If God was so powerful,

[RodISHI]

god told adam that if he eats the hetero apple and bangs eve, he's booted from eden. pretty gay, huh?

You obviously are reading your own problems into the mix. The tree of knowledge is not an apple tree.

 

[AVG-JOE]

That he/she created the earth in 6 days, why wouldn't he/she be powerful enough to stop destruction and hate? If God created all that is life, why in the world was he/she be helpless to stop Eve from biting the apple, and killing paradise?

I don't get it.

Man was endowed with "free will". To the contrary of the message that atheism professes and propagates, Evil exists, therefore God cannot. The inverse is true, If evil actually exists in the world, and some things are indeed EVIL and not the way they should be.......then by Logic there must be a standard existing outside the realm of all that is natural to calibrate or measure the nature of evil....because EVIL does not exist in nature, it is only the human animal that is capable of evil actions. Thus, the question must be asked, where does man gain the knowledge to calibrate what is good or what is evil...if evil does not exist in nature? Can a snake be evil for acting the way it was designed or created? Is that snake considered evil for biting and injecting poison into the blood stream of a human that just happened to be danger close to that animal? Does not any action of evil have to come from "premeditation"? After all it is only man that has been endowed with the ability to reason His/Her own existence and mortality.

If anyone really believes in the message of secular humanism or 'naturalism' that declares that all life was created naturally from DEAD matter by random happenstance, (Even though there has never been a single OBSERVED or repeatable experiment that has shown that nature has that capability) there can be no standard of calibration....evil cannot be defined, as it is merely SUBJECTIVE to any natural need or impulse...even rape or murder can be justified if rationalized in the proper manner.

Bullshit.

Every 'evil' can be explained by natural disaster, normal wear and tear, incompetence, or greed.

This is not to say that rape can be justified... it is just another example of someone greedily wanting something and not giving a shit about who gets hurt in the process of their taking it.

Since 50% of the reasons for 'evil' are man-made, it makes me wonder anew about the whole "made in the image of God" thing.......

-Joe

 

[We Are They]

Joe, we ARE made in his image, he's a dirty old man who likes his women young and his drink old. Oh, I forgot, he hates gays too.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Being is great, because by being you are you, nothingness is not great, where we are going. So thank God for being.

W.

T.​

F.​

?​

 

[AVG-JOE]

Joe, we ARE made in his image, he's a dirty old man who likes his women young and his drink old. Oh, I forgot, he hates gays too.

If this average Joe is made in his image, he likes his women grown up and his beer and smoke fresh.

He also likes a lot of gays and bisexuals, but doesn't sleep with the boys.

-Joe

 

[garyd]

Tink you have to have free will to have real love. Free will almost always operates in opposition to God.

If you constantly clean up after your kids they never learn to clean up after themselves.

 

[Dr Grump]

This free will crap is such a bullshit argument it beggar's belief......

 

[Avatar4321]

This free will crap is such a bullshit argument it beggar's belief......

So there is no free will?

So if I beat the crap out of someone, I cant be blamed. its not my fault.

 

[Big Black Dog]

It's not wise to question God...

 

[Avatar4321]

It's not wise to question God...

I guess that depends how you define questioning God.

If by question God you mean, doubt He can accomplish what He says He will and treat HIs counsel with contempt, then I completely agree. It's foolish to ignore the advice of an all knowing benevolent being.

If by question God you mean, ask Him questions for better understanding, then I think its very wise to question God. Because how on earth do we learn if we dont ask questions?

"If any of you lack wisdom, let Him ask of God who gives to all men liberally and upbraideth not and It shall be given unto him. But ask in faith, nothing wavering."

 

[brewerboy]

That he/she created the earth in 6 days, why wouldn't he/she be powerful enough to stop destruction and hate? If God created all that is life, why in the world was he/she be helpless to stop Eve from biting the apple, and killing paradise?

I don't get it.

Free will is the simple answer

Nobody gets that either, though, so don't feel too bad about not getting it.

Unless you want to want to feel bad about not getting it, of course.

That Free will is a real bitch, isn't it?

Absolutely.

I think that "Bruce Almighty" hit that nail on the head as far as the whole "free will" thing is concerned.

 

[Dr Grump]

So there is no free will?

So if I beat the crap out of someone, I cant be blamed. its not my fault.

