I hope you're ready...healthscare in the UK

[bigrebnc1775]

Healthcare in the US is most certainly rationed today.

prove it.
Healthcare coverage and healthcare are two differant subjects

She can't prove it because it's a lie.

Pure and simple.

Now she'll come back with some crap about how it's not TECHNICALLY rationed, but is still effectively so because those who can't afford it blah blah blah blah.

Proving that not only is she a liar, she doesn't even understand the terms she throws around as if she's ever done anything but sit on her ass, throw back cheap wine and chain smoke.

I know exactly what you are talking about I have heard it before. Even if a person does not have healthcare coverage and does not have any money they can go to the emrgency room and recieve care and will not be turned away. there are laws that have prevented this from happening. My scond wife was in Virigina and had a miscarriage. I did not have healthcare coverage at the time nor did I have the money o cover the expience. but they did not turn her away thery took her and gave medical treatment to her. I set up payment to pay for the bill.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Obama already told us to give Grandma a pill instead of an operation.

 

[Madeline]

I'm very glad you had a good experience at the ER (though I am sorry to hear your wife had a miscarriage). But that is very certainly not everyone's experience. Healthcare that is not necessary to sustain life is generally denied the uninsured and often denied the underinsured.

 

[bucs90]

Glad you asked. The ability of medicine to provide care that extends life or enhances the quality of care exceeds our collective ability to pay.

How would you like to cope with this reality? Me, I'll take a few less hip replacements on 90+ year olds with dementia and a few more liver transplants on kids.

I guess you feel that a system which leaves the poor with nothing while the rich get cadillac care is superior?

Our system provided mandatory ER treatment for anyone that walks in. Even illegal aliens with a runny nose. And they pay nothing. Doctors recoup that lost money through higher costs. Sucks, but, no one wants to close the border either, so it's reality.

Our system provides Medicare and Medicaid. Poor people are eligible. They hardly get "nothing".

Our "poor" are obese also. Obesity would be welcome in 3rd world nations, as it is a sign of excess food. Obesity contributes to over 75% of the health problems our "poor" face. High BP, diabetes, heart disease, stroke, cancer, etc. Fix obesity, fix healthcare. But no one wants to get off their fat asses and workout.

If it was YOUR grandmother who needed a hip replacement, and they told her no because it's too expensive, how would you feel?

Even worse...if your grandmother or mother was able to PAY for a hip replacement surgery, and she was told she could not have one, how would you feel?

Of course Madeline would feel nothing because she is of the opinion that elderly people don't deserve any care at all.

Yep. And we should get used to the idea of letting our elderly just pass on without using up all that money that could be better spent.

And you know, once we are used to that, does a 25 year old with terminal cancer with only 2-3 years to live anyway REALLY need all that money we are pouring into him? I mean, that money could go to a lot of otherwise healthy people's care. He's 25, but with only a couple years left, he's sort of like an elderly person anyway.

Just think of the $$ we could put towards people with more curable conditions???

But, it's sad that these elderly folks and young but terminally ill people must suffer so much through their last bits of life. Maybe we could find a humane, but cost effective, way of escorting them through that. I think liberal icon George Bernard Shaw had a splendid idea, didn't he?

 

[bucs90]

I'm very glad you had a good experience at the ER (though I am sorry to hear your wife had a miscarriage). But that is very certainly not everyone's experience. Healthcare that is not necessary to sustain life is generally denied the uninsured and often denied the underinsured.

No it is not. They go to ER's. Illegal aliens have flooded ER's to get treatment for colds, runny noses, headaches, because they know ER's will treat them, life threatening or not. It's federal law they must stabilize all people coming in, and the staff just treats anyone now. Thats why costs are so high, because the UNINSURED are getting treatment anyway.

I bet 75% of those non-life threatening conditions would go away with a bit of exercise and less fat asses.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I'm very glad you had a good experience at the ER (though I am sorry to hear your wife had a miscarriage). But that is very certainly not everyone's experience. Healthcare that is not necessary to sustain life is generally denied the uninsured and often denied the underinsured.

Give me proof that someone has been denied healthcare in America?

