If God was so powerful,

[Caroljo]

That he/she created the earth in 6 days, why wouldn't he/she be powerful enough to stop destruction and hate? If God created all that is life, why in the world was he/she be helpless to stop Eve from biting the apple, and killing paradise?

I don't get it.

Partaking of the apple did not kill paradise, merely got humanity expelled from it. Eden was then hidden from humanity with an angel armed with a flaming sword so that no one might enter without permission.

God was also far from helpless but remember that God created humanity as a free willed companion in His image. This was a gift, but it was humanity that disobeyed God. You may not find it fare but that one act against God is what gives you knowledge enough to ask this question. I think that, to a degree, it was a good trade off. We may not be immortal but we are larger in number and we reason, see more openly than simply through the eyes of innocence.

Now as for God not destroying hate and what not. When you were a child everything was simple. You just loved everyone you were supposed to but did you really understand how special that love was? Without seeing children starving you don't feel the compassion to reach out as often. A pair of eyes on a half beaten puppy will melt the heart of even the most corrupt of business men. Without the bad the good looses some of its meaning, it doesn't end up being as important. You need bad things in the world to remember that life is precious and that you should reach out a kind and understanding hand whenever you can.

That was AWSOME! I don't think i've ever heard it quite that way! Thanks!!!

 

[jeffrockit]

What about the indigenous peoples across the world, most have never been introduced to the teachings of Jesus.

Try this

In their book Faith Comes by Hearing, Christopher Morgan and Robert Peterson write, "How could it be fair and just for those who have never even had a chance to hear the gospel, which is necessary for salvation, to be condemned to hell? The question sounds powerful, but behind it lie faulty assumptions." 1
What are these "faulty assumptions"? "The first mistaken assumption," continue Morgan and Peterson, "is that our condemnation is based on a rejection of the gospel. Scripture teaches that our condemnation is based on the fact that we are sinners, not because at some point in time we rejected the gospel … Furthermore, God's wrath is revealed against everyone who suppresses his truth revealed through creation … Strictly speaking, the Bible denies that there are persons who have never heard of God." 2
Morgan and Peterson go on to explain another faulty assumption, this one having to do with "a confusion of justice and mercy." 3 God is merciful in that He has provided a way of salvation via Christ for those who will accept Him. But God is also just in that unrepentance will not go unnoticed.

What About Those Who Have Never Heard?

 

[jeffrockit]

That he/she created the earth in 6 days, why wouldn't he/she be powerful enough to stop destruction and hate? If God created all that is life, why in the world was he/she be helpless to stop Eve from biting the apple, and killing paradise?

I don't get it.

Let me answer this in a logical manner:

If God created ever thing, then God created hatred, destruction and all the terrible things in this world. The rerason why is because God wanted these things to exist. Now why GOD wanted these things to exist is something I can not explain, but he wanted them to exist.

Think, If GOD did not want them to exist, then how did they come into being? Do you see a Quack-a-Dile(part duck, part crocodile)? The reason a Quack-a-dile does not exist because GOD does not want it to exists. Yet, He does want Ebola to exist because God sees good in the Ebola virus.

Do you not understand? Ebola Virus==GOOD--god created it. Quack-a-dile==Bad, GOD refuse to create it.

This is a much better answer:

Wanting to live his own way, according to what he thought was right, Man chose to disobey God

Man's choice resulted in the fall (sin).
Simply stated, sin is disobedience to God. He is the Creator and should be obeyed. Even more important, God is Himself the standard of what is right. Sin causes spiritual separation from God and physical death. Separation occurred because God is perfect and pure. His purity cannot dwell with sinfulness and His justice cannot allow it to go unpunished.
As a result of sin, the natural world was also cursed and began to die. The ground became less fertile and food became scarce. Man had to work harder to harvest much less. Mankind would also realize the effect that sin has on human relationships, leading to cruelty, murder, lust and causing disharmony within the family.

Mankind continues to sin, living in rebellion against God, the Creator. This is why the world is filled with suffering today. Man must take responsibility for destroying the perfection of God's creation.

Man Demonstrated His Choice of Rebellion - ChristianAnswers.Net

 

[AVG-JOE]

What about the indigenous peoples across the world, most have never been introduced to the teachings of Jesus.

