CDZ I want to know something

[playtime]

i gave you factual examples NOT opinions. if you cannot dispute them, i understand.

You provided examples, indeed, of generalizations that you chose to extend. Examples:

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
And who, precisely, is the judge of "disdain" and "fear" and "looking the other way", when NO President can try to save everyone in every situation? You? Those are opinions, not facts.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
And who, precisely, is the judge of "supremacy" and "disproportionate" and "glamorized"? You? Any President can be said to be guilty of that. Those are opinions, not facts.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
And who, precisely, is the judge of "control", in the age of the internet and myriad news outlets? You? Trump & Co will certainly do what they can, but they can't do much. That is a subjective term, not an objective term.

You're choosing to post "similarities" and extrapolate them out to the extreme. That's not being factual, that's being subjective.

It's intellectually dishonest, it's counter-productive, and it's an insult to the millions of people and families who suffered under those monsters.
.

And who, precisely, is the judge of "disdain" and "fear" and "looking the other way", when NO President can try to save everyone in every situation? You? Those are opinions, not facts.

trump himself said he wants torture. tell me his die hard followers don't want it too?

And who, precisely, is the judge of "supremacy" and "disproportionate" and "glamorized"? You? Any President can be said to be guilty of that. Those are opinions, not facts.

trump himself has no less than 3 generals in his cabinet. one who has a hard on to rid the world of the scourge of islam. & he's going to beef up the military with what what it's going to take to defeat extreme islamists. he's also intending to militarize the police &/or wants to send in the 'feds' to places like chicago. that means the national guard.

And who, precisely, is the judge of "control", in the age of the internet and myriad news outlets? You? Trump & Co will certainly do what they can, but they can't do much. That is a subjective term, not an objective term.

You're choosing to post "similarities" and extrapolate them out to the extreme. That's not being factual, that's being subjective.

are you kidding? look at what he's already doing with the 4th estate. black outs, 'alternative news' agencies will be skyping at press conferences & he also wants to loosen libel laws so 'media' can be sued more easily for 'defamation'.


It's intellectually dishonest, it's counter-productive, and it's an insult to the millions of people and families who suffered under those monsters.

who says? you? that is your opinion. history certainly CAN be repeated & to dismiss that possibility is an insult to those that have lived thru that time. my father fought in WW2 & i know exactly how he would be feeling about trump & what could be brewing. .. & it wouldn't be good.

I think you're conflating opinion and fact.

Nowhere to go from there.
.

your opinion is not fact.

 

[playtime]

no you didn't. but i get why you want to bail.

Yeah, I did and it was in the flame zone.

i deflected it the flame zone?

Ya. It's when I realized you really don't have anything of value to say. You just run around make claims, point at a link and then move on to do it to someone else. That's your MO.

And that's fine but for myself it's a waste of time.

well now- why don't you find that deflection & get back to me with a link to that 'discussion' . i don't think there is one.... why do i think that? because i barely remember interacting with you as it is & if it's in the FLAME ZONE - serious discussion & debate is not where you go. however, on this very thread i have back up & are willing to see what you got. however, i won't be holding my breath because i think you ain't got nuthin'.

lol....

No. Grow up. You have nothing. You simply repeat the same nothing.

because you can't, just as i thought. next time don't make stuff up.

 

[Mac1958]

i gave you factual examples NOT opinions. if you cannot dispute them, i understand.

You provided examples, indeed, of generalizations that you chose to extend. Examples:

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
And who, precisely, is the judge of "disdain" and "fear" and "looking the other way", when NO President can try to save everyone in every situation? You? Those are opinions, not facts.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
And who, precisely, is the judge of "supremacy" and "disproportionate" and "glamorized"? You? Any President can be said to be guilty of that. Those are opinions, not facts.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
And who, precisely, is the judge of "control", in the age of the internet and myriad news outlets? You? Trump & Co will certainly do what they can, but they can't do much. That is a subjective term, not an objective term.

You're choosing to post "similarities" and extrapolate them out to the extreme. That's not being factual, that's being subjective.

