If 0+0=0 and 0-0=0, 0x0=0, Why is 0/0 indeterminate?

Math also has a subroot of the art of argument called logic...Music..It's a great source of base information...While a hair dryer may give you split ends...
So I hear. A lot of folks on my mom's side were born musical--could pick up an instrument and play without reading a note of music. Could transpose instantly to key to a singer's voice. And they were all puzzled at my complete idiocy with math. My mother soundly trounced me at chess the second time we played, as soon as I showed her how the pieces move. Logic, numbers, I was not so endowed.
I actually had always tried to stay away from math after basic algebra in 8th grade, and work on artsy fartsy and sports...Yet, I always found myself doing technical work...
So does all the talk of something from nothing make sense to you, based on your technical understanding? A couple people have indicated the mystery is in the nature of energy itself, which is electricity, yes?
Since I was in the play in college, and heard it 5 nights a week for 6 weeks,,,yes,, it means that if you invest nothing , you will get nothing in return..Invest being that one must spend money, or time to make something flourish kinda thingy-mabob..
Were you Caius? You would make a good Caius.
I was an extra...And a stage hand...
 
Try not to get too technical, but can anyone explain this in common English?
I went home and thought about it last night, but for the life of me, I can't understand why if it applies to division, it doesn't apply to the rest. What is different about division that doesn't allow that?
nothing that is divided into nothing is God...in the Calculator it comes up as "E" which stands for "emmanuel" which means God is with us...my calculator then plays this ...its startling

I hope that was tongue in cheek. If not, I'm not laughing at you or your calculator.
 
So I hear. A lot of folks on my mom's side were born musical--could pick up an instrument and play without reading a note of music. Could transpose instantly to key to a singer's voice. And they were all puzzled at my complete idiocy with math. My mother soundly trounced me at chess the second time we played, as soon as I showed her how the pieces move. Logic, numbers, I was not so endowed.
I actually had always tried to stay away from math after basic algebra in 8th grade, and work on artsy fartsy and sports...Yet, I always found myself doing technical work...
So does all the talk of something from nothing make sense to you, based on your technical understanding? A couple people have indicated the mystery is in the nature of energy itself, which is electricity, yes?
Since I was in the play in college, and heard it 5 nights a week for 6 weeks,,,yes,, it means that if you invest nothing , you will get nothing in return..Invest being that one must spend money, or time to make something flourish kinda thingy-mabob..
Were you Caius? You would make a good Caius.
I was an extra...And a stage hand...
Most fun I had in a play was stage hand. Except the time Dorothy was making out in the bathroom with one of her many suitors when she was supposed to be entering stage right.
 
I actually had always tried to stay away from math after basic algebra in 8th grade, and work on artsy fartsy and sports...Yet, I always found myself doing technical work...
So does all the talk of something from nothing make sense to you, based on your technical understanding? A couple people have indicated the mystery is in the nature of energy itself, which is electricity, yes?
Since I was in the play in college, and heard it 5 nights a week for 6 weeks,,,yes,, it means that if you invest nothing , you will get nothing in return..Invest being that one must spend money, or time to make something flourish kinda thingy-mabob..
Were you Caius? You would make a good Caius.
I was an extra...And a stage hand...
Most fun I had in a play was stage hand. Except the time Dorothy was making out in the bathroom with one of her many suitors when she was supposed to be entering stage right.
That usually happened during off broadway musical productions, Shakespeare is too dark..
 
I actually had always tried to stay away from math after basic algebra in 8th grade, and work on artsy fartsy and sports...Yet, I always found myself doing technical work...
So does all the talk of something from nothing make sense to you, based on your technical understanding? A couple people have indicated the mystery is in the nature of energy itself, which is electricity, yes?
Since I was in the play in college, and heard it 5 nights a week for 6 weeks,,,yes,, it means that if you invest nothing , you will get nothing in return..Invest being that one must spend money, or time to make something flourish kinda thingy-mabob..
Were you Caius? You would make a good Caius.
I was an extra...And a stage hand...
Most fun I had in a play was stage hand. Except the time Dorothy was making out in the bathroom with one of her many suitors when she was supposed to be entering stage right.
I got to play the King Of Troy in a Trojan War play in 6th Grade.
 
