I may have gotten the impeachment thing all wrong

[Slade3200]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

The House had their clown show and nobody on the left objected. They did what they want, silenced who they wanted, and conducted it their way. Now the Senate is doing the same, and all of a sudden it's unfair.

Let me tell you what's unfair, and that is having this impeachment without knowing who is responsible for making the charges. The so-called whistleblower is anonymous, so is the person that provided him or her the information, and they cannot be addressed.

Can you tell me why the Senate Republicans would help the Democrats after these phony charges were made; charges with no crime; charges that aren't even impeachable according to the US Constitution? It's ridiculous already. The Senate Republicans are not going to support the deep state. Election is less than a year away, if Americans don't want Trump in office anymore, that should be our decision, not the commies.

The house did an inquiry. The senate is responsible for having a trial. Two very different things and as I just said. Two wrongs, don’t make a right

And the Senate IS having a trial, but they are not about to allow the Democrats tell them how to proceed with one or extend their clown show with the House. You wanted an impeachment trial, then here it is. If you don't like how they are conducting it, then it's only fair because we didn't like how they conducted their inquiry.

why do you think it’s a clown show to see documents showing direct communication and witnesses who had direct access to trumps directives? Wouldn’t that clear Trump if he did nothing wrong?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

The entire case is false. The house had nothing,now they expect more emotional testimonies and no substance? No.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

The House had their clown show and nobody on the left objected. They did what they want, silenced who they wanted, and conducted it their way. Now the Senate is doing the same, and all of a sudden it's unfair.

Let me tell you what's unfair, and that is having this impeachment without knowing who is responsible for making the charges. The so-called whistleblower is anonymous, so is the person that provided him or her the information, and they cannot be addressed.

Can you tell me why the Senate Republicans would help the Democrats after these phony charges were made; charges with no crime; charges that aren't even impeachable according to the US Constitution? It's ridiculous already. The Senate Republicans are not going to support the deep state. Election is less than a year away, if Americans don't want Trump in office anymore, that should be our decision, not the commies.

The house did an inquiry. The senate is responsible for having a trial. Two very different things and as I just said. Two wrongs, don’t make a right

And the Senate IS having a trial, but they are not about to allow the Democrats tell them how to proceed with one or extend their clown show with the House. You wanted an impeachment trial, then here it is. If you don't like how they are conducting it, then it's only fair because we didn't like how they conducted their inquiry.

why do you think it’s a clown show to see documents showing direct communication and witnesses who had direct access to trumps directives? Wouldn’t that clear Trump if he did nothing wrong?

I don't. They should have presented that at the impeachment hearing. My suspicion is that they are trying to drag this out for a couple of months hoping they run into something else in the meantime.

Even if they have any legitimate evidence to support their claim, the fact is these are still bogus impeachment charges. There was no crime. There were no impeachable offenses. What they impeached Trump for, Obama already did. Obama withheld documents from the Congress. Obama had Biden issue a quid pro quo.

 

[Care4all]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

You're not paying attention.

Democrats could have (and still can) subpoena all of these witnesses and documents.

Democrats refused to subpoena them then.

Democrats refuse to subpoena them now.

Political theatrics fool people that dont pay attention sometimes.

It would take years to work the the courts because Trump is using our money to fight them all the way to the Supreme court.

DON mcghan was subpoenaed in April, regarding the President obstruction in the Mueller report.... all the courts through circuit, Appeals have ruled he has to show up and answer to congress.... So now Trump is appealing that and asking the SC to hear it, which is another half year wait.

Haven't you ever heard of the saying...

They or he, is trying to tie it up, in the courts?

That's what he has been doing, with every thing.... his tax returns is another example....

It's stonewalling.

Justice delayed, is justice denied.... And that is what the Trump team, is trying to do.

 

[Slade3200]

I agree, but that’s not at all what I’m talking about

It appears that what you are saying is that although the Dems completely disregarded the concepts of fairness, due process, representation, and the right to confront one's accuser in the House Farce, it's somehow reprehensible that McConnell wants to use basically the same rules as used for the Clinton impeachment and to not have the House takeover the Senate.

The house was doing an investigation... it’s a different process than the senate trail... and the grade school excuse, “they did it so we can do it” doesn’t carry much weight with me

wouldnt that make you a hypocrite???

How so?

by ignoring one groups actions and attacking another group for doing the same thing

I don’t think pointing at another groups actions excise the actions of the group I wrote this OP about so I’m trying to keep the topic on point and not go down the whataboutism rabbit hole.

