idaho

[Old Rocks]

Idaho is really serious about alternative energy. 84% of the energy used there is derived from alternatives, and yet they have the third lowest energy costs of the states.

How does that line up with that endlessly repeated Conservative conundrum about alternative energy about alternative energy pricing everybody out of the market?

Renewable Energy in Idaho : Idaho Department of Commerce

Idaho: The Home of Renewable Energy
Idaho is serious about renewable energy. The Gem State is a perfect testing ground for renewable energy technologies, and already alternative energy manufacturing companies are moving in to tap Idaho's outstanding business climate. This is not surprising, considering the state boasts a variety of elements that make it a viable laboratory and manufacturing center for the next step in power generation. Two of those elements include the Idaho National Laboratory and Idaho's consistent rank as #1 in the nation for patents per capita and manufacturing investment. Combined with Idaho having the third lowest energy costs and being fifth best in long-term employment growth, it's no wonder that Idaho's renewable energy manufacturing base is on the rise.

 

[Mr. H.]

I don't see that 84% figure in the linked story. Where'd that come from?
You think their template for success could translate to other states too?
Having a population of just 1.5 million probably helps.

 

[Flopper]

Even more interesting is that Idaho is a Red state.

 

[Old Rocks]

I don't see that 84% figure in the linked story. Where'd that come from?
You think their template for success could translate to other states too?
Having a population of just 1.5 million probably helps.

Top 10 Most - and Least - Green U.S. States - DailyFinance

Hard to translate any one template from state to state. The geology, for Geo-thermal, the wind patterns, hydropower, and amount of sunshine varies significantly. However, for Geo-thermal, deep drilling will get hot rock almost anywhere in the US, provided you have the water to pump down to take advantage of that.

With the continueing improvements on solar, it will become a major factor, particulary when deployed on existing structures.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

I don't see that 84% figure in the linked story. Where'd that come from?
You think their template for success could translate to other states too?
Having a population of just 1.5 million probably helps.

The source is the ID chamber of commerce....

 

[Old Rocks]

Even more interesting is that Idaho is a Red state.

A red state that is getting over 84% of the energy from alternative sources, and paying less for it than people in 46 of the other states. Kind of proves that even conservatives like to pay less for more. Of course, Conservatives will continue to insist that it cannot be done.

 

[percysunshine]

What did the street walker say to the cop when her 'john' had a heart attack during sex?


Idaho, Oregon

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Idaho is really serious about alternative energy. 84% of the energy used there is derived from alternatives, and yet they have the third lowest energy costs of the states.

How does that line up with that endlessly repeated Conservative conundrum about alternative energy about alternative energy pricing everybody out of the market?

Renewable Energy in Idaho : Idaho Department of Commerce

Idaho: The Home of Renewable Energy
Idaho is serious about renewable energy. The Gem State is a perfect testing ground for renewable energy technologies, and already alternative energy manufacturing companies are moving in to tap Idaho's outstanding business climate. This is not surprising, considering the state boasts a variety of elements that make it a viable laboratory and manufacturing center for the next step in power generation. Two of those elements include the Idaho National Laboratory and Idaho's consistent rank as #1 in the nation for patents per capita and manufacturing investment. Combined with Idaho having the third lowest energy costs and being fifth best in long-term employment growth, it's no wonder that Idaho's renewable energy manufacturing base is on the rise.

Could it be that you are lumping things together under alternative energy?

Idaho gets over 85% of its electricity from hydroelectric, 1% from renewable. My wild guess is that the reason they have some of the lowest electricity costs in the nation is that the federal government paid for all of the hydroelectric plants in Idaho.

EERE State Activities and Partnerships: Electric Power and Renewable Energy in Idaho

 

[dean12]

Even more interesting is that Idaho is a Red state.

why we called this red state.

 

[newpolitics]

I don't see that 84% figure in the linked story. Where'd that come from?
You think their template for success could translate to other states too?
Having a population of just 1.5 million probably helps.

Why would you downplay the success of alternative energies anywhere? I don't understand this conservative attitude to be totally loyal to oil, and almost considers alternative energies as a threat to their 'master'? Energy is energy... why not be happy for the fact that Idaho is doing it, and if they can do it, cheaply, it is possible to do it everywhere. Fucking conservatism. Ungrateful of something truly good. Always vying to for big money. Just get out.