It's intellectually dishonest, it's counter-productive, and it's an insult to the millions of people and families who suffered under those monsters.
.

And who, precisely, is the judge of "disdain" and "fear" and "looking the other way", when NO President can try to save everyone in every situation? You? Those are opinions, not facts.

trump himself said he wants torture. tell me his die hard followers don't want it too?

And who, precisely, is the judge of "supremacy" and "disproportionate" and "glamorized"? You? Any President can be said to be guilty of that. Those are opinions, not facts.

trump himself has no less than 3 generals in his cabinet. one who has a hard on to rid the world of the scourge of islam. & he's going to beef up the military with what what it's going to take to defeat extreme islamists. he's also intending to militarize the police &/or wants to send in the 'feds' to places like chicago. that means the national guard.

And who, precisely, is the judge of "control", in the age of the internet and myriad news outlets? You? Trump & Co will certainly do what they can, but they can't do much. That is a subjective term, not an objective term.

You're choosing to post "similarities" and extrapolate them out to the extreme. That's not being factual, that's being subjective.

are you kidding? look at what he's already doing with the 4th estate. black outs, 'alternative news' agencies will be skyping at press conferences & he also wants to loosen libel laws so 'media' can be sued more easily for 'defamation'.


It's intellectually dishonest, it's counter-productive, and it's an insult to the millions of people and families who suffered under those monsters.

who says? you? that is your opinion. history certainly CAN be repeated & to dismiss that possibility is an insult to those that have lived thru that time. my father fought in WW2 & i know exactly how he would be feeling about trump & what could be brewing. .. & it wouldn't be good.

I think you're conflating opinion and fact.

Nowhere to go from there.
.

your opinion is not fact.

Correct!
.

 

[playtime]

i gave you factual examples NOT opinions. if you cannot dispute them, i understand.

You provided examples, indeed, of generalizations that you chose to extend. Examples:

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
And who, precisely, is the judge of "disdain" and "fear" and "looking the other way", when NO President can try to save everyone in every situation? You? Those are opinions, not facts.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
And who, precisely, is the judge of "supremacy" and "disproportionate" and "glamorized"? You? Any President can be said to be guilty of that. Those are opinions, not facts.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
And who, precisely, is the judge of "control", in the age of the internet and myriad news outlets? You? Trump & Co will certainly do what they can, but they can't do much. That is a subjective term, not an objective term.

You're choosing to post "similarities" and extrapolate them out to the extreme. That's not being factual, that's being subjective.

It's intellectually dishonest, it's counter-productive, and it's an insult to the millions of people and families who suffered under those monsters.
.

And who, precisely, is the judge of "disdain" and "fear" and "looking the other way", when NO President can try to save everyone in every situation? You? Those are opinions, not facts.

trump himself said he wants torture. tell me his die hard followers don't want it too?

And who, precisely, is the judge of "supremacy" and "disproportionate" and "glamorized"? You? Any President can be said to be guilty of that. Those are opinions, not facts.

trump himself has no less than 3 generals in his cabinet. one who has a hard on to rid the world of the scourge of islam. & he's going to beef up the military with what what it's going to take to defeat extreme islamists. he's also intending to militarize the police &/or wants to send in the 'feds' to places like chicago. that means the national guard.

And who, precisely, is the judge of "control", in the age of the internet and myriad news outlets? You? Trump & Co will certainly do what they can, but they can't do much. That is a subjective term, not an objective term.

You're choosing to post "similarities" and extrapolate them out to the extreme. That's not being factual, that's being subjective.

are you kidding? look at what he's already doing with the 4th estate. black outs, 'alternative news' agencies will be skyping at press conferences & he also wants to loosen libel laws so 'media' can be sued more easily for 'defamation'.


It's intellectually dishonest, it's counter-productive, and it's an insult to the millions of people and families who suffered under those monsters.

who says? you? that is your opinion. history certainly CAN be repeated & to dismiss that possibility is an insult to those that have lived thru that time. my father fought in WW2 & i know exactly how he would be feeling about trump & what could be brewing. .. & it wouldn't be good.

