If Obama is Socialist

[Screaming Eagle]

Obama isn't a socialist.

You're joking right? If he isn't a socialist, why has he appointed so many self-avowed socialists to cabinet and czar positions? He said we should judge him by the birds of his feather that he surrounds himself with. Well, that's what I'm doing.

Not to mention the Democratic Party is mostly Socialist these days anyway, the Blue Dogs are still a little towards the middle. Even Bernie Sanders said there was no point in him running as a Socialist anymore because the Democrats had finally come all the way.

 

[Shorebreak]

Obama isn't a socialist.

You're joking right? If he isn't a socialist, why has he appointed so many self-avowed socialists to cabinet and czar positions? He said we should judge him by the birds of his feather that he surrounds himself with. Well, that's what I'm doing.

Not to mention the Democratic Party is mostly Socialist these days anyway, the Blue Dogs are still a little towards the middle. Even Bernie Sanders said there was no point in him running as a Socialist anymore because the Democrats had finally come all the way.

It's corporatism, not socialism. Socialism is robbing the rich and giving to the poor. This is robbing the middle class to give to the poor - in order to profit the rich.

If you only consider what you see on the front end, or from the exterior, then I will agree that it appears to be socialism. But you're not considering the fact that every dollar that is spread out to the poor is initiated via a loan - not from existing monies in our treasury.

Therefore, if I were a bank and I could get my people appointed to government - and then get myself merged with government - I will profit every time that we expand any policy. And I want socialists in charge of domestic policies so that I earn more profit.

So... the system uses socialists but the real foundation is corporatist in nature, not socialist.

If you're having a hard time accepting this, consider how many times you've probably been bothered by how many people can get welfare. After all, if it were better regulated it would save us a fortune in tax dollars, right? Reality is that welfare is a for-profit operation, and always has been. All welfare funding comes from loans that are paid back at interest. If there are more recipients, the folks who issue the loans get a higher return.

So for anyone who has ever considered our welfare system to be socialist, it is not. That is the external appearance. In reality, welfare in the US is a wedge. It's a tool used to take tax dollars from 100's of millions of Americans in order to place the interest into the accounts of private banks. Not socialism - that's the disguise. In reality, it's corporatism.

So - if you have a trusted media source in mainstream media who never talks about this, you might consider the possibility that someone isn't telling you the whole story.

 

[Maple]

then why is the stock market doing better under him than it did under Bush?

Doing better than it did under Bush???? You had better check the charts, the market crashed after 9-11, Bush passed across the board tax cuts, which got everyone back to work, keep in mind that he too inherited a recession from Clinton, the market came back up, I was actually doing very well, into profit, then the housing crisis, now I am still down considerably and it will be years in this economy before it gets back up to where I actually make a little. It appears you need to go back in history and check those charts again. We are nowhere close to a recovery in the markets, they are still, way, way down compared to where they were. The latest crash has prevented many people of retirement age from retiring.

" I'm in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters." Frank Lloyd Wright

 

[SwingVoter]

then why is the stock market doing better under him than it did under Bush?

I had no idea 3 year olds could vote and type.

are you that unsure of your opinions that you have to resort to stupid comments like that?

with the lack of substance in your response, pretty clear I stumped you

 

[SwingVoter]

then why is the stock market doing better under him than it did under Bush?

Because he hasn't passed any part of his economy-destroying agenda.

Cap-and-Trade? Nope.
Nationalized Healthcare? Nope.
Union Power/Card Check? Nope.
Restructuring Wallstreet? Nope.
Protectionism? Working on it...
Inflation? Working on it...

Each one of these policies has the potential to serious hurt the economy, but if they are all passed at once, it'll cripple the economy, plunging us into a decade-long great recession. Yet, this is what Obama promises to do...

Hit the nail on the head. Obama is so naive and off base, his ideas have no chance of getting through Congress. As a result, nothing happens in Washington, and more happens in the private sector. Gov't gridlock helped produce peace & prosperity in the 90s. Problem with Bush and GOP Congress was a very activist, big spending gov't that crushed the private sector - no net job growth in private industry for 8 years.

Irony is GOPers defending Bush are defending big government spending, social programs like No Child, trillion $ socialized medicine bill with medicare drug, etc. So by defending Bush they're advocating for things they say they're against.

 

[SwingVoter]

then why is the stock market doing better under him than it did under Bush?