You can think of it as two polynomials, one dividing the other. The ratio of the two polynomials is the system output. The numerator polynomial is the forward behavior of the system, and the denomerator polynomial is the feedback behavior of the system, a memory, if you like. Each of the polynomials are linear combinations of the system input raised to various powers. This model describes every system in the universe generally. To calculate the physical poles of the system, you equate the enumerated result of the denominator polynomial to zero, i.e. you assume that you are inside a singularity of the system. You work backwards from this zero equation to find out what sort of system inputs could be capable to produce the singularity. So to answer your question in short, you don't do the division by zero but assume it then work backwards from that assumption to find the input values that can cause it.
Are you an engineer? Quite awesome how the rules of math get more involved than James Joyce.

Well I wrote it from the scientific point of view, but yes you would do the same in an engineering problem too only there your goal would be to figure out your best system parameters instead of diagnosing for the inputs.

And I agree that it is maths where you can travel beyond the limits of human imagination. :)


This budding Mathematician is super glad he logged on today. :beer:
Math is its own language with its own grammatical, spelling and punctuation rules and various levels of vocabulary. Once you master it, it sounds as if takes you on a Magical Mystery Tour as fascinating as some of the poets and the story tellers do for me.
English language --- math
Two different ways to explore the same world. Cool beans folks. I never really thought of it that way before.


I dropped out of Junior High when I was 16. I had all the answers and everyone else in the world was stupid. Something about my understanding of Existence has been pulling on me for a long time now, never satisfied with anything I've learned.

After my last deployment in 2011, the insomnia drove me to try watching nerdy science documentaries to help me sleep. My dumbass started with How the Universe Works, and my insomnia has never gotten better. Now I stay up all night watching them for entertainment.

Then, last year, after maybe two or three years of stewing on the idea, I decided that the only way I was going to understand anything (without simply repeating what educated people already know), was to learn the fundamentals of the very small, so I could one day perhaps comprehend the very large.

In spite of my general stupidity, I've always been somewhat of a natural at math. So, here I am, in my third semester, majoring in Mathematics, waiting to minor in Physics this winter when I finish my Associates. I never once expected to be carrying a steady 4.0 GPA, but my motivation hasn't been this strong since I first felt the call to arms.
Congrats on making it to Junior High at age 16.
 
Are you an engineer? Quite awesome how the rules of math get more involved than James Joyce.

Well I wrote it from the scientific point of view, but yes you would do the same in an engineering problem too only there your goal would be to figure out your best system parameters instead of diagnosing for the inputs.

And I agree that it is maths where you can travel beyond the limits of human imagination. :)


This budding Mathematician is super glad he logged on today. :beer:
Math is its own language with its own grammatical, spelling and punctuation rules and various levels of vocabulary. Once you master it, it sounds as if takes you on a Magical Mystery Tour as fascinating as some of the poets and the story tellers do for me.
English language --- math
Two different ways to explore the same world. Cool beans folks. I never really thought of it that way before.
So does electrical and electronics...
Math is the language of science, no? All I know is not to grab a plugged in hair dryer while in the tub.
No.

English, Russian, French, and Italian are the languages of Science.

Math is a mental exercise related to counting made from definitions, such as 0 = 0, 0 + 1 = 1, 1 + 1 = 2 etc.

Although in base 2, the smallest base, binary, 1 + 1 = 10.

It all depends on your definitions.
 
I really liked that not-so-subtle dig.
So where did the Universe come from when there was nothing in the beginning? Not a sermon, just a question?


What is truly astounding is how closely the biblical version of events parallels what modern science believes.

Now...about the origin of the universe.....and the fact that modern science now accepts the very same order of events as Genesis.....

1. God’s first command in Genesis is “Let there be light.” Nor is this the only introduction of light in the Genesis creation account, but it is the first, it represents the beginning of the formation of our solar system. And that was ‘The Big Bang’…some 13,700 million years ago. Quite an event…it lasted just 10 to the minus 35th seconds, beginning the universe, generating time and space, as well as all the matter and energy that the universe would ever, ever, contain! Big Bang…explosion….energy….light. But no atoms to form the sun for some time. Light…but no sun? So says science. And so says Genesis. Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” chapter two.

a. For reference, Genesis 1, verses 1-4: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.



2. Modern science has largely revealed the earth’s history with respect to the land and the seas. Coincidently, the first chapter of the Bible relates a formation, a creation narrative, strangely similar to scientific understanding.


a. Genesis 1: 6-10…”And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dryland appear: and it was so. And God called the dry landEarth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it wasgood.


b. “The formation of the sea as well as the land is chosen as the second stage in the creation on the Bible’s first page. Modern science reveals that land and sea certainly were in place before the next stage in the scientific account of the history of the universe.” Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” p.54. What a coincidence….or confluence.


