I keep asking.

[Fizz]

All ya have to do is eliminate the air national gaurdsman that shot down the plane over the ocean. Not that hard.

what 9/11 plane ever went over the ocean?

It is speculation. Do you have proof that the supposed pentagon plane did not? I do not believe that was not a heavy passenger jet that hit the pentagon.

yes. there are radar records for everything except 8 minutes 13 seconds of the flight. that 8 minutes was someplace over Ohio, i believe. not enough time to make it to the ocean.

how do you explain all the 757 parts found at the pentagon and the flight data recorder and the dead bodies from flight 77 passengers?

 

[CurveLight]

what 9/11 plane ever went over the ocean?

It is speculation. Do you have proof that the supposed pentagon plane did not? I do not believe that was not a heavy passenger jet that hit the pentagon.

yes. there are radar records for everything except 8 minutes 13 seconds of the flight. that 8 minutes was someplace over Ohio, i believe. not enough time to make it to the ocean.

how do you explain all the 757 parts found at the pentagon and the flight data recorder and the dead bodies from flight 77 passengers?

Another prime example of not knowing info and trying to pass it off as fact. The real kicker here is the 9ECR says the exact opposite of your claim about "radar records." Have a gander:

"The failure to find a primary radar return for American 77 led us to investigate this issue further. Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56. But for 8 minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56 and 9:05, this primary radar information on American 77 was not displayed to controllers at Indianapolis Center.142 The reasons are technical, arising from the way the software processed radar information, as well as from poor primary radar coverage where American 77 was flying."


There are no "radar records" showing 77 was tracked 8 minutes after the hijack. It was a "radar reconstruction" done by the Commission. I also love how they avoid explaining why. It was "technical."

Pay close attention to the first sentence. The CR states point blank there was no primary radar return. No, it's not endemic to the 8 minutes and aside from their admission, the evidence is obvious. They would not have needed to do a "reconstruction" to see how long it did not show up on Indy's radar.

 

[CurveLight]

All ya have to do is eliminate the air national gaurdsman that shot down the plane over the ocean. Not that hard.

what 9/11 plane ever went over the ocean?

It is speculation. Do you have proof that the supposed pentagon plane did not? I do not believe that was not a heavy passenger jet that hit the pentagon.

Here are some interesting tidbits from a story dated 9/21:

"Eight minutes before the crash, at 9:30 a.m. EDT, radar tracked the plane as it closed to within 30 miles of Washington."

Mineta testified hearing someone say the plane was 50 miles out while in the PEOC with Cheney. The above report shows his testimony as accurate.

(side note: can't seem to find Mineta's testimony anywhere in the CR. Anyone know where it is?)

Here's another gem:




"The steep turn was so smooth, the sources say, it's clear there was no fight for control going on. And the complex maneuver suggests the hijackers had better flying skills than many investigators first believed."

Isn't that ironic? We now know one of Hanjour's instructors at Jet Tech was shocked when he found out he was the hijacker-pilot because Hanjour "Could not fly at all." Hanjour is the only hijacker listed as the pilot on 77.

Another one:

"Some eyewitnesses believe the plane actually hit the ground at the base of the Pentagon first, and then skidded into the building."

We know they were wrong about that.....but eyewitness testimony on an object at over 500 mph is not reliable anyways. I'm also guessing many repeated what they heard because they could not say for sure what it was without suggestion. So by 9/12 anyone within that vicinity would claim they saw flight 77 but how reliable can that be?

It also pointed out 104 victims had been identified that quickly. This was published on the 21st so it took less than 10 days to I.d. over a hundred.
CBS News Mobile Primary Target

 

[Fizz]

It is speculation. Do you have proof that the supposed pentagon plane did not? I do not believe that was not a heavy passenger jet that hit the pentagon.

yes. there are radar records for everything except 8 minutes 13 seconds of the flight. that 8 minutes was someplace over Ohio, i believe. not enough time to make it to the ocean.

how do you explain all the 757 parts found at the pentagon and the flight data recorder and the dead bodies from flight 77 passengers?

