If Guns Kill People...

[ColonelAngus]

So you haven't noticed we have a much higher homicide rate than countries with strong gun control?

LOL, nice attempt at a dodge away from your assertion that criminals only arm themselves with guns because law abiding citizens do, what happened? common sense and reason finally kick in and you realized how idiotic you sounded?

What I have noticed is that we have a different culture, institutions, system of government, population and population distribution and traditions than other countries.
.... and we had founders that were wise enough to recognize that the right of self defense is both inherent and worthless without the ability to acquire the means to exercise it.

If you're afraid of gun owners perhaps you should try out one of those other countries with "strong gun control", like for example MEXICO , see how it suits ya and refrain from attempting to squander the liberty of your fellow citizens and their progeny.

"The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance." -- John Philpot Curan

The research is clear: gun control saves lives

So then you explain the stats in the link I gave you that shows gun laws have no effect on murder rates

We are seeing now that violent crime is increasing with concealed carry. Except in New York which has very limited carry... violent crime is down there.

So then you explain the stats in the link I gave you that shows gun laws have no effect on murder rates

He can't. IF GUNS CAUSE MURDER RATES TO CLIMB, WHY ARE MURDER RATES FROM GUNS DOWN 50% WHILE GUN OWNERSHIP IS UP 50%?

PROGS ARE LIARS.

If what they said was TRUE....the murder rate would have gone up PROPORTIONALLY to the number of guns, not inversely.

Progs not only LIE....they suck at math.

 

[Brain357]

Law abiding until not. Criminals arm up because everyone else does. This leads to more death.

LOL, just out of curiosity when does your spaceship arrive on Earth?

"Either you are stark raving mad, or I am!" -- John Adams, HBO John Adams

So you haven't noticed we have a much higher homicide rate than countries with strong gun control?

LOL, nice attempt at a dodge away from your assertion that criminals only arm themselves with guns because law abiding citizens do, what happened? common sense and reason finally kick in and you realized how idiotic you sounded?

What I have noticed is that we have a different culture, institutions, system of government, population and population distribution and traditions than other countries.
.... and we had founders that were wise enough to recognize that the right of self defense is both inherent and worthless without the ability to acquire the means to exercise it.

If you're afraid of gun owners perhaps you should try out one of those other countries with "strong gun control", like for example MEXICO , see how it suits ya and refrain from attempting to squander the liberty of your fellow citizens and their progeny.

"The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance." -- John Philpot Curan

The research is clear: gun control saves lives

Tell that to all the dead Soviet citizens that the Bolsheviks wacked right after disarming them... or the 762 people killed in "Gun Control Central" Chicago by guns last year.

Freedom isn't free, if you want the freedom to exercise your right to self defense then it comes with consequences, it don't want that freedom then fine, check yourself into a nice, safe gilded cage and stop trying to dilute the individual liberty of everybody that does.

"All might be free if they valued freedom, and defended it as they should.." -- Samuel Adams

Chicago doesn't have a wall. Gun control is limited when just a city. Things have gotten worse since getting concealed carry.

 

[Brain357]

LOL, nice attempt at a dodge away from your assertion that criminals only arm themselves with guns because law abiding citizens do, what happened? common sense and reason finally kick in and you realized how idiotic you sounded?

What I have noticed is that we have a different culture, institutions, system of government, population and population distribution and traditions than other countries.
.... and we had founders that were wise enough to recognize that the right of self defense is both inherent and worthless without the ability to acquire the means to exercise it.

If you're afraid of gun owners perhaps you should try out one of those other countries with "strong gun control", like for example MEXICO , see how it suits ya and refrain from attempting to squander the liberty of your fellow citizens and their progeny.

"The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance." -- John Philpot Curan

The research is clear: gun control saves lives

So then you explain the stats in the link I gave you that shows gun laws have no effect on murder rates

We are seeing now that violent crime is increasing with concealed carry. Except in New York which has very limited carry... violent crime is down there.

So then you explain the stats in the link I gave you that shows gun laws have no effect on murder rates

He can't. IF GUNS CAUSE MURDER RATES TO CLIMB, WHY ARE MURDER RATES FROM GUNS DOWN 50% WHILE GUN OWNERSHIP IS UP 50%?

