I need a mathematician

[MaggieMae]

Okay, aside from what Midnight pointed out, you are so full of myths it's sad ... the scary part is that too many people still believe these same myths.

Obesity as defined by the government is not the unhealthy people, it's just people who don't fit in the outdated and already proven inaccurate BMI. Meaning, even the healthiest athletes are considered obese.

That's one myth. Their healthcare does not cost more than anyone else. Heart attacks are more common among "skinny" people who live with a lot of stress than people who are "obese", statistics on this keep changing based on the products they are endorsing, that should be your clue there.

Lastly, "sin" taxes just don't work.

<Sigh...>

Obesity: Epidemic of Enormous Proportions Becoming Big Problem for Bottom Line | Reuters

A myth? What flavor Kool-Aid have you been slurping lately Kit? You've suddenly developed a brand new skin. Just Google "obesity becoming epidemic" and start reading, if you think I'm making this up based on "myth." I have two nieces who are overweight because their parents allow them to everything they want eat all day. Unfortunately, they are now approaching pre-teen and already becoming extremely sensitive to the giggles and putdowns. So there's the mental and emotional aspect to this as well, which is completely unnecessary.

And the "sin tax" on cigarettes has most certainly worked in getting people to quit. But the void which might come from no longer having that tax available is something to be dealt with not in the immediate future. In the meantime, health care costs for smokers who quit are reduced, so which is more important NOW?

So what is it you want? A sin tax on eating due to the failure of people to take personsibility for their own habits?

Would you rather pay for their health care as a result of their bad habits? Look, all I'm doing is tossing out an option. Using your logic, my property taxes shouldn't be going to pay for schooling for kids whose parents rent. There are literally hundreds of taxes we all pay that benefit someone other than ourselves.

 

[MaggieMae]

If the sales-tax-for-all folks ever have their way, the soda will be over-taxed anyway. Are you trying to tell me people who buy a lot of soda wouldn't be willing to pay another $.05? Of COURSE they would.

Not if they only buy DIET soda....

Good idea. No tax on diet products.

 

[MaggieMae]

I ate like a pig as a child, but I played like a maniac....

much of this has to do with the lack of exercise.... we didn't have tvs in the house, we had A TV, and black and withe one at that, which DAD controlled.

We played outside, and we played hard...running, jumping, softball, kickball and teatherball...then when older, tennis and hiking and canoeing, and for me, cheerleading and gymnastics...we had gym every day of the week in school... we had no soda machines in school nor snack machines, you made your lunch or you got it from the cafeteria line....

I did skip my studyhall to go to mcdonalds every day, to grease it up, and after cheerleading practice or a game, would go to the local icecream shop with friends and eat a banana split or icecream soda for goodness sakes and if I weighed in a mere 100 lbs at 5'3''(and a half )it would have been a miracle!

There are things we can do to actually HELP the obese, starting with our children, and teaching them to live a healthy lifestyle by enjoying outdoor sports and activities instead of sitting in front of a video game muNching on chips and drinking soda... make it fun to be outdoors and with other people, in REAL LIFE! YA know what i mean?

I can't improve on that. The question becomes WHAT HAPPENED?! If kids never knew anything other than the way WE conducted ourselves (especially in school), they would be just as happy. I blame school boards who kow to the demands of parents who kow to the demands of their spoiled children. When I was on our school board several years ago, you should have heard the outrage when it was proposed that chocoloate milk replace Coke in the vending machines. I mean CHOCOLATE milk!! But noooooooo....

 

[Cecilie1200]

Proposing another "sin" tax again ... what's next, taxing beef?

Look up the obesity rate, dear. As a health problem, it now surpasses cigarette smoking. Yes, I'm ALL FOR taxing shit that causes people to unnecessarily need costly health care. It's a no-brainer.

Social control thru taxes....

That's a "winner" Hitler had!

Maybe if busybodies like Maggie were "all for" minding their own business on paying for things, they could start being "all for" minding their own damned business on how people live their lives and what they choose to eat. The mind boggles at the arrogance implicit in "I barged into your life uninvited in this area, so that gives me the right to be outraged about THIS aspect of your life and try to control it, too."