Try this

In their book Faith Comes by Hearing, Christopher Morgan and Robert Peterson write, "How could it be fair and just for those who have never even had a chance to hear the gospel, which is necessary for salvation, to be condemned to hell? The question sounds powerful, but behind it lie faulty assumptions." 1
What are these "faulty assumptions"? "The first mistaken assumption," continue Morgan and Peterson, "is that our condemnation is based on a rejection of the gospel. Scripture teaches that our condemnation is based on the fact that we are sinners, not because at some point in time we rejected the gospel … Furthermore, God's wrath is revealed against everyone who suppresses his truth revealed through creation … Strictly speaking, the Bible denies that there are persons who have never heard of God." 2
Morgan and Peterson go on to explain another faulty assumption, this one having to do with "a confusion of justice and mercy." 3 God is merciful in that He has provided a way of salvation via Christ for those who will accept Him. But God is also just in that unrepentance will not go unnoticed.

What About Those Who Have Never Heard?

Interesting rationalization, but it still doesn't explain how the god of The Bible simply ignored the lives, loves, triumphs, tragedies and histories of 95% of the people he supposedly created in his image.

... not to mention the last 2,000 years of well documented history of the various leaders of Western 'Civilization' using his name to justify coercion, slavery, theft of homeland, murder, genocide, etc...

-Joe

 

[dynamitejack]

"Strictly speaking, the Bible denies that there are persons who have never heard of God."

The bible didn't know that there were people living in that Americas. So according to the bible all of the Native Americans denied God, as well as the Aztecs, the Incas, the Myans, the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Romans for some time denied God. To deny God is a ticket straight to hell, that is a lot of people that went to hell and I didn't even name half of the non-Christian peoples. There was a time in the world when there was no such thing as Christianity and to speak of monotheism would get one laughed at and thought of as crazy. Most of these civilizations lived and died before Christianity came to be.

Interesting rationalization, but it still doesn't explain how the god of The Bible simply ignored the lives, loves, triumphs, tragedies and histories of 95% of the people he supposedly created in his image.

... not to mention the last 2,000 years of well documented history of the various leaders of Western 'Civilization' using his name to justify coercion, slavery, theft of homeland, murder, genocide, etc...

-Joe

This is taken out of context but goes with Joe's point, Robert Velarde says:
...The answer to the question relates to God's nature, His revelation and our response. Biblically speaking, God is holy, just, unchanging and all-loving. This means that God will always do what is right.

Was it right for people to die in God's name? Those killed during the Salem witch trials were slaughtered in the name of God the crusades and what about the torture and death during the medieval, Spanish Portuguese and Roman inquisitions. Since God allowed them to happen does that make them "right"? I don't think that a loving God would allow deaths of his children in his name.

Please open your eyes and realize that religion is nothing more than a device used to control the weak minded, christianity has turned into a profit boat more than anything. Need proof? prayercross . c0m If there was a Jesus he would not want you to spend your money on Christian paraphinilia, he would want you to take your time and money and help people. You can feed an African child for a month for the $19.99 price they are asking for that holy piece of crap! Use your head, live your life to benefit humanity and don't live in fear of going to hell or heaven because when your short time on our planet is over you will be returned to the earth from which you came. If any people had religion figured out it was the native american's they took what was needed to survive and respected the earth for what it was.

 

[BrokenAngel]

God was also far from helpless but remember that God created humanity as a free willed companion in His image. ]/qupte]


So god is naive and easily manipulated- and would disobey any god who was greater still (since Man, in His image, was disobedient of authority {disobeyed God's commandment} prior to the introduction of sin)- yet he punished those who refuse to grovel at his feet and rules through fear?

You people make you god sound better and better as this thread goes...

This was a gift, but it was humanity that disobeyed God. You may not find it fare but that one act against God is what gives you knowledge enough to ask this question.

Really? I thought it wan intelligence and curiosity



What the fuck planet do you live on? There is nothing more needy, cruel, inhumane, or self-motivated than a child that has not been 'brainwashed' and taught modern ethics 9usually enforced via reward-punishment system of some sort)



If children were not starving, we would not need to feed them in the first place. Your circular reasoning merely shows your god to be incompetent, cruel, or both




... seriously, though- what planet are you on?

You need bad things in the world to remember that life is precious and that you should reach out a kind and understanding hand whenever you can.

so a 'perfect' world needs suffering.. then God did not create a 'perfect' world if Eden was as described. Please get your story straight

You have a bad habit of picking apart a statement rather than addressing it as a whole, and that is a general observation. When you seperate out bits and pieces it is easy to destroy any point. Again that observation is not directed to how you approached my comment entirely, but rather to how you and others seem to respond to a point you don't identify with.

