If everyone is special, no one is special

[Nienna]

I know you're not deserving of my not so nice words... and I'm sorry for ticking you off... but I just wanted to show why schools are picking multiple valedictorians and salutorians. I'm certain your sister was worthy of her title as co-salutorian... but these are the issues schools are faced with every day. I find it interesting that a bunch of people who were just screaming about "mediocrity" and lowered expectations were now defending your sister even though she didn't have the second highest GPA at the end of the year.

Amazing how personal it becomes when it's the sister of someone you know on a message board... but teachers who deal with these kids every day are supposed to somehow be "more objkective"

Thank you for explaining yourself. I do get very defensive about people I love.

I think what everyone is disagreeing about is the "lowered expectations" part. They are saying the standards should not be changed just bc someone does not meet them. In my sister's case, the standards were changed bc that other girl did not meet them. She whined about the method that had always been used bc she wanted to get something out of it.

This also applies to grades. In my daughter's case, she is not meeting the standards in math. Yet she is still bringing home As & Bs on her report card. They changed the standard (I am presuming that standard would be ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE of the material), just bc Abbie does not meet it. SIf she doesn't know her math facts; I wish they would fail her, instead of changing what she needs to know to "achieve" an A.

This is the discrepency, here. Lowering the bar to suit a personal action/desire/ability vs. Setting the bar and allowing students to vault over it or miss it as they are able.

 

[jasendorf]

I'm having trouble believing somebody can be so thick-headed.

(sigh).

As much as I could go on and on about a girl screwing another girl, I'll focus on the facts:

Fact 1: School AWARDS PRIZES (titles) At the CONCLUSION of the THIRD QUARTER. That is the Rule Of School. That's how they OPERATE. The DECISION on who get what is Determined WHEN? C'mon. Say it. UPON THE CONCLUSION OF THE THIRD QUARTER.

Which is why I asked if that was the rule or if it was just a "tradition"... she has yet to answer that question.

Fact 2: mom4's Sister was in SECOND PLACE - was awarded the SECOND PLACE title because at the TIME THE TITLE WAS GIVEN, she was in 2nd PLACE.

Fact 3: The other girl was NOT awarded a title because she was in THIRD.

Fact 4: AFTER the Judging was OVER - (Judging = deciding who gets what title) - AFTER that CONCLUDED (Concluded is very close in meaning to the word FINISHED), the girl's GPA when higher.

Fact 5: That girl whined and bitched AFTER THE FACT

Fact 6: The School CHANGED THEIR POLICY to protect that girl's FEELINGS - nevermind the fact they helped that girl lose part of her soul.


Dude - If you believe the situation was handled well, then you MUST be in support of the NFL overturning the Superbowl victory of the Steelers and sending the Trophy to the Seahawks. I mean, AFTER the deciding period was FINISHED it was CLEAR the seahawks played better; but were victims of bad-judgement calls on behalf of the officiating crew.

This isn't about judgement calls... this is about the score at the end of the game. If it were up to you, all football games would end at the third quarter.

 

[jasendorf]

ONE TENTH of a percentage point. It was VERY close.

But the whole point of this thread is that there has to be WINNERS and LOSERS... doesn't matter if it was one-MILLION DOLLARS!!! MUWHAHAHAH... oh, wait... that's Dr. Evil...

You've just exposed precisely why schools are going with multiple valedictorians and salutorians...

 

[dmp]

This isn't about judgement calls... this is about the score at the end of the game. If it were up to you, all football games would end at the third quarter.

I'm going to try to explain this as if to my son, who is 4.


If the Referees say the game ends in the third quarter, and one team - the team with the lead BELIEVES them, AND they are proclaimed the VICTOR, then it's simply NOT right for the referees to CHANGE the rules because ONE team stayed on the field and kept playing and scored another Touchdown.


Are you really - I mean, seriously, Are you REALLY having trouble with that VERY VERY VERY VERY simple concept?

They CHANGED THE STANDARD AFTER THE FACT. What is your problem? seriously? If you have a learning disability it'd be best to fess-up because it'd grant you mountains of grace. If you're purposely arguing for the sake of arguing then you are an ass.

 

[jasendorf]

Thank you for explaining yourself. I do get very defensive about people I love.

As you should. Once again, my apologies for getting so argumentative.

I think what everyone is disagreeing about is the "lowered expectations" part. They are saying the standards should not be changed just bc someone does not meet them. In my sister's case, the standards were changed bc that other girl did not meet them. She whined about the method that had always been used bc she wanted to get something out of it.

This also applies to grades. In my daughter's case, she is not meeting the standards in math. Yet she is still bringing home As & Bs on her report card. They changed the standard (I am presuming that standard would be ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE of the material), just bc Abbie does not meet it. SIf she doesn't know her math facts; I wish they would fail her, instead of changing what she needs to know to "achieve" an A.

This is the discrepency, here. Lowering the bar to suit a personal action/desire/ability vs. Setting the bar and allowing students to vault over it or miss it as they are able.

What did your daughter's teacher say when you asked them about this discrepency? I mean, I'm assuming you called your child's teacher to find out what the deal was... right?

 

[Nienna]

It was a "rule" AND a "tradition." It was "A usual, customary, or generalized course of action or behavior" decided upon by those in authority. This makes it a "rule." It was a tradition bc it had always been done that way.

