then we would only have to do away with the birth and give xmas back to the pagans .
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If A Tomb Was Found...?
- Thread starter AVG-JOE
- Start date
JBeukema
Rookie
- Banned
- #42
the whole point of the scriptures which is to get people to actually know God
What makes you think God rests in the texts chosen by the Nicene Council?
The thing is, we have to learn the same way Peter learned. Revelation.
That's also how Muhammad learned.
the Bible is written by the hands of men inspired of God
Who decides which texts are inspired by God? have you read the pre-Jewish accounts and the texts suppressed by the early Church?
AllieBaba
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- Oct 2, 2007
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- #43
" The opinion of the archaeological expert who knows these ossuaries best
According to The Jerusalem Post, Amos Kloner, the archeologist who officially oversaw the work at the tomb starting in 1980 and has published detailed findings on its contents, dismissed the claims: It makes a great story for a TV film, but it's impossible... There is no likelihood that Jesus and his relatives had a family tomb. They were a Galilee family with no ties in Jerusalem. The Talpiot tomb belonged to a middle-class family from the 1st century CE.
2. The names are common
Despite the arguments of the filmmakers that this was an unusual set of names, these names were extremely common — then and now. The name combination "Jesus son of Joseph" was so widespread that it has in fact been already discovered on other first-century ossuaries over the years. Archaeologist Kloner told the Jerusalem Post, Those were the most common names found among Jews in the first centuries BCE and CE. At least three other ossuaries have been found inscribed with the name Jesus and countless others with Joseph and Mary. There are at least two other "Jesus" characters in the New Testament alone. There are at least six distinct "Marys" in the New Testament: The mother of Jesus, Mary Magdalene, the sister of Lazarus, the wife of Cleopas, the mother of John Mark, and a Christian in Rome. So these ossuaries could belong to any of them — or none of them. What we know for certain is that there were many first-century families with these exact same names. "
" Pfann is even unsure that the name "Jesus" on the caskets was read correctly. He thinks it's more likely the name "Hanun." William Dever, an expert on near eastern archaeology and anthropology, who has worked with Israeli archeologists for five decades, said specialists have known about the ossuaries for years. The fact that it's been ignored tells you something, said Dever, professor emeritus at the University of Arizona. It would be amusing if it didn't mislead so many people. "
http://www.losttombofjesuschrist.com/
According to The Jerusalem Post, Amos Kloner, the archeologist who officially oversaw the work at the tomb starting in 1980 and has published detailed findings on its contents, dismissed the claims: It makes a great story for a TV film, but it's impossible... There is no likelihood that Jesus and his relatives had a family tomb. They were a Galilee family with no ties in Jerusalem. The Talpiot tomb belonged to a middle-class family from the 1st century CE.
2. The names are common
Despite the arguments of the filmmakers that this was an unusual set of names, these names were extremely common — then and now. The name combination "Jesus son of Joseph" was so widespread that it has in fact been already discovered on other first-century ossuaries over the years. Archaeologist Kloner told the Jerusalem Post, Those were the most common names found among Jews in the first centuries BCE and CE. At least three other ossuaries have been found inscribed with the name Jesus and countless others with Joseph and Mary. There are at least two other "Jesus" characters in the New Testament alone. There are at least six distinct "Marys" in the New Testament: The mother of Jesus, Mary Magdalene, the sister of Lazarus, the wife of Cleopas, the mother of John Mark, and a Christian in Rome. So these ossuaries could belong to any of them — or none of them. What we know for certain is that there were many first-century families with these exact same names. "
" Pfann is even unsure that the name "Jesus" on the caskets was read correctly. He thinks it's more likely the name "Hanun." William Dever, an expert on near eastern archaeology and anthropology, who has worked with Israeli archeologists for five decades, said specialists have known about the ossuaries for years. The fact that it's been ignored tells you something, said Dever, professor emeritus at the University of Arizona. It would be amusing if it didn't mislead so many people. "
http://www.losttombofjesuschrist.com/
Last edited:
Didn't St. Helena already settle that?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgRnVhbfIKQ]YouTube - Mount St. Helens Erupting[/ame]
Wow. That was kool.
