I Propose a Motion

[Helios]

I propose to remove the topic Race Relations/Racism, because race is a figment in the imagination of ignorant people, and keeping that topic here only encourages more ignorance. Racism is an invention. Very smart businessmen invented it a long time ago, they figured it would be a pretty useful tool to divide a population. Deep inside, its economic warfare, and you know what the Romans said: Divide, and Conquer. They've been doing a pretty dandy job dividing you, America. Can you guess what comes next?

 

[eots]

I second that..ITS THE ELITE VS THE MASSES my father as a child and his father..lived not much better than slaves with many uncles that died in the coal mines before their 40th birthday..and had to fight and bleed and die in solidarity to get basic safety and livable wages it sure was not given freely. most normal humans want enough to meet their needs and to love and protect their families it a relative handful of megalomaniacs that desire to to amass great wealth and power off the toil and blood of others

 

[Helios]

I second that..ITS THE ELITE VS THE MASSES my father as a child and his father..lived not much better than slaves with many uncles that died in the coal mines before their 40th birthday..and had to fight and bleed and die in solidarity to get basic safety and livable wages it sure was not given freely. most normal humans want enough to meet their needs and to love and protect their families it a relative handful of megalomaniacs that desire to to amass great wealth and power off the toil and blood of others

It's never just blacks, or just Hispanics, or just whites, or just Asians bleeding for America's wellbeing. It's the poor. The companies and corporations that have the real power in Washington, as well as much of the industrial world, have become very adept at exploiting the poor and middle class for exponential profit.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

When the racists on this board quit posting their racist crap we can move on. I suggest you read some of Joyces posts, as well as several other stellar members of the human race.

We have outright "hate everyone but the right color , and some of them don't count" types and we have a few that just hate one race.

Now Joyce thinks he is polished, he always claims he doesn't hate anyone, he just thinks no race mixing should ever occur anywhere. He uses the "separate but equal" argument that was shown to be ignorant over 50 years ago.

He claims that it violates his rights as a white American to have any none whites ( and any whites he happens to dislike as well) working or living or shopping anywhere he can actually see them and be forced to interact with them.

We have another one that thinks using racial slurs is acceptable and correct behavior for a public servant.

We have several that think murdering Jews is a fun past time and that if they would just move to the moon all would be fine, well until they decide they want the moon anyway.

Dead Jewish children, mothers and civilians due to terrorism.... why its all the Jews fault.

As for business, we even have a cadre of haters that think if your rich ( rich being anyone that has more then them) you should be forced to give away all your money and property or your a threat. They further believe that there are secret cabals of rich powerful ( white men of course) men that actually run the world. Elections? All rigged. Congress and the Executive? Paid stooges that do what ever these not so secret white men tell them to do. The Judiciary? A joke, paid to protect the elite and ensure the money and power remain in this secret cabals grasp for ever.

We even have political racists. They believe that being the enlightened saviors of mankind they should be the only ones to tell us neanderthals what to do, of course just for our own good. And the laws they pass to do this, of course those shouldn't apply to them, after all they are our betters, just looking out for us ignorant redneck uneducated masses.

Racism is alive and well here and everywhere. Your claims otherwise not withstanding.

I suspect in the 1950's you would have had a hard sell on that claim around several minority types. And based on postings on THIS board and my personal observations over the last 50 years I find your claim hilarious.

I also suspect those rich minorities that have real verifiable incidents of racism used against them would disagree that just poor people get treated in that manner.

 

[Helios]

When the racists on this board quit posting their racist crap we can move on. I suggest you read some of Joyces posts, as well as several other stellar members of the human race.

We have outright "hate everyone but the right color , and some of them don't count" types and we have a few that just hate one race.

Now Joyce thinks he is polished, he always claims he doesn't hate anyone, he just thinks no race mixing should ever occur anywhere. He uses the "separate but equal" argument that was shown to be ignorant over 50 years ago.

He claims that it violates his rights as a white American to have any none whites ( and any whites he happens to dislike as well) working or living or shopping anywhere he can actually see them and be forced to interact with them.

