I know this is simple but.. who gets cancer most: smokers or non-smokers?

PHP:
Silly question. It's like asking "Who gets into auto accidents the most often, drivers or non-drivers?"

Passengers?

5 killed in one car here recently, I don't think all 5 were driving.

This could be an interesting math problem:

Every car accident involves at least 1 driver. But, depending on the number of people injured, it could out number the drivers themselves considerably.

So its very possible that non drivers get into more auto accidents than drivers.

Someone find me some data dang it!
 
I strongly encourage those of you that are really interested to UNDERSTAND Medicare go to this web site: https://www.cms.gov/IdentifiableDataFiles/downloads/sasIDmedpar.pdf

FREE Information regarding Medicare expenses claims,etc...
For example you will find that
# of Medicare Ave.claim hospital
Hospital Outpatient Medicare paid service claims amount cost Overcharged!
Univ. Community Hospital CAT scan no contrast 2,110 $2,635 $43 6,127.91%

NOW if YOU are happy with the government that gladly paid this specific hospital $5.4 million MORE then (6,127%) YOU will LOVE OBAMACARE!!!

Your numbers make zero sense.

you wrote:eek:ur numbers make zero sense.:
My goodness you really really are dumb!
Here let me make it even more simple for you.
Say you pull up to a gas station.
The owner just paid the gasoline company $100 for 50 gallons OR $2.00 a gallon.
The owner then raises the price of a gallon of gas by 6,000%..
OR $122 per gallon.. THAT is what 6,000% markup would mean!

Hospitals since 1986 BECAUSE of EMTALA use a little effort look it up..
have been with MEDICARE's approval "padding...(6,000%) ..marking up ) what it costs them in this case $43 to do a CAT scan and billing Medicare $2,635 again a 6,000% markup..
AND YOU WANT OBAMACARE??? YOU want the same govt. program that ACCEPTS 6,000% markups to run all of healthcare???
IDIOT...
 
AGAIN idiots that you are can find this information from this web site:
https://www.cms.gov/IdentifiableData...asIDmedpar.pdf

It takes a little brains and computer expertise to find out HOW totally WASTEFUL Medicare is !
I mean for example a Kennedy Health System in NJ billed Medicare 1,598 times for Level 5 Type A Emergency room visits $2,006 per claim... IT cost Kennedy $272! A 637% Markup!
WHY?? EMTALA said the hospital takes Medicare it has to take under EMTALA uninsured patients.
SO Kennedy MARKSUP for Medicare "Emergency Visit.. $2,006 for services that cost $272!

IS THAT INSANE or what??
NOW do you people understand why Obamacare is so f..kup and the same people that run an organization that KNOWINGLY pays 600% to 6,000% MARKUPS wants to run YOUR healthcare???
 
AGAIN idiots that you are can find this information from this web site:
https://www.cms.gov/IdentifiableData...asIDmedpar.pdf

It takes a little brains and computer expertise to find out HOW totally WASTEFUL Medicare is !
I mean for example a Kennedy Health System in NJ billed Medicare 1,598 times for Level 5 Type A Emergency room visits $2,006 per claim... IT cost Kennedy $272! A 637% Markup!
WHY?? EMTALA said the hospital takes Medicare it has to take under EMTALA uninsured patients.
SO Kennedy MARKSUP for Medicare "Emergency Visit.. $2,006 for services that cost $272!

IS THAT INSANE or what??
NOW do you people understand why Obamacare is so f..kup and the same people that run an organization that KNOWINGLY pays 600% to 6,000% MARKUPS wants to run YOUR healthcare???

You said it
You linked it

Now shuuuuuuush
 
I know that sounds stupid BUT idiots who are so in favor of Obamacare specifically the ban on "pre-existing conditions" obviously have NO CLUE!

If they did they would understand that now because of the ban insurance companies for example in the case of smokers will because they don't know who is and isn't will raise the rates for everyone! And that's because they don't know which policyholder will cost them more due to cancer caused by smoking!!

I know that sounds too obvious BUT WAKE up people that's how it is!
So today insurance companies are RAISING employer rates in order to cover:
A) All applicants regardless of "pre-existing conditions"..i.e. smokers
B) Adults up to age 26 on parents' policies!

THESE two factors alone are RAISING employer rates and this didn't have to happen!


Obamacare, the law’s architect, MIT economist Jonathan Gruber, was all over the op-ed pages, talking about how the bill would reduce the cost of health insurance. “What we know for sure,” he told Ezra Klein, “is that [the bill] will lower the cost of buying non-group health insurance.”