No, not really talking about that aspect of it. What's the point of giving us "free will", if we exercise that right and basically say "I don't believe who you are, please prove it", and God says "get lost", then where is the free will? It;s a fait acompli, because if I say I don't believe in a God, then I'm damned in hell forever if he exists. In other words, a God is saying "believe in me or else", which I take as a threat or at least coercion. Not free will at all....

 

[Amanda]

That he/she created the earth in 6 days, why wouldn't he/she be powerful enough to stop destruction and hate? If God created all that is life, why in the world was he/she be helpless to stop Eve from biting the apple, and killing paradise?

I don't get it.

I think the relationship between God and people in the Christian bible is sort of an analogy for parenthood. You can create a child but you can't control what they would do.

 

[amiam*]

That he/she created the earth in 6 days, why wouldn't he/she be powerful enough to stop destruction and hate? If God created all that is life, why in the world was he/she be helpless to stop Eve from biting the apple, and killing paradise?

I don't get it.

I think the relationship between God and people in the Christian bible is sort of an analogy for parenthood. You can create a child but you can't control what they would do.

How true!

 

[dynamitejack]

That he/she created the earth in 6 days, why wouldn't he/she be powerful enough to stop destruction and hate? If God created all that is life, why in the world was he/she be helpless to stop Eve from biting the apple, and killing paradise?

I don't get it.

Well the answer is, there is no such thing as the Christian God. Or an Islamic god or Egyptian gods or Geek gods or Aztec gods. Think about it Christianity, Islam and Judaism all share the same god but with different values, hell even some of the stories in their holy books are the same, such as the story of Joseph, same story told 3 different ways. Also the story of Noah was actually a story from the oldest known written work Gilgamesh, it was rewritten to make more sense for the time. I'm sure that as early as man could question the universe there has been some form of God. God makes people feel better about things they don't understand, like what happens after you die or why it rains.

 

[Caroljo]

That he/she created the earth in 6 days, why wouldn't he/she be powerful enough to stop destruction and hate? If God created all that is life, why in the world was he/she be helpless to stop Eve from biting the apple, and killing paradise?

I don't get it.

Well the answer is, there is no such thing as the Christian God. Or an Islamic god or Egyptian gods or Geek gods or Aztec gods. Think about it Christianity, Islam and Judaism all share the same god but with different values, hell even some of the stories in their holy books are the same, such as the story of Joseph, same story told 3 different ways. Also the story of Noah was actually a story from the oldest known written work Gilgamesh, it was rewritten to make more sense for the time. I'm sure that as early as man could question the universe there has been some form of God. God makes people feel better about things they don't understand, like what happens after you die or why it rains.

Sorry - Islam does NOT share the same God as christians and jews. They follow "allah" which is not our God. They believe also that Jesus was just a good profit, not the son of God. God promotes love and all you need is faith in Him to be saved. allah tells his believers to murder & lie. Not the same at all!
As for free will, if God didn't give us free will, we would be like robots. Everyone doing the same thing, acting the same way, not making our own decisions. God wants us to make our own decisions...He has his laws that he's given us, and it's up to us if we want to follow them or go our own way. This way He knows who really loves Him.

 

[Avatar4321]

No, not really talking about that aspect of it. What's the point of giving us "free will", if we exercise that right and basically say "I don't believe who you are, please prove it", and God says "get lost", then where is the free will? It;s a fait acompli, because if I say I don't believe in a God, then I'm damned in hell forever if he exists. In other words, a God is saying "believe in me or else", which I take as a threat or at least coercion. Not free will at all....

You might have a point if your description was at all accurate about what is going on.

1) God proves Himself all the time.
2) Those who actually disbelieve dont tell God they dont believe who they are. They simply live as though He isnt.
3) He doesnt tell anyone to get lost. In fact, He is always calling for people to come to Him and be healed from their pains.
4) Your view of hell is Naive, though understandable considering the prevelant cutural view of hell in catholic/protestant thought. None of it is accurate though.
5) You seem to think that if someone threatens you, you dont have free will. Even if God was threatening you, which He isnt, you are wrong. If someone threatens to kill you if you don't do something, have you lost your free will? No. You can still make a choice.

If God didnt provide us with the principles of happiness, we would have no free will. We need to be able to have a choice that has differing consequences or free will is meaningless. Without the ability to choose evil, there can be no good and vice versa. Without bitter there can be no sweet. Without cold there can be no hot.

