If Jesus couldn't keep HIMSELF out of trouble...

[logical4u]

I read the bible. God's ordinary and negative emotions are on display.

When is the last time a person got sooooo angry, they flooded the earth?

That's right. God has more anger than anyone else. He killed off every creature on earth except for his chosen few.

Now you believe in the Lord and "HIS" power (when it is proving your point)???

 

[logical4u]

God is a concept. He can't be God, because he has ordinary and negative emotions.

Says a person that claims not to believe in the Lord, but elevates people to godlike status.

You only say this, because you don't understand what Buddha is. Buddha is not God or god like. You think you know more about Buddhism than a Buddhist does. I don't think I know more about Christianity than a Christian does. I know about it, from being a cradle Catholic. I know only my own experience, and I trust myself. You trust YOUR own experience too, and I'm sure it's different from mine. I stand in the immediacy of my own experience, and I am VERY grateful to have found Buddhism.

Buddha is the highest potential a human being can achieve. Buddha means "awake". Awake to one's Buddhanature within. In Tibetan, the word for Buddha, is Sang Gye. It means "to clear away, and to unfold".

What is "cleared away "are negative emotions, and what "enfolds", are positive qualities, like love, compassion, joy and equanimity.

No one is "elevated to god-like status" in Buddhism. That would be total arrogance. Buddha is a non-egoic state of awareness.

The ones who seem arrogant to me, are Christians, because they think their path is the ONLY one ANY human being should practice.

Contrast that, to what the Dalai Lama says. He tells Christians to stay on their path, and he supports us Buddhists, to stay on ours.

What I think is possible, is that what some people call "God", may actually be the state of meditation of being in presence, awake and aware. I'm sure we don't agree. I find common ground with some Christians who are more mystical, rather than fundamentalist.

I don't think that I know more about Buddhism than those that follow that faith. I have read a little about it. What I have read is interesting. IMHO, it is like communism: this great idea, that in reality cannot work for society. The monks and hermits use it well.
Sorry, I am not seeing those "negative emotions" cleared from you. I see a lot of anger, bitterness, arrogance in your posts. I hope you achieve that "non-egoic state of awareness" (oh, how nice) state, soon.

 

[logical4u]

Many years ago, I got a virus on my PC. I worked with it, did registry cleans, file checks, HiJackThis, all sorts of things. But in the end the only option was to reformat the drive.

I didn't do the reformat because I was angry, nor because I wanted to punish the files on the drive. I did the reformat because the system was corrupt and that was the way to remove the corruption.

I don't actually believe the story of the flood, but it doesn't show anger - not even close.

Many cultures have flood stories. If the 2004 tsunami had taken place in ancient times, it would have generated a "flood" story.

Flood Stories from Around the World

The fact these stories exists neither confirms nor denies the existence of a Supreme Being. They just exist as part of our collective history.

The bible flood story teaches how powerless humans are, and how flawed, and how powerful god is that he could wipe EVERYONE except his CHOSEN few off the planet.

I think it shows how judgmental, and violent god is.

If you are watching what is happening in the news, it is obvious how "powerless" humans are. There appears to be no where that is safe. Sunamis, earthquakes, floods, tornados, hurricanes, typhoons, volcanoes, war, disease, etc, etc, etc.

If you read the Book, you know why He cleansed the earth. If you want to did deeper, you can, but I would suggest that you have your spirit at peace before you go there. Some knowledge is painful.

 

[logical4u]

Many cultures have flood stories. If the 2004 tsunami had taken place in ancient times, it would have generated a "flood" story.

Flood Stories from Around the World

The fact these stories exists neither confirms nor denies the existence of a Supreme Being. They just exist as part of our collective history.

The bible flood story teaches how powerless humans are, and how flawed, and how powerful god is that he could wipe EVERYONE except his CHOSEN few off the planet.

I think it shows how judgmental, and violent god is.