 

[newpolitics]

Empoying alternative energies is only a matter of getting over the initial cost of putting in place the infrastructure, which will undoubtedly be substantial, but once the wind power mills, the hydro-electric plants, the solar panels... all of it are in, we are in the clear. Why the FUCK wouldn't we work towards that instead of pillage the skin of this of this planet to keep on doing something that we know is going to run out in the next hundred years? I'll tell you why. The same reason J.D. Rockefeller had prohibition instituted to outlaw ethanol so his oil could be used in model-T's, which were originally made to run on ethanol but were eating up too much of the oil market: MONEY and Profit and CORPORATE GREED. Until the dumb fucks start realizing that and stop sticking up for corporations, we are only setting our future generations for a Mad Max type era of war, famine, disease. Fuck, that is the whole reason we went to Iraq. Our government knows the oil is going to run out soon, so they had to get their hands on Iraq now, so we have it when it runs low and people are fighting wars for it. That is why 911 happened. Godamn conservatives preaching patriotism when it is our own government that killed its people so they could get public opinion on their side to start wars where theh oil is, and have domination over when things get real bad in the future, and the supply gets real low. We then will be the real moneymakers with our hands on the only oil in the world. One world government... it's happening already. The EU, the North American Union. they are making moves under our noses, and we sit hear and bicker about all of this stupid bullshit. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Empoying alternative energies is only a matter of getting over the initial cost of putting in place the infrastructure, which will undoubtedly be substantial, but once the wind power mills, the hydro-electric plants, the solar panels... all of it are in, we are in the clear. Why the FUCK wouldn't we work towards that instead of pillage the skin of this of this planet to keep on doing something that we know is going to run out in the next hundred years? I'll tell you why. The same reason J.D. Rockefeller had prohibition instituted to outlaw ethanol so his oil could be used in model-T's, which were originally made to run on ethanol but were eating up too much of the oil market: MONEY and Profit and CORPORATE GREED. Until the dumb fucks start realizing that and stop sticking up for corporations, we are only setting our future generations for a Mad Max type era of war, famine, disease. Fuck, that is the whole reason we went to Iraq. Our government knows the oil is going to run out soon, so they had to get their hands on Iraq now, so we have it when it runs low and people are fighting wars for it. That is why 911 happened. Godamn conservatives preaching patriotism when it is our own government that killed its people so they could get public opinion on their side to start wars where theh oil is, and have domination over when things get real bad in the future, and the supply gets real low. We then will be the real moneymakers with our hands on the only oil in the world. One world government... it's happening already. The EU, the North American Union. they are making moves under our noses, and we sit hear and bicker about all of this stupid bullshit. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

Another idiot that ignores facts in favor of good intentions.

Alternative energy requires more than just the initial investment to be viable. Solar power requires at least 12.5 square miles of land to produce the same max amount of electricity as a large coal fired plant. After that investment you get a plant that only produce energy at at an average 30%. Even after overcoming those obstacles you still have to deal with higher maintenance costs on solar panels than conventional power plants entail.

Wind power is even less efficient than solar, and requires a new method of storing power that does not even exist yet.

Hyrdo electric power is a proven alternative, but environmentalist hate it even more than the do oil and natural gas, despite the obvious advantages that it has demonstrated in Idaho. You need to stop relying on talking points and look at real numbers. The hard truth is that solar and wind power is at least 10 years down the road. The really hard truth is that the experts have been throwing out that 10 year figure for the last 5 decades. In fifty years you might see some kid pop up on whatever the equivelent of this board is then talking about how all we need to do is get past that initial investment stage and everything will magically be free, and you will wonder why you were ever that gullible.