It is important to recognize some limitations in our modeling of prices. In particular, given publicly available data we cannot incorporate the effects of the ban on pre-existing conditions exclusions. This ban will cause a rise in premiums as insurers are forced to cover conditions that they had previously excluded. In addition, there are new premium taxes on insurers that will raise premium rates…Overall, we cannot predict the net impacts of these factors on premiums without more analysis.

How Obamacare Dramatically Increases the Cost of Insurance for Young Workers - Forbes

If someone's child is added to their insurance policy, their rates are increased. Many employers make the employee pay for their dependent's coverage. If not, that is up to the employer. Secondly, smokers pay higher premiums. Again, the insurance can be set up so that the smokers pay more.

As for covering pre-existing conditions, this would not be a problem if everyone is mandated to purchase insurance in the first place. What you want is for those who choose not to purchase insurance to never be permitted to purchase it once they become sick. Of course, many can get around this if they get their insurance through their employer. But if they are self-employed, they are SOL. I am self-employed and lost my insurance because I moved to another state. I could not get insurance until the high risk pool was put in place under the health care legislation. The dumbest thing is that even though I am potentially a high risk, I am in better shape than 95% of Americans my age.
 
I switched to electronic cigarettes almost two years ago after 25 years of a pack and a half a day.

I feel better than ever, saved tons of money and the e-cigs are a far more pleasurable experience.

I recently purchased the Cadillac of E - cigs, the ProVari. Amazing device!

No smoke, just flavored water vapor with nicotine...mmmmmmmm

Oh and you do realize that smoking has never been considered a pre existing condition right? And smokers pay higher premiums? And that won't change under the Affordable Care Act right?

Just out of curiosity, how is your blood pressure and resting heart rate? I quit smoking about eight months ago and started working out and running, after 30 plus years of smoking. My BP is now 110/65 and my resting heart rate is around 50. I just ran a 5K in 24 minutes; not too bad for an old man like me. Give up those E-cigs. While I'm sure they are better healthwise than real cigarettes, I can't imagine they are good for you.
 
Who gets cancer most? Perhaps that question would be better phrased as "Who gets LUNG cancer most?" Or, "Who gets ESOPHAGEAL cancer most?'' Then again, many smoke for decades and die cancer free at an elderly age. I believe that our deaths are partly pre-destined.

Yes, genetics often predisposes many to cancers or other problems.

So do we do genetic testing for these predisposition markers and charge accordingly for insurance?

:rofl: Yea, I can see that happening. Start that kind of testing and everyone will have a predisposition for one thing or another.
 
Who dies of circulatory or diabetic related problems the most? The Obese or the proper weight ones?

Is obesity listed as a preexisting condition?

Fat people should pay more. Actually, they should be uninsurable. Oh, that won't work. Before long that would be the majority of Americans. Guess we better rethink that one.
 
A Chinese study linked specific types of cancers to specific foods, particularly foods from animals.

Perhaps we should deny health coverage to meat eaters and milk drinkers too.

Sidebar:
If you have streaming NetFlix, check out the documentary Forks over Knives. I'll never give up steak but it certainly makes a strong case for it.

I haven't seen it, but there are more than enough studies to link red meat to all types of health issues, including increased rates of cancer. But I'm with you. Ain't no fucking way they're taking my steak away from me, lol.
 
It seems there is absolutely no way to avoid some of your healthcare dollar going to pay for someone else's illness.

LOOK As I've said as an expert in Medicare the MAJOR the largest contributor to health care costs has been MEDICARE!

HOW many people are aware that Medicare ACCEPTS 6,000% markups from hospitals BECAUSE Medicare KNOWS hospitals pad and pass on the expenses hospitals incurred because of THIS stupid law passed in 1986!

in 1986 Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) to ensure public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay. Section 1867 of the Social Security Act imposes specific obligations on Medicare-participating hospitals that offer emergency services to provide a medical screening examination (MSE) when a request is made for examination or treatment for an emergency medical condition (EMC), including active labor, regardless of an individual's ability to pay. Hospitals are then required t provide stabilizing treatment for patients with EMCs. If a hospital is unable to stabilize a patient"

THIS was NO big deal in 1986!
BUT over time hospitals continued to PAD and pass on these expenses in the form of overcharging Medicare!
I as an expert in Medicare have access to a data base of ALL claims paid by Medicare to Hospitals and the COST the hospitals incurred!

For example a hospital in Tampa billed Medicare:
for 2,110 claims for "CAT scan no contrast" at per claim of $2,635
Hospitals cost: $43
MARKUP: 6,127.91%

SO HOW IN THE HELL CAN AN ENTITY LIKE THE GOVT. THAT ACCEPTS 6,000% MARKUPS BE CAPABLE OF RUNNING THE ENTIRE HEALTH SYSTEM???