Actually, not if you get it from the original Hebrew writings Sky.

God didn't really have a beef with anyone, it was the fact that the Sons of God had mated with the daughters of man and created Nephilim. When God saw what had happened to His original experiment (mankind), He decided to have a do-over, because the original creation had become corrupted by mating with the Sons of God. Matter of fact, that's one of the reasons they say that giants once walked the earth.

If you look at it from the point of a scientist, it was more or less a re-start of the experiment, with the viable ones being allowed to continue.

Careful, those that are unprepared, can get serious complications in their lives from going here.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Says a person that claims not to believe in the Lord, but elevates people to godlike status.

You only say this, because you don't understand what Buddha is. Buddha is not God or god like. You think you know more about Buddhism than a Buddhist does. I don't think I know more about Christianity than a Christian does. I know about it, from being a cradle Catholic. I know only my own experience, and I trust myself. You trust YOUR own experience too, and I'm sure it's different from mine. I stand in the immediacy of my own experience, and I am VERY grateful to have found Buddhism.

Buddha is the highest potential a human being can achieve. Buddha means "awake". Awake to one's Buddhanature within. In Tibetan, the word for Buddha, is Sang Gye. It means "to clear away, and to unfold".

What is "cleared away "are negative emotions, and what "enfolds", are positive qualities, like love, compassion, joy and equanimity.

No one is "elevated to god-like status" in Buddhism. That would be total arrogance. Buddha is a non-egoic state of awareness.

The ones who seem arrogant to me, are Christians, because they think their path is the ONLY one ANY human being should practice.

Contrast that, to what the Dalai Lama says. He tells Christians to stay on their path, and he supports us Buddhists, to stay on ours.

What I think is possible, is that what some people call "God", may actually be the state of meditation of being in presence, awake and aware. I'm sure we don't agree. I find common ground with some Christians who are more mystical, rather than fundamentalist.

I don't think that I know more about Buddhism than those that follow that faith. I have read a little about it. What I have read is interesting. IMHO, it is like communism: this great idea, that in reality cannot work for society. The monks and hermits use it well.
Sorry, I am not seeing those "negative emotions" cleared from you. I see a lot of anger, bitterness, arrogance in your posts. I hope you achieve that "non-egoic state of awareness" (oh, how nice) state, soon.

So........because you've "read a little about it" that makes you expert enough to compare it to communism?

Got a social studies degree to go with your "read a little about it"?

I trust you about Buddhism about as much as I trust Ted Haggard or John Hagee about telling me the truth about Christianity.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You are quickly proving yourself to be the duty expert in irrelevancy. Congratulations!

And you are proving yourself incapable of grasping even the most simple of points.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Many cultures have flood stories. If the 2004 tsunami had taken place in ancient times, it would have generated a "flood" story.

Flood Stories from Around the World

The fact these stories exists neither confirms nor denies the existence of a Supreme Being. They just exist as part of our collective history.

The bible flood story teaches how powerless humans are, and how flawed, and how powerful god is that he could wipe EVERYONE except his CHOSEN few off the planet.

I think it shows how judgmental, and violent god is.

If you are watching what is happening in the news, it is obvious how "powerless" humans are. There appears to be no where that is safe. Sunamis, earthquakes, floods, tornados, hurricanes, typhoons, volcanoes, war, disease, etc, etc, etc.

If you read the Book, you know why He cleansed the earth. If you want to did deeper, you can, but I would suggest that you have your spirit at peace before you go there. Some knowledge is painful.

Sure we're powerless a lot. What we're NOT powerless about is our reaction to these things.

You've made up a myth that the earth was cleansed by God through these natural catastrophes.

I don't share that delusion.

Take your own advice, and dig deeper. Your spirit will be more at peace and able to tolerate the fact that not everyone agrees with your view.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Says a person that claims not to believe in the Lord, but elevates people to godlike status.

