I Wonder What The Unions Would Do

[WillowTree]

Blog | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

 

[Trajan]

If the taxpayers of Wisconsin went on strike and refused to pay taxes? End of public unions doyathink? They should do it. See how that works out.They need to rid themselves of these thugs one way or another.

they would go oh noes! not 5% of our benefits that we where willing to agree to pay more out of our own pockets.
Next time you decide to start thinking dont.

while you received a 5% raise?

"our"..."we"

 

[rightwinger]

If the taxpayers of Wisconsin went on strike and refused to pay taxes? End of public unions doyathink? They should do it. See how that works out.They need to rid themselves of these thugs one way or another.

That would be funny when your house burns down because there were no taxpayer funded firemen to put it out

 

[Trajan]

I mean hey, if folks in WI think teachers, firemen and police officers are overpaid they can make a blanket statement.

Want to pay the road crews less? What wage scale do you think they should be on?

Parks and Rec employees could probably be paid less. I think I saw $10 an hour for starting wages in MO last time I looked. Sure there are some ridiculous benefits someplace though.

Who else was represented by the unions you would like to give pay cuts to?

Lots of people in other states do those jobs without union thuggery. They are called right to work states. No thuggery.

I love this buzz word "thug". You would Shit your granny pants if you actually ran into an actual thug.
These are not thugs, these are people. A thug would punch you in the face and take your purse.
Fuck i wish you would actually run into one. Might actually learn something.

humm, you are more than halfway right,the people in the streets how are members of wiscy unions are ot thugs, trumka is a thug, is that better?

 

[WillowTree]

I mean hey, if folks in WI think teachers, firemen and police officers are overpaid they can make a blanket statement.

Want to pay the road crews less? What wage scale do you think they should be on?

Parks and Rec employees could probably be paid less. I think I saw $10 an hour for starting wages in MO last time I looked. Sure there are some ridiculous benefits someplace though.

Who else was represented by the unions you would like to give pay cuts to?

Lots of people in other states do those jobs without union thuggery. They are called right to work states. No thuggery.

I love this buzz word "thug". You would Shit your granny pants if you actually ran into an actual thug.
These are not thugs, these are people. A thug would punch you in the face and take your purse.
Fuck i wish you would actually run into one. Might actually learn something.

thugs, send out death threats, and the Republicans are receiving them. they aren't people they are thugs. pure and simple thuggery.

 

[Care4all]

Lots of people in other states do those jobs without union thuggery. They are called right to work states. No thuggery.

Massachusetts is a "right to work" State and they have more unions than any State I believe? So what does a "right to work" state have to do with unions....?

Alabama | Arizona | Arkansas | Florida | Georgia | Guam | Idaho | Iowa | Kansas | Louisiana | Mississippi | Nebraska | Nevada | North Carolina | North Dakota | Oklahoma |South Carolina | South Dakota | Tennessee | Texas | Utah | Virginia | Wyoming
Right to Work States | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

You sure?

well, they do have "right to work" laws in Massachusetts, it covers unions as well?

Massachusetts Right to Work Laws

More Information on Right-to-Work Laws
Code Section Ch. 149 §19, et seq.

Policy on Union Membership, Organization, etc

No person shall, by intimidation or force, prevent or seek to prevent a person from entering into or continuing in the employment of any person

Prohibited Activity

No person shall, himself or by his agent, coerce or compel a person into a written or oral agreement not to join or become a member of a labor organization as a condition of his securing employment or continuing the employment of such person

Penalties

Legal and equitable relief

Massachusetts Right to Work Laws - MA Right to Work Laws - State Laws, Codes

 

[WillowTree]

Massachusetts is a "right to work" State and they have more unions than any State I believe? So what does a "right to work" state have to do with unions....?

Alabama | Arizona | Arkansas | Florida | Georgia | Guam | Idaho | Iowa | Kansas | Louisiana | Mississippi | Nebraska | Nevada | North Carolina | North Dakota | Oklahoma |South Carolina | South Dakota | Tennessee | Texas | Utah | Virginia | Wyoming
Right to Work States | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

You sure?

well, they do have "right to work" laws in Massachusetts, it covers unions as well?

Massachusetts Right to Work Laws

More Information on Right-to-Work Laws
Code Section Ch. 149 §19, et seq.

Policy on Union Membership, Organization, etc

No person shall, by intimidation or force, prevent or seek to prevent a person from entering into or continuing in the employment of any person

Prohibited Activity

No person shall, himself or by his agent, coerce or compel a person into a written or oral agreement not to join or become a member of a labor organization as a condition of his securing employment or continuing the employment of such person

Penalties

Legal and equitable relief

Massachusetts Right to Work Laws - MA Right to Work Laws - State Laws, Codes

Why didn't they make the list?

