Idaho Student Says Teacher Tossed His Mexican Flag in Trash

[jillian]

And you'd get a response that says tell your kid to leave his toys at home. This is a learning enviroment, not a political forum.

And of course you'd squeal racism. Why am I NOT surprised? The flag that represents a foreign nation was tossed into the trash, not the kid.

It represented a foreign nation? So what. If my child took an Israeli flag to school today to commemorate Israel's 60th birthday, damn right I'd expect him to be treated respectfully. Now...if he misused the flag, there is nothing wrong with taking it and putting it in teacher's desk. But I don't care WHAT country the flag was from. It was the disrespect to the CHILD. Do you think that kid will ever forget it?

 

[Gunny]

Factually and legally wrong. Kids are entitled to a measure of 1st amendment protection while in school. That is the law.

So long as is supports the politically-correct, secular progressive environment the school pushes. However, that is based on enforcement or lack thereof. There is no law that supports children being entitled to "measure of 1st amendment protection while in school."

Schools dictate what they consider acceptable and not. Either way, your point is moot since it doesn't appear the teacher was enforcing school policy; rather acting on his own.

 

[ReillyT]

So long as is supports the politically-correct, secular progressive environment the school pushes. However, that is based on enforcement or lack thereof. There is no law that supports children being entitled to "measure of 1st amendment protection while in school."

Schools dictate what they consider acceptable and not. Either way, your point is moot since it doesn't appear the teacher was enforcing school policy; rather acting on his own.

Tinker v. Des Moines School District, 393 U.S. 503 (1969)

Here, students wanted to wear black armbands to show their disagreement with the Vietnam war. The school confiscated the armbands and prohibited the students from attending school wearing the armbands.

The District Court concluded that the action of the school authorities was reasonable because it was based upon their fear of a disturbance from the wearing of the armbands. But, in our system, undifferentiated fear or apprehension of disturbance is not enough to overcome the right to freedom of expression. Any departure from absolute regimentation may cause trouble. Any variation from the majority's opinion may inspire fear. Any word spoken, in class, in the lunchroom, or on the campus, that deviates from the views of another person may start an argument or cause a disturbance. But our Constitution says we must take this risk, Terminiello v. Chicago, 337 U.S. 1 (1949); and our history says that it is this sort of hazardous freedom - this kind of openness - that is [393 U.S. 503, 509] the basis of our national strength and of the independence and vigor of Americans who grow up and live in this relatively permissive, often disputatious, society.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=393&invol=503

It is irrevelant that the teacher was acting on his own. He is a representative of the school, which is representative of the state. However, I think if the school were to reverse the decision of the teacher and allow the student to carry whatever damn flag he wanted, the problem is solved. No need for a lawsuit.

 

[Gunny]

It represented a foreign nation? So what. If my child took an Israeli flag to school today to commemorate Israel's 60th birthday, damn right I'd expect him to be treated respectfully. Now...if he misused the flag, there is nothing wrong with taking it and putting it in teacher's desk. But I don't care WHAT country the flag was from. It was the disrespect to the CHILD. Do you think that kid will ever forget it?

That's because you are one-sided about everything. What if it was a child who wanted to take a Klan flag to school? Still feel the same? I doubt it.

I don't care whether or not the child "forgets it." This ISN'T Mexico. He SHOULDN'T forget it.

What is "misusing a flag" in a public school? I don't see where it belongs there at all. The school/teachers confiscate stuff that doesn't belong thousands of times daily and no one gives a crap.

 

[Ravi]

A kid takes a flag to school to celebrate a holiday. The teacher throws it in the trash so he won't get beat up. Of course this is an outcome of a nanny state...protecting students from their own existence.

The righties would be peeing their pants if a kid brought a bible to school to celebrate a holiday and a teacher took it and threw it in the trash so the kid wouldn't get beat up.

 

[ReillyT]

The righties would be peeing their pants if a kid brought a bible to school to celebrate a holiday and a teacher took it and threw it in the trash so the kid wouldn't get beat up.

Excellent point.

 

[Gunny]

Tinker v. Des Moines School District, 393 U.S. 503 (1969)

Here, students wanted to wear black armbands to show their disagreement with the Vietnam war. The school confiscated the armbands and prohibited the students from attending school wearing the armbands.



http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=393&invol=503

It is irrevelant that the teacher was acting on his own. He is a representative of the school, which is representative of the state. However, I think if the school were to reverse the decision of the teacher and allow the student to carry whatever damn flag he wanted, the problem is solved. No need for a lawsuit.

What applies in Des Moines does not apply everywhere else. So you found some 40 years old even to support your claim?

It is relevant that the teacher was acting on his own when you choose to blame the school. If the teacher's actions are not supported by school policy, then attempting to hold the school responsible is bullshit.