You only say this, because you don't understand what Buddha is. Buddha is not God or god like. You think you know more about Buddhism than a Buddhist does. I don't think I know more about Christianity than a Christian does. I know about it, from being a cradle Catholic. I know only my own experience, and I trust myself. You trust YOUR own experience too, and I'm sure it's different from mine. I stand in the immediacy of my own experience, and I am VERY grateful to have found Buddhism.

Buddha is the highest potential a human being can achieve. Buddha means "awake". Awake to one's Buddhanature within. In Tibetan, the word for Buddha, is Sang Gye. It means "to clear away, and to unfold".

What is "cleared away "are negative emotions, and what "enfolds", are positive qualities, like love, compassion, joy and equanimity.

No one is "elevated to god-like status" in Buddhism. That would be total arrogance. Buddha is a non-egoic state of awareness.

The ones who seem arrogant to me, are Christians, because they think their path is the ONLY one ANY human being should practice.

Contrast that, to what the Dalai Lama says. He tells Christians to stay on their path, and he supports us Buddhists, to stay on ours.

What I think is possible, is that what some people call "God", may actually be the state of meditation of being in presence, awake and aware. I'm sure we don't agree. I find common ground with some Christians who are more mystical, rather than fundamentalist.

I don't think that I know more about Buddhism than those that follow that faith. I have read a little about it. What I have read is interesting. IMHO, it is like communism: this great idea, that in reality cannot work for society. The monks and hermits use it well.
Sorry, I am not seeing those "negative emotions" cleared from you. I see a lot of anger, bitterness, arrogance in your posts. I hope you achieve that "non-egoic state of awareness" (oh, how nice) state, soon.

Quite right. I am human, not a Buddha. Yes, I have anger, bitterness and arrogance. I do not judge myself harshly for any of it, the way you judge me. Buddhists have a unique teaching about emptiness. I cannot teach you about it. It's not appropriate and you're not interested in it. But if you caught a glimpse of it, you would see through these temporary adventitious negative states.

That softness and kindness toward my human imperfections is part of my training. When I am able to do that for myself, then I am also able to see the humanness in others.

We all have Buddha nature, the purity of timeless awarenes within us. It just has to be recognized, and then we must train in that recognition, moment to moment.

What you see in me here is only a small part of what I am in my whole life. You see places where I am vulnerable, because of my past experience.

This is the way that karma is purified. Not through contrivance, pretending to be better than others, not through identification with these negative states of mind, nor by trying to exile them.

Purification comes with just being with it.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Quite right. I am human, not a Buddha. Yes, I have anger, bitterness and arrogance.

What you mostly have is delusion.

Try this, grasstoker: Go to a pond, take an eye dropper and extract a drop of water. Deposit the drop on a plate. Now dump the drop back in the pond.


Now reincarnate the drop. Why can you or can't you reincarnate the drop?

The answer is why you are delusional.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Quite right. I am human, not a Buddha. Yes, I have anger, bitterness and arrogance.

What you mostly have is delusion.

Try this, grasstoker: Go to a pond, take an eye dropper and extract a drop of water. Deposit the drop on a plate. Now dump the drop back in the pond.


Now reincarnate the drop. Why can you or can't you reincarnate the drop?

The answer is why you are delusional.

Yes, I'm delusional. I'm a human being. All human beings have a mix of the five poisons of the mind. Delusion or ignorance, is one of the "five poisons of the mind". The most basic ignorance we have, is of our solid sense of self.

According to the Buddha, that's what separates sentient beings from Buddhahood. Buddha is free of delusion.

 

[Sky Dancer]

The Lord gave all of us life, how is that not positive?

You claim to have read the Bible, I guess you are another one of those that have no ability to "comprehend" the Bible. Yeshua loved, healed, forgave, elevated, equated, and saved people. All have been invited to His table. If you want to throw a hissy fit because the "heavenly escorts" weren't sent for you, that is your choice. Stick with Buddha, see where he is on judgement day: hint: he will be on his knees in front of the Lord, just like all the rest of us. Maybe at that point you will realize, you chose wrong, but then again...........