Another prime example of not knowing info and trying to pass it off as fact. The real kicker here is the 9ECR says the exact opposite of your claim about "radar records." Have a gander:

"The failure to find a primary radar return for American 77 led us to investigate this issue further. Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56. But for 8 minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56 and 9:05, this primary radar information on American 77 was not displayed to controllers at Indianapolis Center.142 The reasons are technical, arising from the way the software processed radar information, as well as from poor primary radar coverage where American 77 was flying."


There are no "radar records" showing 77 was tracked 8 minutes after the hijack. It was a "radar reconstruction" done by the Commission. I also love how they avoid explaining why. It was "technical."

Pay close attention to the first sentence. The CR states point blank there was no primary radar return. No, it's not endemic to the 8 minutes and aside from their admission, the evidence is obvious. They would not have needed to do a "reconstruction" to see how long it did not show up on Indy's radar.

are you really this stupid or are you trying to be funny? i said for 8 minutes the flight wasnt tracked. the FAA said the same thing (which is where i got the info from). you say the same thing.

so what is your point again?

 

[CurveLight]

Never said I had evidence. Got anything else to troll about?

so you agree that ALL the evidence says that flight 93 crashed in pennsylvania. at least now we know your position.

Where did I say anything about 93? If we take away your ability to try and put words in others mouths your post rate will drop by at least 70%.

 

[Fizz]

Never said I had evidence. Got anything else to troll about?

so you agree that ALL the evidence says that flight 93 crashed in pennsylvania. at least now we know your position.

Where did I say anything about 93? If we take away your ability to try and put words in others mouths your post rate will drop by at least 70%.

try to follow the conversation. the post you were replying to was talking about evidence for the two missing aircraft, flight 77 and flight 93.

 

[CurveLight]

yes. there are radar records for everything except 8 minutes 13 seconds of the flight. that 8 minutes was someplace over Ohio, i believe. not enough time to make it to the ocean.

how do you explain all the 757 parts found at the pentagon and the flight data recorder and the dead bodies from flight 77 passengers?

Another prime example of not knowing info and trying to pass it off as fact. The real kicker here is the 9ECR says the exact opposite of your claim about "radar records." Have a gander:

"The failure to find a primary radar return for American 77 led us to investigate this issue further. Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56. But for 8 minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56 and 9:05, this primary radar information on American 77 was not displayed to controllers at Indianapolis Center.142 The reasons are technical, arising from the way the software processed radar information, as well as from poor primary radar coverage where American 77 was flying."


There are no "radar records" showing 77 was tracked 8 minutes after the hijack. It was a "radar reconstruction" done by the Commission. I also love how they avoid explaining why. It was "technical."

Pay close attention to the first sentence. The CR states point blank there was no primary radar return. No, it's not endemic to the 8 minutes and aside from their admission, the evidence is obvious. They would not have needed to do a "reconstruction" to see how long it did not show up on Indy's radar.

are you really this stupid or are you trying to be funny? i said for 8 minutes the flight wasnt tracked. the FAA said the same thing (which is where i got the info from). you say the same thing.

so what is your point again?

Rotfl! I anticipated you would ignore the facts. You are so fucking lame you bold PART of a sentence and ignore everything else. I even said "it's not endemic to the 8 minutes."

Look at the part you are ignoring:

"Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56"

"Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56"

Do you get what that means? If the RECONSTRUCTION was done AFTER 9/11 then there was not a live primary radar. Which reminds me, didn't I already suggest you pay close attention to the first sentence?

Your inability to comprehend simple things is so fucking predictable I can guess what you will ignore before you even do it. I still can't get over how you actually fucking edited a sentence midstream to defend your claim. It just shows you have little to no desire to even attempt being honest.