AllieBaba
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- Oct 2, 2007
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- #45
"Now Israeli authorities have indicted the owner of the "James Ossuary" as a serial forger. The indictment has further polarized opposing sides in an increasingly vitriolic dispute.
Magazine editor Hershel Shanks, the most outspoken advocate of the box's possible authenticity, published an article in Biblical Archaeology Review detailing mistakes in what he called a "badly bungled" investigation by the Israel Antiquities Authority.
The response was immediate. Uzi Dahari, deputy director of the Antiquities Authority, dismissed Shanks as "totally crazy" and his claims as "pathetic." Dahari denounced ossuary owner Oded Golan as a "scoundrel" and a career criminal who lives off the proceeds of doctored artifacts."
The Ossuary of James
Magazine editor Hershel Shanks, the most outspoken advocate of the box's possible authenticity, published an article in Biblical Archaeology Review detailing mistakes in what he called a "badly bungled" investigation by the Israel Antiquities Authority.
The response was immediate. Uzi Dahari, deputy director of the Antiquities Authority, dismissed Shanks as "totally crazy" and his claims as "pathetic." Dahari denounced ossuary owner Oded Golan as a "scoundrel" and a career criminal who lives off the proceeds of doctored artifacts."
The Ossuary of James
- Thread starter
- #46
" The opinion of the archaeological expert who knows these ossuaries best
According to The Jerusalem Post, Amos Kloner, the archeologist who officially oversaw the work at the tomb starting in 1980 and has published detailed findings on its contents, dismissed the claims: It makes a great story for a TV film, but it's impossible... There is no likelihood that Jesus and his relatives had a family tomb. They were a Galilee family with no ties in Jerusalem. The Talpiot tomb belonged to a middle-class family from the 1st century CE.
2. The names are common
Despite the arguments of the filmmakers that this was an unusual set of names, these names were extremely common then and now. The name combination "Jesus son of Joseph" was so widespread that it has in fact been already discovered on other first-century ossuaries over the years. Archaeologist Kloner told the Jerusalem Post, Those were the most common names found among Jews in the first centuries BCE and CE. At least three other ossuaries have been found inscribed with the name Jesus and countless others with Joseph and Mary. There are at least two other "Jesus" characters in the New Testament alone. There are at least six distinct "Marys" in the New Testament: The mother of Jesus, Mary Magdalene, the sister of Lazarus, the wife of Cleopas, the mother of John Mark, and a Christian in Rome. So these ossuaries could belong to any of them or none of them. What we know for certain is that there were many first-century families with these exact same names. "
" Pfann is even unsure that the name "Jesus" on the caskets was read correctly. He thinks it's more likely the name "Hanun." William Dever, an expert on near eastern archaeology and anthropology, who has worked with Israeli archeologists for five decades, said specialists have known about the ossuaries for years. The fact that it's been ignored tells you something, said Dever, professor emeritus at the University of Arizona. It would be amusing if it didn't mislead so many people. "
The Truth Behind the Lost Tomb of Jesus
I hate to point out the obvious, but once again we have someone disagreeing with the conclusion, not the fact of a 1st century tomb with 'those names'.
I remain open to the possibility that common names appearing in this combination is uncommon to say the least, and fascinating to the open minded.
- Thread starter
- #48
I never disagreed with the existence of the bone box itself. They do exist, lots of them, with those names.
My contention is that it hasn't been established that it's Christ's. Because of course it isn't.
That's a valid opinion that I happen to disagree with. My contention is that it's both possible and intriguing. I also believe that sweeping it under the rug is both political and short-sighted. This is worthy of study.
If an ancient family tomb was found, in Jerusalem, containing several boxes of human bones, among them one clearly marked "Mary" and another marked "Jesus, son of Joseph", would you question Christianity? Is the 'empty tomb' part of the story a requirement?