You believe the "Lord" gave you life. I don't. My parents gave me life. My karma gave me "precious human life" which is something that Christians don't have.

I've read the bible enough. It makes me sick. I will NOT read it any more. It's toxic to me. It's poison to me. It's nectar to you.

There is no "judgment day". When I die, I will be reborn in one of six realms depending on my karma.

Even if I am reborn in a hell realm, it is impermanent. Eventually, I will become enlightened and fully realize my Buddha nature.

I am not trying to turn YOU against Christianity. Why are YOU trying to turn me away from Buddhism?

This is what YOU do. Christian arrogance. My way or the highway. You have NO fucking business telling me I chose WRONG. My path chose me.

Aren't you???? Trying to turn me from Chistianity?

I have found that the Bible "is toxic" to those that are under the influence of demons. Other people will just read it and say "interesting" or "good story", but those that have demons can't stand the Bible or any symbol of Christianity near them. In some cases it makes them physically ill.

"Enlightenment" always meant knowing the truth (to me). It is apparent that you are not interested in the truth, but having the world view things as SD does. I feel sorry for you. That is something that will never happen. It is just not human nature to look at the world thru someone else's eyes without it being slanted by our own views. Just the same, I wish you happiness, though my experiences have shown me that with views like yours (dependent on the actions of others), you will not make it.

No, I'm not the slightest bit interested in "turning you away from Christianity".

If you wish to "demonize me" because I find the bible and Christianity "toxic" to me, so be it. Consider me a devil. I'm much happier as a "devil" than I was as a Christian.

Thank you for wishing for my happness. I will make it. So will every other sentient being. I'm already on my way. I have "precious human life", and this is far different, than ordinary human life.

Take care.

May all beings come to know complete and perfect enlightenment in this very lifetime.

 

[emilynghiem]

You only say this, because you don't understand what Buddha is. Buddha is not God or god like. You think you know more about Buddhism than a Buddhist does. I don't think I know more about Christianity than a Christian does. I know about it, from being a cradle Catholic. I know only my own experience, and I trust myself. You trust YOUR own experience too, and I'm sure it's different from mine. I stand in the immediacy of my own experience, and I am VERY grateful to have found Buddhism.

Buddha is the highest potential a human being can achieve. Buddha means "awake". Awake to one's Buddhanature within. In Tibetan, the word for Buddha, is Sang Gye. It means "to clear away, and to unfold".

What is "cleared away "are negative emotions, and what "enfolds", are positive qualities, like love, compassion, joy and equanimity.

No one is "elevated to god-like status" in Buddhism. That would be total arrogance. Buddha is a non-egoic state of awareness.

The ones who seem arrogant to me, are Christians, because they think their path is the ONLY one ANY human being should practice.

Contrast that, to what the Dalai Lama says. He tells Christians to stay on their path, and he supports us Buddhists, to stay on ours.

What I think is possible, is that what some people call "God", may actually be the state of meditation of being in presence, awake and aware. I'm sure we don't agree. I find common ground with some Christians who are more mystical, rather than fundamentalist.

I don't think that I know more about Buddhism than those that follow that faith. I have read a little about it. What I have read is interesting. IMHO, it is like communism: this great idea, that in reality cannot work for society. The monks and hermits use it well.
Sorry, I am not seeing those "negative emotions" cleared from you. I see a lot of anger, bitterness, arrogance in your posts. I hope you achieve that "non-egoic state of awareness" (oh, how nice) state, soon.

Quite right. I am human, not a Buddha. Yes, I have anger, bitterness and arrogance. I do not judge myself harshly for any of it, the way you judge me. Buddhists have a unique teaching about emptiness. I cannot teach you about it. It's not appropriate and you're not interested in it. But if you caught a glimpse of it, you would see through these temporary adventitious negative states.