 

[CurveLight]

yes. there are radar records for everything except 8 minutes 13 seconds of the flight. that 8 minutes was someplace over Ohio, i believe. not enough time to make it to the ocean.

how do you explain all the 757 parts found at the pentagon and the flight data recorder and the dead bodies from flight 77 passengers?

Another prime example of not knowing info and trying to pass it off as fact. The real kicker here is the 9ECR says the exact opposite of your claim about "radar records." Have a gander:

"The failure to find a primary radar return for American 77 led us to investigate this issue further. Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56. But for 8 minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56 and 9:05, this primary radar information on American 77 was not displayed to controllers at Indianapolis Center.142 The reasons are technical, arising from the way the software processed radar information, as well as from poor primary radar coverage where American 77 was flying."


There are no "radar records" showing 77 was tracked 8 minutes after the hijack. It was a "radar reconstruction" done by the Commission. I also love how they avoid explaining why. It was "technical."

Pay close attention to the first sentence. The CR states point blank there was no primary radar return. No, it's not endemic to the 8 minutes and aside from their admission, the evidence is obvious. They would not have needed to do a "reconstruction" to see how long it did not show up on Indy's radar.

are you really this stupid or are you trying to be funny? i said for 8 minutes the flight wasnt tracked. the FAA said the same thing (which is where i got the info from). you say the same thing.

so what is your point again?

Rotfl! I anticipated you would ignore the facts. You are so fucking lame you bold PART of a sentence and ignore everything else. I even said "it's not endemic to the 8 minutes."

Look at the part you are ignoring:

"Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56"

"Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56"

Do you get what that means? If the RECONSTRUCTION was done AFTER 9/11 then there was not a live primary radar. Which reminds me, didn't I already suggest you pay close attention to the first sentence?

Your inability to comprehend simple things is so fucking predictable I can guess what you will ignore before you even do it. I still can't get over how you actually fucking edited a sentence midstream to defend your claim. It just shows you have little to no desire to even attempt being honest.

 

[Fizz]

Your inability to comprehend simple things is so fucking predictable I can guess what you will ignore before you even do it. I still can't get over how you actually fucking edited a sentence midstream to defend your claim. It just shows you have little to no desire to even attempt being honest.

and your point of all this is to prove that flight 77 was over the ocean or it wasnt?

 

[CurveLight]

so you agree that ALL the evidence says that flight 93 crashed in pennsylvania. at least now we know your position.

Where did I say anything about 93? If we take away your ability to try and put words in others mouths your post rate will drop by at least 70%.

try to follow the conversation. the post you were replying to was talking about evidence for the two missing aircraft, flight 77 and flight 93.

You are the last person to try and give advice about following a conversation and this is another reason why. I never said "ALL" the evidence says 93 crashed in the Penn field. It's not even worth trying to discuss the issue with people like you.

 

[Fizz]

You are the last person to try and give advice about following a conversation and this is another reason why. I never said "ALL" the evidence says 93 crashed in the Penn field. It's not even worth trying to discuss the issue with people like you.

you said you didnt have any evidence that it didnt. therefore, all the evidence says 93 crashed in the PA field.

 

[CurveLight]

Your inability to comprehend simple things is so fucking predictable I can guess what you will ignore before you even do it. I still can't get over how you actually fucking edited a sentence midstream to defend your claim. It just shows you have little to no desire to even attempt being honest.

and your point of all this is to prove that flight 77 was over the ocean or it wasnt?

Rotfl! I just got done saying you are the last person to give advice on conversation following, and you just proved why again. You claimed there are "radar records" showing 77 was tracked 8 minutes after the hijack and that is the claim I refuted. Don't even think about trying to hide behind Huffy's mention of the ocean. You first made the claim in response to my post saying 77 was not tracked for about a half hour. So my "point" was to again reveal how another OCTA goes around spewing assumptions as fact. It's just like the fact the hijackers were never identified by dna. Dishonest and desperate OCTAs
like yourself want to scream they did it by process of elimination. You fail to understand that is an admission the hijackers were never positively identified. The fbi had their dna so there is no legit reason why it was not done.