I have no doubt that hospitals way overcharge for a CT Scan. But to tell us that their cost is only $43 doesn't even come close to making any sense. A good used CT Scanner can cost over $500,000. New, you are looking at close to $1 million. Any idea how many CT Scans it would take just to pay the thing off at $43 per crack, not to mention all the other costs associated with doing the scan? $43 isn't even enough to cover the payroll of those performing the scan.
 
Who do you think pays for the cancer treatments of those who do NOT have health insurance?

Why can't the rw's understand this very simple fact?

And why are they so against personal responsibility?

And, DAMMIT, WHY do they continue to demand that we pay more than any other developed country but get way less than they do?

Why don't we deserve the same caliber of care that we taxpayers pay for our congress to get? If they're so damned against it, why don't they pay for their own? Why can't the whole country have the same high quality of health care coverage that Mass has?

I friggin sick of paying for the rw's health care at the emergency room because they don't want to buy their own health insurance.

Obamacare specifically exempts members of Congress from its provisions. What does that tell you?
Those using health care at the emergency room without insurance are typically not RW but Obama voters. Are you sick of paying for them too?
 
We have always paid for Health Insurance for the uninsured, difference now is the astronomical cost. Tort reform could go a long way for reducing the cost. Trial lawyers a/k/a ambulance chasers have raised health care costs 10 fold over the last 40 years.

Heck when my oldest child was born, I didn't need health insurance, I could afford to (and did) pay the cost of the doctor and the hospital. It was a whole $350.00. Can't do that today.

Malpractice and tort related issues are 2% of the cost and even tort reform would never recover all of that.

Doctors don't want malpractice insurance costs lowered so they can pass the savings along to you. They want malpractice insurance costs lowered so they can buy bigger boats.

Wake up.


YOU wrote:Malpractice and tort related issues are 2% of the cost and even tort reform would never recover all of that.:
Then what would you call what 90% of the doctors surveyed are those $600 billion a year in duplicate tests, specialist referrals, that these doctors complain the run so as NOT to be sued ? Not to have to take time to appear in court defending their practices?
The last time I checked $600 billion is about 25% of the $2.5 trillion health care expenditures!

It is Called DEFENSIVE MEDICINE! If I hear one more idiot claim it is only 2% I'll continue to ASK why are the doctors ordering $600 billion (25%) for Defensive Medicine?

DO YOU finally understand??
This IS why Tort reform is necessary because lawyers making $100 billion a year from health lawsuits FORCE doctors to practice DEFENSIVE MEDICINE out of FEAR of lawsuits!

DO YOU GET IT through you head... It's not malpractice premiums DUMMY!
IT's $600 billion in DEFENSIVE MEDICINE!!!

If they would just weed out the bad ones in the medical field.....
But Noooo doctors are as bad as unions at protecting the dead weight.
 
Who do you think pays for the cancer treatments of those who do NOT have health insurance?

Why can't the rw's understand this very simple fact?

And why are they so against personal responsibility?

And, DAMMIT, WHY do they continue to demand that we pay more than any other developed country but get way less than they do?

Why don't we deserve the same caliber of care that we taxpayers pay for our congress to get? If they're so damned against it, why don't they pay for their own? Why can't the whole country have the same high quality of health care coverage that Mass has?

I friggin sick of paying for the rw's health care at the emergency room because they don't want to buy their own health insurance.

Obamacare specifically exempts members of Congress from its provisions. What does that tell you?
Those using health care at the emergency room without insurance are typically not RW but Obama voters. Are you sick of paying for them too?

You think all Republican voters are gainfully employed with employer supplied health insurance? How quaint!
 
I switched to electronic cigarettes almost two years ago after 25 years of a pack and a half a day.

I feel better than ever, saved tons of money and the e-cigs are a far more pleasurable experience.

I recently purchased the Cadillac of E - cigs, the ProVari. Amazing device!

No smoke, just flavored water vapor with nicotine...mmmmmmmm

Oh and you do realize that smoking has never been considered a pre existing condition right? And smokers pay higher premiums? And that won't change under the Affordable Care Act right?

Just out of curiosity, how is your blood pressure and resting heart rate? I quit smoking about eight months ago and started working out and running, after 30 plus years of smoking. My BP is now 110/65 and my resting heart rate is around 50. I just ran a 5K in 24 minutes; not too bad for an old man like me. Give up those E-cigs. While I'm sure they are better healthwise than real cigarettes, I can't imagine they are good for you.