I think you're conflating opinion and fact.

Nowhere to go from there.
.

your opinion is not fact.

Correct!
.

i gave facts with back up. my 'opinion' as you put it is based on mounting evidence. the world denied a monster more than once. it can happen again. time is all we need.

 

[Mac1958]

You provided examples, indeed, of generalizations that you chose to extend. Examples:

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
And who, precisely, is the judge of "disdain" and "fear" and "looking the other way", when NO President can try to save everyone in every situation? You? Those are opinions, not facts.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
And who, precisely, is the judge of "supremacy" and "disproportionate" and "glamorized"? You? Any President can be said to be guilty of that. Those are opinions, not facts.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
And who, precisely, is the judge of "control", in the age of the internet and myriad news outlets? You? Trump & Co will certainly do what they can, but they can't do much. That is a subjective term, not an objective term.

You're choosing to post "similarities" and extrapolate them out to the extreme. That's not being factual, that's being subjective.

It's intellectually dishonest, it's counter-productive, and it's an insult to the millions of people and families who suffered under those monsters.
.

And who, precisely, is the judge of "disdain" and "fear" and "looking the other way", when NO President can try to save everyone in every situation? You? Those are opinions, not facts.

trump himself said he wants torture. tell me his die hard followers don't want it too?

And who, precisely, is the judge of "supremacy" and "disproportionate" and "glamorized"? You? Any President can be said to be guilty of that. Those are opinions, not facts.

trump himself has no less than 3 generals in his cabinet. one who has a hard on to rid the world of the scourge of islam. & he's going to beef up the military with what what it's going to take to defeat extreme islamists. he's also intending to militarize the police &/or wants to send in the 'feds' to places like chicago. that means the national guard.

And who, precisely, is the judge of "control", in the age of the internet and myriad news outlets? You? Trump & Co will certainly do what they can, but they can't do much. That is a subjective term, not an objective term.

You're choosing to post "similarities" and extrapolate them out to the extreme. That's not being factual, that's being subjective.

are you kidding? look at what he's already doing with the 4th estate. black outs, 'alternative news' agencies will be skyping at press conferences & he also wants to loosen libel laws so 'media' can be sued more easily for 'defamation'.


It's intellectually dishonest, it's counter-productive, and it's an insult to the millions of people and families who suffered under those monsters.

who says? you? that is your opinion. history certainly CAN be repeated & to dismiss that possibility is an insult to those that have lived thru that time. my father fought in WW2 & i know exactly how he would be feeling about trump & what could be brewing. .. & it wouldn't be good.

I think you're conflating opinion and fact.

Nowhere to go from there.
.

your opinion is not fact.

Correct!
.

i gave facts with back up. my opinion is based on mounting evidence.

At least you're now admitting it's opinion.

Good.
.

 

[playtime]

And who, precisely, is the judge of "disdain" and "fear" and "looking the other way", when NO President can try to save everyone in every situation? You? Those are opinions, not facts.

trump himself said he wants torture. tell me his die hard followers don't want it too?

And who, precisely, is the judge of "supremacy" and "disproportionate" and "glamorized"? You? Any President can be said to be guilty of that. Those are opinions, not facts.

trump himself has no less than 3 generals in his cabinet. one who has a hard on to rid the world of the scourge of islam. & he's going to beef up the military with what what it's going to take to defeat extreme islamists. he's also intending to militarize the police &/or wants to send in the 'feds' to places like chicago. that means the national guard.

And who, precisely, is the judge of "control", in the age of the internet and myriad news outlets? You? Trump & Co will certainly do what they can, but they can't do much. That is a subjective term, not an objective term.

You're choosing to post "similarities" and extrapolate them out to the extreme. That's not being factual, that's being subjective.

are you kidding? look at what he's already doing with the 4th estate. black outs, 'alternative news' agencies will be skyping at press conferences & he also wants to loosen libel laws so 'media' can be sued more easily for 'defamation'.