 

[boedicca]

No, they didn't. For the subpeonas to be valid, the entire House had to formally vote to approve the impeachment inquiry. They didn't.

The House Impeachment Managers' claim that there MIGHT be evidence against the President 'out there' - they just have to look for it - is IRRELEVANT and has NOTHING to do with the existing case, the existing information they had that led them to Impeach the President.

It was based on THAT information that the House Democrats voted to Impeach, and it is now up to the House Impeachment Managers to present THAT information, THAT case, to prove / justify their vote to Impeach was warranted or not.

The Democrats refuse to do that.

In doing so, they prove the testimony of Democrat Constitutional Expert Jonathon Turley, testifying before the House Judiciary Committee during the House Impeachment, to be true. Turley testified that the President did NOT violate the Constitution, that he did NOT break the law, and that he did NOT abuse his power. He went on to add that the only ones who have done so and continue to do so are DEMOCRATS.

And don't forget:

"I'm concerned that if we don't impeach this president, he will get re-elected." - Rep. Al Green

 

[progressive hunter]

It appears that what you are saying is that although the Dems completely disregarded the concepts of fairness, due process, representation, and the right to confront one's accuser in the House Farce, it's somehow reprehensible that McConnell wants to use basically the same rules as used for the Clinton impeachment and to not have the House takeover the Senate.

The house was doing an investigation... it’s a different process than the senate trail... and the grade school excuse, “they did it so we can do it” doesn’t carry much weight with me

wouldnt that make you a hypocrite???

How so?

by ignoring one groups actions and attacking another group for doing the same thing

I don’t think pointing at another groups actions excise the actions of the group I wrote this OP about so I’m trying to keep the topic on point and not go down the whataboutism rabbit hole.

in most cases thats true,, but in this case its all directly connected,,,

in this case you just dont want to because it will show your hypocrisy,,,

 

[Slade3200]

I agree, but that’s not at all what I’m talking about

It appears that what you are saying is that although the Dems completely disregarded the concepts of fairness, due process, representation, and the right to confront one's accuser in the House Farce, it's somehow reprehensible that McConnell wants to use basically the same rules as used for the Clinton impeachment and to not have the House takeover the Senate.

The house was doing an investigation... it’s a different process than the senate trail... and the grade school excuse, “they did it so we can do it” doesn’t carry much weight with me

Please taker a refresher in Civics. The House had its opportunity to do an investigation. They decided to forgo issuing subpeonas for witnesses, and instead created a fake crime of "Obstruction of Congress". They voted on their cooked up fake impeachment charges. And now, it is the Senate's role to hold a hearing. The House gets to present its case; it is not the role of the Senate to do a new investigation for them.

Get a grip.

they didn’t forgo subpoenas. They issued them and they were either ignored or they were sued... so the Dems went with what they go and are now pursuing the docs and witnesses in the senate trial

No, they didn't. For the subpeonas to be valid, the entire House had to formally vote to approve the impeachment inquiry. They didn't.

they literally got sued for issuing a subpoena to Trumps lawyer and were told by the white house that any other subpoenas would be ignored and taken to court.

Come on man, are you seriously trying to make the case that the Dems didnt try and get these things while in the house?! You need to find a better argument.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It appears that what you are saying is that although the Dems completely disregarded the concepts of fairness, due process, representation, and the right to confront one's accuser in the House Farce, it's somehow reprehensible that McConnell wants to use basically the same rules as used for the Clinton impeachment and to not have the House takeover the Senate.

The house was doing an investigation... it’s a different process than the senate trail... and the grade school excuse, “they did it so we can do it” doesn’t carry much weight with me

wouldnt that make you a hypocrite???

How so?

by ignoring one groups actions and attacking another group for doing the same thing

I don’t think pointing at another groups actions excise the actions of the group I wrote this OP about so I’m trying to keep the topic on point and not go down the whataboutism rabbit hole.

But the point is that the Democrats ran their show they way they wanted, and it's only fair the Republicans do the same. If somebody moons you, you moon them right back.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

The House had their clown show and nobody on the left objected. They did what they want, silenced who they wanted, and conducted it their way. Now the Senate is doing the same, and all of a sudden it's unfair.

Let me tell you what's unfair, and that is having this impeachment without knowing who is responsible for making the charges. The so-called whistleblower is anonymous, so is the person that provided him or her the information, and they cannot be addressed.

