Obama if he had chosen Hillary?

To me, no one would have stopped supporting him...which means that picking Hillary would have only HELPED him win the presidential seat, bringing others that were not in his camp, in to his camp.

yes, this is only one week in hell for the Obama campaign, and he has the time to recoup, but he should not in anyway be the underdog in this race, EVER....and McCain should never be having the good week he is having....Obama should be smearing mccain in the polls no matter who McCain had picked as vp...this is why the 2nd guessing and this thread has been started....

care

 

[Modbert]

yeah, you guys are right...!!!!

And really, Hillary should just stay home and NOT campaign for him....in fact, what a huge mistake for her to even speak at the convention on his behalf...HUGE MISTAKE....for Obama to have her do this!!!!!!

Right?

Biden said the same things about Obama, that he was NOT READY to be President....but that's all ok...now, isn't it? Biden and Hillary are no different and are on the same page politically, only Biden has been in Washington longer....why was Biden ok and not Hillary...all the excuses of why she shouldn't be picked are invalid now that he picked Biden, who also thought Hillary should be in his position as vp...

Silence and Robert and any others that hate Hillary soooooooooo much....I thought you belonged to the party with the big tent, but that's another thread topic i would suppose...?

(Just so you know, when you espouse your hatred towards Hillary, you espouse your hatred towards those 18 million Democrats that supported her in the primary and are doing no favors for the Obama campaign to become president imho!)

let me ask you this, are you saying that you hated Hillary so much that YOU personally would not have voted for Obama if he had picked her?

Who, of the Obama supporters would not have continued to vote for Obama if he had picked her for his vp? What group of his supporters would have gone to vote for mccain or chosen not to vote at all?

The reason I ask is because you have said that Obama would be in a worse scenario than he is in now if he had chosen her so I would like to know who it is that would not have continued to cast their vote for Obama if he had chosen Hillary?

To me, no one would have stopped supporting him...which means that picking Hillary would have only HELPED him win the presidential seat, bringing others that were not in his camp, in to his camp.

yes, this is only one week in hell for the Obama campaign, and he has the time to recoup, but he should not in anyway be the underdog in this race, EVER....and McCain should never be having the good week he is having....Obama should be smearing mccain in the polls no matter who McCain had picked as vp...this is why the 2nd guessing and this thread has been started....

care

I believe she should help campaign to help undo the damage she did.

I don't hate hillary, unless you can stop flipping out and point to where? All I stated was she stayed in when it was long after impossible for her to win unless the superdelegates overturned it. That's what we call FACT.

(Just so you know, when you espouse your hatred towards Hillary, you espouse your hatred towards those 18 million Democrats that supported her in the primary and are doing no favors for the Obama campaign to become president imho!)

That I just honestly laughed at. Again, I don't hate Hillary or my fellow 18 million Democrats.

If he had chosen Hillary, I would of still voted for him. The Republicans would of had a field day though.

These are all facts. So care, do me a favor and reread what I said, stop flipping out, and calm down.

Your making a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

[Navy1960]

yeah, you guys are right...!!!!

And really, Hillary should just stay home and NOT campaign for him....in fact, what a huge mistake for her to even speak at the convention on his behalf...HUGE MISTAKE....for Obama to have her do this!!!!!!

Right?

Biden said the same things about Obama, that he was NOT READY to be President....but that's all ok...now, isn't it? Biden and Hillary are no different and are on the same page politically, only Biden has been in Washington longer....why was Biden ok and not Hillary...all the excuses of why she shouldn't be picked are invalid now that he picked Biden, who also thought Hillary should be in his position as vp...

Silence and Robert and any others that hate Hillary soooooooooo much....I thought you belonged to the party with the big tent, but that's another thread topic i would suppose...?

(Just so you know, when you espouse your hatred towards Hillary, you espouse your hatred towards those 18 million Democrats that supported her in the primary and are doing no favors for the Obama campaign to become president imho!)

let me ask you this, are you saying that you hated Hillary so much that YOU personally would not have voted for Obama if he had picked her?

Who, of the Obama supporters would not have continued to vote for Obama if he had picked her for his vp? What group of his supporters would have gone to vote for mccain or chosen not to vote at all?

The reason I ask is because you have said that Obama would be in a worse scenario than he is in now if he had chosen her so I would like to know who it is that would not have continued to cast their vote for Obama if he had chosen Hillary?