YouTube - Lost Tomb of Jesus - Trailer
I'd wonder why a nice Jewish couple gave their kid a Puerto Rican name.
AllieBaba
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Yup.
And I have never said we shouldn't study archaeological finds. I know we will never find the bones of Christ, but that doesn't mean I think there's anything wrong with research.
I'm of the attitude that every time a hoax is exposed, as this was, there is the potential of bringing more people to Christ as they realize the evidence supports his existence as the Son of God, rather than the opposite.
And I have never said we shouldn't study archaeological finds. I know we will never find the bones of Christ, but that doesn't mean I think there's anything wrong with research.
I'm of the attitude that every time a hoax is exposed, as this was, there is the potential of bringing more people to Christ as they realize the evidence supports his existence as the Son of God, rather than the opposite.
- Banned
- #52
then we would only have to do away with the birth and give xmas back to the pagans .Actually, it would only prove his physical body remained and discredit one of the versions of the story to appear in the commonly accepted texts. It would say nothing wither way regarding any other supernatural claims.
wow , there goes easter
We never gave it up in the first place. Oh sure, we have had no problem with christians putting their story over our holiday....we're inclusive. But it was a bit much when we've had to pretend to buy the virgin birth thingee in order to not be killed.
TheBrain
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- Apr 26, 2011
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- #54
then we would only have to do away with the birth and give xmas back to the pagans .wow , there goes easter
We never gave it up in the first place. Oh sure, we have had no problem with christians putting their story over our holiday....we're inclusive. But it was a bit much when we've had to pretend to buy the virgin birth thingee in order to not be killed.
You personally have never had to pretend shit to keep from being killed. Sensationalize much?
You know, I grew up with a lot of different versions of Christianity when I was young. Because of what each and everyone of them did was to try to tell me that the way I beleived before moving in was wrong, and I had to believe as they did (orphaned at 8 and in foster care until 16).
Because of that, I turned my back on Christianity, but I never turned my back on God. Why? There were WAAAAAYYYYY too many instances in my life where a certain piece of synchronicity showed up in my life (that's what I call coincidences), and I knew that God was watching out for me and asking me what I wanted to do.
In 1994, I started to research Eastern philosophy, which led me to Zen, which in turn led me to Taoist philosophy. From then on, I was a Taoist, because when they refer to the Tao, they're actually talking about Father (which is what I call God, because that's what Yeshua taught when he told people how to pray). From then on, I started to look for where various sects of Christianity agreed, then I would compare their truth to Tao, and was able to sort though many of the various lies or simple untruths.
A few years back, I started to look into Jewish theology, and found out that it was remarkably similar to what Lao-Tzu wrote in the Tao Te Ching.
I also watch an obscene amount of History and Science channels, because I really like learning new things. Many of the programs I watched showed how the Bible had been disturbingly re-edited by the KJV and the Niecine councils, and lots of things that should have been included weren't. Check out the original Book of Daniel sometime on a scholar site called Sacred Texts Archive.
I also continued on seeing where various faiths were similar, and I noticed an interesting thing about Yeshua and Buddha. They both taught basically the same thing.
I also looked into various faiths and checked out how they handled sin. Interestingly enough, all 3 (Judaism, Christianity and Eastern Philosophy) have a pretty similar way of handling it.
If you sin in Judaic theology, you are supposed to take an offering to the Temple, where the priests would make the sacrifice for you and then you left. Know what they did with the offerings? They used them to feed the priests.
Yeshua was a good Jewish boy, that's why He was in Jerusalem during Passover. He'd come to celebrate the holiday and make the required offerings and prayers. But......here's the trick.........He didn't come necessarily for the whole world, He came for those who were Gentiles, so that they could have the same connection with Father that He has. And, because He understood that an offering had to be made to Father, He decided to take on the job of saving everyone who WASN'T Jewish (remember, the Jews already had a special connection to Father), and offered Himself up as an offering for the rest of the world.