 

[Fizz]

You claimed there are "radar records" showing 77 was tracked 8 minutes after the hijack and that is the claim I refuted.

ahhhhhhh. ok. now i see why you are being a complete moron. you cant read what i wrote. that isnt what i said at all.

i said "there are radar records for everything except 8 minutes 13 seconds of the flight." i didnt say it was 8 minutes after the hijacking.

 

[CurveLight]

You are the last person to try and give advice about following a conversation and this is another reason why. I never said "ALL" the evidence says 93 crashed in the Penn field. It's not even worth trying to discuss the issue with people like you.

you said you didnt have any evidence that it didnt. therefore, all the evidence says 93 crashed in the PA field.

I'm not talking about 93 and yes I know the op mentions that and 77 but I'm only interested in 77 and again....

I DID NOT SAY ALL EVIDENCE CONFIRMS 93 CRASHED IN PENN.

You get that yet or do you want to try and put words in my mouth again? This is why you're nothing but a fucking troll and you don't give a fuck about what happened that day.

Did you ever explain why New York withheld all the testimonies? No. You never even attempted. Keep that in mind when you start lying and say I don't respond to your posts very often because I can't address your arguments. The good part about people like you lying is you have enough lying OCTA pals to make it acceptable.

 

[Fizz]

I'm not talking about 93 and yes I know the op mentions that and 77 but I'm only interested in 77 and again....

I DID NOT SAY ALL EVIDENCE CONFIRMS 93 CRASHED IN PENN.

You get that yet or do you want to try and put words in my mouth again? This is why you're nothing but a fucking troll and you don't give a fuck about what happened that day.

Did you ever explain why New York withheld all the testimonies? No. You never even attempted. Keep that in mind when you start lying and say I don't respond to your posts very often because I can't address your arguments. The good part about people like you lying is you have enough lying OCTA pals to make it acceptable.

i dont care about the new york testimonies right now as i dont see any importance in them yet. i'll get to it when i get to it. unlike yourself, i dont comment on things i dont know about.

of course you did not say all the evidence confirms 93 crashed in PA. yo uare too much of a chicken shit to actually express what your opinions are on it. what you did say was that you had no evidence it didnt.

now see if you can follow this.....

you were shown evidence 93 did crash in PA.
you claim you dont have evidence it didnt.
therefore.... ALL THE EVIDENCE CONFIRMS 93 CRASHED IN PA.

do you get it now or do you want me to type it again really slow for you.

 

[CurveLight]

You claimed there are "radar records" showing 77 was tracked 8 minutes after the hijack and that is the claim I refuted.

ahhhhhhh. ok. now i see why you are being a complete moron. you cant read what i wrote. that isnt what i said at all.

i said "there are radar records for everything except 8 minutes 13 seconds of the flight." i didnt say it was 8 minutes after the hijacking.

Not only do you edit the CR but you edit posts as well....anything to fit your agenda. Pay attention. If there are records for everything (by your claim I just proved false with info from the CR) except "8 minutes" what does that mean? It means 8 minutes after the hijacking is when the tracking started. You even fucking said it yourself! You said the only time that was missing was the first 8 minutes......so if the first 8 minutes are missing......that means the tracking started when? Wouldn't that be 8 minutes after the hijack?

But you still fucking ignored the CR does not support your claim! You still fucking ignored the report said they got the info for that claim via: RADAR RECONSTRUCTION AFTER 9/11!!!!!!!!!!! Go ahead and ignore it again. Then call me some more names because you sure as hell can't discuss the facts. You even go out of your way to ignore them.

 

[CurveLight]

I'm not talking about 93 and yes I know the op mentions that and 77 but I'm only interested in 77 and again....