And has anyone noticed that the same people who loudly declaim about "privacy" and "keep your laws off my body" and "freedom of choice" in one issue are absolutely gung-ho about having the government crawling up our asses with microscopes in everything else? Isn't it just a bit hypocritical to make angry speeches about Puritanical moralists who just want to impose their own values on others, and then become one yourself?

 

[DamnYankee]

luxury taxes may not work, but i really think you guys are wrong, in general, about true ''sin'' tax products...

of course they work! (until a certain point, but a much higher echelon than one would think)

i say this, because sin taxes are put on to ''ADDICTIVE'' products, not that everyone that smokes a cigarette is addicted to the nicotine but i would venture to say that 90% of them are, in varying degrees...

and liquor can also be an addictive product(alcoholism) as well...a ''feel good'' product to the mind that is used by many, just to unwind.

and soda has caffeine in it which is addictive...

our government is NOT trying to punish the sinners in to not sinning...they are preying on the vulnerable who are addicted to these type products...they are preying on an ADDICT to pay for someone elses healthcare, or some other businesses tax break, or whatever project or pet peeve of SOMEONE ELSE!

if smokers were taxed, then given a healthcare policy for this tax specifically designed for themselves, that'd be one thing.

or if liquor drinkers were taxed and they were given a healthcare policy specifically designed to be best for them and their health needs would be another thing...

but to tax these so called vices, (when they truly have people hooked already due to the prominent drug in its addictive quality) for someone elses kid's healthcare or pet project or a tax break to their favored industry, is simply unethical!

NOT to mention, these are regressive taxes that hit the poor and middle class more in mere numbers...

more so than the wealthiest.

care

I'd agree with that if it weren't for the fact that, at least in the case of tobacco products, statistics show that it is now the lower income and less educated who indulge in the "sin" and, therefore, are being targetted to pay for the very health care that the government keeps reminding you that they don't have and can't afford.

That's true, and the same would be true by taxing junk food. It's all part of that overall cycle of poverty which engenders crime, STDs, multiple births (thus welfare), and bad habits. I don't think any of us will see any solution in our lifetimes, but I do think poverty could be reduced by massive community action concentrated on education, both academically and socially.

In some states, ALL food is taxable. Be that as it may, "junk food" is indeed taxed, in some places at least, and it seems not to matter because it can still be purchased with food stamps as it is considered food.

It used to be, before June of 2007, that soft drinks were only carbonated. after June of 2007, that distinction was lost. Now a soft drink, other than dairy is anything that is consumed for its flavor taste, or refreshment whether or not it is carbonated or not. Iced Tea is now classified as a soft drink and is taxable.
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/pdf/pubs/sales/su4.pdf

Bad policy to disallow soda purchase with food stamps

Perhaps you ought to address your concerns with those who allow this, while they tell us about the dangers of obesity and the mammouth proportions of the "epidemic".

 

[DamnYankee]

<Sigh...>

Obesity: Epidemic of Enormous Proportions Becoming Big Problem for Bottom Line | Reuters

A myth? What flavor Kool-Aid have you been slurping lately Kit? You've suddenly developed a brand new skin. Just Google "obesity becoming epidemic" and start reading, if you think I'm making this up based on "myth." I have two nieces who are overweight because their parents allow them to everything they want eat all day. Unfortunately, they are now approaching pre-teen and already becoming extremely sensitive to the giggles and putdowns. So there's the mental and emotional aspect to this as well, which is completely unnecessary.

And the "sin tax" on cigarettes has most certainly worked in getting people to quit. But the void which might come from no longer having that tax available is something to be dealt with not in the immediate future. In the meantime, health care costs for smokers who quit are reduced, so which is more important NOW?

So what is it you want? A sin tax on eating due to the failure of people to take personsibility for their own habits?

Would you rather pay for their health care as a result of their bad habits? Look, all I'm doing is tossing out an option. Using your logic, my property taxes shouldn't be going to pay for schooling for kids whose parents rent. There are literally hundreds of taxes we all pay that benefit someone other than ourselves.