That softness and kindness toward my human imperfections is part of my training. When I am able to do that for myself, then I am also able to see the humanness in others.

We all have Buddha nature, the purity of timeless awarenes within us. It just has to be recognized, and then we must train in that recognition, moment to moment.

What you see in me here is only a small part of what I am in my whole life. You see places where I am vulnerable, because of my past experience.

This is the way that karma is purified. Not through contrivance, pretending to be better than others, not through identification with these negative states of mind, nor by trying to exile them.

Purification comes with just being with it.

Dear Sky: Thank you for this incredibly honest post. I wish more people could see what you mean by what you say. There seems to be a lot of projection back and forth getting in the way of really seeing what is beyond all that. But keep going and I'm sure it will work itself out.

As for your views of Christianity as toxic, please remember that people WILL associate what you say with Buddhism whether it is just your experience you are speaking from.
It might help if you did acknowledge you recognize there are many people who benefit from Christianity who would not be helped otherwise; but it is just your personal experience or injury that makes you react negatively to it that is more about you and not about Christianity itself.

I have a friend I mentioned before who has such a "spiritual allergic reaction" against anything Christian, he just cannot help it until he gets a better grip or addresses the karma that went into that. But he does try to acknowledge that Christians who are trying to help mean well, and do not have any ill intent at all, and it is just his personal issues and reaction that get in the way. He has trouble saying that, but he has tried. He still hates when this "dominionist" thing gets imposed on others as if they have license to do that.
But that is not Christianity itself.

You have your own way of saying these things. I can see you are trying your best to explain and are being as honest as possible as to where you are in your own spiritual path and process.

That "awareness" that you are in grief and recovery, whether anger or projection, if you still reacting or have resentment triggered by certain people groups or ideas,
that "awareness" of both your flaws and your strengths, your process, your past and your future goals and ideals of where you and humanity is heading, that "awareness" is what makes us Buddhist.

The more clear it becomes that you are "aware" of your biases and projections just like anyone else on here then it is clear there is not denial or delusion going on that is not causing yet another level of denial or delusion!

I think that is what was causing attacks back on you; the sense that where you were not yet at peace, the denial and defensiveness back and forth was taking turns being blamed on one person or another. I think the Buddhist way would be to acknowledge that the blockage exists and is mutual between the two parties; and not trying to push it on one person more than the other. The Christian way would be for both parties to acknowledge, confess and pray for forgiveness for this enmity to be released and given to God.

So wherever you are in your process of having this enmity between Buddhism and Christianity removed from your relationships with others, I do pray for "radical acceptance" or "healing grace" to clear the way for perfection and no more of this nonsense back and forth.

Bless you Sister Sky, may peace be yours in fulfilling the path of you and all others you encounter in life, Buddhists and Christians, theists and nontheists, walking hand in hand, side by side, guiding each other and keeping each other balanced and in line where we agree in truth. May that spirit of truth and wisdom free us from any thing distracting deluding or dividing us otherwise. May your experiences and your words to express them grow richer and wiser, more fulfilling in peace and understanding. May the things that troubled you from the past be removed and healed, so that you may continue on your path and find you align more with others who are not your enemy but who share in this common struggle to overcome conflicts and suffering, and to work together for the betterment of ourselves, society, and all humanity.

May your greatest aspirations and visions come to pass in even greater and more glorious ways than you imagined, that you will see the same global peace and justice that the Christians equally prophesy and teach, where these unique diverse paths we are all on are fulfilled as one and there is no separation in spirit, but all humanity joins as one.

Thank you Sky Blessings and Prayers to you
in fulfilling your path and purpose in Life

 

[Sky Dancer]

I don't think that I know more about Buddhism than those that follow that faith. I have read a little about it. What I have read is interesting. IMHO, it is like communism: this great idea, that in reality cannot work for society. The monks and hermits use it well.
Sorry, I am not seeing those "negative emotions" cleared from you. I see a lot of anger, bitterness, arrogance in your posts. I hope you achieve that "non-egoic state of awareness" (oh, how nice) state, soon.

