If my doctor says $1 of every $4 is spent on "defensive medicine"..

[healthmyths]

I would kind of have to believe him!

I mean he and 90% of other physicians must have some basis for this survey:

According to a 2010 survey of physicians by Gallup for Alpharetta-based Jackson Healthcare, one of every four dollars spent in health care goes to defensive medicine.
Nine out of 10 U.S. physicians (92 percent) reported practicing defensive medicine, according to a new online survey released today by Jackson Healthcare, a healthcare management company.
Defensive medicine refers to tests, hospitalizations, prescriptions and surgical procedures physicians consider medically unnecessary, but order in an attempt to avoid lawsuits.
According to Gallup’s study, physicians estimate that one in four dollars (26 percent) spent on health care in America pays for unnecessary tests and treatments.
“The consequences of this waste affect all of us,” said Jackson. “Costs go up and quality and access go down when our physicians are under the constant personal threat of litigation.”
“Our online survey found that they feel trapped between the Hippocratic Oath and their personal desire to stay out of court and in business.”

Doctors Practice Medicine in Fear, New Study Finds

and why would emergency room physicians lie???

1) More than half (53 percent) of emergency physicians reported that fear of lawsuits is the main reason for ordering the number of tests they do.

Emergency Visits Are Increasing, New Poll Finds; Many Patients Referred by Primary Care Doctors

So when Obamacare defenders and defenders of those poor defenseless millionaire ambulance chasers say $600 billion a year is not accurate???

Either they are "experts"??? "Delusional" or just plain ignorant and definitely hypocritically because they stupidly blame those evil insurance companies trying to make a PROFIT off a business that sends 80% or more of revenue on CLAIM payments! It doesn't make any sense to blame the company that processes the payments when the cause is simple fear of lawsuits being filed by millionaire lawyers!

Yet you same people critical of health insurance companies totally ignore reality.. i.e. $600 billion a year in defensive medicine is a fact!

 

[FurthurBB]

I would kind of have to believe him!

I mean he and 90% of other physicians must have some basis for this survey:

According to a 2010 survey of physicians by Gallup for Alpharetta-based Jackson Healthcare, one of every four dollars spent in health care goes to defensive medicine.
Nine out of 10 U.S. physicians (92 percent) reported practicing defensive medicine, according to a new online survey released today by Jackson Healthcare, a healthcare management company.
Defensive medicine refers to tests, hospitalizations, prescriptions and surgical procedures physicians consider medically unnecessary, but order in an attempt to avoid lawsuits.
According to Gallup’s study, physicians estimate that one in four dollars (26 percent) spent on health care in America pays for unnecessary tests and treatments.
“The consequences of this waste affect all of us,” said Jackson. “Costs go up and quality and access go down when our physicians are under the constant personal threat of litigation.”
“Our online survey found that they feel trapped between the Hippocratic Oath and their personal desire to stay out of court and in business.”

Doctors Practice Medicine in Fear, New Study Finds

and why would emergency room physicians lie???

1) More than half (53 percent) of emergency physicians reported that fear of lawsuits is the main reason for ordering the number of tests they do.

Emergency Visits Are Increasing, New Poll Finds; Many Patients Referred by Primary Care Doctors

So when Obamacare defenders and defenders of those poor defenseless millionaire ambulance chasers say $600 billion a year is not accurate???

Either they are "experts"??? "Delusional" or just plain ignorant and definitely hypocritically because they stupidly blame those evil insurance companies trying to make a PROFIT off a business that sends 80% or more of revenue on CLAIM payments! It doesn't make any sense to blame the company that processes the payments when the cause is simple fear of lawsuits being filed by millionaire lawyers!

Yet you same people critical of health insurance companies totally ignore reality.. i.e. $600 billion a year in defensive medicine is a fact!

I do not believe that it is always in fear that doctors order unnecessary tests and procedures. I also know that part of the fear on the doctors side in emergency rooms is that they have been working for over 24 hours and are afraid they will make a mistake. I also know a lot of it is from lawsuits, but am not willing to give up my rights over it. So, as simple as you would like to make this seem, it is actually a lot more complex.

 

[LoneLaugher]

What is President Obama's position on tort reform?

 

[Greenbeard]

What is President Obama's position on tort reform?

He favors state-level reform, with federal support as necessary.

Obama Starts Drive for Medical Malpractice Reforms

 

[NYcarbineer]

Are the hospitals/physicians making money or losing money on all the so-called unnecessary tests/procedures being referenced here?

 

[LoneLaugher]

What is President Obama's position on tort reform?