I DID NOT SAY ALL EVIDENCE CONFIRMS 93 CRASHED IN PENN.

You get that yet or do you want to try and put words in my mouth again? This is why you're nothing but a fucking troll and you don't give a fuck about what happened that day.

Did you ever explain why New York withheld all the testimonies? No. You never even attempted. Keep that in mind when you start lying and say I don't respond to your posts very often because I can't address your arguments. The good part about people like you lying is you have enough lying OCTA pals to make it acceptable.

i dont care about the new york testimonies right now as i dont see any importance in them yet. i'll get to it when i get to it. unlike yourself, i dont comment on things i dont know about.

of course you did not say all the evidence confirms 93 crashed in PA. yo uare too much of a chicken shit to actually express what your opinions are on it. what you did say was that you had no evidence it didnt.

now see if you can follow this.....

you were shown evidence 93 did crash in PA.
you claim you dont have evidence it didnt.
therefore.... ALL THE EVIDENCE CONFIRMS 93 CRASHED IN PA.

do you get it now or do you want me to type it again really slow for you.

Hahahaha....what a fucking waste of time. See ya.

 

[Fizz]

Not only do you edit the CR but you edit posts as well....anything to fit your agenda. Pay attention. If there are records for everything (by your claim I just proved false with info from the CR) except "8 minutes" what does that mean? It means 8 minutes after the hijacking is when the tracking started. You even fucking said it yourself! You said the only time that was missing was the first 8 minutes......so if the first 8 minutes are missing......that means the tracking started when? Wouldn't that be 8 minutes after the hijack?

But you still fucking ignored the CR does not support your claim! You still fucking ignored the report said they got the info for that claim via: RADAR RECONSTRUCTION AFTER 9/11!!!!!!!!!!! Go ahead and ignore it again. Then call me some more names because you sure as hell can't discuss the facts. You even go out of your way to ignore them.

holy shit you are fucking dense. i did NOT say the 8 minutes there was no records was the first 8 minutes. you are completely fabricating that. i said everything was recorded except 8 minutes. i didnt say when that 8 minutes was at all except that i thought it was over ohio.

you get so hung up on getting the little shit wrong that you forget the whole point of the fucking post.

the point was that the flight could not have been shot down over the ocean because it never was over the ocean.

by the way, i have no idea what CR is. where i live "CR" is short for Comfort Room (toilet).

 

[CurveLight]

Not only do you edit the CR but you edit posts as well....anything to fit your agenda. Pay attention. If there are records for everything (by your claim I just proved false with info from the CR) except "8 minutes" what does that mean? It means 8 minutes after the hijacking is when the tracking started. You even fucking said it yourself! You said the only time that was missing was the first 8 minutes......so if the first 8 minutes are missing......that means the tracking started when? Wouldn't that be 8 minutes after the hijack?

But you still fucking ignored the CR does not support your claim! You still fucking ignored the report said they got the info for that claim via: RADAR RECONSTRUCTION AFTER 9/11!!!!!!!!!!! Go ahead and ignore it again. Then call me some more names because you sure as hell can't discuss the facts. You even go out of your way to ignore them.

holy shit you are fucking dense. i did NOT say the 8 minutes there was no records was the first 8 minutes. you are completely fabricating that. i said everything was recorded except 8 minutes. i didnt say when that 8 minutes was at all except that i thought it was over ohio.

you get so hung up on getting the little shit wrong that you forget the whole point of the fucking post.

the point was that the flight could not have been shot down over the ocean because it never was over the ocean.

by the way, i have no idea what CR is. where i live "CR" is short for Comfort Room (toilet).