It's intellectually dishonest, it's counter-productive, and it's an insult to the millions of people and families who suffered under those monsters.

who says? you? that is your opinion. history certainly CAN be repeated & to dismiss that possibility is an insult to those that have lived thru that time. my father fought in WW2 & i know exactly how he would be feeling about trump & what could be brewing. .. & it wouldn't be good.

I think you're conflating opinion and fact.

Nowhere to go from there.
.

your opinion is not fact.

Correct!
.

i gave facts with back up. my opinion is based on mounting evidence.

At least you're now admitting it's opinion.

Good.
.

i edited my post to include quotation marks. & expanded. re read it.

 

[Disir]

Yeah, I did and it was in the flame zone.

i deflected it the flame zone?

Ya. It's when I realized you really don't have anything of value to say. You just run around make claims, point at a link and then move on to do it to someone else. That's your MO.

And that's fine but for myself it's a waste of time.

well now- why don't you find that deflection & get back to me with a link to that 'discussion' . i don't think there is one.... why do i think that? because i barely remember interacting with you as it is & if it's in the FLAME ZONE - serious discussion & debate is not where you go. however, on this very thread i have back up & are willing to see what you got. however, i won't be holding my breath because i think you ain't got nuthin'.

lol....

No. Grow up. You have nothing. You simply repeat the same nothing.

because you can't, just as i thought. next time don't make stuff up.

You aren't worth the time.

 

[Mac1958]

I think you're conflating opinion and fact.

Nowhere to go from there.
.

your opinion is not fact.

Correct!
.

i gave facts with back up. my opinion is based on mounting evidence.

At least you're now admitting it's opinion.

Good.
.

i edited my post to include quotation marks. & expanded. re read it.

Okay, you appear to still think he's a fascist.

Thanks for your opinion.
.

 

[playtime]

i deflected it the flame zone?

Ya. It's when I realized you really don't have anything of value to say. You just run around make claims, point at a link and then move on to do it to someone else. That's your MO.

And that's fine but for myself it's a waste of time.

well now- why don't you find that deflection & get back to me with a link to that 'discussion' . i don't think there is one.... why do i think that? because i barely remember interacting with you as it is & if it's in the FLAME ZONE - serious discussion & debate is not where you go. however, on this very thread i have back up & are willing to see what you got. however, i won't be holding my breath because i think you ain't got nuthin'.

lol....

No. Grow up. You have nothing. You simply repeat the same nothing.

because you can't, just as i thought. next time don't make stuff up.

You aren't worth the time.

translation: you got caught in a lie or you would have been more than happy to prove how right you were.

that's ok, i didn't expect much from you anyways.

 

[playtime]

your opinion is not fact.

Correct!
.

i gave facts with back up. my opinion is based on mounting evidence.

At least you're now admitting it's opinion.

Good.
.

i edited my post to include quotation marks. & expanded. re read it.

Okay, you appear to still think he's a fascist.

Thanks for your opinion.
.

lol... you can always show me & the other posters on this thread proof that he isn't, other than using the words ' who said so... you?' i'll be delighted to see you try.

 

[Disir]

Ya. It's when I realized you really don't have anything of value to say. You just run around make claims, point at a link and then move on to do it to someone else. That's your MO.

And that's fine but for myself it's a waste of time.

well now- why don't you find that deflection & get back to me with a link to that 'discussion' . i don't think there is one.... why do i think that? because i barely remember interacting with you as it is & if it's in the FLAME ZONE - serious discussion & debate is not where you go. however, on this very thread i have back up & are willing to see what you got. however, i won't be holding my breath because i think you ain't got nuthin'.

lol....

No. Grow up. You have nothing. You simply repeat the same nothing.

because you can't, just as i thought. next time don't make stuff up.

You aren't worth the time.

translation: you got caught in a lie or you would have been more than happy to prove how right you were.

that's ok, i didn't expect much from you anyways.

No. You really aren't worth it. I have already seen your diatribe. I'm watching you lose again.