Curious, the author of Genesis lived in a landlocked region; and Moses wandered in the desert, not along the coast. Yet…sea and land appear in this prominent position in Genesis. Must be a coincidence….



3. The opening page of Genesis asserts that plant life appeared after the seas were formed, and names specifically, grass, herbs and fruit trees. According to the author of Genesis, this is the stage where life actually begins: this is the first mention life of any kind. Plant life. Yet, the simple forms of life that are considered plant life were not discovered until a couple of millennia after Genesis was completed. So…how come Genesis mentions grass, herbs, and fruit trees at precisely this moment on the creation narrative? Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” chapter four.


a. Genesis 1: 11-12 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed,and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


b. “ From about 400 million years back to 600 million years, all kinds of complex multicellular life would have been confined to the waters of the earth….Our world's ecosystems depend upon photosynthesis to construct the fuel that all life runs on; in an ancient world with conditions similar to today's, you would need plants (as organisms that can make complex "fuel" molecules using simple building blocks and energy available from the environment, plants are known as one type of autotrophs, or "self-feeders") to evolve first, or there would be no bottom link to the food chain.” Biology of Animals & Plants - Origins & History of Life on Earth



4. Track the events in the creation account of Genesis and it’s amazing how closely the events conform to the current view of modern science. An explosion- the universe – oceans/land - plants- …And next, in verse 20, we find: And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.


Kind of unusual…since the author of Genesis, and, if we are to believe that the first one to speak those words, Moses, didn’t really live in a habitat that one might call ‘sea side.’


Would have been understandable if this space in the Bible had, instead, have focused on the numbers of land mammals, birds, or insects found in ancient Israel, wouldn’t it? But, instead, marine organisms are specifically named: ‘Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life,…’


Wouldn’t it be interesting if science find lots and lots of marine organisms extant at this point? Imagine if Genesis actually parallels the history of life on earth as expounded by science. Be a heck of a coincidence.

a. A truly important development took place some 521 million years ago, in the geological period known as the Cambrian. “The most abundant and diverse animals of Cambrian time were the trilobites. Trilobites had long antennae, compound eyes, many jointed legs, and a hard exoskeleton like many of their modern arthropod relatives, such as lobsters, crabs, and insects. The Cambrian is sometimes called the "Age of Trilobites"…” Redirect


b. No earlier fossils were found during Darwin’s lifetime: “If the theory [evolution] be true it is indisputable that before the lowest Cambrian stratum was deposited ... the world swarmed with living creatures. [Yet] to the question why we do not find rich fossiliferous deposits belonging to these earliest periods. . . I can give no satisfactory answer. The case at present must remain inexplicable.” http://www.paleosoc.org/Oldest_Fossil.pdf

....life at this stage, about 500 million years ago, was entirely marine.

How could the Genesis writer have gotten this right?

That writer…he’s landlocked, knows little of diversity….what are the odds that ‘chance’ is the answer?


What are the odds?




5. The sequence of events from the creation of the universe, to the present, begin with great explosion that produces the universe, including the earth. The earth cools enough for oceans to form. The first life is plant life, able to photosynthesize, and add oxygen to the atmosphere. All sorts of simple non-plants fill the seas, most wormlike, with soft bodies. Along come the trilobites, hugely advanced, with hard bodies…and most amazingly, with true eyes! This makes them the primary predators….but, imposes enormous evolutionary pressure on the other organisms. The result is the Cambrian explosion, lots of small organisms with defensive armor and hard exoskeletons, some 521 million years ago. So says modern science.


a. “…Genesis shows remarkable accuracy when compared to the scientific story of life’s evolutionary journey. Here, the Genesis writer envisioned great creatures evolving from those tiny Cambrian forms, eventually making their way out of the sea….Genesis seems to have picked out all the events of the highest order of importance, and put them in the right order….I don’t know the odds against such a parallel- against making a successful guess at the scientific orthodoxy of three thousand year into the future from a knowledge base of nothing- but they must be extraordinarily long.” Parker, Op. Cit., p.163-164.


b. An interesting sidelight is the ‘evolution of the Bible’ itself. Christians have incorporated a great deal of science’s process. Early in the 20th century, the Scofield Reference Bible was published. This was a new version of the King James Bible with which added a note to Genesis, suggesting what is called the “gap theory.’ It allows that millions of years could have passed between God’s creation of the heavens and the earth, thereby freeing Genesis from the literal six-day process. “What it left was a series- the same series- of timeless events; and it is these that match the scientific account of life’s history.” Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” p. 160.