Can you tell me why the Senate Republicans would help the Democrats after these phony charges were made; charges with no crime; charges that aren't even impeachable according to the US Constitution? It's ridiculous already. The Senate Republicans are not going to support the deep state. Election is less than a year away, if Americans don't want Trump in office anymore, that should be our decision, not the commies.

The house did an inquiry. The senate is responsible for having a trial. Two very different things and as I just said. Two wrongs, don’t make a right

And the Senate IS having a trial, but they are not about to allow the Democrats tell them how to proceed with one or extend their clown show with the House. You wanted an impeachment trial, then here it is. If you don't like how they are conducting it, then it's only fair because we didn't like how they conducted their inquiry.

why do you think it’s a clown show to see documents showing direct communication and witnesses who had direct access to trumps directives? Wouldn’t that clear Trump if he did nothing wrong?

The charge of abuse of power rests on the claim that the President wanted the investigation of the Bidens to advance his chances for reelection, so the only relevant witnesses or documents would have to directly show that was his motivation and clearly, the House was unable to find and such witnesses or documents so all the fuss the Democrats are making is just to extend their political stunt to advance their own political interests.

 

[martybegan]

The amendments were designed to drag the process out as far as possible, add new charges not part of the articles, and basically make the whole thing a shit show. If they allowed one side to bring in new evidence, they would have opened a floodgate.

The House was supposed to make it's case via the articles themselves, not with added bullshit afterwards.

they have their case with their articles. They were blocked from getting supporting evidence in the house. I think it completely reasonable for the senate to allow the subpoena of documents and witnesses. Also very reasonable to let a Republican appointed Supreme Court justice determine whether witnesses are material or not. The fact that the Reps blocked that completely shows their cards.

It shows they learned from the Democrats "we control the venue, we control the rules"

There is zero gain for Republicans to play nice when Democrats wouldn't do it in the house.

That's why for the past few decades they have been constantly outmaneuvered by the left.

I don’t really care about tits for tats or political gain. I’m just looking for honesty and transparency. I’m not seeing it

Were you looking for the same from the Democrats during the actual impeachment process, and not the trial?

Sorry but tiky tak stuff started in the House has to be continued in the Senate, or the Republicans might as well all just resign.

That’s a childish way to look at it. It expect our leaders to strive to be better... not degrade their discourse down to playground level because somebody else does it too

What you are asking for is one side to lay down and expose it's belly after the other side bared their teeth and growled.

Sorry, but its the reality of the situation.

 

[easyt65]

Come on man, are you seriously trying to make the case that the Dems didnt try and get these things while in the house?! You need to find a better argument.

Ignoring Executive Privilege is not a valid attempt to 'get things'.

Nadler tried to 'get things' to when he ordered the US AG, the top law ENFORCER in the United States, to BREAK THE LAW....and then CENSURED him for REFUELING to BREAK THE LAW!

You need to abandon this argument.

 

[boedicca]

It appears that what you are saying is that although the Dems completely disregarded the concepts of fairness, due process, representation, and the right to confront one's accuser in the House Farce, it's somehow reprehensible that McConnell wants to use basically the same rules as used for the Clinton impeachment and to not have the House takeover the Senate.

The house was doing an investigation... it’s a different process than the senate trail... and the grade school excuse, “they did it so we can do it” doesn’t carry much weight with me

Please taker a refresher in Civics. The House had its opportunity to do an investigation. They decided to forgo issuing subpeonas for witnesses, and instead created a fake crime of "Obstruction of Congress". They voted on their cooked up fake impeachment charges. And now, it is the Senate's role to hold a hearing. The House gets to present its case; it is not the role of the Senate to do a new investigation for them.

Get a grip.

they didn’t forgo subpoenas. They issued them and they were either ignored or they were sued... so the Dems went with what they go and are now pursuing the docs and witnesses in the senate trial

No, they didn't. For the subpeonas to be valid, the entire House had to formally vote to approve the impeachment inquiry. They didn't.

they literally got sued for issuing a subpoena to Trumps lawyer and were told by the white house that any other subpoenas would be ignored and taken to court.

Come on man, are you seriously trying to make the case that the Dems didnt try and get these things while in the house?! You need to find a better argument.

Please look up the definition of "Executive Privilege" and what it means in the Constitution.