I'd rather they paid for it themselves -- using the money they spend on that rather expensive junk food that's putting them in high-risk categories. Does the "literally hundreds of taxes" justify more? Or should we not look for solutions and use of "public funds" for true public health issues?

 

[Care4all]

I ate like a pig as a child, but I played like a maniac....

much of this has to do with the lack of exercise.... we didn't have tvs in the house, we had A TV, and black and withe one at that, which DAD controlled.

We played outside, and we played hard...running, jumping, softball, kickball and teatherball...then when older, tennis and hiking and canoeing, and for me, cheerleading and gymnastics...we had gym every day of the week in school... we had no soda machines in school nor snack machines, you made your lunch or you got it from the cafeteria line....

I did skip my studyhall to go to mcdonalds every day, to grease it up, and after cheerleading practice or a game, would go to the local icecream shop with friends and eat a banana split or icecream soda for goodness sakes and if I weighed in a mere 100 lbs at 5'3''(and a half )it would have been a miracle!

There are things we can do to actually HELP the obese, starting with our children, and teaching them to live a healthy lifestyle by enjoying outdoor sports and activities instead of sitting in front of a video game muNching on chips and drinking soda... make it fun to be outdoors and with other people, in REAL LIFE! YA know what i mean?

I can't improve on that. The question becomes WHAT HAPPENED?! If kids never knew anything other than the way WE conducted ourselves (especially in school), they would be just as happy. I blame school boards who kow to the demands of parents who kow to the demands of their spoiled children. When I was on our school board several years ago, you should have heard the outrage when it was proposed that chocoloate milk replace Coke in the vending machines. I mean CHOCOLATE milk!! But noooooooo....

budgets, money....?

Boards began cutting gym so they could meet math requirements and other requirements, when their money ran out....?

POOR MANAGEMENT...?

paying Administrators too much?

Waste?

Lack of parental involvement or parental ignorance on how important gym really was...and kow towing to the kids as you mentioned?

I dunno what caused it specifically, but i can bet it had something to do with some of the things i guessed above.....

Care

 

[Navy1960]

Care you touched on something I think thats worth mentioning here, and that goes to what the end results of poor legislation meant to regulate behavior actually do.

More than 300 first- and second-year teachers and staff will not return next school year after the Peoria Unified School District governing board approved layoffs Monday night.

The layoffs come as other districts across the Valley warn staff that they may not return next school year.

Peoiria Unified officials attribute the number of layoffs to a drop in enrollment, reductions in state funding and cuts to other areas. The district is projecting a $28 million shortfall for next school year.

Thats just in my district alone here in Arizona Care and when I see things such as a Stimulus package that builds tunnels for Turtles, enhances the lives of mice, regualtes gas emissions from cows, and take that in conjunction with proposed legislation that that is being batted around to somehow regulate lifestyles it shows me just how misdirected and out of touch people in Washington DC really are. The facts are people don't need a Govt. to tell them how to make choices in life, that is what we all make for ourselves be they good ones or bad ones that is up to us. Nothing could be more of a bedrock principle of Freedom in my mind than that. I do find it somewhat interesting that the same people would shout to the rafters for privacy and freedom of choice when it comes to other issues then willingly in the name of personal comfort invite the Govt. into their lives for others as if the two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[MaggieMae]

I'd agree with that if it weren't for the fact that, at least in the case of tobacco products, statistics show that it is now the lower income and less educated who indulge in the "sin" and, therefore, are being targetted to pay for the very health care that the government keeps reminding you that they don't have and can't afford.

That's true, and the same would be true by taxing junk food. It's all part of that overall cycle of poverty which engenders crime, STDs, multiple births (thus welfare), and bad habits. I don't think any of us will see any solution in our lifetimes, but I do think poverty could be reduced by massive community action concentrated on education, both academically and socially.

In some states, ALL food is taxable. Be that as it may, "junk food" is indeed taxed, in some places at least, and it seems not to matter because it can still be purchased with food stamps as it is considered food.