He favors state-level reform, with federal support as necessary.

Obama Starts Drive for Medical Malpractice Reforms

Thanks. Information is key.

 

[Mad Scientist]

What is President Obama's position on tort reform?

He favors state-level reform, with federal support as necessary.

Obama Starts Drive for Medical Malpractice Reforms

How is it "State Level Reform" when it's being written by the Obama Justice Dept.?
From your link:

Obama's budget calls for $250 million in Justice Department grants to help states rewrite their malpractice laws in line with recommendations that his bipartisan debt reduction commission issued last year.

Health Courts? Run by whom?

Topping the list of ideas in an Obama administration summary of the proposal are health courts. Specially trained judges — not juries — would decide malpractice cases, awarding compensation from a set schedule. Plaintiffs' lawyers say that would undermine the constitutional right to trial by jury. But proponents say it would bring predictability, resulting in lower malpractice insurance rates for doctors.

Yeah, it would bring corruption too as the I'll bet the judges would be Presidential or Political appointments. Oh Lawd!
Plus this article claims "defensive medicine" is less costly than advertised:

The cost of defensive medicine is difficult to estimate, but conservative estimates start at around $50 billion a year. Obama's debt commission estimated its recommendations could save government programs $17 billion through 2020, calling for an aggressive effort to rewrite malpractice laws. Obama's budget, however, DOES NOT CLAIM ANY savings from the new proposal.

So let's re-write the laws and set up Health Courts so the we can save uh, no money?

 

[Greenbeard]

How is it "State Level Reform" when it's being written by the Obama Justice Dept.?

States retain control of their own tort law, instead of having it federalized as some advocate. However, they can get federal money for things like development, implementation, and evaluation of state-level tort reforms if they meet certain standards.

Health Courts?

A bipartisan idea. Paul Ryan's health reform bill contained grants to states to set up health courts as well.

 

[auditor0007]

I would kind of have to believe him!

I mean he and 90% of other physicians must have some basis for this survey:

According to a 2010 survey of physicians by Gallup for Alpharetta-based Jackson Healthcare, one of every four dollars spent in health care goes to defensive medicine.
Nine out of 10 U.S. physicians (92 percent) reported practicing defensive medicine, according to a new online survey released today by Jackson Healthcare, a healthcare management company.
Defensive medicine refers to tests, hospitalizations, prescriptions and surgical procedures physicians consider medically unnecessary, but order in an attempt to avoid lawsuits.
According to Gallup’s study, physicians estimate that one in four dollars (26 percent) spent on health care in America pays for unnecessary tests and treatments.
“The consequences of this waste affect all of us,” said Jackson. “Costs go up and quality and access go down when our physicians are under the constant personal threat of litigation.”
“Our online survey found that they feel trapped between the Hippocratic Oath and their personal desire to stay out of court and in business.”

Doctors Practice Medicine in Fear, New Study Finds

and why would emergency room physicians lie???

1) More than half (53 percent) of emergency physicians reported that fear of lawsuits is the main reason for ordering the number of tests they do.

Emergency Visits Are Increasing, New Poll Finds; Many Patients Referred by Primary Care Doctors

So when Obamacare defenders and defenders of those poor defenseless millionaire ambulance chasers say $600 billion a year is not accurate???

Either they are "experts"??? "Delusional" or just plain ignorant and definitely hypocritically because they stupidly blame those evil insurance companies trying to make a PROFIT off a business that sends 80% or more of revenue on CLAIM payments! It doesn't make any sense to blame the company that processes the payments when the cause is simple fear of lawsuits being filed by millionaire lawyers!

Yet you same people critical of health insurance companies totally ignore reality.. i.e. $600 billion a year in defensive medicine is a fact!

There are two sides to what is called defensive medicine. One is that extra tests are run as a form of protection to avoid any potential lawsuits. The other though, is that many times, having a few extra tests to determine the real cause of an illness or medical issue is necessary. Everyone thinks that because someone has a medical license to practice medicine that means they magically know everything and should be able to make a correct diagnosis just by taking your temperature, and looking in your mouth and ears. It isn't always that simple.

I have Hemochromatosis. I know more about it then any of my doctors. Luckily, my doctors are not overly arrogant and they actually allow me to determine what tests I need and when I should have them. We work together; I listen to them and they listen to me. It helps that I am very well informed, and they know this, so it is much easier for them to work with me. This would not be possible if I didn't know what I'm talking about. A lot of people out there don't know enough about their conditions to know what a doctor should be doing or not doing. Being an informed patient is extremely important. However, there is also such a thing as an over-informed patient. These are the ones who think that they know everything and their doctor knows nothing. This can be a problem also. The best situation is one where the patient is informed and is willing to listen and work with their doctor and where the doctor is willing to work with the patient.