The shouldn't reverse the decision of the teacher. If the school did the right thing, it would support his decision. Admittedly, the child had a Mexican flag in commemoration of a holiday that is not officially recognized in this country and for no other reason.

There's no reason to have the stupid thing in the school to begin with except to make a political statement. It is the school's job to provide a basic education to our children, not provide a venue for them to express their parents' political beliefs.

 

[Dogger]

What applies in Des Moines does not apply everywhere else. So you found some 40 years old even to support your claim?

That was a US Supreme Court case. It applies everywhere in the US, even Idaho.

That would have been obvious if you had just checked the link instead of spouting off without getting all the facts.

 

[ReillyT]

What applies in Des Moines does not apply everywhere else. So you found some 40 years old even to support your claim?

It is relevant that the teacher was acting on his own when you choose to blame the school. If the teacher's actions are not supported by school policy, then attempting to hold the school responsible is bullshit.

The shouldn't reverse the decision of the teacher. If the school did the right thing, it would support his decision. Admittedly, the child had a Mexican flag in commemoration of a holiday that is not officially recognized in this country and for no other reason.

There's no reason to have the stupid thing in the school to begin with except to make a political statement. It is the school's job to provide a basic education to our children, not provide a venue for them to express their parents' political beliefs.

That 40 year old case is still the law. It has never been overturned. I am sorry if you disagree with it.

If the school doesn't support the teacher, then they will reverse his decision and that is that.

If the school does support the teacher, then according to Tinker they have probably violated the law, and should expect a lawsuit that they will likely lose.

Kids in school are allowed to make political statements. That is the law, whether you like it or not.

 

[Ravi]

What applies in Des Moines does not apply everywhere else. So you found some 40 years old even to support your claim?

It is relevant that the teacher was acting on his own when you choose to blame the school. If the teacher's actions are not supported by school policy, then attempting to hold the school responsible is bullshit.

The shouldn't reverse the decision of the teacher. If the school did the right thing, it would support his decision. Admittedly, the child had a Mexican flag in commemoration of a holiday that is not officially recognized in this country and for no other reason.

There's no reason to have the stupid thing in the school to begin with except to make a political statement. It is the school's job to provide a basic education to our children, not provide a venue for them to express their parents' political beliefs.

The constitution is even older than forty years.

 

[Doug]

Had the kid brought in the flag of Andorra, there would have been no problem.

The problem came because there is hostility to the flag of Mexico -- either from other kids (the teacher's story), or from the teacher himself, or both.

Now why is there this hostility?

It is because a signficant number of the Anglo-Saxon population of the United States is hostile to immigrants from Mexico, for a number of reasons. One of those reasons is that they fear the "Mexicanization" of all or part of the United States, either directly -- la reconquista -- or indirectly. And they don't want that.

Now what liberals should do is one of two things:

Demonstrate to the fearful that what they fear is not happening. The number of immigrants is small, and/or they quickly assimilate to the American norm.

Or

Convince them that Mexicanization should not be opposed, either because it is a Good Thing, or at least not a Bad Thing ("who are we to criticize..." etc) , or because we deserve it for our evil deeds. (Obama supporters can explain that this is one of ways that God will Damn America, as his confidant and pastor hopes.)

-----------------------------------------------------

This little episode has no doubt been repeated over and over in the world -- imagine a Protestant child taking a Union Jack into a Catholic Irish school, or a Catholic child taking an Irish Tricolor into a Protestant-Unionist school; a Greek child taking a Greek flag into a Turkish school, or vice versa; an Albanian child ... I could go on and on, moving around the globe to all the unfortunate places where two or more nationalities find themselves inhabiting the same physical territory, but it gets tedious.

Taking a Confederate Battle Flag into a mainly-Black school would also produce results, possibly fatal, but don't expect liberals to rush to the flag-bearer's defense in that case.

 

[Ravi]

Fear makes everything acceptable?

Okie dokie.

I'd have no problem with a kid bringing a con flag to school.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Fear makes everything acceptable?

Okie dokie.

I'd have no problem with a kid bringing a con flag to school.

And you would have no problem when that kid got beaten or killed in a mostly black school? Because teachers were to stupid to do their job?

Reality trumps ideals every damn time. Reality, you liberals need to learn some. The teacher was worried that the kid was gonna get hurt. Was he right? I do not know, but given what I DO KNOW about small town Idaho, sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Is the teacher a racist or had personal feelings of his own? I do not know, but the REALITY is that flag could have resulted in an attack on that kid. Given the REALITY of small town Idaho.

 

[ReillyT]

And you would have no problem when that kid got beaten or killed in a mostly black school? Because teachers were to stupid to do their job?

