If Obama is Socialist

[eagleseven]

Further, measured objectively (in un-inflated currency), the stock market is far worse today than it was in 2001. Below is the Dow Jones Industrial average, priced in gold, not US$.

Does that look like an improvement to you? The MSM are dupes...

That might actually mean something if gold was some sort of universal constant.

Gold is far more constant than the US$, in terms of real value.

Since the US$ lost 25% of its value since 2001, comparing the raw Dow numbers from 2001 and today is comparing apples and oranges.

From a purchasing power perspective (which is the most real measure of a nation's wealth), the stock market is far worse than it was in 2001. That's a fact.

 

[Ame®icano]

Off topic:

Does anyone knows, what happen with all that gold in reserve when we abandoned gold standard?

 

[Oscar Wao]

To the OP:

You do realize that these economic "hopes" can really be just illusions, right?

 

[eagleseven]

Off topic:

Does anyone knows, what happen with all that gold in reserve when we abandoned gold standard?

A little over 8,000 tons of it is still sitting in Fort Knox. Around 4,000 tons are held by private individuals, 3,000 by the IMF, and the other 143,000 tons are held by other world governments.

 

[user_name_guest]

If they Yankees are losing tonight, should we bail them out. Say Angels are up 3-1...should we give the Yankees 3 runs so they can win 4-3?

 

[Ame®icano]

The fat lady ain't sung yet, and the employment figures are still negative. Just a few markers are beginning to move up, but that is much better than the dive done last winter. We seem to be backing away from the Second Great Republican Depression.

Hey Old Rocks!!! Is this your relative?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg98BvqUvCc]YouTube - OBAMA'S GONNA PAY FOR MY GAS...[/ame]

 

[Shorebreak]

Yeah and that brand is called various things... Corporatism, is fascism, which is progressivism... and it's all socialism.

We're on the same page here but I disagree with you on a few points. For example, Marxism is not socialism. It applies socialist tenets to appeal to those who believe they are oppressed, but it's not a socialist system. I disagree at the foundational level with both marxist and socialist philosohies, but I also recognize that there are differences between them. In fact, if you've read the works and the speeches of Marx, you understand how "corporatism" is the goal of Marxism. There is no point in establishing a central bank if you do not have the finance organization to support it - which requires private banking.

Wonderful... Learn the language and recognize that there is nothing new under the sun... don't buy into the bullshit of corporatism... as that term is designed to undermine your entire position as you've defined your ideology.

As the owner of several corporations, I do not concede anything to a socialist, for any reason. Those companies serve my interests and my interests only... to do that, I serve the interests of my clients... and the ONLY thing which threatens any of that, is the government.

Hussein is a socialist... and incontrovertibly so. He is the enemy of freedom... Socialism is tyranny... That's it... Nothing more to it. Shut it down... crush it... or suffer the catastrophic consequences common to it.

We need to clarify something here. First off is that corporatism is NOT fascism. It's an integral element of fascism. There has only been one fascist state in world history, established in Italy by British agent Benito Mussolini. We're not fascist Italy yet, but under Obama's corporatist policies we soon could be - especially if we allow an attack on US soil and Obama uses it to drum up false patriotism and a fear-generated need for massive law enforcement. I wouldn't put it past him for a second. Especially since he needs tens of thousands more patriotic troops to further isolate Russia from Central Asian resources.

If we're attacked - let's assume a Mumbai style attack in multiple US cities - Obama comes out as the patriotic leader who follows in the footsteps of George Bush, and millions of indoctrinated Hannity and Limbaugh acolytes suddenly begin to hail Obama and praise him for mandatory curfews, house-to-house searches, and possibly even gun confiscations. That's probably a worst-case/borderline rediculous scenario, but I wouldn't put it past Obama. He's worse than Bush.

Getting back on focus, the term corporatism refers to co-leadership with business (finance corporations) and government working together. It requires control of media in order to control the thoughts and opinions of the citizens. The fact that it utilizes socailism as a tool to take our money does not mean that it's a socialist system.

Neither does corporatism mean that corporations are bad. I happen to like them. But that doesn't change the fact that corporatism is a terrible thing.

So here's the important thing:

Corporatism is not actually an ideolgy. It's a circumstance where the government has lost control to private interests - who control the media in order to perpetuate and expand their control. But.... corporatism will utilize ideologies that it sees as most useful to achieve it's objectives.