 

[healthmyths]

I would kind of have to believe him!

I mean he and 90% of other physicians must have some basis for this survey:

According to a 2010 survey of physicians by Gallup for Alpharetta-based Jackson Healthcare, one of every four dollars spent in health care goes to defensive medicine.
Nine out of 10 U.S. physicians (92 percent) reported practicing defensive medicine, according to a new online survey released today by Jackson Healthcare, a healthcare management company.
Defensive medicine refers to tests, hospitalizations, prescriptions and surgical procedures physicians consider medically unnecessary, but order in an attempt to avoid lawsuits.
According to Gallup’s study, physicians estimate that one in four dollars (26 percent) spent on health care in America pays for unnecessary tests and treatments.
“The consequences of this waste affect all of us,” said Jackson. “Costs go up and quality and access go down when our physicians are under the constant personal threat of litigation.”
“Our online survey found that they feel trapped between the Hippocratic Oath and their personal desire to stay out of court and in business.”

Doctors Practice Medicine in Fear, New Study Finds

and why would emergency room physicians lie???

1) More than half (53 percent) of emergency physicians reported that fear of lawsuits is the main reason for ordering the number of tests they do.

Emergency Visits Are Increasing, New Poll Finds; Many Patients Referred by Primary Care Doctors

So when Obamacare defenders and defenders of those poor defenseless millionaire ambulance chasers say $600 billion a year is not accurate???

Either they are "experts"??? "Delusional" or just plain ignorant and definitely hypocritically because they stupidly blame those evil insurance companies trying to make a PROFIT off a business that sends 80% or more of revenue on CLAIM payments! It doesn't make any sense to blame the company that processes the payments when the cause is simple fear of lawsuits being filed by millionaire lawyers!

Yet you same people critical of health insurance companies totally ignore reality.. i.e. $600 billion a year in defensive medicine is a fact!

I do not believe that it is always in fear that doctors order unnecessary tests and procedures. I also know that part of the fear on the doctors side in emergency rooms is that they have been working for over 24 hours and are afraid they will make a mistake. I also know a lot of it is from lawsuits, but am not willing to give up my rights over it. So, as simple as you would like to make this seem, it is actually a lot more complex.

"is always in fear "
Did I SAY THAT?? "ALWAYS"????
It doesn't have to be "ALWAYS" to be a BIG $600 billion waste!
Take away $100 billion of the $600 billion and you realize that is a BIG deal that happens 1 out of 4 times... NOT ALWAYS!!
Once again hyperbole blown apart by FACTS!!!

AND who said you give up a right???
But you tell me why should a jury award a woman who spilled the entire cup of coffee on her lap. ... In addition, they awarded her $2.7 million in punitive damages?
How is that for HYPERBOLIC anecdotal illustration?
See that's why I am trying to get people like you to understand Obamacare DIDN"T address the biggest cost drivers.. because you and others seem to approve the millionaire lawyers that paid Obama/Congress $300 million in 2008 NOT to address TORT REFORM!!!

 

[auditor0007]

I would kind of have to believe him!

I mean he and 90% of other physicians must have some basis for this survey:

According to a 2010 survey of physicians by Gallup for Alpharetta-based Jackson Healthcare, one of every four dollars spent in health care goes to defensive medicine.
Nine out of 10 U.S. physicians (92 percent) reported practicing defensive medicine, according to a new online survey released today by Jackson Healthcare, a healthcare management company.
Defensive medicine refers to tests, hospitalizations, prescriptions and surgical procedures physicians consider medically unnecessary, but order in an attempt to avoid lawsuits.
According to Gallup’s study, physicians estimate that one in four dollars (26 percent) spent on health care in America pays for unnecessary tests and treatments.
“The consequences of this waste affect all of us,” said Jackson. “Costs go up and quality and access go down when our physicians are under the constant personal threat of litigation.”
“Our online survey found that they feel trapped between the Hippocratic Oath and their personal desire to stay out of court and in business.”

Doctors Practice Medicine in Fear, New Study Finds

and why would emergency room physicians lie???

1) More than half (53 percent) of emergency physicians reported that fear of lawsuits is the main reason for ordering the number of tests they do.

Emergency Visits Are Increasing, New Poll Finds; Many Patients Referred by Primary Care Doctors

So when Obamacare defenders and defenders of those poor defenseless millionaire ambulance chasers say $600 billion a year is not accurate???