To me, no one would have stopped supporting him...which means that picking Hillary would have only HELPED him win the presidential seat, bringing others that were not in his camp, in to his camp.

yes, this is only one week in hell for the Obama campaign, and he has the time to recoup, but he should not in anyway be the underdog in this race, EVER....and McCain should never be having the good week he is having....Obama should be smearing mccain in the polls no matter who McCain had picked as vp...this is why the 2nd guessing and this thread has been started....

care

You know, I think as a Republican, a lot of your democrats are missing the mark here. If Barack Obama had chosen Hillary as his running mate it would have done two things. The first thing is it wold have completely solidified your party, all those independants that voted for her would still not be in that undecided catagory. The second thing it would have done, is it would have forced John McCain to pick a different running mate, in that his choice of Sarah Palin would have been seen as a token choice, had Obama picked Hillary. So in that respect Obama made a huge tactical error in not doing so, he basically ceeded a large voting block that sometimes Votes democratic and sometimes votes republican to the republicans. He is now playing catchup, and if he loses this election , that is where the biggest mistake will be at. Let me cite you a real life example I know of, my father a die hard democrat, and ardent Hillary supporter is so upset still over the primaries, he and all the many seniors that are of his ilk that I know of are now voting for McCain and are not doing so in a passive manner. The reaction to the Palin pick can also be a factor if Obama should not prevail, the campaign put too much focus on the Republican number two for to long a period of time after the conventions and allowed their candidate to be off message for too long a period of time thus nullifying what should have been his convention ride to Nov. Just some thoughts, now you may think Hillary would have galvanized the Republicans, and prehaps so, but as a republican, I can tell you we are all quite happy he didn't pick her.

 

[cristal]

Of course Silence, but imagine if we did such a thing to John McCain's campaign?

Barack Obama would of done alot worse by picking Hillary. The McCain campaign would have HOURS of footage of her making comments that would hurt him if he picked her as VP.

If he does lose I think it's a combo of two things:

1.) The amount of damage that Hillary did by staying in the primary instead of leaving when it was impossible for her to win unless she hijacked it with the superdelegates.

2.) Barack Obama trying to play a clean game of Politics up until this point and Barack/Joe being called sexist for every comment that even remotely be related to Sarah Palin.

Every member of the GOP can cry, stomp their foot, and deny this but if Hillary was the VP; you would not see Sarah Palin.

So therefore, it's purely a political choice in order to gain the women vote who feel disgruntled by Hillary not getting the nomination and for the extreme right to know they will be presented in the White House once again.

or
3.) The obvious. Obama is a lousy choice for President.

 

[Modbert]

or
3.) The obvious. Obama is a lousy choice for President.

Really now?

Tell me how Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are THAT much different policy wise?

Personality and running your campaign is not included under that.

I mean on the issues.

 

[Ravi]

It's always been pretty clear to me that if Obama loses this election that the Obamabots will blame Hillary for it.

That's just sad, IMO. They'll have no one to blame but themselves and Obama.

But Care, I think you are jumping the gun.

 

[Modbert]

It's always been pretty clear to me that if Obama loses this election that the Obamabots will blame Hillary for it.

That's just sad, IMO. They'll have no one to blame but themselves and Obama.

But Care, I think you are jumping the gun.

Well I am certainly no Obamabot and not blaming Hillary herself if Obama loses.

However, it would be ignorant to ignore the amount of damage that Hillary did to the Democratic party and Barack by staying in the campaign long after it was impossible for her to win.

The only one way she could of won was if the superdelegates overturned what the majority of the people chose and voted her in.

If they had done that, the Democrats would of lost in November by a landslide.

 

[Care4all]

Of course Silence, but imagine if we did such a thing to John McCain's campaign?

Barack Obama would of done alot worse by picking Hillary. The McCain campaign would have HOURS of footage of her making comments that would hurt him if he picked her as VP.

If he does lose I think it's a combo of two things:

1.) The amount of damage that Hillary did by staying in the primary instead of leaving when it was impossible for her to win unless she hijacked it with the superdelegates.

2.) Barack Obama trying to play a clean game of Politics up until this point and Barack/Joe being called sexist for every comment that even remotely be related to Sarah Palin.

Every member of the GOP can cry, stomp their foot, and deny this but if Hillary was the VP; you would not see Sarah Palin.

So therefore, it's purely a political choice in order to gain the women vote who feel disgruntled by Hillary not getting the nomination and for the extreme right to know they will be presented in the White House once again.

you were not around on this site during the primaries, so you have not seen all that has been said.

you are mistaken....it was not just women that voted for Hillary, it was pretty evenly split, slight favor to females but not much...