 

[newpolitics]

Empoying alternative energies is only a matter of getting over the initial cost of putting in place the infrastructure, which will undoubtedly be substantial, but once the wind power mills, the hydro-electric plants, the solar panels... all of it are in, we are in the clear. Why the FUCK wouldn't we work towards that instead of pillage the skin of this of this planet to keep on doing something that we know is going to run out in the next hundred years? I'll tell you why. The same reason J.D. Rockefeller had prohibition instituted to outlaw ethanol so his oil could be used in model-T's, which were originally made to run on ethanol but were eating up too much of the oil market: MONEY and Profit and CORPORATE GREED. Until the dumb fucks start realizing that and stop sticking up for corporations, we are only setting our future generations for a Mad Max type era of war, famine, disease. Fuck, that is the whole reason we went to Iraq. Our government knows the oil is going to run out soon, so they had to get their hands on Iraq now, so we have it when it runs low and people are fighting wars for it. That is why 911 happened. Godamn conservatives preaching patriotism when it is our own government that killed its people so they could get public opinion on their side to start wars where theh oil is, and have domination over when things get real bad in the future, and the supply gets real low. We then will be the real moneymakers with our hands on the only oil in the world. One world government... it's happening already. The EU, the North American Union. they are making moves under our noses, and we sit hear and bicker about all of this stupid bullshit. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

Another idiot that ignores facts in favor of good intentions.

Alternative energy requires more than just the initial investment to be viable. Solar power requires at least 12.5 square miles of land to produce the same max amount of electricity as a large coal fired plant. After that investment you get a plant that only produce energy at at an average 30%. Even after overcoming those obstacles you still have to deal with higher maintenance costs on solar panels than conventional power plants entail.

Wind power is even less efficient than solar, and requires a new method of storing power that does not even exist yet.

Hyrdo electric power is a proven alternative, but environmentalist hate it even more than the do oil and natural gas, despite the obvious advantages that it has demonstrated in Idaho. You need to stop relying on talking points and look at real numbers. The hard truth is that solar and wind power is at least 10 years down the road. The really hard truth is that the experts have been throwing out that 10 year figure for the last 5 decades. In fifty years you might see some kid pop up on whatever the equivelent of this board is then talking about how all we need to do is get past that initial investment stage and everything will magically be free, and you will wonder why you were ever that gullible.

In fifty years, we are going to be out of oil or close to it, and will be switching to these energies anyway. Who's the idiot? All of your arguments maybe true, but what are you arguing, to stick to oil? It's not going to last, so who cares. We act like oil is infinite and alternative energy is never going to be primary energy. It's absurd to me, and talk about gullible... it seems like you've been ingesting too many conservative talking points.

 

[AllieBaba]

We won't be out of oil unless retards refuse to let us access it.

And when that happens, people will die.

 

[newpolitics]

We won't be out of oil unless retards refuse to let us access it.

And when that happens, people will die.

Are you saying that you believe that there is limitless oil on this Earth? You do realize it took millions of years for oil to be formed from organic materials, and that once it is gone, it's gone forever (until millions of years from now).

Who might 'these retards' be that refuse us to access it? Oh, you mean the US, who now has control over Iraq oil fields, and it surely planning to take more? Yeah...

Oil will still run out. But when it starts to become scarce, there will be a scramble for the few last drops, and who ever is sitting on those reserves, is little going be in control of the entire world... Our future generations are in for a living hell when this system breaks down, which it will, and we are making it happen with our insistence on oil now. If we could break away, maybe we could save our future generations from a massive level of misery.

 

[AllieBaba]

I'm saying there's plenty of oil and it's stupid to quit using it before it's gone.

I'm also saying you have no fucking idea how much there is, and there's absolutely no evidence that it's dwindling world wide. The only reason we're scrambling now is because our own fucking government has created a false shortage by limiting our access to it. It's not because it isn't there in the ground; it's because assholes like you for some reason want it to stay there, and you don't care who suffers because of it.

 

[newpolitics]

I'm saying there's plenty of oil and it's stupid to quit using it before it's gone.

I'm also saying you have no fucking idea how much there is, and there's absolutely no evidence that it's dwindling world wide. The only reason we're scrambling now is because our own fucking government has created a false shortage by limiting our access to it. It's not because it isn't there in the ground; it's because assholes like you for some reason want it to stay there, and you don't care who suffers because of it.

I am trying to think of the responsible thing to do here Allie, both for ourselves, and the generations ahead of us.

You are right, I don't know how much there is, but how many times have you heard experts say that we already hit peak oil on a number of reserves? I'm not a scientist who is currently studying our underground oil supply, but I'm inclined to trust reports from multiple scientists over a forty year period who conclude that supplies have hit their peak, and from here on out, are only going to fall. If you accept this as truth, then you accept that we have less than a century of oil. If you deny this fact, then I can't have a debate with you.