Quite right. I am human, not a Buddha. Yes, I have anger, bitterness and arrogance. I do not judge myself harshly for any of it, the way you judge me. Buddhists have a unique teaching about emptiness. I cannot teach you about it. It's not appropriate and you're not interested in it. But if you caught a glimpse of it, you would see through these temporary adventitious negative states.

That softness and kindness toward my human imperfections is part of my training. When I am able to do that for myself, then I am also able to see the humanness in others.

We all have Buddha nature, the purity of timeless awarenes within us. It just has to be recognized, and then we must train in that recognition, moment to moment.

What you see in me here is only a small part of what I am in my whole life. You see places where I am vulnerable, because of my past experience.

This is the way that karma is purified. Not through contrivance, pretending to be better than others, not through identification with these negative states of mind, nor by trying to exile them.

Purification comes with just being with it.

Dear Sky: Thank you for this incredibly honest post. I wish more people could see what you mean by what you say. As for your views of Christianity as toxic, please remember that people WILL associate what you say with Buddhism whether it is just your experience you are speaking from.

It might help if you did acknowledge you recognize there are many people who benefit from Christianity who would not be helped otherwise; but it is just your personal experience or injury that makes you react negatively to it that is more about you and not about Christianity itself.

Thank you Sky Blessings and Prayers to you
in fulfilling your path and purpose in Life

I have stated MANY times that Christianity is a valid spiritual path for OTHERS.

I think you ought to make up your mind whether you are a Christian or a Buddhist. You seem like a Christian to me.

 

[emilynghiem]

I don't think that I know more about Buddhism than those that follow that faith. I have read a little about it. What I have read is interesting. IMHO, it is like communism: this great idea, that in reality cannot work for society. The monks and hermits use it well.
Sorry, I am not seeing those "negative emotions" cleared from you. I see a lot of anger, bitterness, arrogance in your posts. I hope you achieve that "non-egoic state of awareness" (oh, how nice) state, soon.

Hi Logical: The comments you make here bring up several different responses from me.
1. First of all, it is not the lack of anger that makes someone Buddhist but the "awareness" that one is angry. We are all going to go through our stages of grief, denial and anger being part of that, by our human nature and need to process out in healing. That is just life. The difference is being "aware" of where we are right now and to deal with that one step at a time.

If you are aware of the chain of causes and effect that the anger is part of, then those are higher and higher levels of awareness or Buddhahood if you are fully aware. If you are aware and can also forgive that is even higher. I have no way to tell where Sky is in this process, but it is clear she makes the commitment to become fully aware, and she admits she is aware she has resentments and is working on that. The fact she suffered religious abuse under Catholicism, and has additional layers of hurt to forgive and heal gives her more to work through than people who did not have that. It is sad to me that Christianity offers the key to divine forgiveness for the worst of sinful damages, but this cannot be accessed yet because of the scar tissues that are still too sensitive to these associations.
It just takes time, and no one can rush or skips steps in their process.

What more can you ask of a person but to make the commitment and to try?
Where Sky may be weak, is no different from where we all have trouble in this area, is "forgiveness" or trust in acceptance. Some things in life are going to be so embedded in our psyche's, so clearly outside our personal will, that is where people turn to call on Divine Grace on the collective level of Christ Jesus to remove what is beyond our ability.

But to get to that point, we need to be "aware" how much is really our own doing, and take responsibility for accepting or letting go of that part. And then the part we did not ask for or control but was inherited from some collective source, that is the part we can ask for higher help to give back to the Source. Buddhist practice teaches the meditation and discipline of the mind, to sort out what is the source of what level of reaction, how much comes from us, from this lifetime or BEYOND this lifetime. This is a constant process, that again cannot be rushed or judged where anyone is at any time. You just have to sort it out for yourself, and know what and when you are ready for which step. Nobody else can judge or tell you because each person is different.