Commission Report. That is where I got the paragraph showing it was a RADAR RECONSTRUCTION AFTER 9/11. You remember don't you? You quoted part of the sentence which stated the exact 8 minutes.....8:56-9:05. You first did that in post 84 of this thread. I'm not the one hung up on a silly detail. You're trying to obfuscate because once again you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. I quoted the Commission Report stating it derived the flight path of 77 from a RADAR RECONSTRUCTION AFTER 9/11. You claimed there were "radar records." Where are those? You have none which is why for the fourth or fifth time you completely ignored the fact your claim is bullshit.

Want some more evidence you are talking out of your ass? In the Jesse Ventura thread Candycorn claimed there was radar evidence of 77 and I responded by pointing out that was an assumption and not a fact and there was about a 35 minute window it was not seen on radar. Here was your rejection to that claim:

(Jesse ventura thread, Fizz, post 42, truncated for purpose

"it was not on radar for 8 minutes and 13 seconds, not 35 minutes. it was not recognized because the plane had turned off its transponder and radar equipment was no longer receiving primary returns for it. this does not mean it "disappeared" or was stealth, jackass. it means that the controllers..... who were looking for it along its flight path and didnt know it turned or was hijacked.... could not find it."


The primary radar is independent of the xponder. The xponder system works on the secondary radar system and not the primary. I also love how again you call other people childish names while you don't even know what you are talking about.

Will you again ignore the fact the CR contradicts your claim about "radar records?" Look at it one more time and let's see how much more you will embarrass yourself by ignoring the fact the CR used RADAR RECONSTRUCTION AFTER NINE-ELEVEN! Hahahaha...you're just another OCTA embarrassing the hell out of yourself because you are defending something you are not qualified to speak about.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Another prime example of not knowing info and trying to pass it off as fact. The real kicker here is the 9ECR says the exact opposite of your claim about "radar records." Have a gander:

"The failure to find a primary radar return for American 77 led us to investigate this issue further. Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56. But for 8 minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56 and 9:05, this primary radar information on American 77 was not displayed to controllers at Indianapolis Center.142 The reasons are technical, arising from the way the software processed radar information, as well as from poor primary radar coverage where American 77 was flying."


There are no "radar records" showing 77 was tracked 8 minutes after the hijack. It was a "radar reconstruction" done by the Commission. I also love how they avoid explaining why. It was "technical."

Pay close attention to the first sentence. The CR states point blank there was no primary radar return. No, it's not endemic to the 8 minutes and aside from their admission, the evidence is obvious. They would not have needed to do a "reconstruction" to see how long it did not show up on Indy's radar.

are you really this stupid or are you trying to be funny? i said for 8 minutes the flight wasnt tracked. the FAA said the same thing (which is where i got the info from). you say the same thing.

so what is your point again?

Rotfl! I anticipated you would ignore the facts. You are so fucking lame you bold PART of a sentence and ignore everything else. I even said "it's not endemic to the 8 minutes."

Look at the part you are ignoring:

"Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56"

"Radar reconstructions performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56"

Do you get what that means? If the RECONSTRUCTION was done AFTER 9/11 then there was not a live primary radar. Which reminds me, didn't I already suggest you pay close attention to the first sentence?

Your inability to comprehend simple things is so fucking predictable I can guess what you will ignore before you even do it. I still can't get over how you actually fucking edited a sentence midstream to defend your claim. It just shows you have little to no desire to even attempt being honest.

re·con·struct (rkn-strkt)
tr.v. re·con·struct·ed, re·con·struct·ing, re·con·structs
1. To construct again; rebuild.
2. To assemble or build again mentally; re-create: reconstructed the sequence of events from the evidence.
3. To cause to adopt a new attitude or outlook: a diehard traditionalist who could not be reconstructed.
recon·structi·ble adj.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
reconstruct [ˌriːkənˈstrʌkt]
vb (tr)
1. to construct or form again; rebuild to reconstruct a Greek vase from fragments
2. to form a picture of (a crime, past event, etc.) by piecing together evidence or acting out a version of what might have taken place

Can we understand from this that to reconstruct something it must have previously existed? Cannot REconstruct something that never was there.