6. Unavoidable is the recognition that, once the restrictions due to the ‘six-day’ view are removed, the order of events established by modern science conform to the sequence in the first chapter of Genesis, written millennia earlier: light from an explosion (the Big Bang), universe/earth formed, the seas from the cooling earth, plants as the first life forms; abundant sea life (the Cambrian explosion), the (evolution) of the flora and fauna we see today. Neat, eh?

Lucky guess by the author of the creation account of Genesis?


7. If it is not evidence for the God, then the author of Genesis 1, or Moses, perhaps, must have understood that the universe formed first, then the seas appeared on earth, and that life forms were photosynthetic. Following that, he had to have realized that an eye evolved in an early animal in the geological past, which triggered the evolution of all the major groups of animals that exist today. Still further, he must have felt that all of this occurred in the seas, before animals moved onto land, and only when they did move out of the water did mammals and birds evolve.
See Parker's "The Genesis Enigma"



The Old Testament was written, although not compiled, almost three millennia ago. It is extraordinary that the writer of the creation account in Genesis, chapter one, got it right in his exposition of the series of events: his sequence turns out to be scientifically accurate in terms of contemporary knowledge.


Wow! What an incredibly lucky guess! What a considerable stroke of good fortune!


The alternative explanation is divine intervention.
That IS fascinating. Eastern spiritual thought also seems to intuitively understand particle physics, the cosmic dance of the universe. This is my (probably cracked) theory: Humankind has been on this Earth for a couple hundred thousand years and we are finding evidence of older and older civilizations every year. I believe that at one time there were civilizations as advanced as ours in their understanding of science and they were so far back in time that evidence of their existence has vanished from the record. It lives on, though, in the oldest of the stories.
Hmmmmmm.................. We would have found the equivalent of their Coke bottles. But most of our ancestors were just as smart as us, just had not yet developed writing to communicate from generation to generation.
You think we would have found their Coke bottles? I'm not so sure. But the Old People knew stuff, that's for sure.
I have looked at many pictures of the Andean stone walls, some of the temples in Egypt, and the stone circles of Europe. And wondered at the accomplishments of our ancestors, how did they do it? Yet, in many places we have found their tools. They used what we would consider crude tools very intelligently. They organized people very well, considering the number of people that was required to do those projects, and that they required food and shelter. But if they had had any technology like we have today, we would have found it. The same way we find their stone tools that were damaged in use, or simply lost.
 
This is in response to the deeply indoctrinated disciples that believe matter can come from nothing? Good luck with that, you're better off with a Moonie.


I really liked that not-so-subtle dig.
So where did the Universe come from when there was nothing in the beginning? Not a sermon, just a question?


What is truly astounding is how closely the biblical version of events parallels what modern science believes.

Now...about the origin of the universe.....and the fact that modern science now accepts the very same order of events as Genesis.....

1. God’s first command in Genesis is “Let there be light.” Nor is this the only introduction of light in the Genesis creation account, but it is the first, it represents the beginning of the formation of our solar system. And that was ‘The Big Bang’…some 13,700 million years ago. Quite an event…it lasted just 10 to the minus 35th seconds, beginning the universe, generating time and space, as well as all the matter and energy that the universe would ever, ever, contain! Big Bang…explosion….energy….light. But no atoms to form the sun for some time. Light…but no sun? So says science. And so says Genesis. Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” chapter two.

a. For reference, Genesis 1, verses 1-4: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.



2. Modern science has largely revealed the earth’s history with respect to the land and the seas. Coincidently, the first chapter of the Bible relates a formation, a creation narrative, strangely similar to scientific understanding.


a. Genesis 1: 6-10…”And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dryland appear: and it was so. And God called the dry landEarth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it wasgood.


b. “The formation of the sea as well as the land is chosen as the second stage in the creation on the Bible’s first page. Modern science reveals that land and sea certainly were in place before the next stage in the scientific account of the history of the universe.” Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” p.54. What a coincidence….or confluence.