You had better check the charts

Under Bush S&P 500 went from 1350 to 830, over 30% drop over 8 years. Before the crash it peaked at 1550 in 2007, just 7% over where it was in Jan 2001. At a compound growth rate of around 1%, you would have gotten better returns from a CD than investing in the stock market under Bush BEFORE the 08 crash.

Under Clinton S&P went from 436 to 1350, or about a 200% total return. Not to mention that we had 20 million more PRIVATE sector jobs created under Slick Willy than we did with W.

I'm with any GOPer who says we should have limited gov't, private sector job growth, but I think the party is confusing intentions and results.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

then why is the stock market doing better under him than it did under Bush?

ROFLMNAO...

Man, if ignorance were stored energy, the ideological left would represent more energy than the sum of all suns in the known universe.

Bush came to office almost exactly one year from the highest points in the history of the equity markets. Which you may or may not know indicated the bursting of the tech bubble, created throughout the mid-late 90s by the mythical Y2K... where it hit something like 11700...

Bush took office during a period of declining equity values... with the markets having fallen a 1000-ish points from that high... somewhere around 10500... the market continued the correction and was down nearly, but not quite another 1000 pts the day before 9-11 and fell like a stone over the next week or two, where it bottomed out another 1200 or so points in late September of 2001, to 8200 or there about.

Bush passed his budget, lowered taxes and regulatory liabilities and by january of 2002 the market had recovered to over 10000...

Now just to warn you off of getting too excited... the market was back down to 72 or 7300 by the following October... and back up to the 10300 or 10400 by 2004.

So, if you're arguing that a market rising from 7-10k is hot-shit performance and the arbiter of prosperity born from executive performance... well we have to note that Bush did it twice in just his first term and it's unlikely that Hussein will see a second term...

Now that's not how I would go... but that seemed to be what you were heading towards...

So are ya sure that ya want to take a stand in October, on the performance of the equity markets as an indicator of executive performance? To be quite frank, most people who are familiar with the markets and socialism, tend to shy away from such claims, at such times... as October has not been all that kind to such assumptions.

 

[rightwinger]

Dow Jones when Bush entered office 10750
Dow Jones when Bush left office 8150

If you invested $10,000 when Bush entered office you would have had $7580 when he left eight years later

If you invested $10,000 when Obama entered office, you would have $12,280 today after eight months

Damn SOCIALISTS!

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Obama isn't a socialist. What he's done is to further combine business and government - as opposed to taking over businesses.

Elutherian pointed out that what's happening is that all profits remain private, but all losses are covered by us via our taxes.

What you're describing is fascism... which is little more than socialism lite... a transition to socialism..

The argument of such advocacies is that the relevant problems of any given period are a function of the private aspects... the solutions are always more and more control by the government... and by default that reuires less and less private control; all of which correlates to greater taxation and regulatory liabilities being heaped on to business; meaning fewer profits remaining with the private 'ownership'...

This isn't a complex issue... to the contrary, it is decidedly simple.

Hussein's entire life from his parent's ideology, to his formative college years; his self proclaimed mentors; his associations; his working career have ALL focused upon and revolved directly around socialism and the ethereal notions of social justice...

And that depicts NOTHING BUT Socialism... now you may be ignorant of what Socialism is... ya may want to believe that Socialism is some abstract, or that for socialism to exist it must appear in an instant, through some miraculous manifestation or other form of revolutionary transformation.

Sadly, your ignorance of such is simply absurd... as Socialism is merely the absurd notion that fairness equates to equality and need is that which government serves to fill... OKA: Social Justice... and it is comprised of the absurdities that come in the form of ideas... Ideas, meaning an ideology... which in the case of socialism is the Leftist ideology.

I understand that those who are often educated beyond their cognitive means, like to dance within the pretense that Socialism is a multifaceted jewel of diverse ideologies... each unique unto itself.

But the simple truth is that Socialism is Socialism... Left-think is left-think... there's nothing unique about any of its numerous facets; except that those facets represent various individual interests which are vying to secure power... FOR THEMSELVES.

 

[eagleseven]

Further, measured objectively (in un-inflated currency), the stock market is far worse today than it was in 2001. Below is the Dow Jones Industrial average, priced in gold, not US$.

Does that look like an improvement to you? The MSM are dupes...

 

[MaggieMae]

Thanks to bern80, for having some sense while some of you liberals run like headless chickens over the brink into the abysmal chasm that is your own idiocy.

Even when the economy and the stock market do recover it most likely won't be because of what the president or congress does.

No, but it shows confidence by investors. Turning around the economy has to start there.