It used to be, before June of 2007, that soft drinks were only carbonated. after June of 2007, that distinction was lost. Now a soft drink, other than dairy is anything that is consumed for its flavor taste, or refreshment whether or not it is carbonated or not. Iced Tea is now classified as a soft drink and is taxable.
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/pdf/pubs/sales/su4.pdf

Bad policy to disallow soda purchase with food stamps

Perhaps you ought to address your concerns with those who allow this, while they tell us about the dangers of obesity and the mammouth proportions of the "epidemic".

Actually, I think disallowing junk food from food stamp allocations would be a great idea.

 

[DamnYankee]

That's true, and the same would be true by taxing junk food. It's all part of that overall cycle of poverty which engenders crime, STDs, multiple births (thus welfare), and bad habits. I don't think any of us will see any solution in our lifetimes, but I do think poverty could be reduced by massive community action concentrated on education, both academically and socially.

In some states, ALL food is taxable. Be that as it may, "junk food" is indeed taxed, in some places at least, and it seems not to matter because it can still be purchased with food stamps as it is considered food.

It used to be, before June of 2007, that soft drinks were only carbonated. after June of 2007, that distinction was lost. Now a soft drink, other than dairy is anything that is consumed for its flavor taste, or refreshment whether or not it is carbonated or not. Iced Tea is now classified as a soft drink and is taxable.
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/pdf/pubs/sales/su4.pdf

Bad policy to disallow soda purchase with food stamps

Perhaps you ought to address your concerns with those who allow this, while they tell us about the dangers of obesity and the mammouth proportions of the "epidemic".

Actually, I think disallowing junk food from food stamp allocations would be a great idea.

You going to DO anything about it? A letter to your reps maybe? Or I have the email address to the WH....

 

[MaggieMae]

Care you touched on something I think thats worth mentioning here, and that goes to what the end results of poor legislation meant to regulate behavior actually do.

More than 300 first- and second-year teachers and staff will not return next school year after the Peoria Unified School District governing board approved layoffs Monday night.

The layoffs come as other districts across the Valley warn staff that they may not return next school year.

Peoiria Unified officials attribute the number of layoffs to a drop in enrollment, reductions in state funding and cuts to other areas. The district is projecting a $28 million shortfall for next school year.

Thats just in my district alone here in Arizona Care and when I see things such as a Stimulus package that builds tunnels for Turtles, enhances the lives of mice, regualtes gas emissions from cows, and take that in conjunction with proposed legislation that that is being batted around to somehow regulate lifestyles it shows me just how misdirected and out of touch people in Washington DC really are. The facts are people don't need a Govt. to tell them how to make choices in life, that is what we all make for ourselves be they good ones or bad ones that is up to us. Nothing could be more of a bedrock principle of Freedom in my mind than that. I do find it somewhat interesting that the same people would shout to the rafters for privacy and freedom of choice when it comes to other issues then willingly in the name of personal comfort invite the Govt. into their lives for others as if the two are not mutually exclusive.

I love the way you continue to embellish items from the Stimulus Bill to make them appear silly. Maybe you should read up on why some states included such things as projects qualifying for some of the funds in order to make a sensible, adult analysis.

The "turtle" tunnel in Florida is meant to protect drivers who come to a screeching halt in the middle of traffic as one lazily crosses the road . (Worth the money? Since I don't live in Florida and neither do you, I don't know for sure, but it is hardly just a simple "turtle crossing.")

Nothing "regulates" cow emissions. Funding SHOULD be available to subsidize dairy farmers who already know (and are using) the technology to turn the methane gas from cow manure into electricity. I already pay 4% extra on my utility bill to help fund the few farmers in my state who were lucky enough to get private loans to build the very expensive process.

And finally, protecting a valuable wetland in San Franciso hardly involves a push to protect the mice that live there.

 

[MaggieMae]

In some states, ALL food is taxable. Be that as it may, "junk food" is indeed taxed, in some places at least, and it seems not to matter because it can still be purchased with food stamps as it is considered food.

It used to be, before June of 2007, that soft drinks were only carbonated. after June of 2007, that distinction was lost. Now a soft drink, other than dairy is anything that is consumed for its flavor taste, or refreshment whether or not it is carbonated or not. Iced Tea is now classified as a soft drink and is taxable.
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/pdf/pubs/sales/su4.pdf

Bad policy to disallow soda purchase with food stamps

Perhaps you ought to address your concerns with those who allow this, while they tell us about the dangers of obesity and the mammouth proportions of the "epidemic".