Pelosi purposefully did not hold a vote in the house to approve the Impeachment inquiry. The subpoenas were not enforceable; she did not want Trump to exercise Executive Privilege by issuing legal challenges that would delay her actions to address the supposed National Emergency (which somehow wasn't quite so serious given that she delayed sending docs to the Senate for weeks).

 

[Slade3200]

The house was doing an investigation... it’s a different process than the senate trail... and the grade school excuse, “they did it so we can do it” doesn’t carry much weight with me

wouldnt that make you a hypocrite???

How so?

by ignoring one groups actions and attacking another group for doing the same thing

I don’t think pointing at another groups actions excise the actions of the group I wrote this OP about so I’m trying to keep the topic on point and not go down the whataboutism rabbit hole.

in most cases thats true,, but in this case its all directly connected,,,

in this case you just dont want to because it will show your hypocrisy,,,

I don’t care if you think I’m a hypocrite. It has nothing to do with the debate. So I’ll concede that I’m a big hypocrite right now so we can avoid wasting anymore time debating that point. Moving on

 

[basquebromance]

" Serious allegations have been made against Trump, and the Senate needs to hear all the evidence to conduct a fair and impartial trial. The American public deserves to hear the evidence about allegations of interference in the 2020 election. The Oval Office and US foreign policy should not be manipulated or used for personal political gain. Witnesses and evidence will bring further clarity about whether this was a deep and coordinated effort." - Marvelous Maria Cantwell, Senator From Washington State

 

[Slade3200]

The house was doing an investigation... it’s a different process than the senate trail... and the grade school excuse, “they did it so we can do it” doesn’t carry much weight with me

wouldnt that make you a hypocrite???

How so?

by ignoring one groups actions and attacking another group for doing the same thing

I don’t think pointing at another groups actions excise the actions of the group I wrote this OP about so I’m trying to keep the topic on point and not go down the whataboutism rabbit hole.

But the point is that the Democrats ran their show they way they wanted, and it's only fair the Republicans do the same. If somebody moons you, you moon them right back.

yes, if youre a child

 

[progressive hunter]

wouldnt that make you a hypocrite???

How so?

by ignoring one groups actions and attacking another group for doing the same thing

I don’t think pointing at another groups actions excise the actions of the group I wrote this OP about so I’m trying to keep the topic on point and not go down the whataboutism rabbit hole.

in most cases thats true,, but in this case its all directly connected,,,

in this case you just dont want to because it will show your hypocrisy,,,

I don’t care if you think I’m a hypocrite. It has nothing to do with the debate. So I’ll concede that I’m a big hypocrite right now so we can avoid wasting anymore time debating that point. Moving on

its all about baby steps,,,

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

wouldnt that make you a hypocrite???

How so?

by ignoring one groups actions and attacking another group for doing the same thing

I don’t think pointing at another groups actions excise the actions of the group I wrote this OP about so I’m trying to keep the topic on point and not go down the whataboutism rabbit hole.

But the point is that the Democrats ran their show they way they wanted, and it's only fair the Republicans do the same. If somebody moons you, you moon them right back.

yes, if youre a child

The House had their inquiry, and now demanding the Republicans continue their inquiry. That is an unreasonable request. You have your inquiry, end it, and send it to us. That's the way it works.

 

[basquebromance]

"PENAL REFORM IDEA: To save money, let’s forget about prisons and instead force convicted felons to watch hour after hour of Adam Schiff on TV"

 

[easyt65]

The charge of abuse of power rests on the claim that the President wanted the investigation of the Bidens to advance his chances for reelection, so the only relevant witnesses or documents would have to directly show that was his motivation and clearly, the House was unable to find and such witnesses or documents so all the fuss the Democrats are making is just to extend their political stunt to advance their own political interests.

As I posted citing multiple sources earlier - here's another:

"Officials in Ukraine reportedly opened an investigation into an energy company that employed former Vice President Joe Biden’s son long before President Donald Trump’s July 25 nothing-burger of a telephone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that spurred the Democrats’ haphazard, increasingly Kafkaesque impeachment inquiry.

The time element of the revelation, devastating as it is to the 2016-election-nullification push disguised as an impeachment process, has been largely ignored by the mainstream media which is overly preoccupied –as usual— attacking President Trump."

How can someone pressure someone else into doing something they are already doing?

Just one of the devastating facts against the Democrats' Impeachment - COUP attempt....


Ukraine Was Investigating Hunter Biden Before Trump’s Phone Call