You say that Buddhism cannot work, but this commitment to self-examination and improvement is critical to ANY person or system being more effective.

This can be applied to any faith or practice or purpose, to being a better Christian, a more discerning Scientist, a better counselor, whatever your path in life, the practice of self-contemplation and commitment to develop higher "Wisdom" and equal "Compassion" for all living things in harmony, that is a very high but humbling calling at the same time.

2. You are right it sounds impossible to achieve such a perfect state of harmony in real life. In reality, there is crime and war, and the need for weapons and force as a means of defense is necessary UNTIL we can have perfect conflict resolution to prevent oppression from being aggression. This is part of the reality we live in.

But what you say brings up for me what I just posted on a different forum, that the practice of Constitutionalism, of "equal protection of the laws" in the PHYSICAL world is harder than Buddhist or Christian practice that calls for followers to seek this spiritually. To achieve equality in a world where people are unequal by education, by resources, by levels of social emotional political and spiritual awareness, are you kidding???

So I just had to stop and respond to that. I think anyone can practice Buddhism and Christianity and be successful because it only involves YOUR OWN commitment, NOT for you to be perfect in achieving peace for everyone else! But in Constitutionalism the laws STATE for the government to provide equal protection of the laws without discrimination by race, religion, or other status, which seems impossible in this society because of where we are right now. We are aware of the inequality and class conflicts and oppression going on, but we are not at the point of understanding ALL levels of the causes where we can fully forgive and work together. We know SOME Of the causes and end up projecting responsibility back and forth for what we can see is problematic; but it is not mutual agreement to work together, it is more like denial and blaming others more than us.

I happen to believe Buddhism and Christianity are the keys to working inside and out to achieve peace on all levels, both within ourselves at the source of what we can address directly and wholly; and in relations with others which I find does require the divine forgiveness and healing grace in Christ Jesus to break the cycle of retribution and division that harms our ability to work together as equals. Again those practices seem easy in comparison with what the laws say in Constitutionalism that we are NOT MEETING.

3. And lastly, overall, you could say that ANY system you look at has flaws that make it not work when taken to extremes or abused unchecked. The Christians can become overbearing and imposing and defeat their purpose by teaching the opposite message of what is truly meant, creating fear and hate of judgment instead of love and forgiveness of one another as neighbors. The Buddhists can become so focused on only changing oneself and refraining from the risk of imposing or indoctrinating others that injustice can go on that could have been corrected or prevented; there is not enough instruction in Buddhism on how to communicate and intervene in relationship with others as in Christianity or Constitutionalism that have laws on due process and redressing grievances. And in Constitutionalism, the freedom of individuals can be abused to violate the same rights of others because the laws on defense depend on proving after the violation has occurred and it leaves it to people to deal with moral issues in private; by consent of the governed, for reforms and corrections to take place, people have to agree on this, or else it causes much political imposition and backlash between parties or groups with opposing biases in how they frame problems and solutions. To truly represent the consent of all groups and people equally, would require conflict resolution across the board BEFORE policies are crafted that reflect such a consensus of the public interest without discrimination or bias.
So that is an ongoing process where not everyone sees the need to do this, but it seems easier to abuse party politics to push for majority rule regardless of the opposing dissent.
What a mess. If you look at what our laws say, you might say that is hopeless and impossible also! When I read the Constitutional principles and ethics, which I do believe in enforcing by living these and defending them myself, I feel great responsibility but I also weep for how much work it will take to really achieve that in practice.

Read 'em and weep:
ethics-commission.net
It sounds ideal, but can we really achieve equal peace justice and freedom for all
people when we don't even agree that all people deserve to be treated with respect?

Look at how we treat each other, that just makes me weep for humanity sometimes.