Actually, I think disallowing junk food from food stamp allocations would be a great idea.

You going to DO anything about it? A letter to your reps maybe? Or I have the email address to the WH....

I know my representatives personally and will pass it along. I already know what one would say: A tradeoff would be covering toilet paper. What goes in, must come out.

 

[DamnYankee]

Care you touched on something I think thats worth mentioning here, and that goes to what the end results of poor legislation meant to regulate behavior actually do.

More than 300 first- and second-year teachers and staff will not return next school year after the Peoria Unified School District governing board approved layoffs Monday night.

The layoffs come as other districts across the Valley warn staff that they may not return next school year.

Peoiria Unified officials attribute the number of layoffs to a drop in enrollment, reductions in state funding and cuts to other areas. The district is projecting a $28 million shortfall for next school year.

Thats just in my district alone here in Arizona Care and when I see things such as a Stimulus package that builds tunnels for Turtles, enhances the lives of mice, regualtes gas emissions from cows, and take that in conjunction with proposed legislation that that is being batted around to somehow regulate lifestyles it shows me just how misdirected and out of touch people in Washington DC really are. The facts are people don't need a Govt. to tell them how to make choices in life, that is what we all make for ourselves be they good ones or bad ones that is up to us. Nothing could be more of a bedrock principle of Freedom in my mind than that. I do find it somewhat interesting that the same people would shout to the rafters for privacy and freedom of choice when it comes to other issues then willingly in the name of personal comfort invite the Govt. into their lives for others as if the two are not mutually exclusive.

I love the way you continue to embellish items from the Stimulus Bill to make them appear silly. Maybe you should read up on why some states included such things as projects qualifying for some of the funds in order to make a sensible, adult analysis.

The "turtle" tunnel in Florida is meant to protect drivers who come to a screeching halt in the middle of traffic as one lazily crosses the road . (Worth the money? Since I don't live in Florida and neither do you, I don't know for sure, but it is hardly just a simple "turtle crossing."

Nothing "regulates" cow emissions. Funding SHOULD be available to subsidies dairy farmers who already know (and are using) the technology to turn the methane gas from cow manure into electricity. I already pay 4% extra on my utility bill to help fund the few farmers in my state who were lucky enough to get private loans to build the very expensive process.

And finally, protecting a valuable wetland in San Franciso hardly involves a push to protect the mice that live there.

Wow... So we're stimulating the cows for "energy". How innovative! Ever wonder why there are so many food recalls, including BEEF?

Stimulus conference report cuts funds for USDA computers - Nextgov

You don't suppose that what you eat should have a slightly higher priority than creating energy when it comes to livestock, do you?

 

[DamnYankee]

Actually, I think disallowing junk food from food stamp allocations would be a great idea.

You going to DO anything about it? A letter to your reps maybe? Or I have the email address to the WH....

I know my representatives personally and will pass it along. I already know what one would say: A tradeoff would be covering toilet paper. What goes in, must come out.

Having a healthy sense of humor, I fail to see any here....

 

[Navy1960]

Care you touched on something I think thats worth mentioning here, and that goes to what the end results of poor legislation meant to regulate behavior actually do.

More than 300 first- and second-year teachers and staff will not return next school year after the Peoria Unified School District governing board approved layoffs Monday night.

The layoffs come as other districts across the Valley warn staff that they may not return next school year.

Peoiria Unified officials attribute the number of layoffs to a drop in enrollment, reductions in state funding and cuts to other areas. The district is projecting a $28 million shortfall for next school year.

Thats just in my district alone here in Arizona Care and when I see things such as a Stimulus package that builds tunnels for Turtles, enhances the lives of mice, regualtes gas emissions from cows, and take that in conjunction with proposed legislation that that is being batted around to somehow regulate lifestyles it shows me just how misdirected and out of touch people in Washington DC really are. The facts are people don't need a Govt. to tell them how to make choices in life, that is what we all make for ourselves be they good ones or bad ones that is up to us. Nothing could be more of a bedrock principle of Freedom in my mind than that. I do find it somewhat interesting that the same people would shout to the rafters for privacy and freedom of choice when it comes to other issues then willingly in the name of personal comfort invite the Govt. into their lives for others as if the two are not mutually exclusive.