Curious, the author of Genesis lived in a landlocked region; and Moses wandered in the desert, not along the coast. Yet…sea and land appear in this prominent position in Genesis. Must be a coincidence….



3. The opening page of Genesis asserts that plant life appeared after the seas were formed, and names specifically, grass, herbs and fruit trees. According to the author of Genesis, this is the stage where life actually begins: this is the first mention life of any kind. Plant life. Yet, the simple forms of life that are considered plant life were not discovered until a couple of millennia after Genesis was completed. So…how come Genesis mentions grass, herbs, and fruit trees at precisely this moment on the creation narrative? Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” chapter four.


a. Genesis 1: 11-12 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed,and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


b. “ From about 400 million years back to 600 million years, all kinds of complex multicellular life would have been confined to the waters of the earth….Our world's ecosystems depend upon photosynthesis to construct the fuel that all life runs on; in an ancient world with conditions similar to today's, you would need plants (as organisms that can make complex "fuel" molecules using simple building blocks and energy available from the environment, plants are known as one type of autotrophs, or "self-feeders") to evolve first, or there would be no bottom link to the food chain.” Biology of Animals & Plants - Origins & History of Life on Earth



4. Track the events in the creation account of Genesis and it’s amazing how closely the events conform to the current view of modern science. An explosion- the universe – oceans/land - plants- …And next, in verse 20, we find: And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.


Kind of unusual…since the author of Genesis, and, if we are to believe that the first one to speak those words, Moses, didn’t really live in a habitat that one might call ‘sea side.’


Would have been understandable if this space in the Bible had, instead, have focused on the numbers of land mammals, birds, or insects found in ancient Israel, wouldn’t it? But, instead, marine organisms are specifically named: ‘Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life,…’


Wouldn’t it be interesting if science find lots and lots of marine organisms extant at this point? Imagine if Genesis actually parallels the history of life on earth as expounded by science. Be a heck of a coincidence.

a. A truly important development took place some 521 million years ago, in the geological period known as the Cambrian. “The most abundant and diverse animals of Cambrian time were the trilobites. Trilobites had long antennae, compound eyes, many jointed legs, and a hard exoskeleton like many of their modern arthropod relatives, such as lobsters, crabs, and insects. The Cambrian is sometimes called the "Age of Trilobites"…” Redirect


b. No earlier fossils were found during Darwin’s lifetime: “If the theory [evolution] be true it is indisputable that before the lowest Cambrian stratum was deposited ... the world swarmed with living creatures. [Yet] to the question why we do not find rich fossiliferous deposits belonging to these earliest periods. . . I can give no satisfactory answer. The case at present must remain inexplicable.” http://www.paleosoc.org/Oldest_Fossil.pdf

....life at this stage, about 500 million years ago, was entirely marine.

How could the Genesis writer have gotten this right?

That writer…he’s landlocked, knows little of diversity….what are the odds that ‘chance’ is the answer?


What are the odds?




5. The sequence of events from the creation of the universe, to the present, begin with great explosion that produces the universe, including the earth. The earth cools enough for oceans to form. The first life is plant life, able to photosynthesize, and add oxygen to the atmosphere. All sorts of simple non-plants fill the seas, most wormlike, with soft bodies. Along come the trilobites, hugely advanced, with hard bodies…and most amazingly, with true eyes! This makes them the primary predators….but, imposes enormous evolutionary pressure on the other organisms. The result is the Cambrian explosion, lots of small organisms with defensive armor and hard exoskeletons, some 521 million years ago. So says modern science.


a. “…Genesis shows remarkable accuracy when compared to the scientific story of life’s evolutionary journey. Here, the Genesis writer envisioned great creatures evolving from those tiny Cambrian forms, eventually making their way out of the sea….Genesis seems to have picked out all the events of the highest order of importance, and put them in the right order….I don’t know the odds against such a parallel- against making a successful guess at the scientific orthodoxy of three thousand year into the future from a knowledge base of nothing- but they must be extraordinarily long.” Parker, Op. Cit., p.163-164.


b. An interesting sidelight is the ‘evolution of the Bible’ itself. Christians have incorporated a great deal of science’s process. Early in the 20th century, the Scofield Reference Bible was published. This was a new version of the King James Bible with which added a note to Genesis, suggesting what is called the “gap theory.’ It allows that millions of years could have passed between God’s creation of the heavens and the earth, thereby freeing Genesis from the literal six-day process. “What it left was a series- the same series- of timeless events; and it is these that match the scientific account of life’s history.” Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” p. 160.


