Idaho Student Says Teacher Tossed His Mexican Flag in Trash

[ReillyT]

Religious symbols are not imposing religion on anyone. The law also states that Congress can endorse no religion .... it doesn't say local governments cannot be representative of its consituents.

The USSC disagrees with you about what consitutes imposition, and state/local governments are bound by the Bill of Rights through the 14th Amendment. It might as well say Congress, state legislatures, local councils, school boards, etc.

Don't like it. Try to overturn the 14th Amendment.

You can also say what you wish as far as freedom of expression is concerned but the fact remains, allowing one and not the other is discrimination. And contrary to your opinion, it appears the law is far more concerned with political correctness than it gives regard to impact.

I agree with you that current political feelings and issues of political correctness do play a factor in the application of the law. It shouldn't, but it does. I don't find the answer to be constricting its application to its lowest denominator, but working to expand its application to the broadest, most consistent limits.

 

[Gunny]

That's certainly true from an absolutist perspective on the First Amendment. But that perspective also allows banning the US flag, McCain 2008 buttons, and WWJD t-shirts.

Rational people can understand the distinction between the flag of a friendly neighbor and the flag of armed rebellion against the Union or symbols of bigotry and hatred. The latter promote messages of hatred. The former only offends those who feel hatred for Mexicans.

Oh really? Since when did "rational people" and "leftwingnuts" go together? Y'all damned-sure get absolutist when it suits YOUR agenda.

I am quite the absolutist where freedom of expression is concerned and have ZERO problem with it. Apply the same standard across the board or not at all. Deciding who is and who is not allowed their First Amendment Rights based on what is politically correct is hypocrisy, period.

Oh, and save the appeal to hatred "offends only those who feel hatred for Mexicans" crap. I'm from and live in San Antonio. Half my friends and some relatives are Hispanic. That doesn't address the issue at all and is just a cheap attempt to play the race card.

 

[ReillyT]

I am quite the absolutist where freedom of expression is concerned and have ZERO problem with it. Apply the same standard across the board or not at all. Deciding who is and who is not allowed their First Amendment Rights based on what is politically correct is hypocrisy, period.

As an absolutist, I can only assume that you think the kid should be allowed to carry his Mexican flag, and your viewpoint wouldn't change if the flag was a KKK banner instead.

 

[Ravi]

That's certainly true from an absolutist perspective on the First Amendment. But that perspective also allows banning the US flag, McCain 2008 buttons, and WWJD t-shirts.

Rational people can understand the distinction between the flag of a friendly neighbor and the flag of armed rebellion against the Union or symbols of bigotry and hatred. The latter promote messages of hatred. The former only offends those who feel hatred for Mexicans.

Thanks, that was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Dogger]

I am quite the absolutist where freedom of expression is concerned and have ZERO problem with it. Apply the same standard across the board or not at all. Deciding who is and who is not allowed their First Amendment Rights based on what is politically correct is hypocrisy, period.

Wrong. Several posts of yours in this thread have supported 1st Amendment restrictions and uneven standards, or dismissed 1st Amendment concerns as trivial.

You started the thread by reprinting the story and adding a simple comment, "Oh wah. " That indicated you thought the student was being a crybaby for objecting to the seizure and the discarding of his flag.

When I wrote, "I'm sure the teacher would have behaved exactly the same way if the kid had an American flag", you replied, "Why should he have? This is the US. The school itself flies the US and state flag. This isn't Mexico."

When ReillyT said, "Kids in school are still entitled to some freedom of expression", you said, "No they aren't. They are entitled to get educated."

 

[Ravi]

I suppose the intent is in the eye of the beholder. I think it pretty dreadful that some people living in this country would like to grab some for another country. I think it quite dreadful that the presumptive presidential nominee, McCain, intends to address one of these groups, La Raza, as a keynote speaker.

Oh and before anyone go all ballistic and shouting racist regarding the KKK or Nazis, what have you, I find all such groups abhorrences, I just don't pick and choose my hate group.

I would hope that if I ever lived in another country no one would take my US flag as an expression of disdain.

 

[Gunny]

I would hope that if I ever lived in another country no one would take my US flag as an expression of disdain.

Go to a foreign country and wave it around and see what happens. For one thing, there is no freedom of expression in most countries. Unless you call you are free to express what the government says you are "freedom of expression."