I love the way you continue to embellish items from the Stimulus Bill to make them appear silly. Maybe you should read up on why some states included such things as projects qualifying for some of the funds in order to make a sensible, adult analysis.

The "turtle" tunnel in Florida is meant to protect drivers who come to a screeching halt in the middle of traffic as one lazily crosses the road . (Worth the money? Since I don't live in Florida and neither do you, I don't know for sure, but it is hardly just a simple "turtle crossing."

Nothing "regulates" cow emissions. Funding SHOULD be available to subsidies dairy farmers who already know (and are using) the technology to turn the methane gas from cow manure into electricity. I already pay 4% extra on my utility bill to help fund the few farmers in my state who were lucky enough to get private loans to build the very expensive process.

And finally, protecting a valuable wetland in San Franciso hardly involves a push to protect the mice that live there.

Maggie, I have told you in many different threads what these projects are and they are well documented. I'm sorry Maggie that you would think that funding for such nonsense at the expense of real jobs is embellishment. I call it nonsense you call it embellishment, I suspect the 300 teachers though here in Peoria might tend to agree with me more so than you. In fact I suspect the 2.6 million people who have lost their jobs since it's passage might find spending millions upon millions of dollars on useless nonsense that does not not create any long term jobs as anywhere close to what you would call embellishment. I won't turn this thread into a debate over the stimulus that you would lose and have everytime we debated this issue, but the main thrust of what I was saying was to point out that legislation in general meant to socially engineer almost always nets negative results.

 

[Care4all]

Care you touched on something I think thats worth mentioning here, and that goes to what the end results of poor legislation meant to regulate behavior actually do.

More than 300 first- and second-year teachers and staff will not return next school year after the Peoria Unified School District governing board approved layoffs Monday night.

The layoffs come as other districts across the Valley warn staff that they may not return next school year.

Peoiria Unified officials attribute the number of layoffs to a drop in enrollment, reductions in state funding and cuts to other areas. The district is projecting a $28 million shortfall for next school year.

Thats just in my district alone here in Arizona Care and when I see things such as a Stimulus package that builds tunnels for Turtles, enhances the lives of mice, regualtes gas emissions from cows, and take that in conjunction with proposed legislation that that is being batted around to somehow regulate lifestyles it shows me just how misdirected and out of touch people in Washington DC really are. The facts are people don't need a Govt. to tell them how to make choices in life, that is what we all make for ourselves be they good ones or bad ones that is up to us. Nothing could be more of a bedrock principle of Freedom in my mind than that. I do find it somewhat interesting that the same people would shout to the rafters for privacy and freedom of choice when it comes to other issues then willingly in the name of personal comfort invite the Govt. into their lives for others as if the two are not mutually exclusive.

I love the way you continue to embellish items from the Stimulus Bill to make them appear silly. Maybe you should read up on why some states included such things as projects qualifying for some of the funds in order to make a sensible, adult analysis.

The "turtle" tunnel in Florida is meant to protect drivers who come to a screeching halt in the middle of traffic as one lazily crosses the road . (Worth the money? Since I don't live in Florida and neither do you, I don't know for sure, but it is hardly just a simple "turtle crossing."

Nothing "regulates" cow emissions. Funding SHOULD be available to subsidies dairy farmers who already know (and are using) the technology to turn the methane gas from cow manure into electricity. I already pay 4% extra on my utility bill to help fund the few farmers in my state who were lucky enough to get private loans to build the very expensive process.

And finally, protecting a valuable wetland in San Franciso hardly involves a push to protect the mice that live there.

