If Germany and Japan had some strategy like the Allies did

[JakeStarkey]

Most people shy away from the concept of racism because we were taught that it's wrong. Fair enough but emotion doesn't overcome history. Institutional racism was rampant in the European And American culture for decades before WW2. The US had little in the way of what we call an intelligence network before WW2. It might seem strange but the US relied on stupid ignorant racist opinions regarding the Japanese military. Credible influential people in the US government really thought the Japanese had a genetic eye and balance problem and were poor at math skills. The prevailing thought was that the Japanese were incapable of building a ship that would float or a plane that would fly. The belief was in place right up to that Sunday morning in early December 1941. The bottom line is that FDR wanted a limited engagement with the Japanese in order to get into the real war with Germany.

You are fine until your conclusion, and give absolutely no evidence for it. In fact, FDR would have rather had no war with the Japanese in order to have a real war with Germany.

On racism in western culture before WWII, boy, you hit the nail on the head.

 

[dilloduck]

Most people shy away from the concept of racism because we were taught that it's wrong. Fair enough but emotion doesn't overcome history. Institutional racism was rampant in the European And American culture for decades before WW2. The US had little in the way of what we call an intelligence network before WW2. It might seem strange but the US relied on stupid ignorant racist opinions regarding the Japanese military. Credible influential people in the US government really thought the Japanese had a genetic eye and balance problem and were poor at math skills. The prevailing thought was that the Japanese were incapable of building a ship that would float or a plane that would fly. The belief was in place right up to that Sunday morning in early December 1941. The bottom line is that FDR wanted a limited engagement with the Japanese in order to get into the real war with Germany.

Why are you limiting racism to European and American cultures? Asians and Africans weren't overjoyed to see whites either.

 

[regent]

The real question FDR faced with the Japanese was, should America continue to supply that island-nation the raw materials to conduct war on the Chinese or cut off supplies? Of course, FDR's decided to cut off suppolies, was that the right decision?
Another decision at the end of the war, one that created some future problems: should America aid the European nations to retake their Pacific colonies or allow the colonies to become independent?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Great questions. FDR's issue was that America was overwhelming isolationistic during the 1930s right up to the point Hitler invaded Poland. FDR, Stimson, and Hull, supported eventually by Congress, decided that Japanese imperialism in China and Southeast Asia could not be tolerated, so the American exports were embargoed to Japan. Japan, refusing to accept third class nation status, went to war against the West.

Vietnam War was a direct result of your second question.

 

[Saigon]

Another decision at the end of the war, one that created some future problems: should America aid the European nations to retake their Pacific colonies or allow the colonies to become independent?

Interesting that you phrase this as a decision to be taken by colonisers - and not one taken by the colonised.

Mozambique, Ghana, Algeria, Angola, Viet Nam and Malaysia became independent through armed uprising and the threat of armed uprising - not purely and simply because the west decided it didn't want them anymore.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Saigon misunderstood the question. Regent was simply asking whether America's support for European re-colonialization should have happened.

 

[Saigon]

Saigon misunderstood the question. Regent was simply asking whether America's support for European re-colonialization should have happened.

I got that - but I thought the subtext was also interesting.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The subtext was not the point, but, yes, it is interesting.

 

[ginscpy]

Up until the point Hitler attacked the USSR, the Communists here at home were staunchly resisting Roosevelt's efforts to assist Great Britain in the war. Suppose Hitler had instead concentrated on finishing the Brits off, one day during the Battle of Britain the Brits were down to just six Spitfires, stayed away from attacking the Soviet Union and allowed the American Communists to continue retstraining Roosevelt's efforts.
Japan would still have attacked Pearl Harbor and Roosevelt could have responded exactly how he did with no change in the historical record until the Marines landed on Tarawa. After the stuggle to take Guadalcanal, the debacle, the losses, on Tarawa would have been too much for the people to take, especially with the Communists continually agitating for withdrawal and surrender in the background. They would have forced Roosevelt's hand to instead sue for peace. Unfortunately for Hitler, after June 22, 1941, every Communist in America wanted Roosevelt to declare war against Germany.
Some inner idea or concept, I hate to use the word 'force', drove Hitler to behave impetuously and hastily in planning his next moves. There are numerous records of his telling associates and acquaintances he had to move quickly for he knew his time on Earth was sharply limited. That was part of the reason behind his attacking the USSR and the leaving the Brits dazed, bleeding, on the ropes, ready to collapse, but still unbeaten.