 

[Screaming Eagle]

Further, measured objectively (in un-inflated currency), the stock market is far worse today than it was in 2001. Below is the Dow Jones Industrial average, priced in gold, not US$.

Does that look like an improvement to you? The MSM are dupes...

That might actually mean something if gold was some sort of universal constant.

 

[Ame®icano]

The fat lady ain't sung yet, and the employment figures are still negative. Just a few markers are beginning to move up, but that is much better than the dive done last winter. We seem to be backing away from the Second Great Republican Depression.

Yes, there are few markers... like this one.

Despite concerted government-led and lender-supported efforts to prevent foreclosures, the number of filings hit a record high in the third quarter, according to a report issued Thursday.

"They were the worst three months of all time," said Rick Sharga, spokesman for RealtyTrac, an online marketer of foreclosed homes.

During that time, 937,840 homes received a foreclosure letter -- whether a default notice, auction notice or bank repossession, the RealtyTrac report said. That means one in every 136 U.S. homes were in foreclosure, which is a 5% increase from the second quarter and a 23% jump over the third quarter of 2008.

Foreclosures: 'Worst three months of all time' - CNN Money.

 

[MaggieMae]

Obama isn't a socialist.

You're joking right? If he isn't a socialist, why has he appointed so many self-avowed socialists to cabinet and czar positions? He said we should judge him by the birds of his feather that he surrounds himself with. Well, that's what I'm doing.

Not to mention the Democratic Party is mostly Socialist these days anyway, the Blue Dogs are still a little towards the middle. Even Bernie Sanders said there was no point in him running as a Socialist anymore because the Democrats had finally come all the way.

Yaw'll don't have a clue what a true "Socialist" is. Here, I'll help you out. Scroll down to the Q&A part for all your answers.

Top U.S. Socialist Says Barack Obama is Not One of Them -- Politics Daily

The socialists won't claim Obama as their own. They won't even call him a socialist.

Frank Llewellyn, the National Director of the Democratic Socialists of America, the country's largest socialist organization, said Obama is most definitely not one of them. "He's not any kind of socialist at all," Llewellyn told me this week. He called the president "a market guy," which is hardly a compliment coming from a man with serious reservations about market capitalism.

 

[MaggieMae]

The fat lady ain't sung yet, and the employment figures are still negative. Just a few markers are beginning to move up, but that is much better than the dive done last winter. We seem to be backing away from the Second Great Republican Depression.

Yes, there are few markers... like this one.

Despite concerted government-led and lender-supported efforts to prevent foreclosures, the number of filings hit a record high in the third quarter, according to a report issued Thursday.

"They were the worst three months of all time," said Rick Sharga, spokesman for RealtyTrac, an online marketer of foreclosed homes.

During that time, 937,840 homes received a foreclosure letter -- whether a default notice, auction notice or bank repossession, the RealtyTrac report said. That means one in every 136 U.S. homes were in foreclosure, which is a 5% increase from the second quarter and a 23% jump over the third quarter of 2008.

Foreclosures: 'Worst three months of all time' - CNN Money.

And what else is Obama supposed to do about foreclosures? Funny that, once again, after I read through a ton of criticism, not a damned one of you has any solutions of your own.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Thanks to bern80, for having some sense while some of you liberals run like headless chickens over the brink into the abysmal chasm that is your own idiocy.

Even when the economy and the stock market do recover it most likely won't be because of what the president or congress does.

Equity markets are searching to profit on the time value, aspect of such investments... They're not ideological... and they will exists and prosper until the ideology which governs them, punishes the profits that such investments produce...


Falling or crashing markets only produce stocks which are worth less tomorrow than they were selling for yesterday... the trend of low markets is to rise... thus the crashing or falling of a market will not deter buying; to the contrary, such corrections serve as opportunities.

What will cause markets to fail, is the absence of buyers, and what causes the absense of buyers is where the powers the be punish those who buy, through the confiscating of their profits, through taxation and regulatory liabilities.

All we have seen from the current batch of Marxists in federal government is their giving trillions of tax dollars to those who can facilitate their continuing in power...

They don't have any money... it's not like there is a fund, or a bank account which the US government has, with trillions of dollars in it. So they just printed more money... and that can only mean that with more money in the system, that the money is in the system before the money supply was increased is worth less. Beyond that, to print it, they have to borrow it... from themselves.

Now if they leave that coin in the supply for sufficient time, it will cause inflation, after that stagflation... and eventually, if they keep printing... HYPERINFLATION...