There has to be an opposite for agency to exist. If God said no matter what you choose to do youll be happy, you'd have no free will. Because it's the consequences that create free will, not the initial choices.

 

[Avatar4321]

Sorry - Islam does NOT share the same God as christians and jews. They follow "allah" which is not our God. They believe also that Jesus was just a good profit, not the son of God. God promotes love and all you need is faith in Him to be saved. allah tells his believers to murder & lie. Not the same at all!
As for free will, if God didn't give us free will, we would be like robots. Everyone doing the same thing, acting the same way, not making our own decisions. God wants us to make our own decisions...He has his laws that he's given us, and it's up to us if we want to follow them or go our own way. This way He knows who really loves Him.

You're right, the english speaking Christians have merely adopted the English pagan diety Gott as they were converted to Christianity. In reality, the being we know as God would be called El or Elohiem after the Hebrew term for it. Clearly, Allah is merely an Arabic derivation of El/Elohiem.

In other words, if you think you are worshiping a different God, then its probably not the muslims who are worshiping the wrong one. Personally, I dont think it matters what language or title you use for God. Simply because someone might have an incorrect perception of the Father doesnt mean they dont worship Him. I think Father would gladly accept the praise of those who serve Him with pure intent even if incorrectly. Because then repentence is possible. I think He very much prefers them to those who would judge the hearts of others and be stubborn. Because its easier to correct those who are sincere than those who are stubborn of heart.

 

[AVG-JOE]

That he/she created the earth in 6 days, why wouldn't he/she be powerful enough to stop destruction and hate? If God created all that is life, why in the world was he/she be helpless to stop Eve from biting the apple, and killing paradise?

I don't get it.

I think the relationship between God and people in the Christian bible is sort of an analogy for parenthood. You can create a child but you can't control what they would do.

Sure you can. If you have a couple of million dollars in your will, your kids may briefly rebel, but eventually they'll come around to your way of thinking... even if it means voting republican.

-Joe

 

[JBeukema]

Sorry - Islam does NOT share the same God as christians and jews. They follow "allah" which is not our God.

and 'god' is not the god of the jews, who follow El- or is it YHWH- or is it....

They believe also that Jesus was just a good profit, not the son of God.

just like the jews

allah tells his believers to murder & lie.

you mean like Yahweh? it sounds to me like the Jews and the Muslims are on the dame page and it's you who's reading from a different book

[

1) God proves Himself all the time.

Such as?

2) Those who actually disbelieve dont tell God they dont believe who they are. They simply live as though He isnt.

and what is 'living as though he isn't'?

3) He doesnt tell anyone to get lost. In fact, He is always calling for people to come to Him and be healed from their pains.

The bible says god chooses who is darwn to him- and he can hate children forever before they're born (Esau)

You seem to think that if someone threatens you, you dont have free will. Even if God was threatening you, which He isnt,

'Bow down or be destroyed/suffer forever' isn't a threat?

you are wrong. If someone threatens to kill you if you don't do something, have you lost your free will? No. You can still make a choice.

The choice is meaningless if coerced

If God didnt provide us with the principles of happiness, we would have no free wil

How so?

We need to be able to have a choice that has differing consequences or free will is meaningless.

The choice is not 'god or no god'- the choice you offer is suffering or submission. Did Blacks freely choose to stay on the plantations? No! They chose to avoid the gods and the whips. To say that men 'choose' the christian god ios to say that Blacks chose slavery

Without the ability to choose evil, there can be no good and vice versa. Without bitter there can be no sweet. Without cold there can be no hot.

It is possible to lose the ability to taste one and still enjoy the other simply because itis enjoyable and causes pleasure. Certain neurological disorders make people unable to feel physical pain, misinterpreting the signals as pleasure. Can they never enjoy physical pleasure or sex because they feel no physical pain? You didn't think before you posted, did you?

There has to be an opposite for agency to exist.

Not so. What is the opposite of sweet. The opposite of a dog? the opposite of electromagnetism? False dichotomies and further fallacies will not be accepted

If God said no matter what you choose to do youll be happy, you'd have no free will. Because it's the consequences that create free will, not the initial choices.

So, you contend that it is the coercion that makes the choice meaningful? if I put a gun to your head, does that make your choice to suck my dick meaningful or is the 'choice' negated by the fact that you really had no choice and did so under duress? Come over and let's try...