PROGS ARE LIARS.

If what they said was TRUE....the murder rate would have gone up PROPORTIONALLY to the number of guns, not inversely.

Progs not only LIE....they suck at math.

Bill Clinton crime bill and gun control.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Crazy people with guns kill people.

Crazy people must get back ground checked and keeped away from guns.

How do you find out if someone is crazy? How do you predict when someone will go crazy?

Best way to stop gun violence is to allow everyone to have a gun. Even a crazy person wouldn't try to pull something then.

We have the most guns in the world. Many places with few guns have much lower crime rates than us. When citizens arm up so do criminals. That is why our violent crime rate is increasing.

Law abiding citizens own guns to protect their property and life. Criminals obtain guns to kill and murder. There is a difference.

But when both can get guns, you get the former needing to happen more often and the latter happening more often.

 

[frigidweirdo]

And our murder rate is at a 120 year low with a steep downward trend over the last 3 decades.

I don't know what our baseline murder rate is but there are more variables than guns in the equation.
As far back as I can find the US murder rate has always been higher than that of the UK and other European countries.

Why is that?

Fine, throw in irrelevant facts to counter my relevant facts.

Why not put in how many blow jobs the last NFL quarterback scored in the last Superbowl too for good measure?

The US has the HIGHEST MURDER RATE in the FIRST WORLD by A LONG FUCKING WAY. No matter how much this rate is going down, it's still the fucking highest murder rate and you seem to think that people's deaths are okay because... because... I fucking don't know.

And we always have had a higher murder rate.

If you look at our stats and our stats only your arguments fall apart.

We have more guns than ever but our murder rate is declining and if the trend continues we will set a record for the lowest murder rate in 120 years.

If one looks at the races committing gun violence, one finds that minorities are responsible for much of it. Blacks, though a small percentage of the population, commit a good portion of gun violence. Hispanics do too, but somewhat smaller even though they represent a greater percentage of the population than blacks.

I find it strange that the left is all about promoting racial issues, but they will never discuss the fact that blacks cause so much gun violence. Hypocrites!

It's no mystery that a small number of ultra violent urban areas account for a large number of murders and gun crimes that skew the totals

Yet this is never spoken of by the MSM or the ruling class. This could be an indication that they don't care about crime, but do want more control and power centralized in the federal government. Always a recipe for death and suffering.

They probably don't mention it because it's pretty damn obvious. It's like pointing out that the sun rose today.

But your comments seem to imply that it's okay that there are inner city crime hell holes, as long as it doesn't make it outside of this area, then everyone (who you give a fuck about) is happy.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Here's another fact. You don't check your "facts" before you make them up.

In 1960 the US murder rate was 5.1, in 1963 it was 4.6, in 2015 it was 5.3.

Now, where I come from 5.3 is a HIGHER number than 4.6, but where you come, I guess anything is possible.

In 1950 it was 4.6.

I use 1950 because that was the decade before the UK started passing all it's gun laws and as we see the murder rate in the UK has not dropped below what it was before all their gun laws were passed.

And if you bothered to really look you'd see the murder rate in European countries rose right onto the 90's just like ours did.

So comparing the UK's murder rate pre and post gun laws we see that those gun laws did not reduce the murder rates

Comparing our murder rates for the same 60 years we see that while the rate did climb as it did almost everywhere we have seen a steep decline in the past 30 years and are on ace to see the lowest murder rate in the past 120 years all while having more guns.

So when you say guns raise the murder rate you are obviously wrong

Oh, wow, so, not only was it 4.6 in the 1960s, it was 4.6 in the 1950s too, and now it's 5.3. So, how's that claim that murders are at a 120 year low going for you?

You're telling ME that if I bothered looking up the facts? Are you serious?

I'm not disputing that the murder rates in European countries rose in the 1990s. What I'm saying is that the murder rate of the US has ALWAYS BEEN MUCH, MUCH HIGHER than that of other first world countries.

Do you agree or disagree with this?


You say I'm wrong that guns raise the murder rate? Why's that? The US has had guns since forever. And it's had a higher murder rate since, who knows? forever?

There are other factors which can raise and lower murder rates. You seem to be trying to make some argument that if the murder rate rises because of other reasons, therefore guns don't have an impact.