 

[Madeline]

There is not a nation on this planet that can afford to deliver every form of medical advance to every patient who could possibly benefit from it. The US is no different...and the abyss between what medicine can do (in theory) and the public's ability to afford such care (in reality) is growing by leaps and bounds.

Anyone who does not think rationing is on its way is either very wealthy or badly informed.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

There is not a nation on this planet that can afford to deliver every form of medical advance to every patient who could possibly benefit from it. The US is no different...and the abyss between what medicine can do (in theory) and the public's ability to afford such care (in reality) is growing by leaps and bounds.

Anyone who does not think rationing is on its way is either very wealthy or badly informed.

PROOF not your opinion is in order. Do you have the proof, we know what your opinion is.

 

[American Horse]

Glad you asked. The ability of medicine to provide care that extends life or enhances the quality of care exceeds our collective ability to pay.

How would you like to cope with this reality? Me, I'll take a few less hip replacements on 90+ year olds with dementia and a few more liver transplants on kids.

I guess you feel that a system which leaves the poor with nothing while the rich get cadillac care is superior?

Ninety-year olds with Alzheimer's Syndrome. if that's what you mean by "dementia" are not getting hip replacements. That is not the alternative you equate for us. Those people, if they are so lucky and capable, are instead getting a "scooter" to enable them to get to the dining room of the nursing home the are being warehoused in until they pass away.

And young children are on the other end of that bell curve, and will not be found efficacious to provide expensive care to, when push comes to shove, and rationing becomes our reality. Right now, almost anyone can get help one way or another, the system can be subdued. That will not be the case when we all become just a statistic of bureaucrats.

 

[bucs90]

There is not a nation on this planet that can afford to deliver every form of medical advance to every patient who could possibly benefit from it. The US is no different...and the abyss between what medicine can do (in theory) and the public's ability to afford such care (in reality) is growing by leaps and bounds.

Anyone who does not think rationing is on its way is either very wealthy or badly informed.

You're looking at this problem as reactionary, not proactively.

If our poor would get off their asses, exercise, stop being fat bastards, and prevent much of the high blood pressure, stroke, heart disease, diabetes, etc, that strickens them, MUCH of their health trouble would go away. But that requires no alcohol, no smoking, and eating a smart diet. And no, it's not difficult to find fruit, veggies, etc in the ghetto. It's not there because the demand isn't there. But those things are actually quite cheap everywhere else.

If we stop treating illegals with no insurance, and get our fat bastards in shape, our health care crisis will vanish. Thats a fact.

 

[boedicca]

Glad you asked. The ability of medicine to provide care that extends life or enhances the quality of care exceeds our collective ability to pay.

How would you like to cope with this reality? Me, I'll take a few less hip replacements on 90+ year olds with dementia and a few more liver transplants on kids.

I guess you feel that a system which leaves the poor with nothing while the rich get cadillac care is superior?

Ninety-year olds with Alzheimer's Syndrome. if that's what you mean by "dementia" are not getting hip replacements. That is not the alternative you equate for us. Those people, if they are so lucky and capable, are instead getting a "scooter" to enable them to get to the dining room of the nursing home the are being warehoused in until they pass away.

And young children are on the other end of that bell curve, and will not be found efficacious to provide expensive care to, when push comes to shove, and rationing becomes our reality. Right now, almost anyone can get help one way or another, the system can be subdued. That will not be the case when we all become just a statistic of bureaucrats.

The elderly receiving less hip transplants won't suddenly make more donor livers available for those who need transplants.

Maddy is spewing nonsense.

 

[boedicca]

There is not a nation on this planet that can afford to deliver every form of medical advance to every patient who could possibly benefit from it. The US is no different...and the abyss between what medicine can do (in theory) and the public's ability to afford such care (in reality) is growing by leaps and bounds.

Anyone who does not think rationing is on its way is either very wealthy or badly informed.

You're looking at this problem as reactionary, not proactively.