Either they are "experts"??? "Delusional" or just plain ignorant and definitely hypocritically because they stupidly blame those evil insurance companies trying to make a PROFIT off a business that sends 80% or more of revenue on CLAIM payments! It doesn't make any sense to blame the company that processes the payments when the cause is simple fear of lawsuits being filed by millionaire lawyers!

Yet you same people critical of health insurance companies totally ignore reality.. i.e. $600 billion a year in defensive medicine is a fact!

I do not believe that it is always in fear that doctors order unnecessary tests and procedures. I also know that part of the fear on the doctors side in emergency rooms is that they have been working for over 24 hours and are afraid they will make a mistake. I also know a lot of it is from lawsuits, but am not willing to give up my rights over it. So, as simple as you would like to make this seem, it is actually a lot more complex.

Doctors don't know everything. They need test results to confirm a diagnosis in many cases. Sometimes the tests do the opposite, they confirm that the doctor's diagnosis is wrong. This happens more often than most would think, and the reason is that many diseases or illnesses will show themselves with very similar symptoms. Unless it's a life or death emergency requiring an immediate call, I want my doctors to determine what is wrong before beginning treatment. I do not want them guessing, because that is what leads to bad decisions that lead to lawsuits.

 

[healthmyths]

What is President Obama's position on tort reform?

He favors state-level reform, with federal support as necessary.

Obama Starts Drive for Medical Malpractice Reforms

OBAMA'S WORDS NOT MINE!!!

Obama said in 2003:
“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.”
Barack Obama on single payer in 2003 | Physicians for a National Health Program

 

[alan1]

There are two sides to what is called defensive medicine. One is that extra tests are run as a form of protection to avoid any potential lawsuits. The other though, is that many times, having a few extra tests to determine the real cause of an illness or medical issue is necessary. Everyone thinks that because someone has a medical license to practice medicine that means they magically know everything and should be able to make a correct diagnosis just by taking your temperature, and looking in your mouth and ears. It isn't always that simple.

I have Hemochromatosis. I know more about it then any of my doctors. Luckily, my doctors are not overly arrogant and they actually allow me to determine what tests I need and when I should have them. We work together; I listen to them and they listen to me. It helps that I am very well informed, and they know this, so it is much easier for them to work with me. This would not be possible if I didn't know what I'm talking about. A lot of people out there don't know enough about their conditions to know what a doctor should be doing or not doing. Being an informed patient is extremely important. However, there is also such a thing as an over-informed patient. These are the ones who think that they know everything and their doctor knows nothing. This can be a problem also. The best situation is one where the patient is informed and is willing to listen and work with their doctor and where the doctor is willing to work with the patient.

You bring up some good points. Doctors don't know all the answers. Much of what they do is "educated guessing".
The way I see it, my doctor works for me, he/she is my employee, one that I hired because of their expertise, but I am still going to challenge their suggested treatment and ask for alternatives at times.

 

[Greenbeard]

What is President Obama's position on tort reform?

He favors state-level reform, with federal support as necessary.

Obama Starts Drive for Medical Malpractice Reforms

OBAMA'S WORDS NOT MINE!!!

Obama said in 2003:
“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.”
Barack Obama on single payer in 2003 | Physicians for a National Health Program

And?

 

[healthmyths]

I would kind of have to believe him!

I mean he and 90% of other physicians must have some basis for this survey:

According to a 2010 survey of physicians by Gallup for Alpharetta-based Jackson Healthcare, one of every four dollars spent in health care goes to defensive medicine.
Nine out of 10 U.S. physicians (92 percent) reported practicing defensive medicine, according to a new online survey released today by Jackson Healthcare, a healthcare management company.
Defensive medicine refers to tests, hospitalizations, prescriptions and surgical procedures physicians consider medically unnecessary, but order in an attempt to avoid lawsuits.
According to Gallup’s study, physicians estimate that one in four dollars (26 percent) spent on health care in America pays for unnecessary tests and treatments.
“The consequences of this waste affect all of us,” said Jackson. “Costs go up and quality and access go down when our physicians are under the constant personal threat of litigation.”
“Our online survey found that they feel trapped between the Hippocratic Oath and their personal desire to stay out of court and in business.”

Doctors Practice Medicine in Fear, New Study Finds

and why would emergency room physicians lie???

1) More than half (53 percent) of emergency physicians reported that fear of lawsuits is the main reason for ordering the number of tests they do.