Which is clearly wrong as the US with lots of guns having a 4 times higher murder rate all through history seems to show no matter how much you try and present some cherry picked facts you didn't even bother to look up.

In 2016 it was 4.9 not 5.3

And I don't know if the murder rate was 4 times higher in "all of history" do you want to back that claim up?

If the murder rate is related to the number of guns as you say it is then tell me why is our murder dropping when we have more guns and more people carrying concealed weapons than ever before?

So, are you now saying the 4.9 is LOWER than 4.6?

United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2016

I got 2015 at 4.9, 2016 at 5.3

2016 Crime Statistics Released

"There were an estimated 17,250 murders in the U.S. last year, an 8.6 percent increase from 2015."

What Rising Murder Rates in US Cities Mean for 2016

"
What Rising Murder Rates in US Cities Mean for 2016"

Table 2

FBI says 5.3 too.

Me thinks this is ANOTHER CASE of you making shit up.

2015 it was 4.9 1950 it was 4.8 as I said virtually the same

I didn't use numbers from 2016 because i didn't have them at the time

But no matter we still have had a 30 year decline despite having more guns.
even with the slight increase in 2016 the overall trend is downward

How is what you're doing different from people using one year's harsh winter as proof that global warming is a farce?

Oh, right, so you told me that you knew 2016, then said I was wrong for saying it was 5.3. Great.

There was a rise in murders and a decline in murders.

Now, your argument seems to be that other countries saw a rise and the US saw a rise too. Well, like I said, other factors might increase or decrease the murder rates. I believe that entertainment in the last 20 years or so has decreased murder because people have more things to do. And increase in murders was probably inevitable due to a modern society. However in the UK the murder rate rise wasn't that big. The UK murder rate has remained more or less steady, with a dip in the 1950s when there was a lot of employment. Maybe other factors took place too.

But you see the Canadian and the US chart, Canada's rate is consistently THREE TIMES lower than the US rate. Why? The number of guns is a certainty. There are 25 guns per 100 people in Canada, compared to 101 or higher.

So, 4 times the guns, three times the murders. Hmmm....

There's a downward trend in many first world countries. And yet you seem to be trying to say that a downward trend means the US doesn't have 3 or 4 times the murder rate of other First World countries, when it clearly does.

 

[frigidweirdo]

How do you find out if someone is crazy? How do you predict when someone will go crazy?

Best way to stop gun violence is to allow everyone to have a gun. Even a crazy person wouldn't try to pull something then.

We have the most guns in the world. Many places with few guns have much lower crime rates than us. When citizens arm up so do criminals. That is why our violent crime rate is increasing.

Law abiding citizens own guns to protect their property and life. Criminals obtain guns to kill and murder. There is a difference.

Law abiding until not. Criminals arm up because everyone else does. This leads to more death.

So if law abiding people are stripped of their guns criminals won't use them?

Really?

The chances are that if guns are illegal, and hard to get hold of, then criminals will be much more careful about their guns. The latter part is important. Right now there is such a massive supply of guns, criminals don't need to worry about losing a gun.

 

[gipper]

Fine, throw in irrelevant facts to counter my relevant facts.

Why not put in how many blow jobs the last NFL quarterback scored in the last Superbowl too for good measure?

The US has the HIGHEST MURDER RATE in the FIRST WORLD by A LONG FUCKING WAY. No matter how much this rate is going down, it's still the fucking highest murder rate and you seem to think that people's deaths are okay because... because... I fucking don't know.

And we always have had a higher murder rate.

If you look at our stats and our stats only your arguments fall apart.

We have more guns than ever but our murder rate is declining and if the trend continues we will set a record for the lowest murder rate in 120 years.

If one looks at the races committing gun violence, one finds that minorities are responsible for much of it. Blacks, though a small percentage of the population, commit a good portion of gun violence. Hispanics do too, but somewhat smaller even though they represent a greater percentage of the population than blacks.

I find it strange that the left is all about promoting racial issues, but they will never discuss the fact that blacks cause so much gun violence. Hypocrites!

It's no mystery that a small number of ultra violent urban areas account for a large number of murders and gun crimes that skew the totals

Yet this is never spoken of by the MSM or the ruling class. This could be an indication that they don't care about crime, but do want more control and power centralized in the federal government. Always a recipe for death and suffering.