We have another one that thinks using racial slurs is acceptable and correct behavior for a public servant.

We have several that think murdering Jews is a fun past time and that if they would just move to the moon all would be fine, well until they decide they want the moon anyway.

Dead Jewish children, mothers and civilians due to terrorism.... why its all the Jews fault.

As for business, we even have a cadre of haters that think if your rich ( rich being anyone that has more then them) you should be forced to give away all your money and property or your a threat. They further believe that there are secret cabals of rich powerful ( white men of course) men that actually run the world. Elections? All rigged. Congress and the Executive? Paid stooges that do what ever these not so secret white men tell them to do. The Judiciary? A joke, paid to protect the elite and ensure the money and power remain in this secret cabals grasp for ever.

We even have political racists. They believe that being the enlightened saviors of mankind they should be the only ones to tell us neanderthals what to do, of course just for our own good. And the laws they pass to do this, of course those shouldn't apply to them, after all they are our betters, just looking out for us ignorant redneck uneducated masses.

Racism is alive and well here and everywhere. Your claims otherwise not withstanding.

I suspect in the 1950's you would have had a hard sell on that claim around several minority types. And based on postings on THIS board and my personal observations over the last 50 years I find your claim hilarious.

I also suspect those rich minorities that have real verifiable incidents of racism used against them would disagree that just poor people get treated in that manner.

First of all, I am not referring to what you termed "just poor people." That's where you get me wrong, I refer to the PEOPLE of America, meaning the average man and woman and transgender, native born or otherwise living there. I don't hate the upper-middle class, I believe the upper-middle class consists mainly of people striving ignorantly to become rich, often sacrificing their family lives and emotional sanity in the process.

And I do not hate anyone on the grounds that they are wealthier than me, I have never desired wealth and I find YOUR corrupt economic system rather hilarious. What's even more humorous is your own continued failure to make the connections between the dots that are right in front of your eyes.

"This present window of opportunity, during which a truly peaceful and interdependent world order might be built, will not be open for too long - We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."

-David Rockefeller speaking at the UN, Sept. 14, 1994.

JFK'S Speech, several days before he was assassinated.

I

The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit to the extent that it is in my control. And no official of my Administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to censor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know.

But I do ask every publisher, every editor, and every newsman in the nation to reexamine his own standards, and to recognize the nature of our country's peril. In time of war, the government and the press have customarily joined in an effort based largely on self-discipline, to prevent unauthorized disclosures to the enemy. In time of "clear and present danger," the courts have held that even the privileged rights of the First Amendment must yield to the public's need for national security.

Today no war has been declared--and however fierce the struggle may be, it may never be declared in the traditional fashion. Our way of life is under attack. Those who make themselves our enemy are advancing around the globe. The survival of our friends is in danger. And yet no war has been declared, no borders have been crossed by marching troops, no missiles have been fired.

If the press is awaiting a declaration of war before it imposes the self-discipline of combat conditions, then I can only say that no war ever posed a greater threat to our security. If you are awaiting a finding of "clear and present danger," then I can only say that the danger has never been more clear and its presence has never been more imminent.

It requires a change in outlook, a change in tactics, a change in missions--by the government, by the people, by every businessman or labor leader, and by every newspaper. For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.

Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. It conducts the Cold War, in short, with a war-time discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match.

Nevertheless, every democracy recognizes the necessary restraints of national security--and the question remains whether those restraints need to be more strictly observed if we are to oppose this kind of attack as well as outright invasion.

For the facts of the matter are that this nation's foes have openly boasted of acquiring through our newspapers information they would otherwise hire agents to acquire through theft, bribery or espionage; that details of this nation's covert preparations to counter the enemy's covert operations have been available to every newspaper reader, friend and foe alike; that the size, the strength, the location and the nature of our forces and weapons, and our plans and strategy for their use, have all been pinpointed in the press and other news media to a degree sufficient to satisfy any foreign power; and that, in at least in one case, the publication of details concerning a secret mechanism whereby satellites were followed required its alteration at the expense of considerable time and money.

