Identity Crisis

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by clumzgirl, Nov 9, 2004.

  1. clumzgirl
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    clumzgirl Member

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    Ok, I'm going to stick my neck out here, so please be gentle!

    As a Christian, I'm confused about incorporating politics into the "lifestyle."
    As a conservative, I believe there have to be limits on people's behavior. Right?
    I mean, taking a liberal, anything-goes attitude is immoral and displeasing to God, right?
    Ok, so how does that jive with turning the other cheek, not judging people, etc.?

    For example, I have colleagues who are gay atheists. Do I avoid/condemn them because their lifestyle violates Christian laws? (That, and they piss me off with their hippie crap.) Or do I accept them because they, too, are God's children, whether they like it or not?

    Does this make any sense? I'm so confuuuuused!
     
  2. freeandfun1
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    freeandfun1 VIP Member

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    You hate the sin, but love the sinner. I believe in live and let live, but only because I know that I cannot change the minds/attitudes of many. So I live my life knowing that I can ask Christ to forgive me of my own sins and I pray for others. I will talk to those that are approachable, but if they don't want to hear it, I don't push it. Perhaps I should, but I figure they have had plenty of opportunity to know Christ and if they reject him, that is their choice. So I will be their friends, but I will also be praying for them hoping they find the right path.
     
  3. 5stringJeff
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    5stringJeff Senior Member

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    Here's how I see it:

    I know people who are gay (i.e. unrepenting sinners). I know people who sware all the time (i.e. unrepenting sinners). I know people who sleep around (i.e. unrepenting sinners). Yet I also see myself in the mirror every morning, knowing that, apart from Christ's forgiveness, I am just as guilty as those other people. That does two things for me: first, it makes me very thankful for God's forgiveness. Second, it gives me a passion (and compassion) for those who do not have that forgiveness, or who may not even understand their need for it.
    So as Christians, we should be accepting of other people, always, not thinking more highly of ourselves than we ought to, yet not compromising our own behavior or ethics.
     
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  4. shadrack
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    shadrack Member

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    The corrupt leadership of the political church want you to fret about sins, real or imaginery, and agonize about the uncertainty of your salvation. That's what gets their politicians elected. They want you to call evil as it is. They say, rebuke the sin of the sinner! Condemn the gays and their lifestyle! Write your politician to create civil law in an effort to alter their behavior! I say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

    Leave the gays alone. Love is what persuades, not condemnation. Jesus understood this, so love God with all your soul and love your neighbor as yourself. There are no greater commandments than these. Love is the fulfilling of the law.

    If you fell icky about gays or they "piss" you off, it's your own personal problem.
     
  5. clumzgirl
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    clumzgirl Member

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    Ok, maybe using gays as an example was a bad idea.
    I'm not meaning to sound self-righteous-- I'm well aware that I'm not perfect.
    But I guess I'm having trouble reconciling the Old Testament and the New Testament.

    The first seems to say "Do no wrong and don't associate with those who do or you're going to hell in a handbasket" :dev1: while the second is more "Love thy neighbor and be more understanding."

    What gives? :huh:

    (And by the way, yes, some gay people make me feel icky. The flaming clerk at Barnes & Noble looks at women with disdain. On the other hand, I have a friend who is a lesbian and we have a great platonic relationship. The pissing off part was aimed at hippies, not gays in particular.)
     
  6. Merlin1047
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    Merlin1047 Senior Member

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    We have a right as a society to set boundaries for acceptable behavior. That has nothing to do with religion of any kind. As Christians we should not condemn, persecute or judge homosexuals, but we are not required to accept their conduct as "normal" . That is the aspect of this question which most people who have a pro-homosexual view fail to appreciate. The homosexual lobby has chosen to take their cause into the public domain. Having done that, they have made themselves fair game for public criticism.

    Homosexuals are campaigning for "rights" in regard to marriage or civil unions but I believe that they are barking up the wrong tree. Homosexuality is a behavior. It is not a human condition on the same order as being white, black, asian, male, or female. Unlike religion, which is also a behavior, homosexuality is not protected by the constitution and that is a fact which homosexual "rights" advocates refuse to acknowledge.

    My philosophy is to treat everyone courteously and respectfully unless they show that they do not merit such consideration. I have no problem with homosexuals as people and I have no problem with private homosexual conduct although I disagree with it. However when homosexuals take the discussion public, then we have as much right as anyone to express our views. The infuriating aspect of the discussion usually crops up when homosexuals paint anyone who dares to dispute the righteousness of their conduct as being intolerant, bigoted and "homophobic".