Maggie, I have told you in many different threads what these projects are and they are well documented. I'm sorry Maggie that you would think that funding for such nonsense at the expense of real jobs is embellishment. I call it nonsense you call it embellishment, I suspect the 300 teachers though here in Peoria might tend to agree with me more so than you. In fact I suspect the 2.6 million people who have lost their jobs since it's passage might find spending millions upon millions of dollars on useless nonsense that does not not create any long term jobs as anywhere close to what you would call embellishment. I won't turn this thread into a debate over the stimulus that you would lose and have everytime we debated this issue, but the main thrust of what I was saying was to point out that legislation in general meant to socially engineer almost always nets negative results.

republicans/conservatives are DEAD SET AGAINST federal funding of our state public schools aren't they? ISN'T this a huge thing with them? education belongs to the states?

 

[MaggieMae]

Care you touched on something I think thats worth mentioning here, and that goes to what the end results of poor legislation meant to regulate behavior actually do.

More than 300 first- and second-year teachers and staff will not return next school year after the Peoria Unified School District governing board approved layoffs Monday night.

The layoffs come as other districts across the Valley warn staff that they may not return next school year.

Peoiria Unified officials attribute the number of layoffs to a drop in enrollment, reductions in state funding and cuts to other areas. The district is projecting a $28 million shortfall for next school year.

Thats just in my district alone here in Arizona Care and when I see things such as a Stimulus package that builds tunnels for Turtles, enhances the lives of mice, regualtes gas emissions from cows, and take that in conjunction with proposed legislation that that is being batted around to somehow regulate lifestyles it shows me just how misdirected and out of touch people in Washington DC really are. The facts are people don't need a Govt. to tell them how to make choices in life, that is what we all make for ourselves be they good ones or bad ones that is up to us. Nothing could be more of a bedrock principle of Freedom in my mind than that. I do find it somewhat interesting that the same people would shout to the rafters for privacy and freedom of choice when it comes to other issues then willingly in the name of personal comfort invite the Govt. into their lives for others as if the two are not mutually exclusive.

I love the way you continue to embellish items from the Stimulus Bill to make them appear silly. Maybe you should read up on why some states included such things as projects qualifying for some of the funds in order to make a sensible, adult analysis.

The "turtle" tunnel in Florida is meant to protect drivers who come to a screeching halt in the middle of traffic as one lazily crosses the road . (Worth the money? Since I don't live in Florida and neither do you, I don't know for sure, but it is hardly just a simple "turtle crossing."

Nothing "regulates" cow emissions. Funding SHOULD be available to subsidies dairy farmers who already know (and are using) the technology to turn the methane gas from cow manure into electricity. I already pay 4% extra on my utility bill to help fund the few farmers in my state who were lucky enough to get private loans to build the very expensive process.

And finally, protecting a valuable wetland in San Franciso hardly involves a push to protect the mice that live there.

Wow... So we're stimulating the cows for "energy". How innovative! Ever wonder why there are so many food recalls, including BEEF?

Stimulus conference report cuts funds for USDA computers - Nextgov

You don't suppose that what you eat should have a slightly higher priority than creating energy when it comes to livestock, do you?

One thing has nothing to do with the other, and neither does your link. The farts don't enter the food chain. And yes, "cow power" is just one more alternative energy option already technologically proven to work.

Despite obstacles, optimism remains for &#39;cow power&#39;

 

[MaggieMae]

You going to DO anything about it? A letter to your reps maybe? Or I have the email address to the WH....

I know my representatives personally and will pass it along. I already know what one would say: A tradeoff would be covering toilet paper. What goes in, must come out.

Having a healthy sense of humor, I fail to see any here....

The comment wasn't meant to be insulting; just common sense simply stated. Some sundries, such as toilet paper, are often just as important as what you ate that caused you to need some. But nothing inedible is covered by food stamps.

 

[MaggieMae]

Care you touched on something I think thats worth mentioning here, and that goes to what the end results of poor legislation meant to regulate behavior actually do.

More than 300 first- and second-year teachers and staff will not return next school year after the Peoria Unified School District governing board approved layoffs Monday night.

The layoffs come as other districts across the Valley warn staff that they may not return next school year.

Peoiria Unified officials attribute the number of layoffs to a drop in enrollment, reductions in state funding and cuts to other areas. The district is projecting a $28 million shortfall for next school year.