 

[dmp]

It was a "rule" AND a "tradition." It was "A usual, customary, or generalized course of action or behavior" decided upon by those in authority. This makes it a "rule." It was a tradition bc it had always been done that way.

Careful - too many 'more-than-6-letter words' there.

 

[Nienna]

This isn't about judgement calls... this is about the score at the end of the game. If it were up to you, all football games would end at the third quarter.

If it were decided before-hand by the NFL that football games would be 3 periods instead of four, I see no problem with deciding the score at the end of the third. The fourth period is still good for watching those muscley guys run around in tight pants.

 

[CSM]

If it were decided before-hand by the NFL that football games would be 3 periods instead of four, I see no problem with deciding the score at the end of the third. The fourth period is still good for watching those muscley guys run around in tight pants.

I think they should let the cheerleaders play the 4th quarter!

 

[jasendorf]

I'm going to try to explain this as if to my son, who is 4.


If the Referees say the game ends in the third quarter, and one team - the team with the lead BELIEVES them, AND they are proclaimed the VICTOR, then it's simply NOT right for the referees to CHANGE the rules because ONE team stayed on the field and kept playing and scored another Touchdown.


Are you really - I mean, seriously, Are you REALLY having trouble with that VERY VERY VERY VERY simple concept?

They CHANGED THE STANDARD AFTER THE FACT. What is your problem? seriously?

As I asked at the very beginning of this, and I'll quote, "What "rule" did she want changed? I see a "tradition" up there... are they one and the same?" I still don't have an answer for that. I wanted (and still want) to know if the STANDARD for salutorian at taht school was the student with the second highest GPA of the graduating class or if it was the student with the second highest GPA before all the classes were over. Tradition be damned. I want to know the standard... not the tradition.


If you have a learning disability it'd be best to fess-up because it'd grant you mountains of grace. If you're purposely arguing for the sake of arguing then you are an ass.

Dude... just because you can't understand that different words like "tradition" and "rule" have different meanings... don't cry to me about YOUR learning disability.

 

[dmp]

If it were decided before-hand by the NFL that football games would be 3 periods instead of four, I see no problem with deciding the score at the end of the third. The fourth period is still good for watching those muscley guys run around in tight pants.

Sure - like this guy?

 

[dmp]

Dude... just because you can't understand that different words like "tradition" and "rule" have different meanings... don't cry to me about YOUR learning disability.

Except mom4 CLEARLY via the CONTEXT of what she wrote AND the DEFINITION OF THE FUCKING WORD showed what she meant.

The SCHOOL HAD A RULE/POLICY of basing the award on GPA at the CONCLUSION OF THE THIRD QUARTER.


Stop being a retard.

 

[Nienna]

What did your daughter's teacher say when you asked them about this discrepency? I mean, I'm assuming you called your child's teacher to find out what the deal was... right?

That's a long story... she had a HORRIBLE teacher last year. I was in communication with her AND the principal all year long. Basically, that's WHY they changed her grade, bc they thought that's what I wanted. NOOOOOO! I wanted to know what the material was BEFORE the tests, so that she could actually STUDY! Imagine that! But her teacher was too busy explaining to her 9 yo students why it was okay that she was unmarried and pregnant (not that any of the students needed to know ANYTHING about her personal life!!!) to remember to send home study sheets. And then there's the "no homework" policy at that school. Very frustrating situation. It's like pulling teeth to find out what goes on in these classrooms, and I kind of don't blame them bc I know a lot of parents would actually be satisfied with changing the kid's grade.

I ended up just looking up the 3rd grade standards and making up worksheets for her at home.

 

[jasendorf]

It was a "rule" AND a "tradition." It was "A usual, customary, or generalized course of action or behavior" decided upon by those in authority. This makes it a "rule." It was a tradition bc it had always been done that way.

It's a rule BECAUSE it's a tradition? No dice. Rules have form. They are written and stated and delineated. Traditions are usually formless and, although generally accepted, are not written nor set in stone. Rules have defined standards. If your sister's school had a RULE, a defined, written statement which said that the salutorian was the student with the second highest GPA at the end of the third quarter, in place... I believe they wouldn't have had any problem with telling the other girl to go take a hike.

But, really... we should be past this particular discussion. Rules and traditions are not interchangeable. Bar none. There's a reason they have separate entries in the dictionary.

 

[dmp]

There's a reason they have separate entries in the dictionary.

Hey cupcake - ONE word can MEAN more than one thing - THAT is why there are 'multiple definitions' listed under the word 'rule'. There's a reason kids shouldn't eat paint chips - you are the end-result of somebody who likely wasn't given that block of instruction.

 

[Nienna]

Sure - like this guy?

Eh? Not so much.

Anyway, I'd take the extra cuddle time on the couch. Football IS the most snuggly spectator sport.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

So, high school ends after the third quarter? Damn, now I see where the problem in schools are... right here with dmp and his low expectations of students to work through the whole year. I guess when all you expect of them is three-quarters worth of work, why would you expect them to be anything BUT lazy once they enter the work force?

 

[Said1]

But he soooooo hungry, it's hard not too.,

 

[dmp]

I know Clay - it's weird...but she said it best:

...(we) can only explain why 2+2=4 so many times (to jasendorf)...

 

[The ClayTaurus]

I know Clay - it's weird...but she said it best:

I feel very strange telling someone to not feed a troll. What's happening to me?