Emergency Visits Are Increasing, New Poll Finds; Many Patients Referred by Primary Care Doctors

So when Obamacare defenders and defenders of those poor defenseless millionaire ambulance chasers say $600 billion a year is not accurate???

Either they are "experts"??? "Delusional" or just plain ignorant and definitely hypocritically because they stupidly blame those evil insurance companies trying to make a PROFIT off a business that sends 80% or more of revenue on CLAIM payments! It doesn't make any sense to blame the company that processes the payments when the cause is simple fear of lawsuits being filed by millionaire lawyers!

Yet you same people critical of health insurance companies totally ignore reality.. i.e. $600 billion a year in defensive medicine is a fact!

There are two sides to what is called defensive medicine. One is that extra tests are run as a form of protection to avoid any potential lawsuits. The other though, is that many times, having a few extra tests to determine the real cause of an illness or medical issue is necessary. Everyone thinks that because someone has a medical license to practice medicine that means they magically know everything and should be able to make a correct diagnosis just by taking your temperature, and looking in your mouth and ears. It isn't always that simple.

I have Hemochromatosis. I know more about it then any of my doctors. Luckily, my doctors are not overly arrogant and they actually allow me to determine what tests I need and when I should have them. We work together; I listen to them and they listen to me. It helps that I am very well informed, and they know this, so it is much easier for them to work with me. This would not be possible if I didn't know what I'm talking about. A lot of people out there don't know enough about their conditions to know what a doctor should be doing or not doing. Being an informed patient is extremely important. However, there is also such a thing as an over-informed patient. These are the ones who think that they know everything and their doctor knows nothing. This can be a problem also. The best situation is one where the patient is informed and is willing to listen and work with their doctor and where the doctor is willing to work with the patient.

The facts though are if the experts i.e. physicians i,e, they submit the orders for the tests,etc... do 1 out of 4 orders JUST because they are don't want to be sued should be enough to justify a greater effort for tort reform... BUT
OBAMACARE ignored it because Obama/DemCongress received $300 million in donations from lawyers!

Tell me why was it so important that a 10% tax on tanning salons...
The congressional Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that the tanning tax would raise less than $50 million in the last quarter of Fiscal Year (FY) 2010 and $200 million for FY 2011.

According to the report, the IRS received tax returns that reported $17.8 million in taxes in the final quarter of FY 2010 and $36.6 million in the first half of FY 2011.

My goodness a TANNING TAX! that will generate less then half the boasted!

So if it was good enough to tax tanning salons... WHY not the $100 billion lawyers make? After all we have direct concrete proof from the experts..physicians they fear lawsuits which creates the $600 billion in defensive medicine costs! A 20% tax would generate $20 billion which would have paid a $4,000 premium per year for each of the 5 million truly uninsured!

 

[Inthemiddle]

The facts though are if the experts i.e. physicians i,e, they submit the orders for the tests,etc... do 1 out of 4 orders JUST because they are don't want to be sued should be enough to justify a greater effort for tort reform.

What part of patient consent does not make sense to you?

 

[healthmyths]

The facts though are if the experts i.e. physicians i,e, they submit the orders for the tests,etc... do 1 out of 4 orders JUST because they are don't want to be sued should be enough to justify a greater effort for tort reform.

What part of patient consent does not make sense to you?

And what part of the wasted $600 billion acknowledged by physicians as "defensive medicine" is so hard for you to comprehend?
Patient MUST accompany all physician actions.. that goes without your stupid comment!

I am simply trying to make totally ignorant evidently people like you UNDERSTAND that pure millionaire lawyers have created a very large portion of health care costs... i.e. $600 billion a year in "defensive Medicine" which I AM NOT saying REMEMBER??? 90% of physicians surveyed said it!

You on the other hand offer NOTHING of substance.. some wimpy comment that means absolutely NOTHING!

 

[Greenbeard]

Are the hospitals/physicians making money or losing money on all the so-called unnecessary tests/procedures being referenced here?

 

[LoneLaugher]

I wonder if it is satisfying to know that, at the end of each day, one must rest with the knowledge that they have done everything within their power to prevent human beings from having access to affordable, quality health care?

I get the pro life crowd.....and the small government crowd......but the anti health care crowd is just beyond comprehension.

 

[alan1]

I wonder if it is satisfying to know that, at the end of each day, one must rest with the knowledge that they have done everything within their power to prevent human beings from having access to affordable, quality health care?

I get the pro life crowd.....and the small government crowd......but the anti health care crowd is just beyond comprehension.

Who the heck is "anti health care"?
Are you just making stuff up?