Obama did NOT have enough delegates to win the election until the VERY LAST primary.....

period.

He could not close the deal earlier. (This was NOT Hillary's fault, but his own) And NO WAY should Hillary have dropped out before Obama had enough delegates to win....with the race as close as it was.

Obama, was the one that was working the Super Delegates behind closed doors while the primary race was still going on, CONTRARY to the lies his supporters put out that it was Hillary that was "working" the super delegates to vote for her...just an fyi, you can google this and see the truth.

So, she did NOT cheat as you are saying....and if you believed that her working the super delegates was cheating when you THOUGHT that she was doing it, then was Obama cheating by doing the very thing you accused Hillary of doing behind closed doors?

you know, I'm not certain i will ever forgive you guys for the lies you believed that the RNC started about Hillary...you were HAD, by the RNC...her campaign did NOT release the pic on Obama wearing African Garb that Drudge put out, but you all jumped all over the Hillary camp for such...while the republicans sat back and laughed.

She was NOT the one that started the "obama is a muslim" rumor...but the republicans were and you believed their lies and were onboard lock, stock and barrel, when they tried to pin this on Hillary.... I can go on and on and on and on about how you played right in to the republicans hands by buying in to the rumors THEY STARTED about Hillary....

I chalk it up to his supporters being too young to know the tactics of repubs and the lengths that they will go to win an election through division, you know, the divide and conquer tactic....playing dirty.

Wise up Robert, so you won't be HAD again....

I'm not freaking out? I am just amazed at the visceral comments and feelings you all still have for Hillary and her supporters.

care

 

[greenpartyaz]

I have seen a few threads on various boards that question the downspiral of Obama's campaign and are trying to peg, exactly what happened.

The question is, if the Obama campaign had picked Hillary as the vp candidate, would he be in this spiral downward in polls now?

And if the answer is no, then who do you think is to blame for this decision of his?

1.His followers, for insisting that Hillary not be picked?

2.His campaign managers?

3.Or him?

4. Or a combination of two or more of the above.

And why do you think such, once you picked one...?

He is a Democrat, and Democrats are notorious for blowing it at the most crucial moments in elections. You could run a sock against Barack Obama, and a percentage of the population who would never vote for a Democrat, would vote for the sock! It's just that simple. 45% of people vow to never vote for a Democrat. That is how hardcore the Republican vote is!

 

[Care4all]

Well I am certainly no Obamabot and not blaming Hillary herself if Obama loses.

However, it would be ignorant to ignore the amount of damage that Hillary did to the Democratic party and Barack by staying in the campaign long after it was impossible for her to win.

The only one way she could of won was if the superdelegates overturned what the majority of the people chose and voted her in.

If they had done that, the Democrats would of lost in November by a landslide.

Obama DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH VOTES to win the primary UNTIL the last state's primary, got it?

She was NOT LOSING BIGTIME, Obama was the one that was losing ground against her thae last 6-8 weeks of the race.....

Why do you keep saying she should have dropped out when Obama did not have enough delegates to even win the primary? That's ridiculous...absolutely ridiculous....

Did you think Ted Kennedy should have dropped out of his primary run? What is this crap with you guys wanting Obama to win the primary through DEFAULT and not by winning it through votes?

Sheesh, what a TOTAL DISREGARD for Democracy and the citizen's votes....

 

[cristal]

Really now?

Tell me how Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are THAT much different policy wise?

Personality and running your campaign is not included under that.

I mean on the issues.

Well, I am going to give it all to you.

The difference between Obama and Hillary is that Obama has ONLY been a Senator for 3yrs. Half of that time is spent on the campaign trail.

Hillary has been a New York Senator for 7 yrs. and she actually worked, during that 7 yrs.

Obama has no major legislative experience to speak of.

Voted "present" 132 times during legislative hearings.

A flip-flopper. Backed the DC ban on handguns when the court ruled that it was "unconstitutional". Then when the court reversed its decision, he sided with the courts.

Flip-flop again, on the FISA Bill. He voted for it, before he was against it.

Changes the time-frame, regarding bringing the troops home, more often than he changes his underwear.

Associated himself with a well known unrepentant terrrorist - William Ayers.

Sat in the Rev. Wright's church for 20 years and claimed that he found out with the rest of America, that the Reverend spewed hate from the pulpit.