That aside Eden was the only thing described as perfect. There is no such thing as a perfect world but then again humanity was not described as perfect even once in any text, Biblical or not. God gave humans a choice, to live with Him in the perfect world He created for them or to make the choice to live in a reality where they have their eyes more opened. He gave Adam and Eve the choice between innocence and intelligence and they chose ( or rather Eve chose for them in a way ) to know and understand. I have my story right, you just think it is rediculous so rather than respecting my opinion at all you have chosen to ridicule and make fun of it.

I responded to the original poster with my personal opinions and viewpoint on the question posed. You have no need, other than filling time or being a cruel person, to rip up my point of view in a mocking and rude manner. A number of your points were in line with my own, you were just too busy laughing at my faith to realize that.

 

[JBeukema]

You have a bad habit of picking apart a statement rather than addressing it as a whole

I challenge your premise, assumptions, and claims on all levels. I question the details because the premise is based upon them. It's how you examine the claim analytically and logically.

and that is a general observation. When you seperate out bits and pieces it is easy to destroy any point.

Not if it is logically sound logically and ideologically consitstent

Again that observation is not directed to how you approached my comment entirely, but rather to how you and others seem to respond to a point you don't identify with.

I do the same with points I agree with or would like to agree with

That aside Eden was the only thing described as perfect.

It was claimed that the world must have suffering to be perfect, for one cannot appreciate or enjoy joy without it. that is logically and ideologically contradictory when places beside claims that eden was perfect. Both cannot be true, for they are mutually exclusive. So, which is true- or is neither?

There is no such thing as a perfect world

yet you just claimed that eden was perfect.

but then again humanity was not described as perfect even once in any text, Biblical or not. God gave humans a choice, to live with Him in the perfect world He created

So you retract your earlier implications and claims that one cannot know what the good is without the bad?

for them or to make the choice to live in a reality where they have their eyes more opened.

No, he didn't. He commanded them to not eat, and lied to them, seeking to keep them unknowing and naive. The serpent told them the truth: that they would live and that their eyes would be opened that they would, like God, know both good and evil. That is what the bible says. If you pay attention, the true protagonist of the tale is no who you have been led to believe.

He gave Adam and Eve the choice between innocence and intelligence

No, he did not; the serpent did.

and they chose ( or rather Eve chose for them in a way ) to know and understand. I have my story right, you just think it is rediculous

No, it's contradictory.

so rather than respecting my opinion at all you have chosen to ridicule and make fun of it.

i have chosen to challenge your claims and show your conclusions to be self-contradicting.

I responded to the original poster with my personal opinions and viewpoint on the question posed. You have no need, other than filling time or being a cruel person, to rip up my point of view in a mocking and rude manner.

All I have done is introduce you to reason, intelligence, and reality. If those are too much for you to bear, I suggest crawling into a hole and reveling in delusion and fantasy as you were doing before we met.

Since I doubt you wish to read:

[youtube]TO5MytakLy8[/youtube]

 

[Gurdari]

This the "if God exists, why is there so much suffering in the world?" argument.

I'd look at it another way - If there is no God, why is there so much love and understanding in the world?

I would enjoy seeing an atheist define EVIL, and present the empirical evidence as to where the required information might have came from to standardize and calibrate just what establishes an act as being absolutely evil.

Evil: A vague, arbitrary notion applied to undesirable acts, behavior, attitudes, etc. according to the beholder.

And it really is not standardized...

 

[JBeukema]

This the "if God exists, why is there so much suffering in the world?" argument.

I'd look at it another way - If there is no God, why is there so much love and understanding in the world?

I would enjoy seeing an atheist define EVIL, and present the empirical evidence as to where the required information might have came from to standardize and calibrate just what establishes an act as being absolutely evil.

Evil: A vague, arbitrary notion applied to undesirable acts, behavior, attitudes, etc. according to the beholder.

And it really is not standardized...

 

[KittenKoder]

If a god is omnipotent, can it destroy itself?

 

[JBeukema]

If a god is omnipotent, can it destroy itself?

aawww man. i can't find the 'Superjesus' episode of moral orel to post here

 

[HUGGY]

If a god is omnipotent, can it destroy itself?

The kitten has a brain!