Thats just in my district alone here in Arizona Care and when I see things such as a Stimulus package that builds tunnels for Turtles, enhances the lives of mice, regualtes gas emissions from cows, and take that in conjunction with proposed legislation that that is being batted around to somehow regulate lifestyles it shows me just how misdirected and out of touch people in Washington DC really are. The facts are people don't need a Govt. to tell them how to make choices in life, that is what we all make for ourselves be they good ones or bad ones that is up to us. Nothing could be more of a bedrock principle of Freedom in my mind than that. I do find it somewhat interesting that the same people would shout to the rafters for privacy and freedom of choice when it comes to other issues then willingly in the name of personal comfort invite the Govt. into their lives for others as if the two are not mutually exclusive.

I love the way you continue to embellish items from the Stimulus Bill to make them appear silly. Maybe you should read up on why some states included such things as projects qualifying for some of the funds in order to make a sensible, adult analysis.

The "turtle" tunnel in Florida is meant to protect drivers who come to a screeching halt in the middle of traffic as one lazily crosses the road . (Worth the money? Since I don't live in Florida and neither do you, I don't know for sure, but it is hardly just a simple "turtle crossing."

Nothing "regulates" cow emissions. Funding SHOULD be available to subsidies dairy farmers who already know (and are using) the technology to turn the methane gas from cow manure into electricity. I already pay 4% extra on my utility bill to help fund the few farmers in my state who were lucky enough to get private loans to build the very expensive process.

And finally, protecting a valuable wetland in San Franciso hardly involves a push to protect the mice that live there.

Maggie, I have told you in many different threads what these projects are and they are well documented. I'm sorry Maggie that you would think that funding for such nonsense at the expense of real jobs is embellishment. I call it nonsense you call it embellishment, I suspect the 300 teachers though here in Peoria might tend to agree with me more so than you. In fact I suspect the 2.6 million people who have lost their jobs since it's passage might find spending millions upon millions of dollars on useless nonsense that does not not create any long term jobs as anywhere close to what you would call embellishment. I won't turn this thread into a debate over the stimulus that you would lose and have everytime we debated this issue, but the main thrust of what I was saying was to point out that legislation in general meant to socially engineer almost always nets negative results.

Let's just take the turtle crossing, since that one seems to be the most "nonsensical." The Lake Jackson Ecopassage, an extensive construction project along U.S. Highway 27 near Tallahassee, Florida, has been in the works for nearly a decade. Who do you think is building it? Men from Mars?

 

[Navy1960]

The report said the area "has the highest road-kill mortality rate for turtles in the world." But it also suggests other uses for the money, and mentions Florida State University's plans to lay off 200 faculty and staff members in hopes of saving millions of dollars.
Officials at the Florida Department of Transportation defended the project as one that not only would save turtles but also protect motorists. "A lot of these turtles are quite large. They get hit by a car, and they turn into flying objects," said Josh Boan, the department's natural resources manager.

Construction on the tunnel is to begin in September. State officials could not estimate how many jobs would be created." LA Times

Thats a turtle tunnel, Maggie be serious here for a moment, while your love for these turtles is admirable and am sure well meaning, the number of jobs that it will create are virtually none. Why because once the project is done the jobs are done. I'm quite sure that the 200 people laid off at FSU might think of a better use of 3.4 million dollars. The difference here is this, if the state of Fl. had wanted these turtles protected on a LOCAL road then the state of Fl. should RAISE LOCAL revenue to fix a LOCAL issue. The other problem with this is that it does not stimulate a thing other than help turtle cross the road without being smashed by cars. While you may think that this issue is so pressing that it requires attention of your tax dollars, I'd suggest you donate money for its completion. You do understand the difference between a "job" and temporary work right? In fact this project is so off the scale of stimulus spending that the state cannot even estimate the number of jobs it will save or create. So please spare me the job creation comments , I'd rather you at least go for the environmental argument, even though saving turtles at the expense of human beings is a little hard to justify to me.



Construction on the tunnel is to begin in September. State officials could not estimate how many jobs would be created.

Tax Dollars Down the Dumper for Turtles: $3.4 Million of Stimulus Money Slotted for Building 1 Turtle Tunnel « Frugal Café Blog Zone