    Bottom line - I get along just fine with homosexuals who keep their behavior private. But when they go public and try to convince me that they have a "rights" which attach to homosexual conduct, then I am no longer obliged to play nice.

    So as a christian, I don't judge homosexuals, I don't condemn them, I don't declare they're going to hell. I don't chase down homosexuals and try to convince them of the error of their ways. But when they try to convince me that I am wrong, then I no longer feel a need to remain silent.
     
  7. dmp
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    dmp Senior Member

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    Jesus showed contempt for sin - People were mis-using the church; based out of greed. He got pissed, and kicked their asses. He loved those whose asses he was kicking, yet he absolutely did not tolerate their sin.

    :)
     
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  8. shadrack
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    shadrack Member

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    That is a completely false statement. No one has a right to set a boundary for anyone's behavior unless that behavior infringes on another's rights. How does anyone's private behavior infringe on your rights? How does a homosexual's public behavior infringe on your rights? How does a civil union between two commited and consenting adults infringe on your rights?
    Because you are a closet bigot, like they are a closet homo.
    In a Christian sense, homosexuals are wrong. In a civil sense.......how are they wrong again?
     
  9. Merlin1047
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    Merlin1047 Senior Member

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    I make it a personal policy not to get into discussions with obnoxious, opinionated, arrogant and ignorant individuals such as yourself. Your responses indicate that you are not seeking a discussion, merely an argument.

    Pick another victim, junior. I'm not in the mood.
     
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  10. Eightball
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    Eightball Senior Member

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    Throughout the New Testament, you never find Christ forcing his beliefs on others, yet many came to Him, seeking what made him so different from all other human beings.

    Christ was invited to have dinner at a tax collector's house. Tax collectors were the drudge of Jewish society, yet Christ dined at this man's house. Christ didn't go there to become a tax collector, or to partake in any sinful activity, but because he had compassion for this man. I'm sure that Christ enjoyed himself there to. He didn't go there thinking that he had to force himself to endure all these sinful friends, and activities that might have been part of this dinner party. He went there because of love, of His creation. This passion allowed Christ to look beyond the fallen nature of mankind, and love them with compassion.

    "More flys are drawn to honey than to bitter substances."

    Christ was not validating the tax collector's life style, and choices when he accepted the dinner invite. He was responding to the person.

    God is a gentleman when it comes to reaching our lives. He doesn't clonk us over the head and drag us to Him, but waits for his human creation to seek Him. God is always calling, but He waits for mankind to respond to the call. He calls in so many ways.........i.e....through his marvelous creation.....ala Romans Chapter 1......through the effects that Christians have on those that aren't Christians. God also allows suffering that will cause mankind to come to realization that they are powerless to control there own life or manipulate other's. As Paul succinctly said, "When I am weak He(God) is strong".

    Gay folks are biblical living in sin.......yet those that commit adultery are also sinning.........those that put things into their body that kill brain cells.......also are sinning...........

    Concerning the Gay gene........it will never be found........Most that believe that they were gay from birth, don't realize that early in their maturation(early childhood), their sexual orientation was being formed through covert and overt affects through their parents, and other important peers. Doctor Dobson, in his book, Raising Boys(sons or something like that)......stated that without exception as a Pediatric psychologist, that every young man that he counseled that had gay tendencies had an early imbalance in parental coverage/influence. Those with fathers who were more passive, and lacking assertiveness to be involved as strong masculine role models to them, and had mothers who filled that vacuum with a strong dominance in the family/marriage were very likely to gravitate towards feminine roles as a positive. There's a big difference between strong mothers, and mothers who dominated as a way to fill the role of an father who was present, but basically absent as a masculine role model.

    Father's seem to be the "King Pin" in this Gay revolution in human kind. Parental role balance is so important. A father's impact on the female child is just as profound. A weak father image in childhood, doesn't mean one is bound for the gay life. Many other factors come into play, such as: the child's personality in particular....... Never the less.......even as a child......a choice is gradually made......as the child attempts to form a self identity. As this child grows to adulthood, the choice becomes a fuzzy memory and usually is assumed to be an orientation that occured before birth.

    Parents hold the key to sexual orientation.......in a massive way.

    There are many Christian counseling ministries that consentrate on helping those who are gay, become heterosexual. These people are not changed through intimidation, or guilt, but through objective truth. Truly, many in the gay life, that trace their orientation back to childhood are truly victims...........never the less......our maker does not make the changes for us, but reveals the truth to us........guides us........yet works integrally with our wills.......to heal us.

    Regards, Eightballsidepocket
     

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