So to prevent that, they need to reduce the money supply... and to do that they have to have sufficient economic performance, to raise taxes, so they can pay themselves back...

The bottom line is that these idiots have not even BEGUN to screw things up...

In the near future, they'll start to raise taxes... their revenues will continue fall, so they'll have to go farther into socialism... all of their failures will be goated to the private markets. The evidence of that, is the way they're attacked the Auto-biz... which was suffering from the effects of Leftist regulations... The banks and mortage companies were attacked, after they were forced to do exactly what they did by the advocates of Social Justice... and the insurance companies... they're being attacked because they were forced to do what the left is now running to fix... which will force the insurance companies to DO WORSE THINGS... FOR WHICH THE LEFT WILL RUN TO ATTACK THEM, WHEN THAT FAILS... Attacks which will proclaim that Insurance companies... OKA: PRIVATE OWNERSHIP 'just can't be trusted to do the job...'


They're LIARS and they prey on FOOLS...

 

[Shorebreak]

Obama isn't a socialist. What he's done is to further combine business and government - as opposed to taking over businesses.

Elutherian pointed out that what's happening is that all profits remain private, but all losses are covered by us via our taxes.

What you're describing is fascism... which is little more than socialism lite... a transition to socialism..

The argument of such advocacies is that the relevant problems of any given period are a function of the private aspects... the solutions are always more and more control by the government... and by default that reuires less and less private control; all of which correlates to greater taxation and regulatory liabilities being heaped on to business; meaning fewer profits remaining with the private 'ownership'...

This isn't a complex issue... to the contrary, it is decidedly simple.

Hussein's entire life from his parent's ideology, to his formative college years; his self proclaimed mentors; his associations; his working career have ALL focused upon and revolved directly around socialism and the ethereal notions of social justice...

And that depicts NOTHING BUT Socialism... now you may be ignorant of what Socialism is... ya may want to believe that Socialism is some abstract, or that for socialism to exist it must appear in an instant, through some miraculous manifestation or other form of revolutionary transformation.

Sadly, your ignorance of such is simply absurd... as Socialism is merely the absurd notion that fairness equates to equality and need is that which government serves to fill... OKA: Social Justice... and it is comprised of the absurdities that come in the form of ideas... Ideas, meaning an ideology... which in the case of socialism is the Leftist ideology.

I understand that those who are often educated beyond their cognitive means, like to dance within the pretense that Socialism is a multifaceted jewel of diverse ideologies... each unique unto itself.

But the simple truth is that Socialism is Socialism... Left-think is left-think... there's nothing unique about any of its numerous facets; except that those facets represent various individual interests which are vying to secure power... FOR THEMSELVES.

You missed my point. I didn't say that Obama isn't practicing or implementing socailist policies. I said he's not a socialist. He's a corporatist.

In the current context, corporatism uses a brand of socialism (not real socialism as a socialist purist would define it) as it's wedge to maintain and grow it's power.

If you're confused about whether or not I'm promoting or defending any of it, here's you're clarification - my personal ideology sounds something like this:

"Keep your hands off my stack, Jack. If you're with the federal government and the US Constitution didn't delegate authority to do what you do - leave your job and find lawful, honest work."

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Thanks to bern80, for having some sense while some of you liberals run like headless chickens over the brink into the abysmal chasm that is your own idiocy.

Even when the economy and the stock market do recover it most likely won't be because of what the president or congress does.

No, but it shows confidence by investors. Turning around the economy has to start there.

No... it shows an opportunity to buy investments which were selling for 50% off.

There's no confidence in this economy... there's a nervous optimism that the Marxists will not do anything too stupid... and that's about it; it's a denial, a delusion; but sometimes that's all one has to get 'em through bad times... and sometimes, that's enough.

But given that they haven't even begun to start the other half of the Leftist equation... it won't be..., unless CONSERVATIVES are elected to major majorities in the Legislature...

But if... Ried get's sacked and Pelosi loses her Majority... Just stand buy, the markets will fly through the roof.

 

[Ame®icano]

The fat lady ain't sung yet, and the employment figures are still negative. Just a few markers are beginning to move up, but that is much better than the dive done last winter. We seem to be backing away from the Second Great Republican Depression.

Yes, there are few markers... like this one.

Despite concerted government-led and lender-supported efforts to prevent foreclosures, the number of filings hit a record high in the third quarter, according to a report issued Thursday.