 

[emilynghiem]

I have stated MANY times that Christianity is a valid spiritual path for OTHERS.

I think you ought to make up your mind whether you are a Christian or a Buddhist. You seem like a Christian to me.

Hi Sky:
A. I have stated MANY times that Christianity is a valid spiritual path for OTHERS.
A. I think the problem here is there is dual use of the term Christianity.
Similar to how "Jewish" refers to both the Jewish Culture and the Jewish Faith.

There is both the external Christianity that refers to the cultural practice.
But there is also a universal meaning and spirit to Christianity that is like a thread
running through all people.

Buddhism has this too.
There is the external Buddhism that refers to cultural practice, also language and terms for concepts.
But there is also the universal process that Buddhism refers to that applies to ALL people of all walks of life!

So Sky, that is fine if you only want to talk about the surface meaning and practice of Christianity and Buddhism as distinct from each other.

But it is not fair to confuse this or mislead people to deny there is also
a UNIVERSAL meaning to the concepts in BOTH Buddhism and Christianity
that apply to all people and are not just for Buddhists or Christians.

Your language does not make this distinction between the two levels.
That is where I would disagree with you.

I AGREE that the Buddhist/Christian culture/language/practices are different.
But I also distinguish that from the universal meaning behind both that
point to the same process of humanity reaching peace and understanding of truth.

I hope you can understand what I am saying.

B. As for me being Buddhist/Christian

For the external level of cultural language, you could say I am bilingual.
You may see I have more of a Christian accent when I speak, but believe me,
my Christian friends will say I have a secular or Buddhist accent when I talk!

For the universal level of what both Christianity/Buddhism are describing in terms of the human spiritual process, I believe in both, I apply both, and try to speak to people using whichever way communicates where we can agree point by point.

To be honest, I feel I am Constitutionalist first.
I do apply Christian faith in forgiveness and correction by "Restorative Justice" to the
laws in Constitutional principles and ethics. The same way Christians practice by sharing and agreeing on scripture with others, I use the Constitutional laws to establish a common standard of civil society and relations. I believe in due process, not waiting for courts or judges to practice this, but to practice daily in trying to resolve grievances democratically and hearing each other and not accusing without proof and certainly not punishing someone while that person is still trying to explain, defend or correct what went wrong.

Then I apply the Constitutional standard of equal free exercise to whatever beliefs people ahve and whatever language they use to express it, whether theist or nontheist, Christian Buddhist Muslim etc. The only way I see to protect all people views and interests equally is to resolve conflicts so there is no imposition or unfair bias or discrimination, but all issues are addressed by the mutual consent of the parties affected.

So whatever you call that. Restorative Justice is probably the best term for what I believe in, cooperative economics, Constitutional ethics, conflict resolution. Restorative Justice is to me the secular equivalent of believing in Christ Jesus. Just like living by charity is the spirit of Christianity. And consent of the governed/equal protection of the laws is the spirit of Constitutionalism.

For Buddhism and Christianity, I believe God/Jesus is the spirit of Truth and Justice so yes I believe in that. Christianity focuses on Truth and Love the way Buddhism is based on Wisdom and Compassion, and I believe in both ways of teaching that!

Perhaps because I am more outspoken and proactive in pushing for reforms, then I will come across as more Christian or Constitutionalist. I tend to address a lot more Christians so of course I am going to rely on speaking that language to resolve issues and reach agreement. The language may be specific to that group, but the message is universal in both Christianity and Buddhism, so of course I am under both because I am human.

 

[Divine Wind]

Unwillingness to exercise a power doesn't demonstrates inability to exercise it.

Agreed. Besides, if Christ saved himself, not only would that go against God but it would defeat the entire purpose of his existence on Earth.

Who was responsible for Christ's death?
A. The Jewish leaders.
B. The Romans.
C. God

Any Christian who doesn't understand the answer is C. isn't a very knowledgeable Christian.