I Knew 4 Years Ago This Would Happen

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Annie, Mar 20, 2006.

  1. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    The more I read, the more I realized 'we' had been taught revisionist history, before it was popular, regarding The Crusades. Seems the Vatican is moving in lifting the veil:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-2093921,00.html#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=World

    Vatican change of heart over 'barbaric' Crusades
    From Richard Owen in Rome

    THE Vatican has begun moves to rehabilitate the Crusaders by sponsoring a conference at the weekend that portrays the Crusades as wars fought with the “noble aim” of regaining the Holy Land for Christianity.

    The Crusades are seen by many Muslims as acts of violence that have underpinned Western aggression towards the Arab world ever since. Followers of Osama bin Laden claim to be taking part in a latter-day “jihad against the Jews and Crusaders”.

    The late Pope John Paul II sought to achieve Muslim- Christian reconciliation by asking “pardon” for the Crusades during the 2000 Millennium celebrations. But John Paul’s apologies for the past “errors of the Church” — including the Inquisition and anti-Semitism — irritated some Vatican conservatives. According to Vatican insiders, the dissenters included Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI.

    Pope Benedict reached out to Muslims and Jews after his election and called for dialogue. However, the Pope, who is due to visit Turkey in November, has in the past suggested that Turkey’s Muslim culture is at variance with Europe’s Christian roots.

    At the conference, held at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University, Roberto De Mattei, an Italian historian, recalled that the Crusades were “a response to the Muslim invasion of Christian lands and the Muslim devastation of the Holy Places”.

    “The debate has been reopened,
    ” La Stampa said. Professor De Mattei noted that the desecration of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem by Muslim forces in 1009 had helped to provoke the First Crusade at the end of the 11th century, called by Pope Urban II.

    He said that the Crusaders were “martyrs” who had “sacrificed their lives for the faith”. He was backed by Jonathan Riley-Smith, Dixie Professor of Ecclesiastical History at Cambridge University, who said that those who sought forgiveness for the Crusades “do not know their history”. Professor Riley-Smith has attacked Sir Ridley Scott’s recent film Kingdom of Heaven, starring Orlando Bloom, as “utter nonsense”.

    Professor Riley-Smith said that the script, like much writing on the Crusades, was “historically inaccurate. It depicts the Muslims as civilised and the Crusaders as barbarians. It has nothing to do with reality.” It fuels Islamic fundamentalism by propagating “Osama bin Laden’s version of history”.

    He said that the Crusaders were sometimes undisciplined and capable of acts of great cruelty. But the same was true of Muslims and of troops in “all ideological wars”. Some of the Crusaders’ worst excesses were against Orthodox Christians or heretics — as in the sack of Constantinople in 1204.


    The American writer Robert Spencer, author of A Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam, told the conference that the mistaken view had taken hold in the West as well as the Arab world that the Crusades were “an unprovoked attack by Europe on the Islamic world”. In reality, however, Christians had been persecuted after the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem.

    CONFLICT OVER THE HOLY LAND
    # Historians count eight Crusades, although dates are disputed: 1095-1101, called by Pope Urban II; 1145-47, led by Louis VII; 1188-92, led by Richard I; 1204, which included the sack of Constantinople; 1217, which included the conquest of Damietta; 1228-29 led by Frederick II; 1249-52, led by King Louis IX of France; and 1270, also under Louis IX

    # Until the early 11th century, Christians, Jews and Muslims coexisted under Muslim rule in the Holy Land. After growing friction, the first Crusade was sparked by ambushes of Christian pilgrims going to Jerusalem. The Byzantine Emperor Alexius appealed to Pope Urban II, who in 1095 called on Christendom to take up arms to free the Holy Land from the “Muslim infidel”
     
  2. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Links at site

    http://www.nicedoggie.net/2006/?p=419

     
  3. Abbey Normal
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    Abbey Normal Senior Member

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    Great post, Kath. It's a keeper.

    And that second article has just the right amount of sarcasm for me!
     
  4. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Yeah, I hesitate to post from that blog, for fear his words might upset some! I like his take though.
     