"They were the worst three months of all time," said Rick Sharga, spokesman for RealtyTrac, an online marketer of foreclosed homes.

During that time, 937,840 homes received a foreclosure letter -- whether a default notice, auction notice or bank repossession, the RealtyTrac report said. That means one in every 136 U.S. homes were in foreclosure, which is a 5% increase from the second quarter and a 23% jump over the third quarter of 2008.

Foreclosures: 'Worst three months of all time' - CNN Money.

And what else is Obama supposed to do about foreclosures? Funny that, once again, after I read through a ton of criticism, not a damned one of you has any solutions of your own.

It's not question what he suppose to do, but what he has done.

Have you heard of Loan Modification Bill? The money given to lenders to help people stay in their homes, still sits in the lenders bank accounts. Meanwhile, people are getting tossed out of their homes and the lenders aren't modifying squat. But think of it this way, the lenders can use the money we gave them to modify loans and instead use it to maintain the foreclosed houses as the prices begin to rise and make money on the deal.

The same lenders and investment bankers have to have enough money to donate to Chris Dodd and Barney Frank's campaigns and still make enough for bonuses. What do you think, who crafted that bill?

H.R.1106

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Obama isn't a socialist. What he's done is to further combine business and government - as opposed to taking over businesses.

Elutherian pointed out that what's happening is that all profits remain private, but all losses are covered by us via our taxes.

What you're describing is fascism... which is little more than socialism lite... a transition to socialism..

The argument of such advocacies is that the relevant problems of any given period are a function of the private aspects... the solutions are always more and more control by the government... and by default that reuires less and less private control; all of which correlates to greater taxation and regulatory liabilities being heaped on to business; meaning fewer profits remaining with the private 'ownership'...

This isn't a complex issue... to the contrary, it is decidedly simple.

Hussein's entire life from his parent's ideology, to his formative college years; his self proclaimed mentors; his associations; his working career have ALL focused upon and revolved directly around socialism and the ethereal notions of social justice...

And that depicts NOTHING BUT Socialism... now you may be ignorant of what Socialism is... ya may want to believe that Socialism is some abstract, or that for socialism to exist it must appear in an instant, through some miraculous manifestation or other form of revolutionary transformation.

Sadly, your ignorance of such is simply absurd... as Socialism is merely the absurd notion that fairness equates to equality and need is that which government serves to fill... OKA: Social Justice... and it is comprised of the absurdities that come in the form of ideas... Ideas, meaning an ideology... which in the case of socialism is the Leftist ideology.

I understand that those who are often educated beyond their cognitive means, like to dance within the pretense that Socialism is a multifaceted jewel of diverse ideologies... each unique unto itself.

But the simple truth is that Socialism is Socialism... Left-think is left-think... there's nothing unique about any of its numerous facets; except that those facets represent various individual interests which are vying to secure power... FOR THEMSELVES.

You missed my point. I didn't say that Obama isn't practicing or implementing socailist policies. I said he's not a socialist. He's a corporatist.

No... I didn't miss it... I flat out corrected you. Hussein is a Marxist, who is in the process of 'fundamentally changing America, from a Capitalist free market, based upon individual liberty, to a socialist trainwreck.

He could not just declare the US a communist State... as had he done so, his ass would be sitting in Venezuala right now, in exile... if not in Federal Prison.

He's a Marxist, not an imbecile... granted the two are fairly close in some aspects... but there are distinctions.

In the current context, corporatism uses a brand of socialism (not real socialism as a socialist purist would define it) as it's wedge to maintain and grow it's power.

Yeah and that brand is called various things... Corporatism, is fascism, which is progressivism... and it's all socialism.

If you're confused about whether or not I'm promoting or defending any of it, here's you're clarification - my personal ideology sounds something like this:

"Keep your hands off my stack, Jack. If you're with the federal government and the US Constitution didn't delegate authority to do what you do - leave your job and find lawful, honest work."

Wonderful... Learn the language and recognize that there is nothing new under the sun... don't buy into the bullshit of corporatism... as that term is designed to undermine your entire position as you've defined your ideology.

As the owner of several corporations, I do not concede anything to a socialist, for any reason. Those companies serve my interests and my interests only... to do that, I serve the interests of my clients... and the ONLY thing which threatens any of that, is the government.

Hussein is a socialist... and incontrovertibly so. He is the enemy of freedom... Socialism is tyranny... That's it... Nothing more to it. Shut it down... crush it... or suffer the catastrophic consequences common to it.