Finally, if anyone defines Obama as a marxist (which Obama IS) AND a socialist, there is a serious disconnect. A Marxist is a corporatist who uses socialism as a tool to allow private corporations to gain hidden control.

We both agree that Obama is a terrible thing for this country. I'm taking your socialism/Marxism bet ...and I'm raising it by a corporatism. I'm not denying your concerns. I'm saying that there's another level that most people who call Obama a marxist are not even aware of. He's an agent of big finance, who stands to benefit when they are controlling money policy AND our money. That's called corporatism.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Yeah and that brand is called various things... Corporatism, is fascism, which is progressivism... and it's all socialism.

We're on the same page here but I disagree with you on a few points. For example, Marxism is not socialism. It applies socialist tenets

Where it becomes socialism, friend... Look, I am not interested in discussing the nuance of each irrelevant facet of socialism. I draw absolutely no distinction from or for any of it...

It's all exactly the same thing...

In fact, if you've read the works and the speeches of Marx, you understand how "corporatism" is the goal of Marxism.

Uh huh... Marx’s bitch was that the proletariat weren’t the bourgeoisie... In a nutshell, Marx was envious of those who were doing what he could not do… which is no different from Mussolini…, Hitler; the same with Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Ted Kennedy, Jimma Cawta… and the rest of them.

The only other variable are those who can and use socialism is a means to game the system… Such as George Soros…

Wonderful... Learn the language and recognize that there is nothing new under the sun... don't buy into the bullshit of corporatism... as that term is designed to undermine your entire position as you've defined your ideology.

As the owner of several corporations, I do not concede anything to a socialist, for any reason. Those companies serve my interests and my interests only... to do that, I serve the interests of my clients... and the ONLY thing which threatens any of that, is the government.

Hussein is a socialist... and incontrovertibly so. He is the enemy of freedom... Socialism is tyranny... That's it... Nothing more to it. Shut it down... crush it... or suffer the catastrophic consequences common to it.

We need to clarify something here. First off is that corporatism is NOT fascism. It's an integral element of fascism.

Man... those thing which are integral to something are part and parcel of that thing.

Now please... enough with the pedantic semantics.

So here's the important thing:

Corporatism is not actually an ideolgy. It's a circumstance where the government has lost control to private interests - who control the media in order to perpetuate and expand their control. But.... corporatism will utilize ideologies that it sees as most useful to achieve it's objectives.

Corporatism is fascism... the bundling of business and government... <<Clue...

Finally, if anyone defines Obama as a marxist (which Obama IS) AND a socialist, there is a serious disconnect. A Marxist is a corporatist who uses socialism as a tool to allow private corporations to gain hidden control.

Man there every one of these pedantries is IRRELVANT...

It's ALL SOCIALISM... It all evolves around the myth of 'social justice'... it's said to be the application of SOCIAL SCIENCE...

It is a MAJOR error to allow yourself to get bogged down in ANY of that crap. It simply provides as a means to diffuse your argument; to distract you from advancing an effective opposition to ALL OF IT.

There are no viable examples of Socialism... as every example must reject the unalienable rights on which America rests... and frankly, that's all I need to know to reject it.

Now all you have to do to test that, is to go to any Message board on the internet which caters to political debate... read sufficient content to determine who the players are...

Open a thread which queries the origins and/or composition of human rights... and with exceedingly rare exception, you'll find that those who your research indicated were Leftists.... or 'Independent, moderate, centrist, progressive, liberal...' will adamently proclaim that 'there are no human rights'... the less radical element will run the alternative notion: 'all human rights are the majority says they are'... and so on...

With the bottom line being that the core of the socialist advocacy will reject out of hand, the 'self evident truth that we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights...'


And that is a belief structure which runs in direct opposition to the immutable principles on which America rests... thus runs in direct opposition to America; thus represents the enemy of America... and this without regard to their status as a US Citizen.

 

[KMAN]

then why is the stock market doing better under him than it did under Bush?

Recessions naturally last about 16 months... Well 16 months are up... I don't think it has anything to do with the President... Besides the Democrats have been in control of Congress (you know the people who make the monetary decisions) since November 2006 (Just about the same time the economy tanked...) Just sharing facts that can not be disputed.

Check out the 3 year average...

INDU Index Quote - Dow Jones Industrial Average Index Quote - INDU Quote - INDU Index Price

Have a great day.

 

[MaggieMae]

Yes, there are few markers... like this one.