 

[Mac1958]

Correct!
.

i gave facts with back up. my opinion is based on mounting evidence.

At least you're now admitting it's opinion.

Good.
.

i edited my post to include quotation marks. & expanded. re read it.

Okay, you appear to still think he's a fascist.

Thanks for your opinion.
.

lol... you can always show me & the other posters on this thread proof that he isn't, other than using the words ' who said so... you?' i'll be delighted to see you try.

So you want me to prove a negative. That would be like some crazed right winger asking me to prove that Obama isn't a Muslim.

I don't know why this bothers you so much. Your opinion is your opinion. That doesn't make it a "fact" or gospel, it just makes it your opinion.

If it's important for your self esteem to convince yourself that your opinion is fact, then great, run with it. That still doesn't make an opinion a fact.
.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

And Trump hates Jews. Absolutely fucking hates them.

Some times I slip up and say "Trump" when I meant to say "Obama", too.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), one finds they all have each of the 14 elements of fascism in common. Not one trait was absent or extant due only to creative interpretations of historic facts. Neither were there but one or two fleeting instances of any of them being manifest. The traits are:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
   Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
   
   
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
   Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
   
   
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
   The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
   
   
4. Supremacy of the Military
   Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
   
   
5. Rampant Sexism
   The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
   
   
6. Controlled Mass Media
   Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
   
   
7. Obsession with National Security
   Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
   
   
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
   Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
   
   
9. Corporate Power is Protected
   The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
   
   
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
    Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .
    
    
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
    Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
    
    
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
    Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
    
    
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
    Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
    
    
14. Fraudulent Elections
    Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Source​

 

[usmbguest5318]

For a casual/high level exposition of economic fascism, see this: Economic Fascism.

 

[playtime]

i gave facts with back up. my opinion is based on mounting evidence.

At least you're now admitting it's opinion.

Good.
.

i edited my post to include quotation marks. & expanded. re read it.

Okay, you appear to still think he's a fascist.

Thanks for your opinion.
.

lol... you can always show me & the other posters on this thread proof that he isn't, other than using the words ' who said so... you?' i'll be delighted to see you try.

So you want me to prove a negative. That would be like some crazed right winger asking me to prove that Obama isn't a Muslim.

I don't know why this bothers you so much. Your opinion is your opinion. That doesn't make it a "fact" or gospel, it just makes it your opinion.

If it's important for your self esteem to convince yourself that your opinion is fact, then great, run with it. That still doesn't make an opinion a fact.
.

lol... if you can't then you can't. & no, it doesn't bother me in anyway you think it might, so don't flatter yourself.
i gave facts. you can't see that. the problem lies with you.

 

[peabody]

And Trump hates Jews. Absolutely fucking hates them.

Some times I slip up and say "Trump" when I meant to say "Obama", too.

I forgot I was in CDZ

 

[usmbguest5318]

Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), one finds they all have each of the 14 elements of fascism in common. Not one trait was absent or extant due only to creative interpretations of historic facts. Neither were there but one or two fleeting instances of any of them being manifest. The traits are:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
   Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
   
   
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
   Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
   
   
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
   The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
   
   
4. Supremacy of the Military
   Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
   
   
5. Rampant Sexism
   The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
   
   
6. Controlled Mass Media
   Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
   
   
7. Obsession with National Security
   Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
   
   
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
   Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
   
   
9. Corporate Power is Protected
   The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
   
   
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
    Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .
    
    
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
    Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
    
    
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
    Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
    
    
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
    Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
    
    
14. Fraudulent Elections
    Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Source​

The above characteristics of fascism are useful for identifying its presence in terms of specific actions and words. To identify it in terms of how fascism manifests itself as a cultural trend adopted and promulgated by an authoritarian, fascist leader, this is helpful.

The first feature of Ur-Fascism is the cult of tradition.
Traditionalism is of course much older than fascism. Not only was it typical of counterrevolutionary Catholic thought after the French revolution, but is was born in the late Hellenistic era, as a reaction to classical Greek rationalism. In the Mediterranean basin, people of different religions (most of the faiths indulgently accepted by the Roman pantheon) started dreaming of a revelation received at the dawn of human history. This revelation, according to the traditionalist mystique, had remained for a long time concealed under the veil of forgotten languages — in Egyptian hieroglyphs, in the Celtic runes, in the scrolls of the little-known religions of Asia.