It would have been a different world if Hitler had not decided to attack the USSR

And if there had not been a coup in Yugoslavia that caused Hitler to post-pone theattack on the Soviet Union for a number of crucial weeks.

They would have been in the Kremilin in October otherwise.

 

[ginscpy]

No question.

Hitler thought he wouldtake care ofBritain later - after he disposed of the SovietUnion.

 

[ginscpy]

I would root for Germany to win ove the SU if I was alive then which I wasnt

 

[JakeStarkey]

Most of the world though Germany would win and many felt fascism should destroy communism, particularly those like you who are partial to fascism.

 

[demiurge]

Actually, for a bunch of racists that despised each other on a fundamental level, Germany and Japan worked amazingly well together. They simply never got into the same area with each other, though not for want of trying.

The reason Germany was capable of rearming after Versailles was because of the Japanese. They were on the Allied side in WWI, but had grander ambitions for empire in the 30s. They cut a deal for german tech. In return, they told the Nazis when the British and French inspectors were coming. Germany wouldn't have been nearly as ready for their own plans of dominance if they constantly had weapons inspectors hovering over them, as was intended.

The Japanese received several techs from the Luftwaffe, including more than a dozen models of various German planes. This helped the Japanese air force, though most of their improvements were home made. The design for a Daimler Benz engine was used in the Tony, for example. And the 20mm cannons the Japanese put in their later anti-bomber attack fighters was a German design.

The Germans also were paid for designs for carbonization planets - this allowed the Japanese to create synthetic oil.

The Japanese sent plans for their carrier flagship the Akagi to Germany. It was an important design consideration for what would have been Germany's first aircraft carrier, the Graf Zepplin. That was about 2/3rds finished but ultimately abandoned. They also sent sea planes to Germany, and gave technical modificatons for the development of carrier planes, which the Japanese excelled at.

Perhaps most importantly, Germany passed on intelligence to Japan which formed the basis for the attack on Singapore. Germany captured defense plans for the British Empire in SE Asia, including details on the weakness of its overseas bases there. A large reason for Japan's amazing success against the British was because of detailed knowledge of their defenses given to them by Germany.

Strategically, there was a lot of pie in the sky thoughts at linking up, but little success. The initial concept for Rommel was to overrun Egypt and continue through the Middle East to Asia. Not a very realistic plan and not a detailed strategy. The later attacks towards the oil fields in Baku were also intended to cut through Asia toward India. Hitler was nothing if not grandiose.

Both Japan and Germany helped support the Indian National Army in an attempt to turn India against the British Raj.

While I'm unaware of any direct military cooperation in fighting between the Japanese and Germans, the Japanese and German controlled Vichy French forces fought against a British and Free French invasion of Madagascar. The Brits brought overwhelming forces, the Japanese had submarines in the area that assisted Vichy.

 

[mememe]

And Japan never did declare war on the Soviet Union even after Hitler invaded them.

Because in 1930-s the USSR beat Japan twice and forced to sign a "peace" agreement.

 

[mememe]

Up until the point Hitler attacked the USSR, the Communists here at home were staunchly resisting Roosevelt's efforts to assist Great Britain in the war. Suppose Hitler had instead concentrated on finishing the Brits off, one day during the Battle of Britain the Brits were down to just six Spitfires, stayed away from attacking the Soviet Union and allowed the American Communists to continue retstraining Roosevelt's efforts.
.

Hold on a second!

I don't know much about "American Communists", but it is no secret that US financial and industrial elites supported Hitler and politically, and financially, and with military equipment/raw materials until 1944.
I can't think there were many "communists" among them!

 

[mememe]

It would have been a different world if Hitler had not decided to attack the USSR

He could not "not attack the USSR". The Soviet Union was his prime target.

But, the situation would've been different if Hitler had not decide to attack France in 1940.