 

[AllieBaba]

They wouldn't CARE. Just like they

don't care what their STRIKES do to us. It's ALL about them, the sooner people wake up and REALIZE THIS, the better

I mean hey, if folks in WI think teachers, firemen and police officers are overpaid they can make a blanket statement.

Want to pay the road crews less? What wage scale do you think they should be on?

Parks and Rec employees could probably be paid less. I think I saw $10 an hour for starting wages in MO last time I looked. Sure there are some ridiculous benefits someplace though.

Who else was represented by the unions you would like to give pay cuts to?

I would love to see what Stephanie thinks "THEY" should be paid.


.

The same that the public sector is paid in the communities they live in.

Teachers at my kids' charter school gross less than $40,000 a year. Our kindergarten teacher gets $30,000. I know because I'm on the budget committee.

Guys will roof houses for minimum wage; I don't see how working on a road crew is worth 3 times that. Maybe somewhere in between....

The ratio is just way out of whack. We've got to knock the unions down to get some equilibrium. Eventually they'll re-establish themselves, I imagine. Or they will morph into something else.

 

[Care4all]

Alabama | Arizona | Arkansas | Florida | Georgia | Guam | Idaho | Iowa | Kansas | Louisiana | Mississippi | Nebraska | Nevada | North Carolina | North Dakota | Oklahoma |South Carolina | South Dakota | Tennessee | Texas | Utah | Virginia | Wyoming
Right to Work States | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

You sure?

well, they do have "right to work" laws in Massachusetts, it covers unions as well?

Massachusetts Right to Work Laws

More Information on Right-to-Work Laws
Code Section Ch. 149 §19, et seq.

Policy on Union Membership, Organization, etc

No person shall, by intimidation or force, prevent or seek to prevent a person from entering into or continuing in the employment of any person

Prohibited Activity

No person shall, himself or by his agent, coerce or compel a person into a written or oral agreement not to join or become a member of a labor organization as a condition of his securing employment or continuing the employment of such person

Penalties

Legal and equitable relief

Massachusetts Right to Work Laws - MA Right to Work Laws - State Laws, Codes

Why didn't they make the list?

I honestly don't know willow....

 

[editec]

If the taxpayers of Wisconsin went on strike and refused to pay taxes? End of public unions doyathink? They should do it. See how that works out.They need to rid themselves of these thugs one way or another.

Splendid idea.

And then after that, we'll join with Butcher Bill and kill all the lawyers, too, right?

 

[Flopper]

Two points:
1. Right to work laws do not destroy unions. Where you have right to work, unions have to work to get their members, but peer pressure and incentives usually keeps membership up but rarely 100%. In Florida where you have right to work, teacher unions are pretty strong. They negotiate for higher salaries and they do strike.

2. Banning collective bargaining makes no sense. It's like abolishing peace talks between waring nations. If you take away collective bargaining, the unions only alternative to push it's demands are a strike. Also, collective bargaining contracts provide management with a guaranteed labor cost. Without a contract, it's difficult for management to plan because they never know when they will be hit with a work stoppage.

 

[Trajan]

Two points:
1. Right to work laws do not destroy unions. Where you have right to work, unions have to work to get their members, but peer pressure and incentives usually keeps membership up but rarely 100%. In Florida where you have right to work, teacher unions are pretty strong. They negotiate for higher salaries and they do strike.

2. Banning collective bargaining makes no sense. It's like abolishing peace talks between waring nations. If you take away collective bargaining, the unions only alternative to push it's demands are a strike. Also, collective bargaining contracts provide management with a guaranteed labor cost. Without a contract, it's difficult for management to plan because they never know when they will be hit with a work stoppage.

No, the unions first option will be Arbitration. And they will get close to what they wanted all along, at least from where I at and watched at U.C..

 

[AllieBaba]

What would the unions do? Well, I guess (and I use a direct quote from Andy Stern, President SEIU), they'd 'use the persuasion of power'. In short, thuggery, to get their own way.

so therefore all Lobbyists are thugs.....

Logical fallacy...

 

[Flopper]

Two points:
1. Right to work laws do not destroy unions. Where you have right to work, unions have to work to get their members, but peer pressure and incentives usually keeps membership up but rarely 100%. In Florida where you have right to work, teacher unions are pretty strong. They negotiate for higher salaries and they do strike.

2. Banning collective bargaining makes no sense. It's like abolishing peace talks between waring nations. If you take away collective bargaining, the unions only alternative to push it's demands are a strike. Also, collective bargaining contracts provide management with a guaranteed labor cost. Without a contract, it's difficult for management to plan because they never know when they will be hit with a work stoppage.

No, the unions first option will be Arbitration. And they will get close to what they wanted all along, at least from where I at and watched at U.C..

Not sure I really understand the difference between labor arbitration and collective bargaining law. Care to enlighten?

 

[boedicca]

Collective bargaining is used to negotiate a contract.

Arbitration is used to settle legal disputes.