The newspapers which printed these stories were loyal, patriotic, responsible and well-meaning. Had we been engaged in open warfare, they undoubtedly would not have published such items. But in the absence of open warfare, they recognized only the tests of journalism and not the tests of national security. And my question tonight is whether additional tests should not now be adopted.

The question is for you alone to answer. No public official should answer it for you. No governmental plan should impose its restraints against your will. But I would be failing in my duty to the nation, in considering all of the responsibilities that we now bear and all of the means at hand to meet those responsibilities, if I did not commend this problem to your attention, and urge its thoughtful consideration.

On many earlier occasions, I have said--and your newspapers have constantly said--that these are times that appeal to every citizen's sense of sacrifice and self-discipline. They call out to every citizen to weigh his rights and comforts against his obligations to the common good. I cannot now believe that those citizens who serve in the newspaper business consider themselves exempt from that appeal.

I have no intention of establishing a new Office of War Information to govern the flow of news. I am not suggesting any new forms of censorship or any new types of security classifications. I have no easy answer to the dilemma that I have posed, and would not seek to impose it if I had one. But I am asking the members of the newspaper profession and the industry in this country to reexamine their own responsibilities, to consider the degree and the nature of the present danger, and to heed the duty of self-restraint which that danger imposes upon us all.

Every newspaper now asks itself, with respect to every story: "Is it news?" All I suggest is that you add the question: "Is it in the interest of the national security?" And I hope that every group in America--unions and businessmen and public officials at every level-- will ask the same question of their endeavors, and subject their actions to the same exacting tests.

And should the press of America consider and recommend the voluntary assumption of specific new steps or machinery, I can assure you that we will cooperate whole-heartedly with those recommendations.

Perhaps there will be no recommendations. Perhaps there is no answer to the dilemma faced by a free and open society in a cold and secret war. In times of peace, any discussion of this subject, and any action that results, are both painful and without precedent. But this is a time of peace and peril which knows no precedent in history.

This next one is from that old and obscure document your country is supposedly still based loosely around.

The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

Now I personally believe that they phrased it in a very particular way: "SHALL NOT BE SUSPENDED." Instead of saying you have the right, they insisted that it shall not be suspended unless absolutely necessary. So I ask, why did Bush push the Military Commissions Act, which gives him THE RIGHT TO SUSPEND IT! But hey, its just an old dusty scroll, screw it.




That. Was the tip of the iceberg.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

First of all, I am not referring to what you termed "just poor people." That's where you get me wrong, I refer to the PEOPLE of America, meaning the average man and woman and transgender, native born or otherwise living there. I don't hate the upper-middle class, I believe the upper-middle class consists mainly of people striving ignorantly to become rich, often sacrificing their family lives and emotional sanity in the process.

And I do not hate anyone on the grounds that they are wealthier than me, I have never desired wealth and I find YOUR corrupt economic system rather hilarious. What's even more humorous is your own continued failure to make the connections between the dots that are right in front of your eyes.



JFK'S Speech, several days before he was assassinated.




This next one is from that old and obscure document your country is supposedly still based loosely around.

Now I personally believe that they phrased it in a very particular way: "SHALL NOT BE SUSPENDED." Instead of saying you have the right, they insisted that it shall not be suspended unless absolutely necessary. So I ask, why did Bush push the Military Commissions Act, which gives him THE RIGHT TO SUSPEND IT! But hey, its just an old dusty scroll, screw it.




That. Was the tip of the iceberg.

And of course your total lack of knowledge on our Government, how it works and the checks and balances is just so telling. You are aware of course that the portion of the patriot act that suspended Habeaus Corpus has been determined to not be valid, by "gasp" the courts, as required by our Constitution and tradition. What CONGRESS ( not the President) creates and the President signs can still be over turned by an Independent Judiciary.

Your either another dumbass foreigner or more likely a US hating Citizen of the very Country that protects your sorry butt so you can make biased ignorant claims against it.