Will raise taxes for everyone, earning more than $42,000 annually.

His health-care plan sucks. So is his foreign policy plan.

He is thin-skinned and cannot go up against the attacks of the Republican attack machine.

Are those enough reasons?

 

[cristal]

Obama DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH VOTES to win the primary UNTIL the last state's primary, got it?

She was NOT LOSING BIGTIME, Obama was the one that was losing ground against her thae last 6-8 weeks of the race.....

Why do you keep saying she should have dropped out when Obama did not have enough delegates to even win the primary? That's ridiculous...absolutely ridiculous....

Did you think Ted Kennedy should have dropped out of his primary run? What is this crap with you guys wanting Obama to win the primary through DEFAULT and not by winning it through votes?

Sheesh, what a TOTAL DISREGARD for Democracy and the citizen's votes....

You are right. Obama "limped" to the nomination. He lost the last 6-7 primaries.

The Superdelegates were the ones, that pushed him over the top.

I hope that they are happy now.

 

[Modbert]

you were not around on this site during the primaries, so you have not seen all that has been said.

you are mistaken....it was not just women that voted for Hillary, it was pretty evenly split, slight favor to females but not much...

Obama did NOT have enough delegates to win the election until the VERY LAST primary.....

period.

He could not close the deal earlier. (This was NOT Hillary's fault, but his own) And NO WAY should Hillary have dropped out before Obama had enough delegates to win....with the race as close as it was.

Obama, was the one that was working the Super Delegates behind closed doors while the primary race was still going on, CONTRARY to the lies his supporters put out that it was Hillary that was "working" the super delegates to vote for her...just an fyi, you can google this and see the truth.

So, she did NOT cheat as you are saying....and if you believed that her working the super delegates was cheating when you THOUGHT that she was doing it, then was Obama cheating by doing the very thing you accused Hillary of doing behind closed doors?

you know, I'm not certain i will ever forgive you guys for the lies you believed that the RNC started about Hillary...you were HAD, by the RNC...her campaign did NOT release the pic on Obama wearing African Garb that Drudge put out, but you all jumped all over the Hillary camp for such...while the republicans sat back and laughed.

She was NOT the one that started the "obama is a muslim" rumor...but the republicans were and you believed their lies and were onboard lock, stock and barrel, when they tried to pin this on Hillary.... I can go on and on and on and on about how you played right in to the republicans hands by buying in to the rumors THEY STARTED about Hillary....

I chalk it up to his supporters being too young to know the tactics of repubs and the lengths that they will go to win an election through division, you know, the divide and conquer tactic....playing dirty.

Wise up Robert, so you won't be HAD again....

I'm not freaking out? I am just amazed at the visceral comments and feelings you all still have for Hillary and her supporters.

care

I however was reading several political sites. So I've seen what has been said. Some of the biggest insults to Barack Obama have come from people in PUMA,etc.

He did not have enough delegates to win the primary until the last primary vote perhaps but he had more delegates.

I do believe the way the Democratic Primary is set up has several flaws and more states should be given delegates instead of superdelegates.

Google Hillary Clinton targets Pledged Delegates. So you know all those people who voted for Obama? That representation of their vote was tried to be changed to Hillary by Hillary herself.

Hillary: Obama Not Muslim "As Far As I Know"

She sure didn't seem to disclaim that rumor though.

I chalk it up to his supporters being too young to know the tactics of repubs and the lengths that they will go to win an election through division, you know, the divide and conquer tactic....playing dirty.

People of all ages voted for Obama, what are you smoking?

If I recall, it was Rush telling Republicans to go vote for Hillary in the primaries so they would continue to go on longer.

I know the tactics of the republicans, to say because I may be a bit young I don't know is just IGNORANT.

And yes, your the one who is flipping out. I've stated facts here, your the one who seems visibly angry.

 

[Ravi]

Well I am certainly no Obamabot and not blaming Hillary herself if Obama loses.

However, it would be ignorant to ignore the amount of damage that Hillary did to the Democratic party and Barack by staying in the campaign long after it was impossible for her to win.

The only one way she could of won was if the superdelegates overturned what the majority of the people chose and voted her in.

If they had done that, the Democrats would of lost in November by a landslide.

This is silly. Hillary didn't damage the Democratic party. And the more you guys keep pretending she did, the weaker you make Obama look.

Why would you want to make Obama look weak? Save your recriminations until after the election.

Obama is running against McCain. If you actually want him to win, you'll keep that in mind.