I just had a physical a few weeks ago. I can't remember the specific numbers but blood pressure/heart rate were within normal ranges. I specifically asked about loos pressure becaused I'd had a few nose bleeds this winter and that's a warning sign of high blood pressure. Doc said I checked out.

I'm not running. I gained ALOT of weight prior to quitting smoking, ( too much fast food for lunch at work ) but went on a salad diet for several months and lost just over 50 pounds. I went off for the holidays and maintained by staying away from the Big Macs ( my favorite vice ) and pushing away from the table before ai gorged myself like a Monty python character. But I went back on the salad diet, last week and lost another four pounds.

Oh and I eliminated all pop from my diet. Unsweetened iced tea and water only.

The ecigs still have nicotine in them, but I mix my own juice ( in fact, it's my business now. Well...side business ) and keep the nicotine content low for my own purposes. I'm vaping 6mg juice, though when I started I vaped at 36mg, which is as high as you'd want to go. Any higher, there are risks.
 
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We have always paid for Health Insurance for the uninsured, difference now is the astronomical cost. Tort reform could go a long way for reducing the cost. Trial lawyers a/k/a ambulance chasers have raised health care costs 10 fold over the last 40 years.

Heck when my oldest child was born, I didn't need health insurance, I could afford to (and did) pay the cost of the doctor and the hospital. It was a whole $350.00. Can't do that today.

Malpractice and tort related issues are 2% of the cost and even tort reform would never recover all of that.

Doctors don't want malpractice insurance costs lowered so they can pass the savings along to you. They want malpractice insurance costs lowered so they can buy bigger boats.

Wake up.

I'm still amazed that so-called conservatives favor limited liability, and spit on the constitution.

But you're correct in your numbers. It's about 2%, and that 2% is the result of medical stupidity by a small handful of doctors. If the right wing is so set on limiting damages, to the victims of malpractice, why aren't they fighting for national licensing?


IT IS NOT 2%! 90% of doctors surveyed said $1 of every $4 they send in claims is because of fear of lawsuits!
FACTS:
1) $600 billion in defensive medicine wasted duplicate testing all out of fear of lawsuits!
Nine out of 10 physicians reported practicing defensive medicine.
Doctors Estimate Defensive Medicine Costs Americans $650-850 Billion Annually
Doctors Practice Medicine in Fear, New Study Finds
 
Malpractice and tort related issues are 2% of the cost and even tort reform would never recover all of that.

Doctors don't want malpractice insurance costs lowered so they can pass the savings along to you. They want malpractice insurance costs lowered so they can buy bigger boats.

Wake up.


YOU wrote:Malpractice and tort related issues are 2% of the cost and even tort reform would never recover all of that.:
Then what would you call what 90% of the doctors surveyed are those $600 billion a year in duplicate tests, specialist referrals, that these doctors complain the run so as NOT to be sued ? Not to have to take time to appear in court defending their practices?
The last time I checked $600 billion is about 25% of the $2.5 trillion health care expenditures!

It is Called DEFENSIVE MEDICINE! If I hear one more idiot claim it is only 2% I'll continue to ASK why are the doctors ordering $600 billion (25%) for Defensive Medicine?

DO YOU finally understand??
This IS why Tort reform is necessary because lawyers making $100 billion a year from health lawsuits FORCE doctors to practice DEFENSIVE MEDICINE out of FEAR of lawsuits!

DO YOU GET IT through you head... It's not malpractice premiums DUMMY!
IT's $600 billion in DEFENSIVE MEDICINE!!!

If they would just weed out the bad ones in the medical field.....
But Noooo doctors are as bad as unions at protecting the dead weight.

NO!

Defending a medical liability lawsuit in which the defendant prevails at trial costs more than $110,000, according to a 2005 Physician Insurers Assn. of America claims trend analysis. Even in cases where the claim was dropped or dismissed, the defense costs average more than $15,000, that analysis showed. Those costs add up, considering that 75% of medical liability claims don't result in patients receiving any money.

WHAT do you think the doctors do to recover their lost income, lawyer fees,etc. coming from lawsuits? Call for more duplicate tests. Refer to specialists! have patients come back again and again.. ALL out of fear of lawsuits!


34% of $2.5 Trillion healthcare costs or :$850 BILLION!
Healthcare Costs & Defensive Medicine Study | Jackson Healthcare

In December 2009, Jackson Healthcare polled physicians again to quantify the scope and impact of defensive medicine practices.

Jackson believed physicians were the most reliable source to quantify unnecessary medical activities, since physicians drive all healthcare expenses through their orders.

Survey participants estimated that 34 percent of overall healthcare costs is attributable to defensive medicine.
Nine out of 10 physicians reported practicing defensive medicine.
 

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