This new culture had to be syncretistic. Syncretism is not only, as the dictionary says, “the combination of different forms of belief or practice;” such a combination must tolerate contradictions. Each of the original messages contains a sliver of wisdom, and although they seem to say different or incompatible things, they all are nevertheless alluding, allegorically, to the same primeval truth.

As a consequence, there can be no advancement of learning. Truth already has been spelled out once and for all, and we can only keep interpreting its obscure message.

If you browse in the shelves that, in American bookstores, are labeled New Age, you can find there even Saint Augustine, who, as far as I know, was not a fascist. But combining Saint Augustine and Stonehenge — that is a symptom of Ur-Fascism.

Traditionalism implies the rejection of modernism.
Both Fascists and Nazis worshipped technology, while traditionalist thinkers usually reject it as a negation of traditional spiritual values. However, even though Nazism was proud of its industrial achievements, its praise of modernism was only the surface of an ideology based upon blood and earth (Blut und Boden). The rejection of the modern world was disguised as a rebuttal of the capitalistic way of life. The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.

Irrationalism also depends on the cult of action for action’s sake.
Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation. Therefore culture is suspect insofar as it is identified with critical attitudes. Distrust of the intellectual world has always been a symptom of Ur-Fascism, from Hermann Goering’s fondness for a phrase from a Hanns Johst play (“When I hear the word ‘culture’ I reach for my gun”) to the frequent use of such expressions as “degenerate intellectuals,” “eggheads,” “effete snobs,” and “universities are nests of reds.” The official Fascist intellectuals were mainly engaged in attacking modern culture and the liberal intelligentsia for having betrayed traditional values.

The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism.
In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge. For Ur-Fascism, disagreement is treason.

Besides, disagreement is a sign of diversity.
Ur-Fascism grows up and seeks consensus by exploiting and exacerbating the natural fear of difference. The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.

Ur-Fascism derives from individual or social frustration.
That is why one of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups. In our time, when the old “proletarians” are becoming petty bourgeois (and the lumpen are largely excluded from the political scene), the fascism of tomorrow will find its audience in this new majority.

To people who feel deprived of a clear social identity, Ur-Fascism says that their only privilege is the most common one, to be born in the same country.
This is the origin of nationalism. Besides, the only ones who can provide an identity to the nation are its enemies. Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged. The easiest way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia. But the plot must also come from the inside: Jews are usually the best target because they have the advantage of being at the same time inside and outside. In the United States, a prominent instance of the plot obsession is to be found in Pat Robertson’s The New World Order, but, as we have recently seen, there are many others.

The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies.
When I was a boy I was taught to think of Englishmen as the five-meal people. They ate more frequently than the poor but sober Italians. Jews are rich and help each other through a secret web of mutual assistance. However, the followers of Ur-Fascism must also be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak. Fascist governments are condemned to lose wars because they are constitutionally incapable of objectively evaluating the force of the enemy.

For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.
Thus pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. It is bad because life is permanent warfare. This, however, brings about an Armageddon complex. Since enemies have to be defeated, there must be a final battle, after which the movement will have control of the world. But such “final solutions” implies a further era of peace, a Golden Age, which contradicts the principle of permanent war. No fascist leader has ever succeeded in solving this predicament.

Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology, insofar as it is fundamentally aristocratic, and aristocratic and militaristic elitism cruelly implies contempt for the weak.
Ur-Fascism can only advocate a popular elitism. Every citizen belongs to the best people in the world, the members or the party are the best among the citizens, every citizen can (or ought to) become a member of the party. But there cannot be patricians without plebeians. In fact, the Leader, knowing that his power was not delegated to him democratically but was conquered by force, also knows that his force is based upon the weakness of the masses; they are so weak as to need and deserve a ruler.