They probably don't mention it because it's pretty damn obvious. It's like pointing out that the sun rose today.

But your comments seem to imply that it's okay that there are inner city crime hell holes, as long as it doesn't make it outside of this area, then everyone (who you give a fuck about) is happy.

They would mention it ad nauseum, if it were Rs killing each other. They don't mention it because it is Ds killing each other.

I made no such implication, but you implying such a thing only makes you look silly and hateful.

 

[BluesLegend]

And we always have had a higher murder rate.

If you look at our stats and our stats only your arguments fall apart.

We have more guns than ever but our murder rate is declining and if the trend continues we will set a record for the lowest murder rate in 120 years.

If one looks at the races committing gun violence, one finds that minorities are responsible for much of it. Blacks, though a small percentage of the population, commit a good portion of gun violence. Hispanics do too, but somewhat smaller even though they represent a greater percentage of the population than blacks.

I find it strange that the left is all about promoting racial issues, but they will never discuss the fact that blacks cause so much gun violence. Hypocrites!

It's no mystery that a small number of ultra violent urban areas account for a large number of murders and gun crimes that skew the totals

Yet this is never spoken of by the MSM or the ruling class. This could be an indication that they don't care about crime, but do want more control and power centralized in the federal government. Always a recipe for death and suffering.

They probably don't mention it because it's pretty damn obvious. It's like pointing out that the sun rose today.

But your comments seem to imply that it's okay that there are inner city crime hell holes, as long as it doesn't make it outside of this area, then everyone (who you give a fuck about) is happy.

They would mention ad nauseum, if it were Rs killing each other. They don't mention it because it is Ds killing each other.

I made no such implication, but you implying such a thing only makes you look silly and hateful.

The left and liberal media don't talk about Chicago because its a blaring example of Democratic party policy failure. Trump threw it in their face during the election, part of why they hate the guy.

 

[frigidweirdo]

And we always have had a higher murder rate.

If you look at our stats and our stats only your arguments fall apart.

We have more guns than ever but our murder rate is declining and if the trend continues we will set a record for the lowest murder rate in 120 years.

If one looks at the races committing gun violence, one finds that minorities are responsible for much of it. Blacks, though a small percentage of the population, commit a good portion of gun violence. Hispanics do too, but somewhat smaller even though they represent a greater percentage of the population than blacks.

I find it strange that the left is all about promoting racial issues, but they will never discuss the fact that blacks cause so much gun violence. Hypocrites!

It's no mystery that a small number of ultra violent urban areas account for a large number of murders and gun crimes that skew the totals

Yet this is never spoken of by the MSM or the ruling class. This could be an indication that they don't care about crime, but do want more control and power centralized in the federal government. Always a recipe for death and suffering.

They probably don't mention it because it's pretty damn obvious. It's like pointing out that the sun rose today.

But your comments seem to imply that it's okay that there are inner city crime hell holes, as long as it doesn't make it outside of this area, then everyone (who you give a fuck about) is happy.

They would mention it ad nauseum, if it were Rs killing each other. They don't mention it because it is Ds killing each other.

I made no such implication, but you implying such a thing only makes you look silly and hateful.

Oh, you're talking nonsense, and then you put in at the end that it makes me look silly.

How ironic.

 

[gipper]

If one looks at the races committing gun violence, one finds that minorities are responsible for much of it. Blacks, though a small percentage of the population, commit a good portion of gun violence. Hispanics do too, but somewhat smaller even though they represent a greater percentage of the population than blacks.

I find it strange that the left is all about promoting racial issues, but they will never discuss the fact that blacks cause so much gun violence. Hypocrites!

It's no mystery that a small number of ultra violent urban areas account for a large number of murders and gun crimes that skew the totals

Yet this is never spoken of by the MSM or the ruling class. This could be an indication that they don't care about crime, but do want more control and power centralized in the federal government. Always a recipe for death and suffering.

They probably don't mention it because it's pretty damn obvious. It's like pointing out that the sun rose today.

But your comments seem to imply that it's okay that there are inner city crime hell holes, as long as it doesn't make it outside of this area, then everyone (who you give a fuck about) is happy.