 

[007]

Sheeeeeezuz... all this "you hate teachers" hyperbole is ridiculous. It's isn't about teachers, or road crews, or fireman or cops... it's about TAX PAYERS PAYING THEIR BENEFITS, and STATES BEING BROKE AND NOT ABLE TO PAY THEM ANYMORE. My God people, WAKE THE HELL UP!! Just WHAT PART about STATES AND THE FED IS BROKE don't you goddamn people GET??!! FUCK!!

Let's say your business is short on money. You lay off some workers, you try to pay some less, you scale back outlays.

Do you cut advertising? Hmmm, that may further hurt sales..

Do you cut the pay of the workers who are absolutely essential? If you do capitalism dictates they will quit and by and large you will get inferior replacements.

Not a simple question.

Yes I would lay off workers. Yes I may cut advertising, after looking at how much was being spent on it and it's return. Do I cut pay to "absolutely essential" employees? Possibly, possibly not. But in no shape, way or form does "capitalism dictate" they will quit, and in no shape, way or form do you know or can you say that if they did I would get "inferior replacements." Those claims you made are absolute bull shit pard, pure bull shit.

 

[boedicca]

This is as good a place as any to post another way Unions serve society: by protecting public employees who abuse mentally disables people under their care.

At a home upstate in Hudson Falls, two days before Christmas in 2006, an employee discovered her supervisor, Ricky W. Sousie, in the bedroom of a severely disabled, 54-year-old woman. Mr. Sousie, a stocky man with wispy hair, was standing between the woman’s legs. His pants were around his ankles, his hand was on her knee and her diaper was pulled down.

The police were called, and semen was found on the victim. But the state did not seek to discipline Mr. Sousie. Instead, it transferred him to work at another home. ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/nyregion/13homes.html?src=recg&pagewanted=all

 

[Care4all]

does the article state that these are all union employees that have committed these crimes? Do you just know this? Are all state employees union members?

In addition to this, it sounds to me like the LEADERSHIP of this State Agency, WHO IS NOT UNION for certain, IS THE PROBLEM....they chose not to report their employee's crimes....the Agency heads, BROKE THE LAW....imho.

 

[Toronado3800]

Sheeeeeezuz... all this "you hate teachers" hyperbole is ridiculous. It's isn't about teachers, or road crews, or fireman or cops... it's about TAX PAYERS PAYING THEIR BENEFITS, and STATES BEING BROKE AND NOT ABLE TO PAY THEM ANYMORE. My God people, WAKE THE HELL UP!! Just WHAT PART about STATES AND THE FED IS BROKE don't you goddamn people GET??!! FUCK!!

Let's say your business is short on money. You lay off some workers, you try to pay some less, you scale back outlays.

Do you cut advertising? Hmmm, that may further hurt sales..

Do you cut the pay of the workers who are absolutely essential? If you do capitalism dictates they will quit and by and large you will get inferior replacements.

Not a simple question.

Yes I would lay off workers. Yes I may cut advertising, after looking at how much was being spent on it and it's return. Do I cut pay to "absolutely essential" employees? Possibly, possibly not. But in no shape, way or form does "capitalism dictate" they will quit, and in no shape, way or form do you know or can you say that if they did I would get "inferior replacements." Those claims you made are absolute bull shit pard, pure bull shit.

Bull shit?

Let's say my company employs web programmers (or widget designers, what ever) at 40k a year. We need to hire more, I will hypothetically get 150 applications from folks who think their skills match the salary.

Another company down the road decides to offer 50k, they will get more than 150 applications because everyone sees the two want ads on the internet, those applications will be from more qualified folks and have their pick from a larger pool of potential employees. That company will hire better web programmers.

On the negative side, if my company suddenly decides we can only afford to pay our programmers 35k a year then some of our programmers will look for jobs elsewhere, jobs which pay more. The more skilled will get hired first, we will have a more difficult time finding qualified replacements.

***********************
What to do with our broke States and Fed? I dunno. Provide fewer services? Crazy folks in the suburbs around here pay to have the cities vacuum up the leaves from their trees. I also suppose we don't NEED a park service at all. Perhaps just banning development of Yosemite is what us 21st century Americans can afford. That would save some money. An aircraft carrier less? Who knows, might cost us more in the long run.

Raise taxes? Hold some deficit infrastructure spending to increase GDP so tax income goes up? Lower taxes in hope the GDP goes up enough to raise tax income overall?

These are all points to be argued. All things being equal, if I cut spending on employees more than the average business does though I will get inferior employees.

 

[shintao]

Sounds like our non-union people here would trust anybody with their private data, whereas union members must meet criteria for a position, and possibly be trained or tested by the union to qualify for a job. A dude off the street wouldn't have to meet the same requirements, or if he did, he would have to be qualified by other private companies. Then again, why would a dude work for less than what a union member is paid? As soon as he learned their scale & benefits he would be asking for equal pay.