 

[Gunny]

I propose to remove the topic Race Relations/Racism, because race is a figment in the imagination of ignorant people, and keeping that topic here only encourages more ignorance. Racism is an invention. Very smart businessmen invented it a long time ago, they figured it would be a pretty useful tool to divide a population. Deep inside, its economic warfare, and you know what the Romans said: Divide, and Conquer. They've been doing a pretty dandy job dividing you, America. Can you guess what comes next?

Whether or not you consider racism itself real, the topic is VERY real and discussed enough that it should have its own forum instead of being spread all over the board.

Your argument has merit, but only at simplistic level. IMO, it's the politicians that use MANY divisive means of whch race is only one to keep the people squabbling and distracted so they can carry on their bureaucracy, of which businessmen only play a part.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What should we as board members do about this grand conspiracy to hijack the board? Eots and his Cabal of evil conspiracy buddies must be identified and stopped. GunnyL? Tell me your not in on the plot. Maybe our new owner is secretly a member of this cabal? Jillian have you been "turned"?

 

[jillian]

What should we as board members do about this grand conspiracy to hijack the board? Eots and his Cabal of evil conspiracy buddies must be identified and stopped. GunnyL? Tell me your not in on the plot. Maybe our new owner is secretly a member of this cabal? Jillian have you been "turned"?

Wait... give me a second... let me check

v
v
v
v
v
v
v

Er... nope.

 

[Helios]

I'm not ignorant as to how the system of checks and balances is SUPPOSED to work, but that's not how it works anymore buddy. The Congress is a rich gang protecting the interests of guess who? The rich. On a purely SIMPLE level, why would you expect them to protect your rights? I don't care about democratic/republican distinctions, they have no real merit anymore. If you look at American foreign and domestic policy over the past 100 years, it hasn't changed dramatically, although under Clinton we had a period of relative tranquility.. the calm before the storm? Instead of posting broad claims that I'm wrong, how about some specific evidence or credible articles? *GASP* That might be nice.

And there is no reason to be impolite. Conduct yourself in a manner becoming of a public servant, instead of a hateful bigot. Wake up and smell the brewing bullshit.

 

[jillian]

I'm all for civility. Did you read your first post to me? Just wondering.

 

[Shogun]

Good Job, guys!




excellent work being consistent.

 

[Bern80]

I'm not ignorant as to how the system of checks and balances is SUPPOSED to work, but that's not how it works anymore buddy. The Congress is a rich gang protecting the interests of guess who? The rich. On a purely SIMPLE level, why would you expect them to protect your rights? I don't care about democratic/republican distinctions, they have no real merit anymore. If you look at American foreign and domestic policy over the past 100 years, it hasn't changed dramatically, although under Clinton we had a period of relative tranquility.. the calm before the storm? Instead of posting broad claims that I'm wrong, how about some specific evidence or credible articles? *GASP* That might be nice.

And there is no reason to be impolite. Conduct yourself in a manner becoming of a public servant, instead of a hateful bigot. Wake up and smell the brewing bullshit.

Your dislike for the rich wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that you aren't, would it? Or have never tried to become so.

I imagine if you had you would know their behavior, personality, and character are vastly different then the ignorant stroke you have painted them with.

 

[Gunny]

I'm not ignorant as to how the system of checks and balances is SUPPOSED to work, but that's not how it works anymore buddy. The Congress is a rich gang protecting the interests of guess who? The rich. On a purely SIMPLE level, why would you expect them to protect your rights? I don't care about democratic/republican distinctions, they have no real merit anymore. If you look at American foreign and domestic policy over the past 100 years, it hasn't changed dramatically, although under Clinton we had a period of relative tranquility.. the calm before the storm? Instead of posting broad claims that I'm wrong, how about some specific evidence or credible articles? *GASP* That might be nice.

And there is no reason to be impolite. Conduct yourself in a manner becoming of a public servant, instead of a hateful bigot. Wake up and smell the brewing bullshit.

I criticized your argument, not you, and was not impolite. On the other hand, don't presume to tell me what forums should and should not be on this board, nor how you think I should conduct myself.

If you have concerns regarding either the board, it's content, a staff member and or their conduct, feel free to go read the rules which are very specific on how to handle it.