Incidentally, it's kinda covered the same way in Eastern philosophy. Monks go into town, sit on a mat with a bowl in front of them and people come by and give them something to eat. In their beliefs, when you give a monk some food, he then eats the food and your sins are gone, although, they do still have temples where you can go and make offerings.
It's also been said (in the Bible), that he who saves one life, saves the whole world. Now, if we could all realize what Yeshua was actually doing, we'd all end up in Heaven (which is Father's original plan).
But, since there are so many similarities in the various religions, I don't think that God wants you to worship Him in one specific way.
And.......FWIW.........religion is kinda like spiritual kindergarten. It's still up to you to make the appropriate choices and act accordingly.
And Father's rules are kinda simple, if you need a refresher, check out the 7 Noahide commandments, or the 10 Commandments. There are only a few don'ts and a couple of reminders.
What do you do if you can't do those few things? Everything else.
Because of that, I turned my back on Christianity, but I never turned my back on God. Why? There were WAAAAAYYYYY too many instances in my life where a certain piece of synchronicity showed up in my life (that's what I call coincidences), and I knew that God was watching out for me and asking me what I wanted to do.
In 1994, I started to research Eastern philosophy, which led me to Zen, which in turn led me to Taoist philosophy. From then on, I was a Taoist, because when they refer to the Tao, they're actually talking about Father (which is what I call God, because that's what Yeshua taught when he told people how to pray). From then on, I started to look for where various sects of Christianity agreed, then I would compare their truth to Tao, and was able to sort though many of the various lies or simple untruths.
A few years back, I started to look into Jewish theology, and found out that it was remarkably similar to what Lao-Tzu wrote in the Tao Te Ching.
I also watch an obscene amount of History and Science channels, because I really like learning new things. Many of the programs I watched showed how the Bible had been disturbingly re-edited by the KJV and the Niecine councils, and lots of things that should have been included weren't. Check out the original Book of Daniel sometime on a scholar site called Sacred Texts Archive.
I also continued on seeing where various faiths were similar, and I noticed an interesting thing about Yeshua and Buddha. They both taught basically the same thing.
I also looked into various faiths and checked out how they handled sin. Interestingly enough, all 3 (Judaism, Christianity and Eastern Philosophy) have a pretty similar way of handling it.
If you sin in Judaic theology, you are supposed to take an offering to the Temple, where the priests would make the sacrifice for you and then you left. Know what they did with the offerings? They used them to feed the priests.
Yeshua was a good Jewish boy, that's why He was in Jerusalem during Passover. He'd come to celebrate the holiday and make the required offerings and prayers. But......here's the trick.........He didn't come necessarily for the whole world, He came for those who were Gentiles, so that they could have the same connection with Father that He has. And, because He understood that an offering had to be made to Father, He decided to take on the job of saving everyone who WASN'T Jewish (remember, the Jews already had a special connection to Father), and offered Himself up as an offering for the rest of the world.
Incidentally, it's kinda covered the same way in Eastern philosophy. Monks go into town, sit on a mat with a bowl in front of them and people come by and give them something to eat. In their beliefs, when you give a monk some food, he then eats the food and your sins are gone, although, they do still have temples where you can go and make offerings.
It's also been said (in the Bible), that he who saves one life, saves the whole world. Now, if we could all realize what Yeshua was actually doing, we'd all end up in Heaven (which is Father's original plan).
But, since there are so many similarities in the various religions, I don't think that God wants you to worship Him in one specific way.
And.......FWIW.........religion is kinda like spiritual kindergarten. It's still up to you to make the appropriate choices and act accordingly.
And Father's rules are kinda simple, if you need a refresher, check out the 7 Noahide commandments, or the 10 Commandments. There are only a few don'ts and a couple of reminders.
What do you do if you can't do those few things? Everything else.
AllieBaba
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- #60
Christians and most other religious types for that matter have proven they have no problem denying even the most basic components of science.
I'm sure this would just be another instance if such an event occurred.
Er..the event we're talking about is fraud for which the perp did time.
Try again. I'd say this is evidence of the anti-Christians clinging to straws that have already been chopped up.
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