Secondly, I would consider flying the US colors in a foreign country a show of disrespect for that country. And we aren't talking representatives of respective governments who have legal agreements on officially displaying their Nations' colors.

I'm addressing issues such as this one. Private individuals waving their flag around.

 

[Ravi]

Go to a foreign country and wave it around and see what happens. For one thing, there is no freedom of expression in most countries. Unless you call you are free to express what the government says you are "freedom of expression."

Secondly, I would consider flying the US colors in a foreign country a show of disrespect for that country. And we aren't talking representatives of respective governments who have legal agreements on officially displaying their Nations' colors.

I'm addressing issues such as this one. Private individuals waving their flag around.

You crack me up Gunny.

Aside from that, I wasn't talking about flying the flag. I was talking about something similar to what this kid did, carrying a small flag on an American holiday. I can see where this would be a problem in countries like Iran, etc., but I doubt any democracies would have a problem with it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You crack me up Gunny.

Aside from that, I wasn't talking about flying the flag. I was talking about something similar to what this kid did, carrying a small flag on an American holiday. I can see where this would be a problem in countries like Iran, etc., but I doubt any democracies would have a problem with it.

Ya, like France where you can not advertise except in French?

 

[Annie]

I would hope that if I ever lived in another country no one would take my US flag as an expression of disdain.

Only if you waved it in their faces, I'm sure.

 

[ReillyT]

Ya, like France where you can not advertise except in French?

I go to France a lot and I have seen advertising in English and Arabic.

 

[Ravi]

Ya, like France where you can not advertise except in French?

Is that true? The last time I was in France I remember seeing ads in English. I also had a little flag patch on my backpack. No one commented on it.

Perhaps the new right wing president of France has changed things.

 

[Dogger]

Go to a foreign country and wave it around and see what happens. For one thing, there is no freedom of expression in most countries. Unless you call you are free to express what the government says you are "freedom of expression."

If the school can take the kid's flag because they don't like it, how is America different?

Please note: that's a question, not a statement or an accusation.

 

[Annie]

Is that true? The last time I was in France I remember seeing ads in English. I also had a little flag patch on my backpack. No one commented on it.

Perhaps the new right wing president of France has changed things.

and if the kid had a Mexican flag sewn onto his backpack, the coach would probably not have noticed. Let's see, small flag, small stick, gym, hs boys. Ignoring the idea of it perhaps inflamming rivalries, let's just consider stick, probably a point of some sort above little flag, PE class, locker room, goofy teen boys.

 

[Ravi]

and if the kid had a Mexican flag sewn onto his backpack, the coach would probably not have noticed. Let's see, small flag, small stick, gym, hs boys. Ignoring the idea of it perhaps inflamming rivalries, let's just consider stick, probably a point of some sort above little flag, PE class, locker room, goofy teen boys.

Jesus, K, are you going to go to your grave defending this asinine teacher? This kid wasn't the only one that brought a flag to school that day to celebrate the holiday.

Perhaps we should just ban boys from schools since they seem to be the root of all evil?

Minico High School Principal Dan Rogers said nothing out of the ordinary occurred at the school after Froylan Camelo, 16, said instructor Clint Straatman took the flag from him and threw it in the trash in the weight room. He and other students brought Mexican flags to school Monday to celebrate Cinco de Mayo.

http://www.southidahopress.com/articles/2008/05/08/news/local/9452mexicanflag.txt

 

[Angel Heart]

Ya, like France where you can not advertise except in French?

Wrong... You have to have French in the advertisement, nothing about not having another language on it. They have a national language. We don't.

 

[Dogger]

Wrong... You have to have French in the advertisement, nothing about not having another language on it. They have a national language. We don't.

Don't conservatives aspire to be better than the French?

 

[ReillyT]

Wrong... You have to have French in the advertisement, nothing about not having another language on it. They have a national language. We don't.

RGS didn't know what the hell he was talking about???? I am shocked.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

RGS didn't know what the hell he was talking about???? I am shocked.

Wait, I thought you claimed No French was required? You got it wrong , shocker, that is.

 

[ReillyT]

Wait, I thought you claimed No French was required? You got it wrong , shocker, that is.

I didn't say that French wasn't required. I said that I had seen ads in English and Arabic. The same ads may have been in the window in French as well. Since I can't read French very well, I wouldn't know if they say the same thing.

Try again?