They would mention it ad nauseum, if it were Rs killing each other. They don't mention it because it is Ds killing each other.

I made no such implication, but you implying such a thing only makes you look silly and hateful.

Oh, you're talking nonsense, and then you put in at the end that it makes me look silly.

How ironic.

Yeah the liberal DNC media would never report bad things about Rs.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

Crazy people with guns kill people.

Crazy people must get back ground checked and keeped away from guns.

Define crazy.

Voting for Obama twice is crazy
Voting for Hillary once is crazy

 

[Rustic]

Crazy people with guns kill people.

Crazy people must get back ground checked and keeped away from guns.

How do you find out if someone is crazy? How do you predict when someone will go crazy?

Best way to stop gun violence is to allow everyone to have a gun. Even a crazy person wouldn't try to pull something then.

We have the most guns in the world. Many places with few guns have much lower crime rates than us. When citizens arm up so do criminals. That is why our violent crime rate is increasing.

Like usual the coward is blaming the firearms instead of the criminals... Typical snowflake

 

[Rustic]

Crazy people with guns kill people.

Crazy people must get back ground checked and keeped away from guns.

How do you find out if someone is crazy? How do you predict when someone will go crazy?

Best way to stop gun violence is to allow everyone to have a gun. Even a crazy person wouldn't try to pull something then.

We have the most guns in the world. Many places with few guns have much lower crime rates than us. When citizens arm up so do criminals. That is why our violent crime rate is increasing.

Is it your belief that disarming the law abiding will reduce crime? Do you think criminals will turn in their guns, if Uncle Sam requires it?

They will have less a need for guns and gun violence will decrease.

You are a cowardly fucker... lol

 

[Skull Pilot]

In 1950 it was 4.6.

I use 1950 because that was the decade before the UK started passing all it's gun laws and as we see the murder rate in the UK has not dropped below what it was before all their gun laws were passed.

And if you bothered to really look you'd see the murder rate in European countries rose right onto the 90's just like ours did.

So comparing the UK's murder rate pre and post gun laws we see that those gun laws did not reduce the murder rates

Comparing our murder rates for the same 60 years we see that while the rate did climb as it did almost everywhere we have seen a steep decline in the past 30 years and are on ace to see the lowest murder rate in the past 120 years all while having more guns.

So when you say guns raise the murder rate you are obviously wrong

Oh, wow, so, not only was it 4.6 in the 1960s, it was 4.6 in the 1950s too, and now it's 5.3. So, how's that claim that murders are at a 120 year low going for you?

You're telling ME that if I bothered looking up the facts? Are you serious?

I'm not disputing that the murder rates in European countries rose in the 1990s. What I'm saying is that the murder rate of the US has ALWAYS BEEN MUCH, MUCH HIGHER than that of other first world countries.

Do you agree or disagree with this?


You say I'm wrong that guns raise the murder rate? Why's that? The US has had guns since forever. And it's had a higher murder rate since, who knows? forever?

There are other factors which can raise and lower murder rates. You seem to be trying to make some argument that if the murder rate rises because of other reasons, therefore guns don't have an impact.

Which is clearly wrong as the US with lots of guns having a 4 times higher murder rate all through history seems to show no matter how much you try and present some cherry picked facts you didn't even bother to look up.

In 2016 it was 4.9 not 5.3

And I don't know if the murder rate was 4 times higher in "all of history" do you want to back that claim up?

If the murder rate is related to the number of guns as you say it is then tell me why is our murder dropping when we have more guns and more people carrying concealed weapons than ever before?

So, are you now saying the 4.9 is LOWER than 4.6?

United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2016

I got 2015 at 4.9, 2016 at 5.3

2016 Crime Statistics Released

"There were an estimated 17,250 murders in the U.S. last year, an 8.6 percent increase from 2015."

What Rising Murder Rates in US Cities Mean for 2016

"
What Rising Murder Rates in US Cities Mean for 2016"

Table 2

FBI says 5.3 too.

Me thinks this is ANOTHER CASE of you making shit up.

2015 it was 4.9 1950 it was 4.8 as I said virtually the same

I didn't use numbers from 2016 because i didn't have them at the time

But no matter we still have had a 30 year decline despite having more guns.
even with the slight increase in 2016 the overall trend is downward

How is what you're doing different from people using one year's harsh winter as proof that global warming is a farce?