Foreclosures: 'Worst three months of all time' - CNN Money.

And what else is Obama supposed to do about foreclosures? Funny that, once again, after I read through a ton of criticism, not a damned one of you has any solutions of your own.

It's not question what he suppose to do, but what he has done.

Have you heard of Loan Modification Bill? The money given to lenders to help people stay in their homes, still sits in the lenders bank accounts. Meanwhile, people are getting tossed out of their homes and the lenders aren't modifying squat. But think of it this way, the lenders can use the money we gave them to modify loans and instead use it to maintain the foreclosed houses as the prices begin to rise and make money on the deal.

The same lenders and investment bankers have to have enough money to donate to Chris Dodd and Barney Frank's campaigns and still make enough for bonuses. What do you think, who crafted that bill?

H.R.1106

Where is your source for saying that lenders aren't modifying squat? The program hasn't moved as quickly as anticipated, but loans ARE being made. Banks are understandably jittery about WHO they take on because many that have benefited from loan modifications are already falling behind.

Your last comment is basically FoxNews generated that it's not worth responding to any further.

 

[MaggieMae]

What you're describing is fascism... which is little more than socialism lite... a transition to socialism..

The argument of such advocacies is that the relevant problems of any given period are a function of the private aspects... the solutions are always more and more control by the government... and by default that reuires less and less private control; all of which correlates to greater taxation and regulatory liabilities being heaped on to business; meaning fewer profits remaining with the private 'ownership'...

This isn't a complex issue... to the contrary, it is decidedly simple.

Hussein's entire life from his parent's ideology, to his formative college years; his self proclaimed mentors; his associations; his working career have ALL focused upon and revolved directly around socialism and the ethereal notions of social justice...

And that depicts NOTHING BUT Socialism... now you may be ignorant of what Socialism is... ya may want to believe that Socialism is some abstract, or that for socialism to exist it must appear in an instant, through some miraculous manifestation or other form of revolutionary transformation.

Sadly, your ignorance of such is simply absurd... as Socialism is merely the absurd notion that fairness equates to equality and need is that which government serves to fill... OKA: Social Justice... and it is comprised of the absurdities that come in the form of ideas... Ideas, meaning an ideology... which in the case of socialism is the Leftist ideology.

I understand that those who are often educated beyond their cognitive means, like to dance within the pretense that Socialism is a multifaceted jewel of diverse ideologies... each unique unto itself.

But the simple truth is that Socialism is Socialism... Left-think is left-think... there's nothing unique about any of its numerous facets; except that those facets represent various individual interests which are vying to secure power... FOR THEMSELVES.

You missed my point. I didn't say that Obama isn't practicing or implementing socailist policies. I said he's not a socialist. He's a corporatist.

No... I didn't miss it... I flat out corrected you. Hussein is a Marxist, who is in the process of 'fundamentally changing America, from a Capitalist free market, based upon individual liberty, to a socialist trainwreck.

He could not just declare the US a communist State... as had he done so, his ass would be sitting in Venezuala right now, in exile... if not in Federal Prison.

He's a Marxist, not an imbecile... granted the two are fairly close in some aspects... but there are distinctions.

In the current context, corporatism uses a brand of socialism (not real socialism as a socialist purist would define it) as it's wedge to maintain and grow it's power.

Yeah and that brand is called various things... Corporatism, is fascism, which is progressivism... and it's all socialism.

If you're confused about whether or not I'm promoting or defending any of it, here's you're clarification - my personal ideology sounds something like this:

"Keep your hands off my stack, Jack. If you're with the federal government and the US Constitution didn't delegate authority to do what you do - leave your job and find lawful, honest work."

Wonderful... Learn the language and recognize that there is nothing new under the sun... don't buy into the bullshit of corporatism... as that term is designed to undermine your entire position as you've defined your ideology.

As the owner of several corporations, I do not concede anything to a socialist, for any reason. Those companies serve my interests and my interests only... to do that, I serve the interests of my clients... and the ONLY thing which threatens any of that, is the government.

Hussein is a socialist... and incontrovertibly so. He is the enemy of freedom... Socialism is tyranny... That's it... Nothing more to it. Shut it down... crush it... or suffer the catastrophic consequences common to it.

HUSSEIN IS A MARXIST
HUSSEIN IS A SOCIALIST
HUSSEIN IS A MARXIST
HUSSEIN IS A SOCIALIST

Blabbidy blah blah blah​

...

Get some new material, clown.