6. Unavoidable is the recognition that, once the restrictions due to the ‘six-day’ view are removed, the order of events established by modern science conform to the sequence in the first chapter of Genesis, written millennia earlier: light from an explosion (the Big Bang), universe/earth formed, the seas from the cooling earth, plants as the first life forms; abundant sea life (the Cambrian explosion), the (evolution) of the flora and fauna we see today. Neat, eh?

Lucky guess by the author of the creation account of Genesis?


7. If it is not evidence for the God, then the author of Genesis 1, or Moses, perhaps, must have understood that the universe formed first, then the seas appeared on earth, and that life forms were photosynthetic. Following that, he had to have realized that an eye evolved in an early animal in the geological past, which triggered the evolution of all the major groups of animals that exist today. Still further, he must have felt that all of this occurred in the seas, before animals moved onto land, and only when they did move out of the water did mammals and birds evolve.
See Parker's "The Genesis Enigma"



The Old Testament was written, although not compiled, almost three millennia ago. It is extraordinary that the writer of the creation account in Genesis, chapter one, got it right in his exposition of the series of events: his sequence turns out to be scientifically accurate in terms of contemporary knowledge.


Wow! What an incredibly lucky guess! What a considerable stroke of good fortune!


The alternative explanation is divine intervention.
That IS fascinating. Eastern spiritual thought also seems to intuitively understand particle physics, the cosmic dance of the universe. This is my (probably cracked) theory: Humankind has been on this Earth for a couple hundred thousand years and we are finding evidence of older and older civilizations every year. I believe that at one time there were civilizations as advanced as ours in their understanding of science and they were so far back in time that evidence of their existence has vanished from the record. It lives on, though, in the oldest of the stories.
Hmmmmmm.................. We would have found the equivalent of their Coke bottles. But most of our ancestors were just as smart as us, just had not yet developed writing to communicate from generation to generation.

Maybe they didn't have written language because everyone just typed on their smartphones and forgot how to use a pencil. lol
 
LOL If anyone depended on me to get anything done with a smartphone, they would be sadly disappointed. Unless my grandson was around.

A mathematician, eh. I envy you. Fascinated with math, but not good at it. Got straight A's in algebra, geometry, and trig. Then crashed in Calculus. C's and low B's were the best I could do. Tried Linear Algebra, completely crashed and burned. My major is Geology, and, over a period of 40+ years, have accumulated about 2/3 rd's of the credits needed for a degree. As soon as I retire, at 73 I work as a millwright in a steel mill, I plan to go to school full time. Not attending at present as I am on a rotating shift.

One thing about working on education as an older person is how much you can see of the application of what you are learning. Directly out of high school, you have a problem seeing the importance of what you are learning. Your horizons are not just broad enough yet.
 
Are you an engineer? Quite awesome how the rules of math get more involved than James Joyce.

Well I wrote it from the scientific point of view, but yes you would do the same in an engineering problem too only there your goal would be to figure out your best system parameters instead of diagnosing for the inputs.

And I agree that it is maths where you can travel beyond the limits of human imagination. :)


This budding Mathematician is super glad he logged on today. :beer:
Math is its own language with its own grammatical, spelling and punctuation rules and various levels of vocabulary. Once you master it, it sounds as if takes you on a Magical Mystery Tour as fascinating as some of the poets and the story tellers do for me.
English language --- math
Two different ways to explore the same world. Cool beans folks. I never really thought of it that way before.


I dropped out of Junior High when I was 16. I had all the answers and everyone else in the world was stupid. Something about my understanding of Existence has been pulling on me for a long time now, never satisfied with anything I've learned.

After my last deployment in 2011, the insomnia drove me to try watching nerdy science documentaries to help me sleep. My dumbass started with How the Universe Works, and my insomnia has never gotten better. Now I stay up all night watching them for entertainment.

Then, last year, after maybe two or three years of stewing on the idea, I decided that the only way I was going to understand anything (without simply repeating what educated people already know), was to learn the fundamentals of the very small, so I could one day perhaps comprehend the very large.

In spite of my general stupidity, I've always been somewhat of a natural at math. So, here I am, in my third semester, majoring in Mathematics, waiting to minor in Physics this winter when I finish my Associates. I never once expected to be carrying a steady 4.0 GPA, but my motivation hasn't been this strong since I first felt the call to arms.
Congrats on making it to Junior High at age 16.
Stop being such a know it all snot.
 