We are going to use the oil we have now. What I say doesn't matter. The money is in the oil, and that is what rules everything. Whether the market cares about the future I'm pretty sure is also known- it doesn't. Oil still is relatively the cheapest to produce relative to alternative energies, but the time is fast approaching when this will no longer be the case. Why procrastinate? I understand economics simply won't allow it until alternative energies are competitive when oil prices have risen a significant amount as oil runs out, but as I said, when that scenario happens, the world will likely be a dangerous place full of unrest, where deciding and installing alternative energies on a global scale may not be feasible anymore. We should do it now while there is relative peace.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Empoying alternative energies is only a matter of getting over the initial cost of putting in place the infrastructure, which will undoubtedly be substantial, but once the wind power mills, the hydro-electric plants, the solar panels... all of it are in, we are in the clear. Why the FUCK wouldn't we work towards that instead of pillage the skin of this of this planet to keep on doing something that we know is going to run out in the next hundred years? I'll tell you why. The same reason J.D. Rockefeller had prohibition instituted to outlaw ethanol so his oil could be used in model-T's, which were originally made to run on ethanol but were eating up too much of the oil market: MONEY and Profit and CORPORATE GREED. Until the dumb fucks start realizing that and stop sticking up for corporations, we are only setting our future generations for a Mad Max type era of war, famine, disease. Fuck, that is the whole reason we went to Iraq. Our government knows the oil is going to run out soon, so they had to get their hands on Iraq now, so we have it when it runs low and people are fighting wars for it. That is why 911 happened. Godamn conservatives preaching patriotism when it is our own government that killed its people so they could get public opinion on their side to start wars where theh oil is, and have domination over when things get real bad in the future, and the supply gets real low. We then will be the real moneymakers with our hands on the only oil in the world. One world government... it's happening already. The EU, the North American Union. they are making moves under our noses, and we sit hear and bicker about all of this stupid bullshit. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

Another idiot that ignores facts in favor of good intentions.

Alternative energy requires more than just the initial investment to be viable. Solar power requires at least 12.5 square miles of land to produce the same max amount of electricity as a large coal fired plant. After that investment you get a plant that only produce energy at at an average 30%. Even after overcoming those obstacles you still have to deal with higher maintenance costs on solar panels than conventional power plants entail.

Wind power is even less efficient than solar, and requires a new method of storing power that does not even exist yet.

Hyrdo electric power is a proven alternative, but environmentalist hate it even more than the do oil and natural gas, despite the obvious advantages that it has demonstrated in Idaho. You need to stop relying on talking points and look at real numbers. The hard truth is that solar and wind power is at least 10 years down the road. The really hard truth is that the experts have been throwing out that 10 year figure for the last 5 decades. In fifty years you might see some kid pop up on whatever the equivelent of this board is then talking about how all we need to do is get past that initial investment stage and everything will magically be free, and you will wonder why you were ever that gullible.

In fifty years, we are going to be out of oil or close to it, and will be switching to these energies anyway. Who's the idiot? All of your arguments maybe true, but what are you arguing, to stick to oil? It's not going to last, so who cares. We act like oil is infinite and alternative energy is never going to be primary energy. It's absurd to me, and talk about gullible... it seems like you've been ingesting too many conservative talking points.

Something else I have been hearing for 50 years is how close we are to running out of oil. Even if it is true this time, the government is not going to find the answers by artificially deciding what technology is going to replace fossil fuels. The problem with government making that choice is that, when something better comes along, we will be stuck with a massive commitment to an obsolete and inefficient form of energy generation.

I am not arguing to stick to oil. I actually think we should build more nuclear and hydroelectric plants, and have for years. The problem is that idiots like you think those are bad choices to. An investment decades ago in both of those would mean that today we would have 80 to 90 percent of our power supply coming from clean energy, but activist who hate fossil fuels hate nuclear because of Chernobyl, and they hate hydro because fish die.

You are the one that is wrong here, and you need to realize that. We are not burning fossil fuels because the conservatives are addicted to oil, we are burning them because progressives are opposed to everything, including wind and solar, because they think that lizards, birds, and fish are more important than people.