Oh, right, so you told me that you knew 2016, then said I was wrong for saying it was 5.3. Great.

There was a rise in murders and a decline in murders.

Now, your argument seems to be that other countries saw a rise and the US saw a rise too. Well, like I said, other factors might increase or decrease the murder rates. I believe that entertainment in the last 20 years or so has decreased murder because people have more things to do. And increase in murders was probably inevitable due to a modern society. However in the UK the murder rate rise wasn't that big. The UK murder rate has remained more or less steady, with a dip in the 1950s when there was a lot of employment. Maybe other factors took place too.

But you see the Canadian and the US chart, Canada's rate is consistently THREE TIMES lower than the US rate. Why? The number of guns is a certainty. There are 25 guns per 100 people in Canada, compared to 101 or higher.

So, 4 times the guns, three times the murders. Hmmm....

There's a downward trend in many first world countries. And yet you seem to be trying to say that a downward trend means the US doesn't have 3 or 4 times the murder rate of other First World countries, when it clearly does.

www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

 

[Rustic]

Crazy people with guns kill people.

Crazy people must get back ground checked and keeped away from guns.

How do you find out if someone is crazy? How do you predict when someone will go crazy?

Best way to stop gun violence is to allow everyone to have a gun. Even a crazy person wouldn't try to pull something then.

We have the most guns in the world. Many places with few guns have much lower crime rates than us. When citizens arm up so do criminals. That is why our violent crime rate is increasing.

Law abiding citizens own guns to protect their property and life. Criminals obtain guns to kill and murder. There is a difference.

Law abiding until not. Criminals arm up because everyone else does. This leads to more death.

You are an enabler of violent behavior no doubt.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Best way to stop gun violence is to allow everyone to have a gun. Even a crazy person wouldn't try to pull something then.

We have the most guns in the world. Many places with few guns have much lower crime rates than us. When citizens arm up so do criminals. That is why our violent crime rate is increasing.

Law abiding citizens own guns to protect their property and life. Criminals obtain guns to kill and murder. There is a difference.

Law abiding until not. Criminals arm up because everyone else does. This leads to more death.

So if law abiding people are stripped of their guns criminals won't use them?

Really?

The chances are that if guns are illegal, and hard to get hold of, then criminals will be much more careful about their guns. The latter part is important. Right now there is such a massive supply of guns, criminals don't need to worry about losing a gun.

www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

 

[Rustic]

Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people
Since we can't ban people, we have to go after the guns

People with knives kill people
People with hammer kill people
People with hands kill people
people with feet kill people
people with baseball bats kill people

PEOPLE kill people
People have always killed people
People will always kill people

This is one of those things you need to accept, you know like gravity.

Picture this if you will.....
The Vegas massacre of 50+ people using a knife.
The Vegas massacre of 50+ people using a hammer.
The Vegas massacre of 50+ people using hands.
The Vegas massacre of 50+ people using feet.
The Vegas massacre of 50+ people using a baseball bat.

How about a bomb? Lol

 

[Rustic]

Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people
Since we can't ban people, we have to go after the guns

People with knives kill people
People with hammer kill people
People with hands kill people
people with feet kill people
people with baseball bats kill people

PEOPLE kill people
People have always killed people
People will always kill people

This is one of those things you need to accept, you know like gravity.

Picture this if you will.....
The Vegas massacre of 50+ people using a knife.
The Vegas massacre of 50+ people using a hammer.
The Vegas massacre of 50+ people using hands.
The Vegas massacre of 50+ people using feet.
The Vegas massacre of 50+ people using a baseball bat.

FBI: Hammers, Clubs Kill More People Than Rifles, Shotguns

And the worst mass hammer killing is?

In the grand scheme of things these shootings are an non-issue, Black on black violence crime in Chicago is much more deadly and they have extreme gun control there. That’s the reason for the high violent crime rate

 

[Rustic]

The freedom to continue living is an important one for me.

Why don't you live in jail? That's freedom to keep living and there are no guns in jail but those held by the government. Freedom to keep living. There you go.

No thanks. Tell me how less free Germany is.

First of all we don’t have any real freedom and individuality here, and Europe certainly has less… LOL