  5. shepherdboy
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    shepherdboy Member

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    Well done Kathianne! Its really upsets me to see how history teacher depict history these days. Its so politically correct, it make me sick. The movie Kingdom of Heaven, was a joke. I know there is a director's cut with almost an hour added back in to the movie coming out in May 2006. I wonder if it will still have the politically correct view? Islam was attacking the roots of Christianity long before the Moors in Spain and the 1st Crusade. Its funny that the history teachers always say it was the invading Christian armies from Europe that started the war in the Holy Land. But they never go into the build up to the Islam religion in Spain, France and other European countries prior to the 1st crusade. How many small town in Europe were forced to convert to Islam or be put to death by the sword. But no they will never tell you that because true Islam is a peaceful religion. Yea right! Thank God for the Crusades and the many men and women back then who fought for their freedoms.
     

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  6. Abbey Normal
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    Abbey Normal Senior Member

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    Hey, if they don't like it, tough. He's hysterical. :clap1: :clap1:
     
  7. Psychoblues
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    Psychoblues Senior Member

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    Don't worry about upsetting some. You are never concerned with upsetting those that disagree with you. I digress.

    You "like his take" on this subject. Might I remind you, it's only his "take" or opinion. He lays no foundation or historical insight, just a new or at least until now unobserved and unsubstantiated claim.

    Warmongers and War supporters never cease to amaze me. None of them know crap about the devastation and murder of WAR but they can excuse every devastation or murder (if it suits their agenda) in the name of heroics that they (themselves) cannot demonstrate.

    Take this from an old VETERAN OF WAR, Kathianne, please. There will never be a legit excuse for this WAR ON IRAQ as there has never been any legit excuse for the War in Viet Nam as participated by the United States of America including me. Get it?

    I've said before, I'll repeat it here and probably many times again. I did the 1991 War against Saddam Hussein and his intentions and his cohorts (he didn't really have many cohorts as evidenced by the very quick VICTORY WE achieved there). I didn't complain in 1991 and I still don't complain about the '91 thing or my own participation in Viet Nam. But living is also learning. Get that as well?

    I was opposed from the get go on this WAR ON IRAQ and I continue my opposition. I was never opposed to the WAR IN VIET NAM as a youg man. I went and did my duty, came back and got an education about the reasons I ever went there in the first place.

    I don't believe for a second that any American has any DUTY whatsoever to protect the conveniences of the oil industries or embellish the profits of the Halliburton's etc. of this world. Let the political differences in Iraq take care of themselves as I expect Americans to be unencumbered by foreign intervention to take care of our own political differences. You got that, Kathy?

    Psychoblues



     
  8. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    :gives:
     
  9. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    No one believes you Psycho, not that you were in any war, not that your posts are comprehensible. We get nothing from your screeds and no, we don't 'dig it.'
     
  10. CSM
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    CSM Senior Member

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    Here is some FLASH traffic for ya buddy...

    I am a war supporter (and considered by some as a warmonger) and I know far better than most the horrendous effects of war. As for heroics, I have enough little pieces of ribbon and tin and would gladly compare records with ANYONE.

    Take this from an old VETERAN of War, Psycho...there are plenty of legitimate reasons for this war in Iraq; there were plenty of legitimate reasons for the war in Viet Nam.

    One more thing: just because you were a war hero in your own mind does not make your opinion any more valid than anyone elses. In fact, because you make unsubstantiated posts with the sole purpose of inflamming the folks on this board I am convinced that you were neither a war hero nor any other kind of hero. Veteran you may be but I have to wonder just how good a soldier you were...I bet I can guess with some accuracy based on your performance on this board, your own words as found in your posts and my vast experience in dealing with soldiers.

    From now on, every time you use your veteran status to lend credibility to your specious, inflammatory statements I will be right there to remind you that your opinion holds no weight and is counterbalanced (if not overshadowed) by my own opinion. In other words, don't use that bullshit again to back up your posts. Every time you do, I will call you on it and demonstrate just what an ass you truly are. You got that, Psychoblues?
     
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