If our poor would get off their asses, exercise, stop being fat bastards, and prevent much of the high blood pressure, stroke, heart disease, diabetes, etc, that strickens them, MUCH of their health trouble would go away. But that requires no alcohol, no smoking, and eating a smart diet. And no, it's not difficult to find fruit, veggies, etc in the ghetto. It's not there because the demand isn't there. But those things are actually quite cheap everywhere else.

If we stop treating illegals with no insurance, and get our fat bastards in shape, our health care crisis will vanish. Thats a fact.

If our government quit siphoning money out of the private sector and stifling job creation, perhaps the 17%+ who are un or under employed could find jobs and afford health care.

The problem is that income and wealth have been redistributed to an ever more expensive and unproductive government - which produces NOTHING.

 

[Political Junky]

No one has proposed that the US have a system like Great Britain.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

No one has proposed that the US have a system like Great Britain.

WHAT? LOL Where have you been.
David Berwick, an ideologue with such great admiration for Britain's National Health Service that he waxed poetic and said, "I am romantic about the National Health Service; I love it... All I need to do to rediscover the romance is to look at healthcare in my own country".
Just who is David Berwick?
head of the nation's Medicare and Medicaid programs

 

[Madeline]

I don't really think it matters what system is in place...even if Obamacare is repealed and we revert to what we have now. At some point, decisions (or the results of failures to make any) will be necessary. I believe they are now.

It is not uncommon these days to find people my age who seriously expect to live to be 90 or more. That was almost unheard of when I was young. Add to that the various and very expensive medical advances that have been made, like transplants, and the fact is IMO, we will have to ration care.

As repugnant as it may be to countenance denying care to enhance life to an elderly person (or whatever route we choose to go), in my view anything is better than merely denying care based soley on economic status.

 

[Samson]

I think we ought to do what the eskimo did and put everyone over fifty on an ice floe and let 'em die.

Hell, I could retire tomorrow......

 

[Cuyo]

Forcing people to hop onto a crappy medical plan which then refuses to pay for medical care is repugnant as well.

Things have to be paid for. Despite what the 1960s progressives say, the government doesn't OWE you anything. And if it decides it's going to be in the business of providing medical care, it better fucking do it.

Really? Think about it. We have some of the lowest income tax rates in the world, yet we bitch more than anyone. Why is that?

Other countries can see their tax benefits. Virtually the entire industrial world does not worry about finances when they get sick or injured. That's a big deal.

But what do we get for our tax dollars? Aircraft carriers, bombers, tanks and space lasers... GPS guided missiles... and military bases the world through.

But help people of modest means with their healthcare? Oh shit that's where we draw the line... Nah, we can't afford that...

Of course it won't. Medicare is the crappiest medical coverage in the nation.

I know some seniors who would profoundly disagree with that.

 

[Oscar Wao]

Why not get rid of what is known as the military-industrial complex, too?

 

[Epsilon Delta]

What a tremendously ironic thread...

What's happening in Britain is that the new right-wing government is basically dismantling the National Health Service (they call it 'decentralizing' it, I'd call it 'denationalizing').

In other words, the British government is doing what most of those who label themselves "conservatives" here would theoretically be completely in favor of if it were done to Medicare and Medicaid. They are moving in the opposite direction of government run health care. And this is the result.

Patients’ groups have described the measures as “astonishingly brutal”.

 

[Political Junky]

Forcing people to hop onto a crappy medical plan which then refuses to pay for medical care is repugnant as well.

Things have to be paid for. Despite what the 1960s progressives say, the government doesn't OWE you anything. And if it decides it's going to be in the business of providing medical care, it better fucking do it.

Really? Think about it. We have some of the lowest income tax rates in the world, yet we bitch more than anyone. Why is that?

Other countries can see their tax benefits. Virtually the entire industrial world does not worry about finances when they get sick or injured. That's a big deal.

But what do we get for our tax dollars? Aircraft carriers, bombers, tanks and space lasers... GPS guided missiles... and military bases the world through.

But help people of modest means with their healthcare? Oh shit that's where we draw the line... Nah, we can't afford that...

Of course it won't. Medicare is the crappiest medical coverage in the nation.

I know some seniors who would profoundly disagree with that.

Most seniors would miss Medicare. The GOP will do itself great harm by trying to dismantle it.