So does all the talk of something from nothing make sense to you, based on your technical understanding? A couple people have indicated the mystery is in the nature of energy itself, which is electricity, yes?
Since I was in the play in college, and heard it 5 nights a week for 6 weeks,,,yes,, it means that if you invest nothing , you will get nothing in return..Invest being that one must spend money, or time to make something flourish kinda thingy-mabob..
Were you Caius? You would make a good Caius.
I was an extra...And a stage hand...
Most fun I had in a play was stage hand. Except the time Dorothy was making out in the bathroom with one of her many suitors when she was supposed to be entering stage right.
I got to play the King Of Troy in a Trojan War play in 6th Grade.
Cool beans. Did you have a dramatic death scene?
 
LOL If anyone depended on me to get anything done with a smartphone, they would be sadly disappointed. Unless my grandson was around.

A mathematician, eh. I envy you. Fascinated with math, but not good at it. Got straight A's in algebra, geometry, and trig. Then crashed in Calculus. C's and low B's were the best I could do. Tried Linear Algebra, completely crashed and burned. My major is Geology, and, over a period of 40+ years, have accumulated about 2/3 rd's of the credits needed for a degree. As soon as I retire, at 73 I work as a millwright in a steel mill, I plan to go to school full time. Not attending at present as I am on a rotating shift.

One thing about working on education as an older person is how much you can see of the application of what you are learning. Directly out of high school, you have a problem seeing the importance of what you are learning. Your horizons are not just broad enough yet.
Yes, I could never get into book theory algebra while in school. When I joined the Army and did missile systems the algebra finally made sense..
 
soooooooooooo i finally ask grumpy and he said 1.....i said no you are wrong......its indeterminate....he wants to know who is annoying me with math
 
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soooooooooooo i finally ask grumpy and he said 1.....i said no you are wrong......its indeterminate....he wants to know who is annoying me with math
Tell Grumpy he'd be right if he said any number to the zero power is 1.
Just show him the thread. That oughta shut him up; I know it did me.
 
I understand what you are getting at. I just has to be that way for equations and science to make sense.
Try not to get too technical, but can anyone explain this in common English?
I went home and thought about it last night, but for the life of me, I can't understand why if it applies to division, it doesn't apply to the rest. What is different about division that doesn't allow that?

It helps to think of the actual language and what you are doing: e.g., 6 / 3 = 2 means you have six apples and divide them into three groups, you have two apples in each group. But if you have six apples and divide them up into no groups ... and it becomes irrational because you can't divide something into nothingness.
Thanks!
I understand what you are getting at. It just has to be that way for equations and science to make sense.

Most folks will persecute you and say it makes, "logical" sense, but I think it makes just as much logical sense to say, if you have something to divide a number by nothing, that number doesn't exist, but that would be the function of multiplication, not division, but that is the function of "no" groupings. . .

No groupings, is, for me, zero. But you can't have that, when six times zero is also zero. I can divide six into nothingness, for me it isn't irrational. What are no groupings of six? Well, none. Zero. But then, how many times is six multiplied by zero? That too, is nothing. Both these equations can't be equal. This would cause a problem for advanced mathematicians and scientists.

I think when they rectify this, they will understand that all matter and energy are at a point of singularity. This is what makes faster than light travel possible, it is what enables telepathy, and how matter and energy are one. It is what is known as singularity. It is the riddle that is hidden. All points in the universe in the space time continuum are one. Space, in the third dimension, is an illusion, as is time, albeit persistent ones. We must use this as a convenient tool to make sense of our universe.

Just as in, if you try to divide a whole number integer by a negative, you get negative groupings? In arithmetic, we do allow dividing by negatives. When we try to "conceptualize" this, it makes about as much sense as dividing by zero. Again, this is necessary for doing advanced math and science.
OMG, someone who understands my question. It began out of a discussion about the universe being created from "nothing." To me, it is certainly "the riddle that is hidden."
Thank you so much for not calling me stupid this morning, Mr. Beale.

The basic building block of this universe is a string. The dimensions in which strings vibrate give shape and size to what we call space, gravity, energy, matter, etc. But, what is this string itself made up of? Nobody knows. Perhaps nothing. So, it is quite plausible that everything came from nothing. Or may be what we think is something is nothing.
 

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