In such a perspective everybody is educated to become a hero.
In every mythology the hero is an exceptional being, but in Ur-Fascist ideology heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death. It is not by chance that a motto of the Spanish Falangists was Viva la Muerte (“Long Live Death!”). In nonfascist societies, the lay public is told that death is unpleasant but must be faced with dignity; believers are told that it is the painful way to reach a supernatural happiness. By contrast, the Ur-Fascist hero craves heroic death, advertised as the best reward for a heroic life. The Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death.

Since both permanent war and heroism are difficult games to play, the Ur-Fascist transfers his will to power to sexual matters.
This is the origin of machismo (which implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality). Since even sex is a difficult game to play, the Ur-Fascist hero tends to play with weapons — doing so becomes an ersatz phallic exercise.

Ur-Fascism is based upon a selective populism, a qualitative populism, one might say.
In a democracy, the citizens have individual rights, but the citizens in their entirety have a political impact only from a quantitative point of view — one follows the decisions of the majority. For Ur-Fascism, however, individuals as individuals have no rights, and the People is conceived as a quality, a monolithic entity expressing the Common Will. Since no large quantity of human beings can have a common will, the Leader pretends to be their interpreter. Having lost their power of delegation, citizens do not act; they are only called on to play the role of the People. Thus the People is only a theatrical fiction. There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.

Because of its qualitative populism, Ur-Fascism must be against “rotten” parliamentary governments. Wherever a politician casts doubt on the legitimacy of a parliament because it no longer represents the Voice of the People, we can smell Ur-Fascism.

Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak.
Newspeak was invented by Orwell, in Nineteen Eighty-Four, as the official language of what he called Ingsoc, English Socialism. But elements of Ur-Fascism are common to different forms of dictatorship. All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning. But we must be ready to identify other kinds of Newspeak, even if they take the apparently innocent form of a popular talk show.

​

Some infrequent readers may wonder what "Ur-Fascism" is.

Ur-Fascism is based upon a selective populism, a qualitative populism, one might say. In a democracy, the citizens have individual rights, but the citizens in their entirety have a political impact only from a quantitative point of view—one follows the decisions of the majority. For Ur-Fascism, however, individuals as individuals have no rights, and the People is conceived as a quality, a monolithic entity expressing the Common Will. Since no large quantity of human beings can have a common will, the Leader pretends to be their interpreter. Having lost their power of delegation, citizens do not act; they are only called on to play the role of the People. Thus the People is only a theatrical fiction. To have a good instance of qualitative populism we no longer need the Piazza Venezia in Rome or the Nuremberg Stadium. There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.
-- Umberto Eco, "Ur-Fascism," 1995

​

 

[strollingbones]

ahhh i thought you wanted to know how to get a job...my bad

 

[Mac1958]

At least you're now admitting it's opinion.

Good.
.

i edited my post to include quotation marks. & expanded. re read it.

Okay, you appear to still think he's a fascist.

Thanks for your opinion.
.

lol... you can always show me & the other posters on this thread proof that he isn't, other than using the words ' who said so... you?' i'll be delighted to see you try.

So you want me to prove a negative. That would be like some crazed right winger asking me to prove that Obama isn't a Muslim.

I don't know why this bothers you so much. Your opinion is your opinion. That doesn't make it a "fact" or gospel, it just makes it your opinion.

If it's important for your self esteem to convince yourself that your opinion is fact, then great, run with it. That still doesn't make an opinion a fact.
.

lol... if you can't then you can't. & no, it doesn't bother me in anyway you think it might, so don't flatter yourself.
i gave facts. you can't see that. the problem lies with you.

There are facts and there are conclusions.

You are taking facts, leveraging them with bias, and drawing conclusions, and those are opinions.

Just like right wingers who "conclude" that Obama is a Muslim.

You and someone else may be standing in 80 degree heat. The 80 degrees is a fact. Your conclusion is that it's hot. Their conclusion is that it's just right. Opinion.

My goodness, I can't believe I actually had to explain that.
.