Reality trumps ideals every damn time. Reality, you liberals need to learn some. The teacher was worried that the kid was gonna get hurt. Was he right? I do not know, but given what I DO KNOW about small town Idaho, sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Is the teacher a racist or had personal feelings of his own? I do not know, but the REALITY is that flag could have resulted in an attack on that kid. Given the REALITY of small town Idaho.

I thought you were against the notion that the ends justify the means.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The constitution is even older than forty years.

Like you people know what the Constitution says or means.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I thought you were against the notion that the ends justify the means.

Are you a retard today? If the kid had been beaten you all would be howling how the teacher failed in his duties. Grow the hell up.

Answer the question asked. Would it be ok if a white Student took a Klu Klux Clan Flag to a black school? Would it be ok if a white Student took a Confederate Battle Flag to a black school?

Would it be prudent for a teacher to take those flags away to avoid death or injury to said kid?

 

[ReillyT]

And you would have no problem when that kid got beaten or killed in a mostly black school? Because teachers were to stupid to do their job?

Reality trumps ideals every damn time. Reality, you liberals need to learn some. The teacher was worried that the kid was gonna get hurt. Was he right? I do not know, but given what I DO KNOW about small town Idaho, sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Is the teacher a racist or had personal feelings of his own? I do not know, but the REALITY is that flag could have resulted in an attack on that kid. Given the REALITY of small town Idaho.

RGS in thread A:

"You guys don't understand freedom. For you anti-Americans, it is perfectly okay to step on the 4th Amendment in order to 'protect the children' just because someone says the children are at risk. Don't you understand the meaning of RIGHTS? This kind of end justify the means thinking is unpatriotic. You just don't understand the Constitution"

RGS in thread B:

"The most important thing is to protect the children. It doesn't matter what the 1st Amendment says when children are at risk. RIGHTS... SCHMIGHTS. You guys don't understand REALITY, and you don't understand the Constitution."

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah. Hypocrite.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

RGS in thread A:

"You guys don't understand freedom. For you anti-Americans, it is perfectly okay to step on the 4th Amendment in order to 'protect the children' just because someone says the children are at risk. Don't you understand the meaning of RIGHTS? This kind of end justify the means thinking is unpatriotic. You just don't understand the Constitution"

RGS in thread B:

"The most important thing is to protect the children. It doesn't matter what the 1st Amendment says when children are at risk. RIGHTS... SCHMIGHTS. You guys don't understand REALITY, and you don't understand the Constitution."

You are a fucking retard. I shall hence forth remember you think it is ok for teachers to allow children to be beaten or killed cause of a flag.

Oh by the way schools do not operate the same as the rest of society. Students do NOT have all the rights of everyone else. That to has been well established in our legal system.

So tell me dumb fuck? As his parents, would you rather be visiting him in the hospital or have him come home complaining a teacher took away his flag?

The Teacher acted in good faith based on his knowledge of the kids in his class. It is now and has always been the teachers job to maintain good order and discipline in class rooms and to protect his students.

Your example is simply wrong. That I have to explain it to you is hilarious except for the fact you are being as ignorant as a fucking rock.

 

[ReillyT]

You are a fucking retard. I shall hence forth remember you think it is ok for teachers to allow children to be beaten or killed cause of a flag.

That would be an issue of adequate school supervision, not a 1st Amendment issue.

Oh by the way schools do not operate the same as the rest of society. Students do NOT have all the rights of everyone else. That to has been well established in our legal system.

Okay Mr. Legal Scholar. I agree with part of that, but you seem to miss the most important point: kids do have the right to political speech to the extent permitted in the USSC case Tinker v. Des Moines listed above.

Don't you care about rights at all?

The Teacher acted in good faith based on his knowledge of the kids in his class. It is now and has always been the teachers job to maintain good order and discipline in class rooms and to protect his students.

Only to the extent permitted by law. Don't you care about rights at all?

Your example is simply wrong. That I have to explain it to you is hilarious except for the fact you are being as ignorant as a fucking rock.

I get it. Protecting kids isn't as important as the 4th Amendment, but it is more important than the 1st Amendment. Hypocrite.

 

[Ravi]

And you would have no problem when that kid got beaten or killed in a mostly black school? Because teachers were to stupid to do their job?

Reality trumps ideals every damn time. Reality, you liberals need to learn some. The teacher was worried that the kid was gonna get hurt. Was he right? I do not know, but given what I DO KNOW about small town Idaho, sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Is the teacher a racist or had personal feelings of his own? I do not know, but the REALITY is that flag could have resulted in an attack on that kid. Given the REALITY of small town Idaho.

He threw it in the trash. If he was seriously just looking out for the welfare of his student, he would not have thrown it in the trash.